Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[CombatLord]

I think there could have been a balance of some kind of balance like if they nerfed comps by the 75% then they should have buffed the players or or they could have just nerfed the comps by like 40% and buffed the mobs slightly to compensate.

They could have struck a middle ground instead of nuking it from orbit that all I am saying, yes I agree that 4.0 comps were a lot stronger then they should have been. but if they wanted a nerf they 40% or hell even 50%, but the 75% was a little too much and they did not try and balance it out by buffing the players slightly.

[Vember]

As I said in another post, and as someone who used to work in market research, that poll only represents people who are following this issue on the forums. You're talking about a percentage of a percentage of a percentage. You can't use that in any way to represent the player-base as a whole.

 

All polling is a percentage of a percentage. When they poll for presidential candidates, does everyone in the country vote? Of course not. They rely on demographics, which is what we have here.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Vember

[CombatLord]

As I said in another post, and as someone who used to work in market research, that poll only represents people who are following this issue on the forums. You're talking about a percentage of a percentage of a percentage. You can't use that in any way to represent the player-base as a whole.

 

And yes I do agree that internet polls are hardly accurate thats just a fact.

[StarkHelsing]

Well according to Eric's profile he hasn't been online today - unless i'm reading it wrong, so go figure. Of course he could be being a sneaky operative but that's a moot point.

 

I think most of us would settle down if there was a post going 'Hey, we've seen your 'feedback' and we're discussing it.' Instead we've got crap being posted on the twitter account. Thanks for the wallpaper I guess?

[Adaarye]

As I said in another post, and as someone who used to work in market research, that poll only represents people who are following this issue on the forums. You're talking about a percentage of a percentage of a percentage. You can't use that in any way to represent the player-base as a whole.

 

It's being announced in game at fleet, guilds, etc. I don't know how many servers, but the pole is being mentioned outside the forums.

[Draqsko]

Okay, seems pretty obvious that people don't like the nerf, so the question will now be will BioWare address it again or do they hope to sit this out and what until everybody not happy with it has left the game?

 

Remember the slot machine? remember when they rolled back the nerf on that?

 

Yeah, expect that here, at least you won't be disappointed and maybe they'll pleasantly surprise you. That's what I expect here, it's probably pointless to argue but I'm still going to make it known just how I feel for the next 3 months before my sub runs out.

 

If other people on this forum don't like that, too bad. I paid for my sub just like you did, I'm making my views known while I can.

[CombatLord]

Remember the slot machine? remember when they rolled back the nerf on that?

 

Yeah, expect that here, at least you won't be disappointed and maybe they'll pleasantly surprise you. That's what I expect here, it's probably pointless to argue but I'm still going to make it known just how I feel for the next 3 months before my sub runs out.

 

If other people on this forum don't like that, too bad. I paid for my sub just like you did, I'm making my views known while I can.

 

I {and I only can speak for me} would be happy if they rolled back the nerfs but only slightly so, not all the way back to 4.0 but maybe back to were it's a 40 or even 50% nerf instead of 75%. But like I said that's just my opinion.

[bo-zo]

I really fail to understand the need for a change this big.

 

Okay, so maybe companions were a bit overpowered in some cases. I can understand reducing them to slightly below an average player's healing output, for instance, so they don't become a necessity in flashpoints. But beyond that, they're not a part of competitive gameplay, and as long as they don't overshadow actual players, their power level is largely irrelevant to the game's balance as a whole.

 

For those of us who play SWTOR mostly solo (odd work hours, not enough time for grouping, KOTOR fans here for their fix, etc), the extent of this nerf is a kick in the balls. I came back for 4.0, loved the storyline, and loved the new companion system. I leveled my main to 65, then went back to some old, abandoned rerolls (and to create a couple new ones), intending to enjoy the new system with them as well. Bummer.

 

So I've unsubbed (like anyone cares, I know) and explicitly wrote down the reason in the neat little text field they made just for that. I hope they revert (at least partly) that change soon ; it's unlikely I'll wait for more than a couple weeks before moving on to some other game, and inertia will take its toll ...

