Commando / Merc classes are utter sh*t for PvP

[Jherad]

4.3k was in Regs actually.

 

Screenshot. Because congrats, that person has blown away all prexisting records by 300+ dps. And is still 200+dps off most good PTs. Is this *you* or did you hear about this from your brother's coworker's daughter's friend's dog? Let's see a screenshot of YOUR highest DPS. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

 

1) So in Arenas as a Merc I should stay at 10m? I guess sorcs stay at 10m too.

 

I'd like to see what fantasy land you're playing in where PTs have trouble landing carbonize lol. New to arenas are you?

 

2) Stun break Heroic *might* have a meaning in Areanas based on group, but not that much in regs where heals on SC are more valuable.

Ah I see. Yeah, you ARE new to arenas.

 

4) What kind of math are needed to utilize the healing abilities of the spec? Med Prob is on tracer missile and alacrity is on supercharge *to use if is needed*. instant heal every 13s. 250- 300k heals is in regs.

 

Huh? You do realise that an instant proc of med probe requires you to CUT your DPS from railshot - and is STILL on the GCD right? I'm beginning to think you haven't even played merc, let along AP PT. Again, show me a match where you're putting out 300k heals and not sucking for DPS. I mean it happens all the time right? I can dig out screenshots RIGHT now of PTs doing high dps and 200k heals. I'll swap.

 

5) 4.0 offered enough gap abilities to range classes to make stun an AP a last resort. Before stunning an AP PT (while damaging)

- knock back

- punch root

- Rocket out

then stun | net | concussive, based on situation.

 

- Jet charge

- Carbonize

- Pull

- Extra speed on utilities

- Stun

- Derp two stun breaks derp.

 

Again, you're PLAYING these classes at any kind of reasonable standard? Either of them?

 

6) Which ones? Heals are on 13 - 20s, knock back 23s, root on punch 8s, +15 defense chance on supercharge 30s, instant 40% slow on TM.

Again, chaff/decoy is on exactly the same cooldown as your 30% defense on sonic blast. Of course sonic ALSO provides utility as a taunt.

 

 

 

8-10) So, every Arena match is confined in 10m yet you may use jet charge...as disengage? In regs is almost the same.

Rocket out is disengage, jet charge is 90% offensive.

As I already pointed out, jet charge can be used offensively OR defensively. It also does damage. It also interrupts. It also immobilizes. It can also traverse levels vertically. It has greater range. It's also on a shorter cooldown. Would you like it come with a kitchen sink installed too? Rocket out is easily prevented, has a longer cooldown, aims terribly, requires flat ground, only moves 20m etc etc etc.

 

 

The difference with AP is that its rotation is predicatble. Because there are no procs or RNG (and there is a glowing stack on your tray for EB) everyone knows what is coming. Try guessing what an arsenal might use, from 30m.

Aaaah now the ease of the AP rotation is a drawback too! Got it.

 

20s is required to setup a full Energy Burst. That is absolute in Arenas. There is no disengage in arenas for PT unless there are only stealths that self heal.

AGAIN as AP you can preload EL for a full energy burst almost immediately. I get you don't play AP, but if you're going to comment about it, you should learn it. You can OPEN with a full explosive fuel burst rotation.

 

At this point I'm really struggling to tell whether you just don't know what you're talking about, or are deliberately trolling.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jherad

[Aetideus]

Screenshot. Because congrats, that person has blown away all prexisting records by 300+ dps. And is still 200+dps off most good PTs. Is this *you* or did you hear about this from your brother's coworker's daughter's friend's dog? Let's see a screenshot of YOUR highest DPS. I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

 

 

 

I'd like to see what fantasy land you're playing in where PTs have trouble landing carbonize lol. New to arenas are you?

 

 

Ah I see. Yeah, you ARE new to arenas.

 

 

 

Huh? You do realise that an instant proc of med probe requires you to CUT your DPS from railshot - and is STILL on the GCD right? I'm beginning to think you haven't even played merc, let along AP PT. Again, show me a match where you're putting out 300k heals and not sucking for DPS. I mean it happens all the time right? I can dig out screenshots RIGHT now of PTs doing high dps and 200k heals. I'll swap.

