Creepiest Romance? (Spoilers, obviously)

[Cicgnar]

What's the context of this scene? I don't remember it, but there's a lot of story to try and remember.

 

Not sure at all, maybe like 30%, but I think it was on Balmorra's questline, when you confront the Jedi since they're basically starting a civil war on a, in theory, Empire planet while the Treaty still stands; and also funding a resistance movement. You call them on it, and their answer is almost literally "We're not here to argue, we're here to kill you" and... that's it

[Joachimthbear]

Not sure at all, maybe like 30%, but I think it was on Balmorra's questline, when you confront the Jedi since they're basically starting a civil war on a, in theory, Empire planet while the Treaty still stands; and also funding a resistance movement. You call them on it, and their answer is almost literally "We're not here to argue, we're here to kill you" and... that's it

Cool, thanks for the reply. I'll see if I can track it down.

[Shayddow]

[You could have been open and honest about your intentions from the start, contacted the Jedi masters directly, ]

 

Hmmm. I wonder how that would have gone.

"Hey you Jedi Masters? I need to borrow one of your Padawans for this really cool Sith Ritual I need to do where I eat a ghost."

Why do you need to eat a ghost?

"well, my master wants to kill me, and in true Sith fashion, I need to kill him first."

 

Do you REALLY expect the Jedi to say....

 

"Mmmkay, but have her back by 11pm and see that her brain and her soul are intact?"

[Joachimthbear]

[You could have been open and honest about your intentions from the start, contacted the Jedi masters directly, ]

 

Hmmm. I wonder how that would have gone.

"Hey you Jedi Masters? I need to borrow one of your Padawans for this really cool Sith Ritual I need to do where I eat a ghost."

Why do you need to eat a ghost?

"well, my master wants to kill me, and in true Sith fashion, I need to kill him first."

 

Do you REALLY expect the Jedi to say....

 

"Mmmkay, but have her back by 11pm and see that her brain and her soul are intact?"

No, I don't. They were probably never going to go along with it, and you believed you couldn't afford to leave empty-handed. That's why you end up killing them.

 

I accept that the Inquisitor is just doing what's necessary to survive. (Although you could at that moment defect to the Jedi and be safe from Thanaton immediately, but anyway.) But that doesn't make the Jedi the bad guys in this situation. There has to come a point when you ask whether a truly good person should be willing to murder innocents to save his/her own life.

[Chaloss]

No, I don't. They were probably never going to go along with it, and you believed you couldn't afford to leave empty-handed. That's why you end up killing them.

 

I accept that the Inquisitor is just doing what's necessary to survive. (Although you could at that moment defect to the Jedi and be safe from Thanaton immediately, but anyway.) But that doesn't make the Jedi the bad guys in this situation. There has to come a point when you ask whether a truly good person should be willing to murder innocents to save his/her own life.

 

I would argue you not making case so much about Jedi being correct, but about Inquisitor not being blameless.

 

EDIT:

 

So that we do not get fully out of topic, I would have to agree DS Jaesa potentially being worst so far I have seen especially if you go full out. Ashara does not come close to that even under worst conditions.

 

From what I read I kinda want to test out Nadia one as some seem to paint that really bad, but I am planning on making my JC female so somethings just not meant to be I guess.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Chaloss

[efffel]

The way I saw it and played it is the Inquisitor has a task to do and does it. The task doesn't include killing. Blame is out of place here, the Insuisitor at this point is pretty much master of his own destiny, has no authority over him, i.e. he makes the rules (following the game's scripts of course )

 

The choice of giving their lives over that matter was theirs, not mine

[Quething]

(Although you could at that moment defect to the Jedi and be safe from Thanaton immediately, but anyway.)

 

Lol, yes, it took me a long time to reconcile this, and also Ashara's later comment about "you could always join the Jedi, you know!" with my Assassin's LS "desperately wishes she had been able to become a Jedi" canon. (She didn't get along so well with Ashara at first, since Ashara basically had everything my assassin ever wanted in life and screwed around and threw it away instead of appreciating it.)

