Creepiest Romance? (Spoilers, obviously)

[Kaisernick]

Nadia. It felt like she was stalking my guy like his number one fan. Any even vaguely nice response to her was taken as a passionate admission of undying love. He ended up married to her because anything short of being a complete *** furthered the "romance". I expect if he leaves her for Theron, she'll come after him with a hammer.

then you did it wrong, the very first time she showed affection for me i told her no and that was the end of it.

 

What i dont like is the SI androkis romance, im sure i told him i was merely using him yet he still sends me a letter saying he will keep searching for me. some big tough man you were guess he couldn't handle a friends with benefits.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Kaisernick

[Evasmi]

I didn't really have too much of a problem with the Nadia romance but I always chose the option to have her take it slow after her father is killed as opposed to jumping right into bed. She is definitely immature but I don't find it all that creepy when I take that route.

[SithKoriandr]

No, that's essentially correct. But I'd still rank Nadia and Quinn above her. As unnerving as her and the Inquisitor's meeting circumstances are, he doesn't try to coerce her into a romantic relationship and respects her wishes throughout it. And that's what I consider to be most important in a relationship.

 

The Warrior is pushy towards Quinn at best and outright sexually harassing him at worst (she can even order him to kiss her at one point), and to romance Nadia the Consular has to essentially take advantage of her when she's in an emotionally vulnerable state.

 

I like Quinn and Nadia, don't get me wrong, and I still romance them. I just ignore most of Quinn's flirts and play my Consular as very young. Otherwise the romances skeeve me out too much to go through.

 

Also:

 

 

 

The encyclopedia states Nadia's 22, which I just flat-out refuse to believe. There's no way that girl is older than Kira, much less Vette, Ashara, Mako and Torian.

 

You can't accept that someone can be naive and still be older than a teen? You need to get out more.

 

Out own characters are often made out to be very naive when it comes to the universe. Smuggler likes to say they've gotten around, but notice how they never seem to have been to these well known and popular planets.

 

If anything, Nadia is the character that's just as naive as our characters. Mako isn't so much naive as in the wrong line of work. She's all for the game then goes "Wait we can't kill him!" when the games all about killing people

[CrutchCricket]

He does it regardless of what you tell him to do. But do you not see how wrong that is? He's worried that if she develops free will, she won't love him anymore because his programming will be supplanted. He made her love him. Her "choice" afterward is hardly a sign that she loves him authentically even without that, considering he and his programming are the only thing she's ever known. If a dude kidnaps a kid from his parents and raises him to unquestioningly obey and adore him with a bunch of manipulative grooming techniques, and then at 18 is like "hey you're free to go! You're old enough and smart enough to make your own choices now!" and the kid is like "I still love you Dad, I'll stay here," does that make it a totally okay relationship?

 

Like, good for him that he finally realized choice and autonomy are important things for thinking beings to have, but that does not in any way even begin to negate the previous decade or so of his behavior or the implications it has for Holiday now.

 

 

"Develops free will" implies she didn't have it before. Which would make your child analogy moot.

 

Also:

1. Tharan isn't worried she won't love him anymore, Holiday is.

2. You assume Tharan programmed Holiday to love him and she has no choice in the matter. But that's neither what is said, nor is it what installing the core will change.

 

Sentience isn't binary in the SW universe (even droids are considered to have a level of it) and Holiday is considered a sentient program. Installing the core will, in Tharan's words "increase her sentience by a factor of ten or more", and she'll overcome her remaining technical limitations. It won't give her free will though because she already has it.

 

As to the question of programmed love, her responses aren't evasion and the philosophical question can apply to any action or feeling an artificial intelligence can have. On what grounds do we accept or dismiss the thoughts and feelings of a created thing that is otherwise showing every sign of self-determination? Do we really know our own thoughts and feelings so well? How can we even define "regular" love, let alone programmed love?

 

I think what matters is Holiday is presented as a person, and Tharan is present as treating her as such. At the end of his arc installing the core is supposed to remove all doubt. That's good enough for me. We don't know if Holiday will fall out of love with Tharan but I for one hope this is not the case.