 

EDIT : I realize some of you may find unsubbing over this matter a bit childish. The point is not to make a tantrum, however, but to state that making such ham-fisted changes and then totally ignoring hundreds (thousands?) of messages is *not* acceptable.

Edited November 19, 2015 by bo-zo

[Drudenfusz]

Remember the slot machine? remember when they rolled back the nerf on that?

Yes, I remember that, but I would say this time is different, the nerf on the slot machine was stupid but it was just one single item that many people don't even used. Companions are a part of the core experience of the game, and plenty of people are so unhappy with the nerf that they leave the game about it, this nerf is a real dealbreaker since it impacts so many aspects of the game.

 

Look, we had often enough people whining here about plenty of things, just a few weeks all the whining about level sync was all the rage, but this time it seems like it really exploded here. And partly is that the nerfed companions now also make the level sync more obvious, or that instead of addressing many issues that BioWare focus on to make the game better, they just sucked the fun out. I play since release (actually since early access back then) and never left, but right now I am really considering to leave, since this patch tells me more then everything they don't know what their priorities should be. I love the new story, but I still wait with my main character to get some issues fixed, but instead they make everything to make me not play this game anymore. And it is clear that I am not alone, this was far too much. They listed to the whiners who said the companions should be nerfed, and now it is clear there are far more people who what the companions to get buffed again.

[kmpat]

First, I am a casual player who have 12 total characters and don't interest in endgame raiding I only speak for myself and not claim to speak for any group of players.

 

I tested the change and didn't like it. I sill able to solo every Heroic that I want including Star Fortress, However I didn't feel any challenge, For me it just feel slower and tedious you just need to wait for defensive cooldown and rest every 3-4 pack of mob right here and there because Lana can't keep healing me fast enough and that it.

 

I used to finished 3-4 planetary heroic and 1 or 2 HM Star Fortress per character (2 per day) and log off for Witcher 3, MGS5, and Fallout 4. Because my playtime is limited per day I feel weekly heroic AKA daily doesn't worth my time doing it and unrewarding (Why I want to max influence with all of them?). I rather play those games rather play waiting time with cooldown and rest time, so I am not going to do any of Heroic anymore and will wait for all the chapters to release then pay 1 time sub to see the story and be done with it.

 

IMHO, Challenge already in HMFP, NMOP,and WZPVP you don't want and/or can't use companion in these area anyway. So for daily stuff you should make it fast and fun where you have to grind over and over and over.

[Draqsko]

Yes, I remember that, but I would say this time is different, the nerf on the slot machine was stupid but it was just one single item that many people don't even used. Companions are a part of the core experience of the game, and plenty of people are so unhappy with the nerf that they leave the game about it, this nerf is a real dealbreaker since it impacts so many aspects of the game.

 

Look, we had often enough people whining here about plenty of things, just a few weeks all the whining about level sync was all the rage, but this time it seems like it really exploded here. And partly is that the nerfed companions now also make the level sync more obvious, or that instead of addressing many issues that BioWare focus on to make the game better, they just sucked the fun out. I play since release (actually since early access back then) and never left, but right now I am really considering to leave, since this patch tells me more then everything they don't know what their priorities should be. I love the new story, but I still wait with my main character to get some issues fixed, but instead they make everything to make me not play this game anymore. And it is clear that I am not alone, this was far too much. They listed to the whiners who said the companions should be nerfed, and now it is clear there are far more people who what the companions to get buffed again.

 

It's not even the listening to the whiners part that makes people mad. It's the extent. I'm sure most people playing this game wouldn't be complaining if the nerf was HALF as much as it was. Make companions be HALF of a player, and I doubt there would be this kind of outrage. Sure you'll get some people who rage, everything in an MMO will have someone raging over it, no matter what you do.

 

It's the fact that from the launch of this game until now, you could have a reasonably effective replacement for a player with a geared companion. It wasn't god mode then, it won't be god mode now if they were the same power level they were in 3.0. But they aren't even that, they are half of what they were in 3.0.

