Master-Nala Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 However you come down on the companions, I think it is clear that this came about because the devs have refused to do real beta tests for the last two expansions. In their zeal not to spoil the story, they allow incredibly deleterious bugs and balance issues to propagate to the live servers. Then they spend the next several months fixing them. And for my part, I just don't understand why? Spoiling the story? What does it matter if the story is revealed in testing or on live? It's going to be revealed eventually. People who don't wish to test and also do not wish to have he story spoiled can easily avoid spoilers if they want. But I would gather that those same people would still prefer that the game worked when they got to play even if that meant having elements of the story spoiled. The companion issue is just the most recent problem the lack of testing caused. If that had been tested properly by the playerbase, you wouldn't have this outcry. Sure some unreasonable people would complain if they were nerfed before live, but that's what testings for. Those folks could be ignored. While I don't really have a problem with the nerf (I'm more annoyed that you nerfed the PvP daily/weekly), I think if you would just allow us to test this content in advance, it would be better for the game as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Because open beta tests don't provide them much feedback. They help with catching bugs and stress testing, but almost all players participating in a beta are just there for a sneak peak at the content and never provide any meaningful feedback. They can get the same results in a closed beta by inviting the players who provide them feedback. It does not appear those they invited this time around provided the feedback required in this situation, so they may need to change this in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Because open beta tests don't provide them much feedback. They help with catching bugs and stress testing, but almost all players participating in a beta are just there for a sneak peak at the content and never provide any meaningful feedback. They can get the same results in a closed beta by inviting the players who provide them feedback. It does not appear those they invited this time around provided the feedback required in this situation, so they may need to change this in the future. It didn't need to be an open beta. Just a wider beta test. In just about every other MMO I've played, long time players are invited to test, even if that included an NDA. Using the same small group of community leaders and raiders really isn't getting them anywhere....except dealing with a lot of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 It didn't need to be an open beta. Just a wider beta test. In just about every other MMO I've played, long time players are invited to test, even if that included an NDA. Using the same small group of community leaders and raiders really isn't getting them anywhere....except dealing with a lot of issues. As I know players that participated, they certainly did this. And a wide variety of skill levels and play styles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) As I know players that participated, they certainly did this. And a wide variety of skill levels and play styles as well. I have no evidence to refute what you're saying, but how 4.0 turned out speaks for itself IMO. Edited November 18, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I have no evidence to refute what you're saying, but how 4.0 turned out speaks for itself IMO. I'm just letting you know, there were people involved that aren't streamers, bloggers, or Dulfy. I agree that the massive change in companions alone means that pieces were missed, but it may also be that the feedback on companions wasn't taken into account until they saw the performance on live. Even in open betas we've seen them ignore some feedback that was eventually changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The problem with Beta testing updates to this game is not that Bioware isnt getting the right kind of feedback from the people they bring in to closed tests. The problem is that Bioware does absolutely NOTHING with that feedback. Remember that disastrous bug with Coratanni loot that caused so many problems? Players in the beta told Bioware about it months in advance of the release of 3.0. They knew. They knew all about it and they did nothing at all to correct it. And then they let it go on for months and months because they just dont care about the integrity of their game. Same thing here. Bioware 100% knew exactly how overpowered companions were well ahead of even the early access release date, and, like every other time they released a major patch, they did nothing about it. Why? Who the hell knows why they do the crap that they do anymore. Id guess its a combination of 'not giving a crap' and a general mission statement of "Lets see how far we can get with as little effort as possible because we have already all but sh*t-canned this game anyway." So stop trying to pin the blame on "lazy" or "selfish" testers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpickard Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 They could have had an extensive beta to test the class changes, the tuning of the releveled raids, the companion changes, and all of that stuff, but just NOT made the story accessible on the PTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 It has nothing to do with how many testers there were but with how much development time they had. There have been many cases in the past where there was plenty of feedback for something, or a bug was report weeks in advance but the devs just didn't have time to do something about it. I also think this whole issue is way overblown; the players in my guild have not noticed much of a difference with their companions, they can still run content just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 UGH! Just more feedback they'd have to ignore...not one thing would have been different if there were a beta test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Maybe there was nothing to prevent? Maybe it was all planned through: super strong companions for a month or so to make many players pay money in order to play again, then add the patch that was already prepared from the get-go and bring the companions to the level they intended them to be? The money came in. They did exactly the same thing with the slot machine. The money lasted until now. Now they needed a new income. When they got it, the nerf came. Maybe they are setting a threshold: As soon as we got x amount of dollars in, we will apply the patch. I would expect the next big ragestorm here in Autumn 2016. I think the money from now will last until then. Let's see what idea they come up with next year. And if you think this is just BS that I am writing here: maybe so. But it is my impression of BW now. And that says a lot about their B2C communication. A customer shouldn't get such an impression (whether it is true or not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted November 18, 2015 Author Share Posted November 18, 2015 Maybe there was nothing to prevent? Maybe it was all planned through: super strong companions for a month or so to make many players pay money in order to play again, then add the