 

I realized that it does make sense, though, it's just not well articulated by the game. If you're the kind of inquisitor who wants to escape the Sith Empire and join the Jedi, you're almost certainly LS, probably with a bit of a heroic streak/habit of risking yourself to avoid harming others. You're also painfully aware that the Sith response to traitors and failures is "wipe out everything that person has ever touched," just like Thanaton is trying to do with you on account of Zash. You're also responsible for an entire cult on Nar Shadaa (which is readily available knowledge, if Pyron knows), a Deshade, a former Republic officer-turned-pirate, and whatever else is left of Zash's power base, including people like your Sith contact on Taris who probably have avoided Thanton's notice only because he's still busy dealing with you.

 

If you defect, what happens to all of them? If you're a light sider, you can't really have all those deaths on your conscience. You can tell Ashara "I thought the Jedi understood sacrifice," and she assumes you're talking about sacrificing your values in order to survive. But that's because Ashara doesn't understand Sith or the nature of the Empire at all. The LS Inquisitor has sacrificed far more than that, and for a reason even many Jedi couldn't live up to.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Quething

[Cicgnar]

Lol, yes, it took me a long time to reconcile this, and also Ashara's later comment about "you could always join the Jedi, you know!" with my Assassin's LS "desperately wishes she had been able to become a Jedi" canon. (She didn't get along so well with Ashara at first, since Ashara basically had everything my assassin ever wanted in life and screwed around and threw it away instead of appreciating it.)

 

I realized that it does make sense, though, it's just not well articulated by the game. If you're the kind of inquisitor who wants to escape the Sith Empire and join the Jedi, you're almost certainly LS, probably with a bit of a heroic streak/habit of risking yourself to avoid harming others. You're also painfully aware that the Sith response to traitors and failures is "wipe out everything that person has ever touched," just like Thanaton is trying to do with you on account of Zash. You're also responsible for an entire cult on Nar Shadaa (which is readily available knowledge, if Pyron knows), a Deshade, a former Republic officer-turned-pirate, and whatever else is left of Zash's power base, including people like your Sith contact on Taris who probably have avoided Thanton's notice only because he's still busy dealing with you.

 

If you defect, what happens to all of them? If you're a light sider, you can't really have all those deaths on your conscience. You can tell Ashara "I thought the Jedi understood sacrifice," and she assumes you're talking about sacrificing your values in order to survive. But that's because Ashara doesn't understand Sith or the nature of the Empire at all. The LS Inquisitor has sacrificed far more than that, and for a reason even many Jedi couldn't live up to.

 

Well, my LS Sorcerer has a different point of view. As far as her experience goes, she has seen that the Republic is just a bunch of bickering idiots with petty rivalries. FFS, at the beginning of the war, they outnumber the Empire 10-to-1 (It's even said in game!) and yet, they can't mount any decent defense for a long time. And even when they do, it is usually short-lived. The moment the Empire stops putting military pressure on them, internal conflicts soon erupt and the Empire is able just to sweep again through the divided defenders. The Jedi are just... hypocrites. I'd refer to my previous posts in this thread. My sorc has almost always tried to talk her way with Jedi, and has been answered with open violence, even more often than with mistrust. More so, the Sith are more open to defectors than the Jedi Order, or even the Republic is!

 

So, switching sides is nor intelligent nor an option. The Empire, on the other hand, get things done. Only thing dragging it down is the power plays among the ruling chaste, the Sith Order. And that happens mostly because the Sith Order are not living up their own code. Most Sith let the DS slave them, therefore, they're bound in chains and not free. For her, she's one of the few Sith living up to the code, so she's one of the few who should rule the Dark Council.

 

Therefore, she remains imperial and slowly but surely gains power, influence and means to one day, purge everyone slowing down the Empire from the chain of command. That's her mindset, at least. And before anyone puts the argument that the Empire can't win... Just take into account that the Empire symbol is the one used by the Republic, even before Palpatine's rise, in the movies.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Cicgnar

[efffel]

My characters don't see the difference between republic and empire especially after seeing Belsavis. They forge their own paths

[Joachimthbear]

If you defect, what happens to all of them? If you're a light sider, you can't really have all those deaths on your conscience. You can tell Ashara "I thought the Jedi understood sacrifice," and she assumes you're talking about sacrificing your values in order to survive. But that's because Ashara doesn't understand Sith or the nature of the Empire at all. The LS Inquisitor has sacrificed far more than that, and for a reason even many Jedi couldn't live up to.