 

People remember what their companions were like 6 weeks ago, they know they were not this weak. Here it is now, 5 levels higher and they are weaker than they ever were with respect to the player. Everyone arguing that the nerf is fine is turning a blind eye to that fact but your average Joe player definitely notices it and you can't lie and convince them when what they are seeing is vastly different than the way this game has been since it launched.

 

People believe their own eyes above all else, even if their eyes are deceiving them. Why do some people here think that they can just BS them into disbelieving what they are seeing in the game for themselves? As the old saying goes, if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, chances are it's probably a duck.

[jjoren]

I thought companions in 4.0 somewhat over powered. Yes, they could use a bit of a nerf, but not this much!

[gersonda]

Well this post has caught my attention, I am a long term star wars fan and have played both this and star wars galaxies since launch, and the negative back lash from this change reminds be of what happened just after the NGE hit. lots users left the game, not in response to the changes made but in the way they where implemented. the main culprit being the lack of community involvement and response from developers. bioware are in my opinion about to suffer the same mistakes. An MMO is not just like churning out one game then if it under performs or players don't like it move on to the next one it is a fluid experience and if the community don't like the changes you had better listen and engage or no more game=no cash coming in. even the mighty WOW has suffered from this on previous expansions.

 

the arrogance that the community would not respond offends me. the lack of testing and the ludicrous way this patch was applied with no discussion is in my opinion a joke. but hey EA have battle front now $$$$$. I wonder how much money lost would make a difference I am considering my options at the moment as I love the game

[Zarnak]

When the game becomes as tedious as working a 9-5 job because farmable weekly heroics are slower? No thanks. And for solo players that's about all the content you're getting out of this expansion at the moment after the story is over. Before the nerf? Heroics were over with in a flash. Now? Takes way too long for me to care, especially considering they expect you to do this repeatable trash across multiple characters if you're a solo player. So no thanks; I can just spend my time in a better game with a developer team that actually knows how to communicate and test their content. This patch is a clear example of BioWare's incompetence and simply echoes what people have been saying for years.

 

I completely agree with this post! Gallandaeus cound't be more right. I am really surprised because i didn't expect this from this game.. still have sub till the end of the month.. if they don't revise this wrong idea there will be a lot subscribers lost

[adaemeneten]

"Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone."

 

How about "no, they don't". I have Scorpio at around level 29 influence and try to use her as a healer. The heals are quite small, and after some indeterminate amount of time she just winds up sitting there doing nothing; no one's attacking her and my health just drains to zero. Healing is just broken, plain and simple.

 

As an aside, the companion and alliance influence is just a flat out grind. I have limited time to play and have several alts, and the thought of grinding companion and alliance influence on each of these alts just doesn't sound like fun at all.

[Bakgrind]

Just my 2 cents for this forum topic

 

SWTOR has always been a paid for single player/coop experience IMO that has some MMO features such as a GTN and a Fleet that serves as a hub where players can congregate that gives the illusion of being "massive" and of being part of a community . SWTOR's big selling point was story... period . I've played the game since beta and can honestly say that Heroics 2 could always be soloed in the vanilla game, with the release of KOTFE and now with patch 4.0.2.That's just the regular heroics excluding the KOTFE content which I have not tried since the nerf because I dont want to beat my head against the wall

 

Let's be honest even before the release of KOTFE the single player aspect of the game was in full swing with the long 12xp bonus. Who needs to group when you already out leveled the content, right ? And it continues today with the faster and more xp sytem in KOTFE. And now we have the new leveling system which isn't called 12xp but is still a faster way to level than the vanilla game. The new companion system by itself is not to blame since it was geared for that KOTFE where the game is a bit harder than vanilla. They just never bothered to adjust the level of difficulty to the core aspect of the game that was their leveling planets.They have leveled sync but they still place the player 2 levels above the content.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Bakgrind

[Zarnak]

Well this post has caught my attention, I am a long term star wars fan and have played both this and star wars galaxies since launch, and the negative back lash from this change reminds be of what happened just after the NGE hit. lots users left the game, not in response to the changes made but in the way they where implemented. the main culprit being the lack of community involvement and response from developers. bioware are in my opinion about to suffer the same mistakes. An MMO is not just like churning out one game then if it under performs or players don't like it move on to the next one it is a fluid experience and if the community don't like the changes you had better listen and engage or no more game=no cash coming in. even the mighty WOW has suffered from this on previous expansions.

