The state of Republic PVP on Red Eclipse and PVP in general

[Aetideus]

I had a few close matches and a few facerolls. To be honest, if you are a pug player, you will be facerolled by the same Imperial premades on the old Binger if you log your Imperial. So, might as well play the side you like. The outcome is the same. Find a group, or lose a lot.

 

Are you guys seriously saying that the Harbinger is particularly bad? Because I was not noticing much silliness in the regs till all the PvP servers arrived.

 

The overall experience is better though. Imp vs Imp > Imp vs Rep.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Aetideus

[DomiSotto]

(Shrug) I don' know. I just prefer to play the Republic when I am losing. If the only reason to play for the Empire is to increase the chance of winning, and that does not happen, that defeats the purpose, and you play the mirror you like less. If I do have an imperial character I like a lot for some reason (I like my operative more than my scoundrel), I'd play on him for a while. Maybe get to 75% loss to win ratio.

 

Yes, I get a winning streak on the Empire once in a while, but it does not last, and usually means a premade had a vacancy. So, it's not like it's earned.

 

Normally, I'd just drift back to the Republic and the 90-99% loss to win ratio. The difference in loss:win is just not that pronounced. Particularly once you accept losing as the way of life and don't let it get to you.

 

Do you guys see an actual significant improvement when you swap to the other side as a pug?

Edited November 16, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Ballroompirate]

 

2: Pub classes selection tends to be more varied when pvping than imps. And you are more likely to see a full range of classes in every warzone. Imps are more likely to stack certain classes. With balance being the **** way it is now, stacking 4 sorcs is perfectly viable. If balance were better, pvp might shift somewhat back to republic, but with the way it is now, the only thing left is for pubs to start stacking the favored classes.

 

.

 

That's actually a valid point and can be backed up by the leaderboards, which are plagued by Sorcs and PTs (although Sages look like they kept up with Sorc players this season).

 

It also doesn't surprise me since most imps roll fotm classes.

[JouerTue]

i went fully imp pvp after like 4 years, while i don't particularly like that 50% of matches are imp v. imp, those are a lot more balanced than any other match you can enter.

republic on TRE has only a few rep players left that are not pve casuals pressing the wz button by mistake.

[Geeorgedk]

I've been pvping Pub side on TRE since server merges, so about 2 years or so, and in the past the matches were more balanced. There were more pvp oriented guilds on Pub side and pvp was way more fun. Although still slightly in Imp favor. I can't actually think of a single pvp oriented guild on Rep side now, that is very active at least.

Nowadays I'm happy/lucky to win 2 out of 10 during the evening.

 

I could switch to an Imp alt and have more balanced matches but I chose Republic for a reason. It has become so frustrating that I've unsubbed. Pvp is the main thing I do in the game and losing the majority of the matches on the 3-4 nights I pvp just isn't fun.

 

I think another reason most good pvpers go Imp is the cooler animations and the appeal of the dark side.

Bit like Wow where for years Horde dominated pvp until they changed racials so Alliance would have an edge.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Geeorgedk

[kaya]

I dont think the range of classes for reps applies on TRE.

I'm kind of surprised if theres less than 5 guardians a match these days.

Guardians are great and all but ... not that many.

 

The level of competence of imp players is better.

Most of them are capable enough, they wont embarrass themselves (though the companion is changing that recently)

Reps tend to have more completely and utterly hopeless players.

Imps have more healers too (due in large part to more premades)

Edited November 17, 2015 by kaya

[Darthanimus]

So rep pvp has gone downhill, and here is the reason, to my thinking. About 18 months ago reps used to dominate in pvp on TRE, now they lose more often than not. A recent influx in imperial guilds has made the imperial side the go to place for pvp, sure they may have mirror alts on rep side, but playing and running guilds are a one sided affair, and you cant successfully do both and therefore have unbalanced pvp. Running guilds need full time attention. Pugging against premades is death, its the failure of swtor, TS and other 3rd party software make some guilds virtually indestructible, they achieve overpowered heals and dps, in an unfair way. Some people just ike to play alone, its not just an issue of making a guild and getting your own TS, cause guild recruitment is hugely difficult in swtor, especially pvp guild recruitment. Swtor pvp is run by a few guilds that use clandestine methods, and unfair advantages to win, exploits a plenty: for example, voidstar second room pvp guilds using TS ask to be pulled by sorc guildie back across to the other side, a well know exploit, and healers can respawn on the incorrect side making extending the bridge impossible. I could go on and on but i wont bore you, bottom line, TS killing swtor, premades and queue syncing killing swtor pvp, if these issues are ignored then you shall reap what you sow. newbies to swtor don't stand a chance in pvp so no new blood is entering competition stagnating pvp lengthening queues for ranked.