That's a good case, well put. I don't necessarily agree entirely but I can certainly respect it.

 

And because this is not the place for me to keep going on about this I will now stop derailing the thread.

[SithKoriandr]

If you defect, what happens to all of them? If you're a light sider, you can't really have all those deaths on your conscience. You can tell Ashara "I thought the Jedi understood sacrifice," and she assumes you're talking about sacrificing your values in order to survive. But that's because Ashara doesn't understand Sith or the nature of the Empire at all. The LS Inquisitor has sacrificed far more than that, and for a reason even many Jedi couldn't live up to.

 

They either leave or come with you.

 

At that point, you have two companions, Khem who is forced to stay with you, no matter what you do and Revel who I'm sure the Sith could have kept safe even if she defected to the Jedi. Though, I imagine Revel would have took off and Khem would have been a constant nag.

[Ghisallo]

Nadia, because no matter what she saids, in her voice it always sounds...creepy. Plus that convo where she wants to prove her love by sleeping with you, if the right dialogue options are picked, is rather disturbingly manipulative. I always feel like my Councilor is taking advantage of a clueless child. *Shivers*

 

Forget the dialogue... You are are her teacher. In HS these guys get arrested, in College fired, because it is an inherently unequal relationship. I did everything I could not to marry her without being a complete *** hat. I even took the "nice but not 'will you marry me'" option at the end ...still got all the "we are getting married emails."

 

I actually felt dirty. After that, indirectly the whole Vette vs Jeasa thing. If you go with Vette, Jaesa basically gets mad and threatens to kill you all BUT if you really read the dialogue you see you turned her into a psychotic who gets homicidal because you and Vette turned down a threesome!?!? Holy crap!

[StarMagus]

Forget the dialogue... You are are her teacher. In HS these guys get arrested, in College fired, because it is an inherently unequal relationship. I did everything I could not to marry her without being a complete *** hat. I even took the "nice but not 'will you marry me'" option at the end ...still got all the "we are getting married emails."

]

 

Not all relationships have to be between equals. Also consider by lore you guys are in the same age bracket, it would be more like a college JR ((she's 21 by lore)) falling for the Grad Student Teacher's Aid or even a Grad Student that was teaching their class. Depending on the college you go to that may or may not get you fired. However, it's certainly less creepy than the 40 year old HS teacher who decides to sleep with his 16 year old student.

 

In fact considering her age, and the fact that you are dragging her into warzone after warzone it seems really odd to me now to say "Hey, it's totes cool for you to go to the front line of an intergalactic war, where I'll happily have you help me cut down hordes of bad guys, but if you think for a second that you're actually mature enough to decide who you love and want to have sex with.. you have another thing coming!"

 

Add on: I was wrong, she's not 21, she's 22. 3 years older than Mako, Older than Kira, Vette, Jaesa, Ashara, and Risha.

Edited November 29, 2015 by StarMagus

[SithKoriandr]

]

 

Not all relationships have to be between equals. Also consider by lore you guys are in the same age bracket, it would be more like a college JR ((she's 21 by lore)) falling for the Grad Student Teacher's Aid or even a Grad Student that was teaching their class. Depending on the college you go to that may or may not get you fired. However, it's certainly less creepy than the 40 year old HS teacher who decides to sleep with his 16 year old student.

 

In fact considering her age, and the fact that you are dragging her into warzone after warzone it seems really odd to me now to say "Hey, it's totes cool for you to go to the front line of an intergalactic war, where I'll happily have you help me cut down hordes of bad guys, but if you think for a second that you're actually mature enough to decide who you love and want to have sex with.. you have another thing coming!"

 

Add on: I was wrong, she's not 21, she's 22. 3 years older than Mako, Older than Kira, Vette, Jaesa, Ashara, and Risha.

 

Exactly. The Consular may be the Master, but they are the same age.

 

If it's just a matter of being Master/Padawan, then Knight/Kira would be creepy and most wouldn't say it is either.

 

Though, if one thinks their Consular is incredibly older, then it quite possibly could be. But story wise, they're the same age.