 

the arrogance that the community would not respond offends me. the lack of testing and the ludicrous way this patch was applied with no discussion is in my opinion a joke. but hey EA have battle front now $$$$$. I wonder how much money lost would make a difference I am considering my options at the moment as I love the game

 

Gersonda they are not thinking about one thing! They WILL lose a lot of subs and their profit WILL be lesser.. But they are not thinking that MMOs are an evolving market.. when they realize that they did a mistake it will be too late because ppl will be playing another game and those who unsub wont rejoin the game.. Even with the new film wont really compensate for the reputation.. i really want and hope they reconsider this patch and next tuesday all players will be happy and playing otherwise i am like yiu gersonda

[LordArtemis]

Just a follow up comment.

 

I do think companions were OP in some situations prior to 4.0.2, and though bugs and underperformance mandated their power in some situations, in others it made content trivial that should not be IMO.

 

I also think that companions are now UP in some situations, especially with healing. The content trivialized by 4.0 is no longer trivial, but content intended to present low or medium challenges is now medium to hard in many situations, and in some situations impossible for the average player IMO.

 

This makes companions, in some roles and situations weaker than they were before 4.0, and that, IMO, is unacceptable.

 

I think that either an increase of max level for level sync by one level, or a boost to Influence/Presence effect and healing would remedy this problem.

[Kolbeinn]

There's a new poll

http://strawpoll.me/6044247/r

 

For every happy player about the nerf, there's 6 unhappy ones.

 

Doesn't take a genius to figure this isn't how you make good business and it's better to alienate 1 out of 7 players than the opposite.

 

Oh well.

[Dragonflies]

So there I was trying to level up my Jedi Shadow. I get to the Vivicar fight and my companion can not heal me past the trash mobs let alone a man who does one attack that is 90% of my health. But this is pulling there weight? I am at 50% health he is at 90 and all he did was heal himself. And this is "Working as intended?" So we had companions that actually did things and made the game playable.. to hours of frustration. And you want me to keep giving you my money when we have heard -nothing- from you?

[Kolbeinn]

Actually seeing the complete silence from Bioware I really wouldn't be surprised if this was planned to happen right before Battlefront was released and they were ordered to do the ostrich and wait for at least 3 weeks before fixing it.

[DarthDymond]

Players complain that BW doesn't listen to feedback. BW posts a request for feedback. Players complain about being asked to provide feedback.

 

Players complain BW isn't transparent enough. BW posts information on their game design intent - specifically the relative difficulties of the solo game content. People complain about BW even having target difficulty levels for content.

 

Obviously there are a lot of different players, and just because Person A wanted something doesn't mean Person B wants the same thing, but I swear it seems there are a lot of the same people doing the complaining no matter what they do.

Edited November 19, 2015 by DarthDymond

[StarMagus]

Players complain that BW doesn't listen to feedback. BW posts a request for feedback. Players complain about being asked to provide feedback.

 

Players complain BW isn't transparent enough. BW posts information on their game design intent - specifically the relative difficulties of the solo game content. People complain about BW even having target difficulty levels for content.

 

People are complaining that Bioware didn't ask for Feedback before a MASSIVE change in the power level of a key part of the game.

 

People are complaining that Bioware didn't use their test server for Feedback, but are instead using the live servers for testing feedback.

 

People were complaining that bioware didn't post their game design intent.

 

People are now complaining that they don't like the game design as stated by Bioware.

 

These are different issues.

[CarpeSangrea]

Healing companions are broken. A good part of the time now they just stop healing altogether, leaving me to die while they go make coffee.

[CelineMorgen]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8638050#edit8638050

 

Eric finally responded. It's laughable but this is the new "thread" to post in