 

Solutions:

Add swtor TS to game as standard, so pugs can communicate like pvp guilds. Maybe a de-bolster for players in full ranked farming in pvp, or average a teams stats to the match the opp side, have a choice to select same geared opponents. If swtor pvp was made fair pvp snobbery would disappear, and it would be down to skill to play warzones, recruitment for guilds would be easier, and more newer guilds would appear increasing variation in pvp.

[TakoyaKii]

So rep pvp has gone downhill, and here is the reason, to my thinking. About 18 months ago reps used to dominate in pvp on TRE, now they lose more often than not. A recent influx in imperial guilds has made the imperial side the go to place for pvp, sure they may have mirror alts on rep side, but playing and running guilds are a one sided affair, and you cant successfully do both and therefore have unbalanced pvp. Running guilds need full time attention. Pugging against premades is death, its the failure of swtor, TS and other 3rd party software make some guilds virtually indestructible, they achieve overpowered heals and dps, in an unfair way. Some people just ike to play alone, its not just an issue of making a guild and getting your own TS, cause guild recruitment is hugely difficult in swtor, especially pvp guild recruitment. Swtor pvp is run by a few guilds that use clandestine methods, and unfair advantages to win, exploits a plenty: for example, voidstar second room pvp guilds using TS ask to be pulled by sorc guildie back across to the other side, a well know exploit, and healers can respawn on the incorrect side making extending the bridge impossible. I could go on and on but i wont bore you, bottom line, TS killing swtor, premades and queue syncing killing swtor pvp, if these issues are ignored then you shall reap what you sow. newbies to swtor don't stand a chance in pvp so no new blood is entering competition stagnating pvp lengthening queues for ranked.

 

Solutions:

Add swtor TS to game as standard, so pugs can communicate like pvp guilds. Maybe a de-bolster for players in full ranked farming in pvp, or average a teams stats to the match the opp side, have a choice to select same geared opponents. If swtor pvp was made fair pvp snobbery would disappear, and it would be down to skill to play warzones, recruitment for guilds would be easier, and more newer guilds would appear increasing variation in pvp.

 

That's so wrong in so many ways.

Unbalance has nothing to do with that.

Reps have less pvp guilds and the ones that are there don't run FOTM premades like imps do.

Imps average pug is 20% better then a rep one.

Rep have 2/3 pve players x match that are in full pve gear (quest for companion bioware dumb idea)

Wich makes a premade completly useless , you can't carry 3 pve guys in 216/220 gear.

As a pvper I totally don't understand the fun in playing imps atm, it's totally boring against the rep.

You simply win without even trying while on the other hand playing reps is a hell of a challenge (and fun even if you lose 8/10)

[AlrikFassbauer]

As a pvper I totally don't understand the fun in playing imps atm, it's totally boring against the rep.

You simply win without even trying while on the other hand playing reps is a hell of a challenge (and fun even if you lose 8/10)

 

There must be some fun for some people playing imps, because otherwise they wouldn't do it.

 

And, you don't play for fun, you play for the win.

[Darthanimus]

That's so wrong in so many ways.

Unbalance has nothing to do with that.

Reps have less pvp guilds and the ones that are there don't run FOTM premades like imps do.

Imps average pug is 20% better then a rep one.

Rep have 2/3 pve players x match that are in full pve gear (quest for companion bioware dumb idea)

Wich makes a premade completly useless , you can't carry 3 pve guys in 216/220 gear.

As a pvper I totally don't understand the fun in playing imps atm, it's totally boring against the rep.

You simply win without even trying while on the other hand playing reps is a hell of a challenge (and fun even if you lose 8/10)

 

unbalance refers to imp pvp guilds, using TS and premades, setting up and running a pvp is just too much work, swtor and the way its played makes life difficult for new pvp guilds to build themselves up ergo less guilds over time.

the pve mission for pvp is available for both sides not just reps,

there is a tendancy to go imp for wins cause of premades there, so net flow of players to imp side.

pvp guilds are difficult to run on both sides simultaneously there is a preference for imp side atm.

[teclado]

Do you guys see an actual significant improvement when you swap to the other side as a pug?

