Priority Target is Eternity Vault - WTH?

[RikuvonDrake]

I definitely disagree, as a "hardcore" raider if you may say, with all the past achievements that comes with, I really couldn't care less if everyone on fleet runs around in the same gear as I do. Cause in the end it's not like you can walk into a Nightmare operation and expect your BiS gear to carry you though all mechanics and DPS requirements.

 

 

If people, casuals, roleplayers, flashpoint heroes as well as hardcore raiders, would just put less significance on loot and becoming BiS as fast as possible so they can stop caring about mechanics and instead learning mechanics in order for them to minimize their incoming damage and maximize their outputting damage, they would clear instances faster.

[DomiSotto]

I am just... I am happy with the way things are right now in the game, and I am not going to feel guilty about it.

 

It is incredibly open and welcoming. It is a joy now compared to every other iteration of it that I had been though in the past 2 years. I am literally out of anything to complain about.

 

I can start any game mode I wish, at any time, and find challenge at a certain point, in both PvE and PvP. Time investment in grind is gone. Unless you want it.

 

It's awesome.

[Lodinn]

Definitely not, even the world first progression guilds have said that the 3.0 raid content was scaled too difficult and I blame those progression guilds that were invited to the closed PTS and asked for scaling so challenging that SM become impossible for most groups and HM was tuned at NiM levels.

Let me remind you they yelled about class stacking on PTS and few other major issues as well, not to say they all (I think) admitted 3.0 was too hard because of no NiMs. That was the root of the problems anyway.

 

There can be a middle-ground, as we've seen with the DF/DP scaling which IMO was the most successful raiding tier.

It totally seems so, even tho I've missed it myself. Some 2.8 must've been a golden era of this game. Since then, BW goes on and missteps all the time, both in strategical way (like mono loot) and tactical one (like numbers scaling).

In 4.0, there was NO closed beta (or was there? From what I know no). And "balance" is just... Random.

 

I definitely disagree, as a "hardcore" raider if you may say, with all the past achievements that comes with, I really couldn't care less if everyone on fleet runs around in the same gear as I do. Cause in the end it's not like you can walk into a Nightmare operation and expect your BiS gear to carry you though all mechanics and DPS requirements.

GODDAMIT THANK YOU!

 

Fun fact: bit sub-par progression raiders moan about gear thousands times more than more hardcore ones.

All because I'd still prefer one of the 'select ones' dps in 192 over BiS average progression raider. For both they will be more useful to raid and very likely still do more dps.

Healer and tanking gear are far far less relevant from the "shiny" perspective.

The more complaining I hear the more it looks like wannabe-elitism :-p

 

If people, casuals, roleplayers, flashpoint heroes as well as hardcore raiders, would just put less significance on loot and becoming BiS as fast as possible so they can stop caring about mechanics and instead learning mechanics in order for them to minimize their incoming damage and maximize their outputting damage, they would clear instances faster.

Sorry to disappoint you, but it doesn't seem to work. I mean, it works, but only for a bit since those caring for gear seem to believe in BiS magic and those not caring for it as much... Well they will be happy.

 

I see another issue with stepping further into content. Earlier we had a simple system. Say I recruit a new member to a guild and wanna coach him. So I bring him to SM FP, HM FP, SM ops, lvl 55 HMs and so on. It was a huge deal for the whole community, you see. One could explain some stuff about gear ratings, enhancements and so on running different kinds of stuff. What do we say to newbies now?

- What does %OPS% drop on HM?

- 220 blahblah, you can find list of tokens on dulfy.

- Oh I see, thx. I'll take a look later. But what about %ANOTHER_OPS%?

- 224.

- Why?

- Because it's...

[5 minutes later]

- So %ANOTHER_OPS% is more difficult than %OPS%, right?

- No, exactly the opposite.

- Why do I do %OPS% then?

- ...

...

...

Err. For "fun"?

[another 5 minutes pass in awkward silence in guild chat]

- So what's the difference, do I get relic in both %OPS% and %OPS2%?

- Kinda.

- Gosh, it's sooo confusing!

and so on, and so on.

 

I mean... KotFE splash screen should be that Han Solo picture where he says "sorry for the mess".

 

There's too much confusion as of now for many people to be able to put gear to good work.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Lodinn

[Jerba]

In 4.0, there was NO closed beta (or was there? From what I know no).

Yes, there was a closed beta but only very few players were invited and most of them were solo players. Unlike for the 3.0 closed beta where, in addition to the solo players, they actually invited certain raiding guilds to test the fights and offer feedback. So for 4.0 there were very few players testing the group content and even if they found bugs, I imagine that the bugs in the story content were prioritized over raid bugs, and I understand that they would do this.