[StarMagus]

That was my problem, the first time I ran the JC story I made my guy in his early 30's and while that fits most parts of the story it makes their relationship less cool. Although 30 /2 + 7 = 22 so... barely fine? But she seemed younger. She's just sheltered not younger. The 2nd play through I realized that she was much older than I thought she was and the JC by the story was much younger, in his early 20's just like she is.

[Limariko]

For how many Bioware games I've played over the years, I can't think of a one that doesn't have issues with it's romances to some degree, and any dark side/renegade choices are always done over the top cartoonishly evil/creepy. But as far as this game goes, I'd say the romance/relationship that does genuinely unnerve me, is the Smuggler and Corso Riggs.

 

I know some of these points have been brought up before in discussion threads about him with his jealousy whether you're romancing him or not, his insisting on treating women differently even when they're trying to kill you, his first onship conversation bringing up how wonderful it is to settle down before he's had any real getting to know you type dialogs with the Smuggler, and while those do set my teeth on edge, what really pushes me into the unnerved zone is he doesn't change these perspectives throughout the storyline.

 

Granted, with my first Smuggler I was going with the flirt with anything breathing route and his reactions to my character flirting with anyone else was bothering me enough that I deleted that character rather than have to keep dealing with him. My second and current Sith Pureblood Smuggler, I've been going the route of flirt with anything breathing except Corso with her eventual goal becoming head of the Space Mafia which likely won't sit well with him since he's not been thrilled with some of the choices she's made so far. I'm somewhere in Chapter 3 of her storyline and when she resumed her flirting with Darmas, Corso was still snitty about her one nighter with him. I would think after all the planet hopping we'd done by this point and all her flirting around he would've gotten used to it and moved on.

 

I don't know if his attitude changes during or after this chapter, but I find myself thinking of when I get to the Fallen Empire content, if I have the choice of not bringing Corso back to the crew, I'm taking it.

[SithKoriandr]

That was my problem, the first time I ran the JC story I made my guy in his early 30's and while that fits most parts of the story it makes their relationship less cool. Although 30 /2 + 7 = 22 so... barely fine? But she seemed younger. She's just sheltered not younger. The 2nd play through I realized that she was much older than I thought she was and the JC by the story was much younger, in his early 20's just like she is.

 

Isn't it +5 not +7?

 

That said, yes, same age is how the story plays it out (with a year or two between them at most).

[Eanelinea]

I also think that the agent is so used to being observed in everything she does (like the guy on Nar Shadda-if you do the deed with him, Watcher X is watching the entire time and comments on it) that it's one of those, "Meh. Must be Tuesday." Also, I doubt the Killiks themselves are all that interested in watching it because that's not how they mate. They're happy that their Dawn Herald is happy and that's about it. The other joiners might take a bit more interest, but probably not much, especially if it's a regular occurrence.

 

ETA: As for "sending the dogs out of the room" he has the ability to do that, as his FTB scene showed, but he mentions that he can't do it for very long or very often because it will be fatal to him.

 

Yeah, I always head canon Vector sending his buddies out of the room ONLY for special occasions, like HER birthday, their wedding anniversary, a life day present. My female agent doesn't care if he's joined or not during their FTB times, but she married him because she loved HIM. Killiks or not. Yeah she told she doesn't like sharing, but that was a 'you're MY man' thing. She didn't even sleep with that Voss she had to marry.

 

Vector's whole romance arc is SO sweet and oh MAN his love letter you get after you wake up from being frozen. *cries*

[Eanelinea]

Sorry for the TL;DR. One of my favorite things to do is character studies, and as a writer this has become necessary to make my own characters realistic. This gets extended to other people's fictional characters that I find interesting. My apologies

 

Ooo, I want you as the official character study person for all the companions. Pfft, do it for mine too! I loved your interpretation. Very nice!!

[Eanelinea]

]

 

Not all relationships have to be between equals. Also consider by lore you guys are in the same age bracket, it would be more like a college JR ((she's 21 by lore)) falling for the Grad Student Teacher's Aid or even a Grad Student that was teaching their class. Depending on the college you go to that may or may not get you fired. However, it's certainly less creepy than the 40 year old HS teacher who decides to sleep with his 16 year old student.