It seems like somewhere around a 50% win percentage imp side at 65 for me. Most games are very 1-sided, just depends on whose team you are on. One game I'll feel like a sheep in a slaughterhouse, the next I could certainly go afk and win. Others I'll still feel like a doomed sheep, but the butchers are too busy chasing numbers and we'll sneak in a cap or two and get the win. But that's the way it really feels: sheep or butcher. Not much in-between.

 

Pub side...uh actually I don't think I have a 65 pub yet. Below 65, it hasn't felt all bad. Just mostly bad. It's not dead, just mostly dead.

 

I'm getting to the point where I don't really care about which faction I'm playing. I just want a single player pool from which to form teams - no artificial divide that can make things really 1-sided more often than necessary. Yeah, cross-faction. I know that kills the imp v pub theme, but I don't really care about that anymore. The faction divide is just a mechanism for players to exploit, especially in ranked.

[snave]

So rep pvp has gone downhill, and here is the reason, to my thinking. About 18 months ago reps used to dominate in pvp on TRE, now they lose more often than not. A recent influx in imperial guilds has made the imperial side the go to place for pvp, sure they may have mirror alts on rep side, but playing and running guilds are a one sided affair, and you cant successfully do both and therefore have unbalanced pvp.

 

This isn't really true though is it. Reps have never "dominated" pvp on TRE, never. There are more solo ranked pops on rep side recently but is more of a cyclical problem than either side "dominating" the other. I'm also not sure what you mean by the recent influx of imp guilds, most pvpers are scattered over several guilds with only BiJ really having any significant level of cohesion. It's probably also worth pointing out here that going against a pre made doesn't mean you always lose. It certainly increases your chances of winning (assuming your group is decent) but there are PLENTY of terrible pre mades running on TRE.

 

 

Running guilds need full time attention. Pugging against premades is death, its the failure of swtor, TS and other 3rd party software make some guilds virtually indestructible, they achieve overpowered heals and dps, in an unfair way. Some people just ike to play alone, its not just an issue of making a guild and getting your own TS, cause guild recruitment is hugely difficult in swtor, especially pvp guild recruitment. Swtor pvp is run by a few guilds that use clandestine methods, and unfair advantages to win, exploits a plenty: for example, voidstar second room pvp guilds using TS ask to be pulled by sorc guildie back across to the other side, a well know exploit, and healers can respawn on the incorrect side making extending the bridge impossible.

 

Running guilds is indeed hard, that is correct but I fail to see how that's relevant to your point. You are basically asking for more pvp guilds then saying they're hard to manage and then saying pvp guild pre mades are killing the game.

 

With TS and 3rd party software, sure, voice comms helps a lot but it's not like it gives people an automatic win plus I think you're overestimating the amount of people putting serious coordination in to regs. If people are using exploits (the one you mentioned isn't really an exploit) then report them and capture evidence. For the most part the only "exploits" I am aware of are things like macros (still against TOS) and win trading / queue syncing and even those are debatable.

 

I could go on and on but i wont bore you, bottom line, TS killing swtor, premades and queue syncing killing swtor pvp, if these issues are ignored then you shall reap what you sow. newbies to swtor don't stand a chance in pvp so no new blood is entering competition stagnating pvp lengthening queues for ranked.

 

None of these things are really killing swtor pvp. Poor balance, poor incentives and a lack of variety is killing swtor pvp. A lack of pvp infrastructure is killing pvp, not premades, not TS (lolwat).

 

Solutions:

Add swtor TS to game as standard, so pugs can communicate like pvp guilds. Maybe a de-bolster for players in full ranked farming in pvp, or average a teams stats to the match the opp side, have a choice to select same geared opponents. If swtor pvp was made fair pvp snobbery would disappear, and it would be down to skill to play warzones, recruitment for guilds would be easier, and more newer guilds would appear increasing variation in pvp.

 

People can use Discord instead of TS if they want. It's free of charge and easy to set up, there is no need to incorporate voice comms in this game for pugs. It would be horrible. Aside from horrible class balance and FOTM stacking pvp is relatively fair, gear is easy to get. What the pvp community at large needs is a more invested player base that will help players get on their feet and help set up more pre mades for people to take part in and unfortunately that hasn't existed for a very long time.

[AlrikFassbauer]

But that's the way it really feels: sheep or butcher. Not much in-between.

 

Out found that out months ago :

 

"Farm or be farmed, there is no in-between". But people still don't believe me.

 

 

The faction divide is just a mechanism for players to exploit, especially in ranked.

 

And because of that, people want their PvP rewards to be Legacy bound, NOT character bound.