 

Fun fact: bit sub-par progression raiders moan about gear thousands times more than more hardcore ones.

All because I'd still prefer one of the 'select ones' dps in 192 over BiS average progression raider. For both they will be more useful to raid and very likely still do more dps.

Healer and tanking gear are far far less relevant from the "shiny" perspective.

The more complaining I hear the more it looks like wannabe-elitism :-p

To be honest, I am mostly a semi-progression raider but I always try to make the most of our limited raid times and play at the highest level possible. But I believe this mostly has to do with the fact that there are not many hardcore progression players left. Like when the Ziost boss dropped the 204 mainhand, I remember a lot of complaints from the hardcore guilds that their Revan HM loot was now meaningless. I guess there's a difference between gear from killing a new boss vs. from rekilling an existing boss.

But I do think that complaining is too strong of a word for this. I could have started the thread with "OMG BioWare why you use EV as Priority Target, please hotfix immediately!" but instead I mostly wanted to hear what other raiding guilds think of this because at least in my guild, everyone was surprised and felt sad that EV is the priority target. Because in the end, I don't expect anything to change on BioWare's side so there's not much point complaining.

 

Like someone wrote already, fortunately there is not a whole lot of difference between 220 and 224 gear, so it's not like it matters much anyway if you can't play your class. Looking into the future for the long term, I also think that the impact may not be as big as I initially feared. I have no problem if every two months, there will be a week where everyone has a chance to farm EV for 224 gear. Non-raiders don't have many raid-ready characters and won't be able to farm too much gear anyway, and they also have to be lucky and win a 224 piece. I would have wished that they waited with the easy-mode operations until next year, and only put the "hard" operations (DF/DP/Ra/ToS) in the Priority Targets for now. But it is already too late for that.

The main problem I see is that raiding guilds are now able to farm 224 gear much faster than expected. Before Tuesday came, I expected players to be BiS 224 a few months into the future. Now knowing that the easy operations are also in the queue, this time is reduced to a few weeks. We will see how many guilds stick around once they farmed gear on their mains - will they continue farming gear for their alts, will they continue raiding even if they no longer need gear from it, will we see more sale runs offered?

Edited November 14, 2015 by Jerba

[Braggalo]

Hey there,

 

due to laziness I won't bother to quote what I'm referring to, but instead grab a few points and give my 2 cents:

 

1) Was EV highlight a bad idea?

 

For Raiders and those who care about challenging content: Yes, for it dulls interest and motivation.

For those who want gear (which is the far majority): No, because they get what they want without having to pay a progress guild to wave them through

 

2) Is the fact, that Nim OPs drop HM gear an embarassment?

 

Indeeed, but progress raiders are far to few for BW to react fast, since it's not economical. If you un-sub, BW won't feel it. Still, I understand everybody who's sorely disappointed, but as in former times this is not a priority fo BW.

 

3)

 

Are Nim OPs puggable since they have the gear?

 

Very probable they are not. at least not entirely, so let'em have it, the gear will not carry them through mechanics like Draxus or DPS checks like TfB Dread Guards etc. You will still be more than good clearing those

 

---- and maybe a summary of many of the posts aforehand:

 

4) Is BW turning away from end-content challenges toward a mass game?

 

To this I point toward

 

a) the upcoming release of new SW movie and

b) towards the fact that endontent PVE players make up like maybe 2% of all subs

 

and say: Of course they do and economically speaking they are RIGHT to do so, since PVE progression doesn't earn money (look at wildstar if you don't believe me^^)

 

Personal comment:

 

I find it sad and disappointing too, especially since the retenue of solo players would easily be enough to support a team to care about progress pve AND pvp players, but they don't and - imho - won't in the near future.

 

So, you now have two options: quit the game and search elsewhere or (like I do) continue playing, because you have met a lot of funny intriguing person out there

 

best

Me

Edited November 14, 2015 by Braggalo
typos

[Lodinn]

[...] I imagine that the bugs in the story content were prioritized over raid bugs, and I understand that they would do this.

Fair enough.

 

I guess there's a difference between gear from killing a new boss vs. from rekilling an existing boss.

But I do think that complaining is too strong of a word for this. I could have started the thread with "OMG BioWare why you use EV as Priority Target, please hotfix immediately!" but instead I mostly wanted to hear what other raiding guilds think of this because at least in my guild, everyone was surprised and felt sad that EV is the priority target.

It's more like "Kill Revan, get loot, kill other stuff more easily and offer a light carry to some people who are close to it but can't beat certain encounters". With 204, you down Revan once or twice, maybe farm some decos but that's it. People who got him earlier on farmed him much much more. Take out mainhand - and it's like 1/3rd of motivation for many to grind, where another 1/2nd is for fun and on alts or something and 1/6 goes to decos and such.