 

 

 

- Jet charge

- Carbonize

- Pull

- Extra speed on utilities

- Stun

- Derp two stun breaks derp.

 

Again, you're PLAYING these classes at any kind of reasonable standard? Either of them?

 

Again, chaff/decoy is on exactly the same cooldown as your 30% defense on sonic blast. Of course sonic ALSO provides utility as a taunt.

 

 

 

As I already pointed out, jet charge can be used offensively OR defensively. It also does damage. It also interrupts. It also immobilizes. It can also traverse levels vertically. It has greater range. It's also on a shorter cooldown. Would you like it come with a kitchen sink installed too? Rocket out is easily prevented, has a longer cooldown, aims terribly, requires flat ground, only moves 20m etc etc etc.

 

 

Aaaah now the ease of the AP rotation is a drawback too! Got it.

 

AGAIN as AP you can preload EL for a full energy burst almost immediately. I get you don't play AP, but if you're going to comment about it, you should learn it. You can OPEN with a full explosive fuel burst rotation.

 

At this point I'm really struggling to tell whether you just don't know what you're talking about, or are deliberately trolling.

 

Actually it was brother's coworker's daughter's friend's dog. Name LarsonMerc. People in TRE and TOFN know about. Bites hard.

 

The world that I am 20m away after your *super* dcd and waving.

 

Ah I see you use a heroic for a 3m ability that you are going to use once in arena instead of heals that you might use twice.

 

Probably you are the noob merc. I wrote "if needed". Don't use it, die and you ll get more dps...

 

No need to answer about the list of PT abilities you listed. You do not even recognize the short dcds of arsenal just below to understand counter fight. FYI merc has 2 roots.

 

Man, seriously, how are you going to use Jet Charge in Arenas as a disengage measure as you say?? Do you understand disengage?

 

It is a major drawback. It is an advantage for noobs (...), but it is predictable. There is a stack icon in your tray FYI for EB.

 

Soooo....how many times are you going to preload in Arena? after start is 20s setup.

How unexpected is a PT with a preloaded EB...? Then TD -> RS -> sync TD & EB. Omg, did I guess?

 

Just trolling, keep preloading your EB

Edited November 19, 2015 by Aetideus

[Lalainnia]

O its sad when you actually have a person thinking AP powertechs are weaker then arsenal mercs:(.

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

O its sad when you actually have a person thinking AP powertechs are weaker then arsenal mercs:(.

 

Until he provides some sort of a hard proof (an unedited recording of his game/duels, for example) it can safely be assumed he's just bullsh*tting us here. Theorycrafters be amusing and all that:D

 

Name LarsonMerc. People in TRE know about

 

Sorry, who?

Edited November 19, 2015 by BenitsubasaChiyo

[Aetideus]

Sorry, who?

 

Larson(+alts) transfer from TOFN, BiJ.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Aetideus

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

Larson(+alts) transfer from TOFN, BiJ.

 

OOHHHH, clearly a big deal!

 

Anyway,

Until he provides some sort of a hard proof (an unedited recording of his game/duels, for example)

Pretty pls?

Edited November 19, 2015 by BenitsubasaChiyo

[Jherad]

O its sad when you actually have a person thinking AP powertechs are weaker then arsenal mercs:(.

 

Yeah, you've essentially got some random who doesn't even know the *basics* of either class particularly well just embarrassing himself.

 

I mean after failing on basic abilities, the guy then writes stuff like this, without a hint of embarrassment lol:

 

Man, seriously, how are you going to use Jet Charge in Arenas as a disengage measure as you say?? Do you understand disengage?

 

How seriously can you take someone who has no idea how to use a charge to an second enemy target as a disengage from your first? He's practically admitting right there, in writing, that he doesn't know how to PvP above 'roll face on keyboard'.

 

Then again... He does play PT tank.