Because if it was character bound, they would be forced to play Republic side as well ... Which of course must not be ...

[Eastiano]

There's a simple solution to the problem here. Anyone complaining about the repside pvp, I'll openly invite anyone wanting a larger pool of players to my rep guild Ragequit. We are pretty much exclusively pvp although I haven't been able to access my main rep toon for nearly a week due to some bug (I have sent a ticket)

 

There, I fixed your game for you Bioware, you're welcome, now please fix my main...

[MusicRider]

Old rep strong pvp guilds have dismantled and many players that remained have formed/joined others. For example I know a few friends from my old guild that have joined/formed ragequit which consists of high quality players. Then I have noticed some really strong players from some guild with latin name. Dxun always had strong pvp players. Imp side has some good pvp guilds also, big in japan is one of them. I also noticed take a seat to be very strong with high quality players. These are just a few guilds that come to mind and I am sure there are others as I have been playing back in TRE for only the last couple of months again.

 

Bottom line TRE is fairly balanced faction-wise at the moment.

[Vashadan]

I dont think the range of classes for reps applies on TRE.

There will always be ppl who play anything but the current underdog. Hence why I rarely see mando/mercs or sniper/slingers...at least compared to everything else.

I'm kind of surprised if theres less than 5 guardians a match these days.

Guardians are great and all but ... not that many.

I have defo noticed more of a multitude of classes/specs on rep side, both in pve/pvp gear compared to imps. Those underdog classes/specs we all know about tend to come in utter disparity, either a player behind them being really good or another comp grinder who hugs any objective pylon the moment a match starts.

 

The level of competence of imp players is better. Somewhat, I would say this is random but if we are talking about server transfers..I would put my money on most ppl having gone imp on TRE rather than rep. This goes both ways, for PvE and PvP players.

Most of them are capable enough, they wont embarrass themselves (though the companion is changing that recently) Open World PvP is pointless in this game but you have a point.

Reps tend to have more completely and utterly hopeless players. Somewhat true, I defo see more reps going for the companion in their shiny 700 expertise gear...you can literally spit on them and they would die.

Imps have more healers too (due in large part to more premades)

 

The last part is something I have noticed to be absolutely true. It is so rare these days not to see at least 1 sorc healer, and I pug 99% of the time. On rep side ofc there are sage healers but the issue lately is that imps tend to have at least 2healers per match. This is not a QQ on and about healing but since sorc healing atm is op, having 2 or even 3 of them crosshealing puts the odds on the imp side in most wzs, since by recount most warzones are more about survival and control.

The trend atm for me is that I can get my imp daily done in half the time compared to my rep. This is 65 I am talking about, low and midbies are even more random but I guess things change.

I would not be suprised if another shift happens in favor of the reps on TRE but so far I enjoy the challenge of facing a good premade, albeit even if they are rare on imp side. Let us all hope ppl rather take up a challenge and change sides than be bored of the same rollover grind and become bored of PvP entirely....

[Darthanimus]

This isn't really true though is it. Reps have never "dominated" pvp on TRE, never. There are more solo ranked pops on rep side recently but is more of a cyclical problem than either side "dominating" the other. I'm also not sure what you mean by the recent influx of imp guilds, most pvpers are scattered over several guilds with only BiJ really having any significant level of cohesion. It's probably also worth pointing out here that going against a pre made doesn't mean you always lose. It certainly increases your chances of winning (assuming your group is decent) but there are PLENTY of terrible pre mades running on TRE.

 

 

 

 

Running guilds is indeed hard, that is correct but I fail to see how that's relevant to your point. You are basically asking for more pvp guilds then saying they're hard to manage and then saying pvp guild pre mades are killing the game.

 

With TS and 3rd party software, sure, voice comms helps a lot but it's not like it gives people an automatic win plus I think you're overestimating the amount of people putting serious coordination in to regs. If people are using exploits (the one you mentioned isn't really an exploit) then report them and capture evidence. For the most part the only "exploits" I am aware of are things like macros (still against TOS) and win trading / queue syncing and even those are debatable.

 

 

 

None of these things are really killing swtor pvp. Poor balance, poor incentives and a lack of variety is killing swtor pvp. A lack of pvp infrastructure is killing pvp, not premades, not TS (lolwat).

 

 

 

People can use Discord instead of TS if they want. It's free of charge and easy to set up, there is no need to incorporate voice comms in this game for pugs. It would be horrible. Aside from horrible class balance and FOTM stacking pvp is relatively fair, gear is easy to get. What the pvp community at large needs is a more invested player base that will help players get on their feet and help set up more pre mades for people to take part in and unfortunately that hasn't existed for a very long time.