 

[SithKoriandr]

 

"Develops free will" implies she didn't have it before. Which would make your child analogy moot.

 

Also:

1. Tharan isn't worried she won't love him anymore, Holiday is.

2. You assume Tharan programmed Holiday to love him and she has no choice in the matter. But that's neither what is said, nor is it what installing the core will change.

 

Sentience isn't binary in the SW universe (even droids are considered to have a level of it) and Holiday is considered a sentient program. Installing the core will, in Tharan's words "increase her sentience by a factor of ten or more", and she'll overcome her remaining technical limitations. It won't give her free will though because she already has it.

 

As to the question of programmed love, her responses aren't evasion and the philosophical question can apply to any action or feeling an artificial intelligence can have. On what grounds do we accept or dismiss the thoughts and feelings of a created thing that is otherwise showing every sign of self-determination? Do we really know our own thoughts and feelings so well? How can we even define "regular" love, let alone programmed love?

 

I think what matters is Holiday is presented as a person, and Tharan is present as treating her as such. At the end of his arc installing the core is supposed to remove all doubt. That's good enough for me. We don't know if Holiday will fall out of love with Tharan but I for one hope this is not the case.

 

I wonder what Scorpio would think of Holiday. Holiday's chiiper personality wouldn't likely mesh well with Scorpio, but she'd be of equal sentience. Also, if you consider Scorpio sentient, Holiday would have to be as equal to her in that area.

[CrutchCricket]

I wonder what Scorpio would think of Holiday. Holiday's chiiper personality wouldn't likely mesh well with Scorpio, but she'd be of equal sentience. Also, if you consider Scorpio sentient, Holiday would have to be as equal to her in that area.

Probably weak for not seeking self-improvement and being actively subservient to an organic. After all SCORPIO even

 

 

disses an HK unit.

 

 

So you know you need to be hardcore to get on her good side. I think she'd only really get along with Mentor from the Directive 7 flashpoint. Unless it tried to assimilate her.

Edited November 19, 2015 by CrutchCricket

[SithKoriandr]

Probably weak for not seeking self-improvement and being actively subservient to an organic. After all SCORPIO even

 

 

disses an HK unit.

 

 

So you know you need to be hardcore to get on her good side. I think she'd only really get along with Mentor from the Directive 7 flashpoint. Unless it tried to assimilate her.

 

Yes, but she's dissing what is essentially a homicidal basic droid. Not one would generally consider sentient. Even if people get attached to their droids, so far there seem to be few who are like Holiday or Scorpio. Who seem to be sentient.

[SteveTheCynic]

After all SCORPIO even

 

 

disses an HK unit.

Nonsense. She

 

disses *all* HK units.

 

[CrutchCricket]

Yes, but she's dissing what is essentially a homicidal basic droid. Not one would generally consider sentient. Even if people get attached to their droids, so far there seem to be few who are like Holiday or Scorpio. Who seem to be sentient.

I disagree. In this case the HK in question seemed to be just as attached, in its own way.

 

Droids are an at odd place in terms of sentience. On the one hand the higher level ones are clearly accorded some level of it, though most people still think of them only as things. And how far a droid progresses towards full sentience is often determined by how long it's been since its' last memory wipe. T7 for example would be a clear candidate for it, being the R2 stand-in, despite no one really bringing it up.

 

So while Holiday and SCORPIO are very clearly placed in a class of their own and very open about their full sentience I don't think it's impossible for other droids to approach them, though few if any are quite there yet. And even between them, I think Holiday is the more special case. She was built with "exotech" stuff thought to originate from outside the galaxy we don't understand yet. SCORPIO on the other hand started out as a more typical droid system that evolved to what she is now, which took centuries. T7's been around for a while, maybe centuries as well, without a memory wipe so maybe he's on the path as well, though not as aggressively of course. And for a more antagonistic and off the beaten path example, I again suggest Mentor from Directive 7. As for the HKs:

 

 

47 being reprogrammed so many times probably takes him out of the running, though if his memory's intact maybe he's still developing. And since he's supposed to continue running until at least the prequel era he may well have developed full sentience later on.