[Aetideus]

OOHHHH, clearly a big deal!

 

Anyway,

 

Pretty pls?

 

Cya in Kali.

[denpic]

The damage output from gunnery is fine but the defensive play is horrible

If decoy was reworked to act like a sorc barrier but only absorbing all force and tech attacks for 10 sec this would make a huge difference.

[Jherad]

The damage output from gunnery is fine but the defensive play is horrible

If decoy was reworked to act like a sorc barrier but only absorbing all force and tech attacks for 10 sec this would make a huge difference.

 

I don't know about 10 seconds - that's a pretty long time. But certainly any fixed duration would be much more preferable in a group setting where currently, as I wrote earlier, it may last but a second.

 

Reworking rocket out would be a big help too. Make it usable while rooted, and take it off the GCD. People have also suggested giving it some small immunity when used like operative roll.

[CaptQuazar]

Reworking rocket out would be a big help too. Make it usable while rooted, and take it off the GCD. People have also suggested giving it some small immunity when used like operative roll.

 

It would also greatly benefit mercs/mandos if they changed it so that it launches you forward, not backward. Change the name from Propulsion Round/Rocket Out to Rocket Boots. It would be so much easier to use, and avoid obstacles. Everyone else gets to leap/charge forward, while we're stuck trying to jump backwards and not hit anything.

[ForceWelder]

I have lost track. Are people talking 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 or both?

 

Honestly, I don't think Mercs or Mandos have much place in 4 v 4. Their survivability is nil in a pug group without a healer and tank to carry them through an initial focus. But if the Merc / Mando can survive the initial focus, it is game over. Half of the opposing team has blown their CC and the Merc / Mando hasn't even used theirs yet.

 

In an 8 v 8 both classes have one job ... to kill. And when they are no longer the sole occupation of an entire opposing team, they can perform that job quite well. But this is not the class you want to use to handle a ball in huttball or single defend a node in one of the other node style matches. Your job is to dump a massive amount of continual DPS on a target and either kill it or make it flee.

[Fellow-Canadian]

I have lost track. Are people talking 4 v 4 or 8 v 8 or both?

 

Honestly, I don't think Mercs or Mandos have much place in 4 v 4. Their survivability is nil in a pug group without a healer and tank to carry them through an initial focus. But if the Merc / Mando can survive the initial focus, it is game over. Half of the opposing team has blown their CC and the Merc / Mando hasn't even used theirs yet.

 

In an 8 v 8 both classes have one job ... to kill. And when they are no longer the sole occupation of an entire opposing team, they can perform that job quite well. But this is not the class you want to use to handle a ball in huttball or single defend a node in one of the other node style matches. Your job is to dump a massive amount of continual DPS on a target and either kill it or make it flee.

 

 

^ pretty much nailed commandos in PVP.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Fellow-Canadian

[Karolinakracka]

I am one of the few ******* that will still q my Merc healer in solo q on Harb. If you want a skill tree that needs a buff it is Bodyguard. DCD's are horrible. AOE heals just cant keep up with dot pressure. I usually get about 3 games into solo ranked before I swap to my Corruption Sorc because Bodyguard Merc is unplayable in ranked PVP. If this other guy thinks that Merc's are just as good as AP PT, join a 4v4 with a merc in it. I promise you other DPS classes are calling you out as the first one to die everytime. I love playing my Merc but BW has left it behind and moved most of the other classes forward.

 

 

P.S.- PLS buff Bodyguard Merc's BW:csw_blaster:

[lironBD]

as many have said in this thread the survivability is mediocre at best.

my main is sorc healer and in pvp I can fend of entire enemy team for few moments and survive most 1vs1 tackles.

 

Lately I settled with arsenal merc as my new focused toon while I play swtor.

I love the BH story and companions (BH was my first toon on swtor) and the gameplay of arsenal is lot of fun.

 

But in pvp I noticed two things,

if I'm left alone for 3-5 seconds I can burn any player in moments with huge instant high damaging abilities.

in 1vs 1 I may survive with all DCD used.

if more then 1 player is focused on me I'll die horribly in moments.