 

In fact considering her age, and the fact that you are dragging her into warzone after warzone it seems really odd to me now to say "Hey, it's totes cool for you to go to the front line of an intergalactic war, where I'll happily have you help me cut down hordes of bad guys, but if you think for a second that you're actually mature enough to decide who you love and want to have sex with.. you have another thing coming!"

 

Add on: I was wrong, she's not 21, she's 22. 3 years older than Mako, Older than Kira, Vette, Jaesa, Ashara, and Risha.

 

Yeah, I've noticed people will try to make their characters late 30s/early 40s, but when we set foot on Ord Mantell, Hutta, Korriban or Tython, the youngest we are is about 17 and the oldest MAYBE 21. We're very young, naive and fresh out of high school/junior college. No matter how old we may make our character look, they're very young.

[StarMagus]

Isn't it +5 not +7?

 

That said, yes, same age is how the story plays it out (with a year or two between them at most).

 

Pretty sure it's +7. 20/2 + 5 = 15. While 20/2 + 7 = 17. Which seems better.

[VitalityPrime]

I have seen Kira romance from videos and gone pals with her with my female knight and I honestly thinks she works better as your backup Jedi and apprentice without romance for males as well if played lightiside. If she is romanced by dark side Knight it again feels a bit like manipulation. If she is romanced by light side knight it feels a bit strange, a bit like quilts love. They are rather equals (of course Knight is a lot more powerful, but Kira holds her own) but it just feels strange for a Jedi to romance someone. That's why I never did with my Jedi's.

 

I think it would be strange for a romance not to happen.

 

Sure, there is the Jedi code...but these are two young Jedi, forced into action on their own because of the PC being so powerful, and Kira's proximity to everything going on. Then, throughout the story, you are the two most active Jedi in terms of taking action, and not meditating. Forced into battle after battle with each other, saving each other.

 

Jedi or not, the story just makes much more sense for them to end up together.

Edited December 2, 2015 by VitalityPrime

[MissyMI]

Corso. Holy freaking crap.

 

I started searching the forums today just to try and find a way to permanently end his romance. My smuggler flirted a couple times with him and now he's like her personal stalker. I've tried shutting down the romance multiples times, all with disapproval and he Just. Won't. Stop.

 

My latest conversation had a response option that sounded negative. When I picked it, Corso totally ignored it, then grabbed her and kissed her! No means no, you stupid NPC! Ugh.

 

After I finally found the convo option to avoid his creepy kiss, Corso said something about how when we're old and gray, he'll still be there when she's ready to come home or something. He's planning to stalk her for her entire life now?? Geez, I need to make it through to KotFE just to get away from this creepy jerk.

 

I've generally enjoyed the SWTOR romances, but I had no idea that if you tried to get out of one, things could get this bad. Yikes.

[GavinBail]

Most creepy from an Outside perspective: Sith Warrior / Jeasa hands down.

Creepiest to play through: Corso after you flirted with him once and he then spends the entire rest of the game trying to chase off every other male you even look at, felt like I had my own personal stalker.

[SithKoriandr]

Corso. Holy freaking crap.

 

I started searching the forums today just to try and find a way to permanently end his romance. My smuggler flirted a couple times with him and now he's like her personal stalker. I've tried shutting down the romance multiples times, all with disapproval and he Just. Won't. Stop.

 

My latest conversation had a response option that sounded negative. When I picked it, Corso totally ignored it, then grabbed her and kissed her! No means no, you stupid NPC! Ugh.

 

After I finally found the convo option to avoid his creepy kiss, Corso said something about how when we're old and gray, he'll still be there when she's ready to come home or something. He's planning to stalk her for her entire life now?? Geez, I need to make it through to KotFE just to get away from this creepy jerk.

 

I've generally enjoyed the SWTOR romances, but I had no idea that if you tried to get out of one, things could get this bad. Yikes.

 

Isn't that the convo where you tell him you want someone more forward and takes what they want and then he does just that and your character is happy with it?

 

Because that's the scene it sounds like, and thusly I wouldn't say that makes him creepy. Not that I'm a fan of his, but then again he was only made the female LI because they didn't have another option for the female smuggler. He was meant to be the male smugglers wing man, nothing more.