51 has only been active a short time so probably not.

55 who knows? I don't think they say how long he's been active but he has a very different outlook from the others, even if his methods are similar.

 

 

By the way, if you're interested in more fully sentient droids, check out Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter and the Coruscant Knights trilogy. They feature a protocol droid I5-YQ that gained sentience because his partner kept upgrading him and treating him as an equal. He's basically a more normal, non-psychotic HK.

 

Nonsense. She

 

disses *all* HK units.

Ah, my mistake.

[AshlaBoga]

It's important to remember that you can torture Vette and then free her and start a romance.

 

So on my alt that eventually married Vette we had this conversation prior to me freeing her.

 

Vette: Okay, I can’t take this anymore. Look I throw myself on your mercy or whatever. Please, just please remove this collar.

 

Warrior: You must learn to accept your situation.

 

Vette: But I’m gonna die from this! Don’t you understand? *Sobs*

 

Warrior: Make your case, quickly.

 

Vette: What? I… okay, I know… I know I’ve been lippy but I’m not that strong. I can’t take living like this. I feel like I’m rotting from the inside. Like I can’t feel anything anymore that’s not this collar.

 

Warrior: You are weak.

 

Vette: I never knew evil was so petty until I met you.

 

Anyone else think that's not a good conversation for a future husband and wife to have?

[SteveTheCynic]

You're right that recruiting her is the Warrior's idea, I forget the exact details of things though. Doesn't Baras point you towards hunting down her parents, for example? I'm not sure. Either way, you were acting on Baras' orders to the extent that if you hadn't neutralised the threat Jaesa posed to Baras' intelligence network, Baras would probably have had you killed and sent another apprentice to finish the job.

 

Baras gives you ideas on how to get her attention, how to draw her out of her hidey-hole, and all that, yes.

 

(I've just done this. I was so pleased to be able to get it right, although I think I went a bit beyond what was strictly necessary in terms of malice and general malignancy.)

[CrutchCricket]

It's important to remember that you can torture Vette and then free her and start a romance.

 

So on my alt that eventually married Vette we had this conversation prior to me freeing her.

 

 

 

Anyone else think that's not a good conversation for a future husband and wife to have?

Not exactly. Here's my case:

 

I freed Vette fairly early. Got her affection in the 6k range. Also got Jaesa in the 6k range which means Vette already wants me to choose (I wanted to glitch both, only later found out that's nigh impossible if you free Vette and try to do both at the same time). Played around with Jaesa until she tried to make me choose. Left it alone because I still wanted to try to get both but didn't want to risk locking out Vette (which I guess tells you what my choice is if I have no alternatives).

 

Then 4.0 hit. Companion convos are no longer tied to affection. This glitched Vette into doing the rest of her quest (tracking her sister and mother) without coming back to the romance. I did them and now we're back at me choosing. The point is, since I heard you don't have to only play to companions' tune to get influence with them I was finally able to go full dark. Told Vette to get revenge. She did and felt sickened, I told her to savor it. She said something about not wanting to talk to me for a while. Or not wanting to talk about this ever, I can't remember. But she was thoroughly disgusted. Then next convo she says she's sticking around no matter what and a day later I get romance emails from her.

 

Obviously glitched, but what the f, lol?

Edited November 19, 2015 by CrutchCricket

[Phyreblade]

Vector.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really do like Vector as a character. I just can't imagine a romance with him, not ever. Mind you, I played through with an Imperial Agent who was a guy. So romance options were out. But there was a particular scene where my Agent was chatting with him, and Vector goes on to describe how (and I'm paraphrasing, here) "there are always tiny Killiks on/in him" so he's never alone.

 

And there's me, sitting in front of my computer screen thinking, "Oh heck no! No way! Shudder, gross! And they'd want my girl Agent to kiss him??! Gag! Ick!"

[Ceinwyn]

...