[sartt]

im still laughing at the guy who thinks Power techs are weaker than mercs.

[Nightkin]

I mean no disrespect...well maybe a little, but listening to a PvP pro from TRE? Really?

Larsson used to play on TOFN wich has a much, much higher overall skill lvl among its pvp population and even there he was among the absolute top for dps, moving to a pve server where people in my experience can barely gear themselfs correctly and then getting good dps records is hardly shocking and nowhere near proof that merc as a class is good for PvP.

[SpiritGod]

I've been playing since vanilla and I can tell you that this game is all about force users now in PVP, Troopers have no "oh ****" button like everyone else with stealth, immune shields, or an absorb shield (one thats not laughable anyway). And the sad part is is that this class used to be awesome, but now we cant even do PVP anymore cause we always get focused every single game because people know this class sucks. Its gotten so bad that I've considered unsubscribing and just going back to WoW, Bioware needs to fix their balancing issues and if their not going to make troopers a class worthy to level then im done. RIP Troopers/Bounty Hunters

[Ghenghis-Khan]

mercs/commando's are good at pvp, i've seen loads of good players, stop complaining and learn the class

 

I agree, im always 4/1 kill death on my merc arsenal in pvp. Learn to play the job and set the right utility points.

[Gyronamics]

I agree, im always 4/1 kill death on my merc arsenal in pvp. Learn to play the job and set the right utility points.

 

PVP issues are about ranked games where the ONLY objective is to kill the other side.

[CaptQuazar]

I agree, im always 4/1 kill death on my merc arsenal in pvp. Learn to play the job and set the right utility points.

 

Outside of 1v1, or rolling with group support, Mercs/Mandos are little more than speed bumps regardless of what utilities are taken when they come under focus fire.

[Aetideus]

OOHHHH, clearly a big deal!

 

Anyway,

 

Pretty pls?

 

Name Larssonary legacy Larsson Big in Japan. Spoke to the guy yesterday. 4.3 dps I recorded. With IO which is better than Arsenal.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Aetideus

[pjaogg]

mercs/commando's are good at pvp, i've seen loads of good players, stop complaining and learn the class

 

True! I'm killing a lot of PT's/VG's, Sorcs/Sages, Sins/Shadows with my AS Commando... Even winning on one vs one... Yes... AS!!! Don't know what you're complaining off...

[Jherad]

Now that AP got its well deserved surge nerf, I don't really see that big of a balance problem between them any more.

 

Merc heals probably deserve the next focus.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Jherad

[Lhancelot]

Now that AP got its well deserved surge nerf, I don't really see that big of a balance problem between them any more.

 

Merc heals probably deserve the next focus.

 

I think AP/PT still has a slight edge over mercs in the DPS department but... DPS mercs are not awful now, they just really struggle with 4v4s without a lot of team support. It becomes a hindrance when the entire team has to focus on one objective though, to save the merc.

 

That's why I don't think they are even with PTs even at this point. An AP/PT can still remain quite mobile and has a lot more sturdy defensives to take the brunt of a hard focus whereas the merc does not.

 

As for healing mercs? Nearly the worst spec in the game right now to play IMO. I do not find any aspect of it fun, at all. Nothing.

 

The options in utilities force you to go into the strongest defensive ones just to put you on par with other classes that get the same type of defenses innately or as some say, "baked in".

 

If you want a mobile healer, merc is not the one because EVERY dps can run circles around a mobile specced merc.

 

The mobility utilities simply are too weak to give the merc any kind of survival edge in PVP, so energy shield buff etc. must be taken. For me this build sucks, plodding around while the entire team of the enemy is hanging on you, leaping on you, pounding you into jelly.

 

And, after all that? It doesn't matter how great of a player you are, your healing results will be 1/2 or 3/4 of what you would put out with one of the other two healers in HPS.

 

It's just ridiculous and sad at the same time. Yeah. I really wish they would take a look at "metrics" on the healing mercs, and do something about the ****** performance it boasts.