 

Reps certainly did a lot better on TRE 18+ months ago, I remember getting globalled along with others in my pug group to overpowerd fotm reps from a few guilds that have since fallen from grace, I could name them but I think its best not to. I play a lot and have many alts, so am not a part time player.

 

As for more pvp guilds, I think due to the difficult nature in setting up a pvp guild, running it, the inherent snobbery on the established guilds part, plus the negative general chat to new guilds, it is hard indeed to set up a guild that can premade and have all the advantages of a large established pvp guild. I myself have been inundated by rude comments and slanderous remarks when building up a guild. So here is my point, established guilds, the kind with many pvpers in exemplar gear takes times to create, people just dont want to do it, there is a tendency and a trend for fewer bigger guilds because of the security and support it offers. Pugging will always be less successful than being in a guild, for instance a guild can queue sync a balanced pvp team of a tank or 2 a couple of healers and dps half ranged and half melee. Lets face it swtor gf for pvp is a bloody nuisance for matching balanced teams, and therein lays the problem. When you have a few guilds that have got every thing right, TS, best gear, premades, then pugs simply cant compete, add that to the relatively few pvp guilds out there (and even less recruting), and thats my point. it can fast become a runaway train. If you think that isn't the case the case then you are either a contrarian, confused, or stupid. You need to have a level playing field in pvp, and that isnt the case, the incestuous way some of the guilds recruit is odd indeed, what are they trying to hide? I have seen the many of the so called "best" pvpers on TRE pug with out their guilds and they do abysmally. So like i said having guilds and many of them is a good thing, this creates a level playing field, and advantages can be had by all. Back to my previous point, on the rep side there are less guilds and premades out there than there were, dont force me to mention names of the guilds that have had their hay day, the other guilds do a bit of everything or mostly ops, off the top of my head I can only think of a few good rep pvp guilds, while I certainly can think of more imperial guilds.

[AlrikFassbauer]

The trend atm for me is that I can get my imp daily done in half the time compared to my rep.

 

This is not new. Even before 3.0 , people reported being able to get their dailies done in their Operatives much faster than with their Scoundrels.

 

When you have a few guilds that have got every thing right, TS, best gear, premades, then pugs simply cant compete,

 

But they still get told "L2P".

Edited November 18, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Geeorgedk]

Someone earlier raised a good point, why do Imps prefer easy wins over Reps or continue to play Imp side? Simply because they prefer playing Imp side. That's just it.

If they wanted a challenge they'd play Rep. Now they might want a challenge, playing other Imps, but playing as a Rep, that's too much to ask.

Imp characters are percieved as more bad *** (that evil thing, the dark side) and most good pvpers are playing Imp, so it's hard to let go of that. The momentum is Imp side.

 

I asked a very good pvper that mostly plays Imp and streams it on Twitch, and he said that Imps have cooler attacks and queues are better on Imp side. Chicken and egg basically.

And I'd wager most Imps don't really care about the faction battle, they just want to pvp. If this continues Imps will be fighting Imps all evening and Rep side will be dead.

[Dabrixmgp]

In the beginning you state healers are OP at the end you state if you are a healer you will die within seconds of spawning.

 

 

both are entirely correct believe it or not. If Im on my Sorc against a Pub team then I never die cause they are so bad. If I am against another Imp team then they focus me the entire time making it very hard to heal anyone other than myself.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I asked a very good pvper that mostly plays Imp and streams it on Twitch, and he said that Imps have cooler attacks and queues are better on Imp side. Chicken and egg basically.

 

Which puts some source of the problem at Bioware : They were the ones who designed Imp side so that it is better looking.

 

But that's not something new. It has always been so, and Bioware made SWTOR to be an "Empire Side Game" in the first place. Everyone who is sensitive enough can see that they put creativity, ideas and energy into the Imperial side first and foremost. They wanted it to be so.

[Eastiano]

Whether the animations are cooler or not on one faction or the other is entirely subjective so that's irrelevant (I prefer rep ones mostly), as for queue times being shorter, this is true because most rep players are playing imp purely because of the amount of afk pve nodecampers in repside teams.

[-Healius-]

I play TRE republic and lets just say should I bother augmenting because lets be honest my team still gets wiped everytime and im having to always fight 2v1 3v1, might go back to TOFN but the op groups are poison on that server.