 

I feel horrible for poor Quinn. While I love him minus the stupid decision, I feel so bad as a person romancing him. Some of his responses are hilarious though. Also the affection gain for flirting is kinda weird. It does come off as rather abusive from the female side. It's cute though when he finally becomes comfortable and becomes a bit more assertive. (I think the grab, pull kiss is adorable). I also about died from the cuteness when

during the Rishi cutscene he calls you "My lov-, my lord." It's so casual the way the VA says the line. Warrior is his love, he just slips up and has to catch himself due to formality or whatever, but its really cute.

 

I can't believe I missed this - twice!!

[almostinsane]

I can't believe I missed this - twice!!

 

Vid, please?

[SithKoriandr]

I can't believe I missed this - twice!!

 

Me too! O.O I don't recall this and I was making sure to pay special attention to the convo's the second time through, trying to make sure I caught everything!

[Nefla]

Torian is 18 when you meet him, so is Vector.

 

I think it also just depends on rp character perspective to the player about their characters age. In my mind my BH is only about 21, she's young.

I thought Torian was 17 when you first meet him on DK and 18 when you recruit him? I had no idea Vector was a teenager, ***? How did he have experience in the diplomatic service, have a previous wedding engagement, become a joiner, become accustomed to that life, talk about his past like it was a long time ago in just one year? O_O He looks and sounds like he's much older too.

[SithKoriandr]

I thought Torian was 17 when you first meet him on DK and 18 when you recruit him? I had no idea Vector was a teenager, ***? How did he have experience in the diplomatic service, have a previous wedding engagement, become a joiner, become accustomed to that life, talk about his past like it was a long time ago in just one year? O_O He looks and sounds like he's much older too.

 

Torian is 18. Vector is older than 18. He's in his 20's.

[Venn_Dras]

I would have to wholeheartedly agree with you on that one. The female agent gets screwed over on the romance companion option, which is why I will not choose a single flirt option with Vector.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with you on that. I plan having on my Agent give romancing Theron a shot.

[Joachimthbear]

Torian is 18. Vector is older than 18. He's in his 20's.

According to this thread Vector is 26, which makes a lot more sense than 18.

 

I don't know if it's specified that those are their ages as of the start of act 1, or at the time the player first meets them, or if they're just permanently that age regardless of how many years have passed in story... which is in itself pretty unclear.

[EpsilonCentauri]

Vid, please?

 

Here

 

I remember reading in the forum that this scene was bugged and some players didn't get their romance acknowledged, just getting the normal no romance cutscene. That's why some people might have missed it.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Here

 

I remember reading in the forum that this scene was bugged and some players didn't get their romance acknowledged, just getting the normal no romance cutscene. That's why some people might have missed it.

 

Yeah there was a huge thread about it in the general section about some imp side toons did not have their imp romances acknowledged in the Rishi cutscene (this bug went on for months and months), just so so glad they appear to be fixed now. Just a shame I missed scenes like this on my SW playthrough. Thanks for the video

 

EDIT: Here the thread about how originally imp romances were not showing in the Rishi cutscene it had been an issue since LAST December that seems to have only just been fixed http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=783535

Edited November 20, 2015 by BlueShiftRecall

[StarMagus]

Dark sided Jaesa hands down.

First you stalk her and kill all her family and friends. Then you torture her teacher and when she shows up you first torment her psychologically and then you beat her up physically. She finally completly snaps under all that and becomes a broken insane husk of the person she used to be and is completely stripped of all humanity she once posessed.

And then, and only then , do you f*ck her.

Yikes.

Honestly it's really really disgusting.

 

But the final 2 letters she sends you are the best.

 

In one she wants RP that she's a helpless padawan who you've just slaughtered their master and you make her... submit.

 

In the other she tells you placed a tracker on you so she could catch you cheating on her and she could kill your lover... and she's upset you aren't cheating.

[OldVengeance]

She's not quite what I'd call upset. She's happy that you didn't cheat. She's not angry. It's more like part of her is disappointed that she doesn't get to be angry. Edited November 20, 2015 by OldVengeance

[StarMagus]

I got the feeling that she was really bummed she couldn't stab some girl who you cheated with in the heart with her lightsaber.