patch that was already prepared from the get-go and bring the companions to the level they intended them to be? The money came in. They did exactly the same thing with the slot machine. The money lasted until now. Now they needed a new income. When they got it, the nerf came. Maybe they are setting a threshold: As soon as we got x amount of dollars in, we will apply the patch. I would expect the next big ragestorm here in Autumn 2016. I think the money from now will last until then. Let's see what idea they come up with next year. And if you think this is just BS that I am writing here: maybe so. But it is my impression of BW now. And that says a lot about their B2C communication. A customer shouldn't get such an impression (whether it is true or not). Even if that's true regarding the companions, there were clear bugs that they let go live that I'm sure they probably wish they hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Maybe there was nothing to prevent? Maybe it was all planned through: super strong companions for a month or so to make many players pay money in order to play again, then add the patch that was already prepared from the get-go and bring the companions to the level they intended them to be? The money came in. They did exactly the same thing with the slot machine. The money lasted until now. Now they needed a new income. When they got it, the nerf came. Maybe they are setting a threshold: As soon as we got x amount of dollars in, we will apply the patch. I would expect the next big ragestorm here in Autumn 2016. I think the money from now will last until then. Let's see what idea they come up with next year. And if you think this is just BS that I am writing here: maybe so. But it is my impression of BW now. And that says a lot about their B2C communication. A customer shouldn't get such an impression (whether it is true or not). I think your tinfoil hat is cutting off the circulation there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakgrind Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I think your tinfoil hat is cutting off the circulation there Maybe he is wearing one, but you have to ask yourself how can something like this that has a huge impact on the game get a working as intending sign off only to be reversed shortly after this xpac released. After all they had enough time to test it before the game was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pchiman Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 They could have had an extensive beta to test the class changes, the tuning of the releveled raids, the companion changes, and all of that stuff, but just NOT made the story accessible on the PTS. Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkwords Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 (edited) All one developer had to do was run 1...that is ONE Starfortress to see what was up. I believe they did do those tests and decided on the companion carrot to lure new people in, old people back and the existing people to stay. it is the ol' Bait and Switch tactic we have seen over and over starting with the C-Slot machine. If you look at the timing, most people have recently paid their monthly subs so they think we are stuck while they rake it in for the month. Guess they don't give people credit for the smarts to call their bank to remove payment if they have been frauded. Edited November 18, 2015 by Darkwords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleysRule Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 I don't doubt they had beta testers, but probably not enough of them. Besides, plenty of bugs reported during closed beta before launch made it to live launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 More regular (or really with regards to companions, ANY prior to the day before the patch) communication would have gone a long way to helping this situation not become the firestorm it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 They could have had an extensive beta to test the class changes, the tuning of the releveled raids, the companion changes, and all of that stuff, but just NOT made the story accessible on the PTS. They did have a beta. They knew about all the bugs that were in the live release. They didnt change or fix anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beohbe Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 However you come down on the companions, I think it is clear that this came about because the devs have refused to do real beta tests for the last two expansions. In their zeal not to spoil the story, they allow incredibly deleterious bugs and balance issues to propagate to the live servers. Then they spend the next several months fixing them. And for my part, I just don't understand why? Spoiling the story? What does it matter if the story is revealed in testing or on live? It's going to be revealed eventually. People who don't wish to test and also do not wish to have he story spoiled can easily avoid spoilers if they want. But I would gather that those same people would still prefer that the game worked when they got to play even if that meant having elements of the story spoiled. The companion issue is just the most recent problem the lack of testing caused. If that had been tested properly by the playerbase, you wouldn't have this outcry. Sure some unreasonable people would complain if they were nerfed before live, but that's what testings for. Those folks could be ignored. While I don't really have a problem with the nerf (I'm more annoyed that you nerfed the PvP daily/weekly), I think if you would just allow us to test this content in advance, it would be better for the game as a whole. There is an interesting thread that got moved from gen discussion to the bug report forum about a certain companion weapon bug that might tie in to the current companion issue. How this bug got past Q&A/beta testing, and why it's an active bug even now, speaks volumes on the level of testing that occurs here. Like you, I don't have an issue with the companion nerf, but am left with a very sour taste over the lack of testing before letting content go live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyaise Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Maybe he is wearing one, but you have to ask yourself how can something like this that has a huge impact on the game get a working as intending sign off only to be reversed shortly after this xpac released. After all they had enough time to test it before the game was released. Asking the same question. Gathering companions and their escalation is a major part of this expansion. It beggars belief that they could have got it so wrong (in their eyes), to carry out a 70% reduction. That's not just minor tweaking by any stretch of the imagination and neither of the answers reflects well on them a) It was intentional to bring players back, then change it to slow people down and hope players would stay once they had committed time to this expansion or, and far more likely in my opinion, but equally disheartening: b) They don't really know what they are doing. No proper pre-testing of the companions at expansion launch, followed by a knee jerk numbers out of a hat reaction based on minority whining. a or b - they aren't going to win mmo company of the month with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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