Besides, 198 MH was discredited even before as some people REd 198 OH barrel/hilt, didn't get mats/recipe/whatsoever, wrote tickets and voila! 198 barrel/hilt not tied to OH. You know.

Those were not so many but still.

 

The main problem I see is that raiding guilds are now able to farm 224 gear much faster than expected. Before Monday, I expected players to be BiS 224 a few months into the future. Now knowing that the easy operations are also in the queue, this time is reduced to a few weeks. We will see how many guilds stick around once they farmed gear on their mains - will they continue farming gear for their alts, will they continue raiding even if they no longer need gear from it, will we see more sale runs offered?

OK, as a top-tier but not very hardcore (we're lazy and don't sit on one boss for weeks just to kill it asap) raiding guild member I guess I can tell you what happened. Right before 4.0 we got a huge flow of people joining, and we had like 12 people online each evening who could clear 7/10 at least in their sleep. Everyone was hoping for 4.0 progression and fun with not being stuck with just 2 ops. Now at raiding time there are 6, so pretty much those 6 farm EV highlight and stuff Be it DF/DP, would have to pug 2 more.

I don't feel the urge to grind. I got my tank in 220s, 220 comm left side is better than 224, it's unlikely for me I can kill some bosses in 224 as a tank and can't in 220, so... Getting a relic is all i could want from EV but not up for doing even that, hardly can bear the atmosphere on a server. The hype is not healthy at all. Joining runs where ppl be like "YESYESYESSS MORE 224!" is far worse than even 3.0 farm runs. Please no. I feel so much down that only piece of 224 I proudly wear is an earpiece on a toon I can't play. Just... meh. I'd rather run NiMs in 220 than EV HM for 224 but people are not up for it mostly either.

 

Sale runs? You see, we're a guild who could probably sell some vanity stuff but never done that. Being all BiS on all toons can hardly change the attitude of not seeing any point in this.

In terms of 3.0, I'd say most 5/10 teams will stay as they have some stuff to run. Many 10/10 will stay as well but not really running anything. In terms of teams and not players it will be casual time with wiping on HM draxus. I've seen pug who had nim bront pre-3.0 and some experience on lvl 60 HMs who failed like everything, no interrupts, no pushing boss etc. For them, it's a good time to learn. For those who know, it's just boring. Why raid in your perfectly adjusted group on mains if you faceroll everything?

Alts and alt roles? Possible, now we have 3 tanks, 3 healers and 2 dps quite often But mostly people stick to 2 roles max. I can heal, for example, it's fun for like 1 hour but then I stay out of it for a couple of days.

Oh, and yes, 1 set of legacy gear for all dps is a way to go. Why grind more?

 

1) Was EV highlight a bad idea?

For Raiders and those who care about challenging content: Yes, for it dulls interest and motivation.

For those who want gear (which is the far majority): No, because they get what they want without having to pay a progress guild to wave them through

Sorry, what? Where do you pay prog guilds for _gear_? I thought people were selling mono MH and Revan kills along with all ToS drop, but for the latter gear is a small bonus, no?

 

3) Are Nim OPs puggable since they have the gear?

Not just fleet-puggable. You still need able people but don't need perfect coordination most likely and fitting team together.

Custom channels ftw.

[Braggalo]

 

Sorry, what? Where do you pay prog guilds for _gear_? I thought people were selling mono MH and Revan kills along with all ToS drop, but for the latter gear is a small bonus, no?

Custom channels ftw.

 

It happened, believe me^^

Edited November 14, 2015 by Braggalo

[sethdil]

Ah, yes, Elitists complaining again ...

 

Exactly,

 

If you the crying, complaining players can muster ONE, ONLY ONE valid way this is directly affecting your ability to play the game then I might listen. Otherwise all this thread is about is whining, bottom line is if you don't want to do the OP then don't, however do not be mistake for one moment that is "affects" the games population or that it will cause "mass" exits from the game cause you are not the subscription police!!

 

Again, I will shut up if you can provide me one example of how this mechanic disrupts your ability to play the game?

 

Well? Anyone? Anything? Common, how has this disrupted your ability to directly play the game?

[Banegio]

Exactly,

 

If you the crying, complaining players can muster ONE, ONLY ONE valid way this is directly affecting your ability to play the game then I might listen. Otherwise all this thread is about is whining, bottom line is if you don't want to do the OP then don't, however do not be mistake for one moment that is "affects" the games population or that it will cause "mass" exits from the game cause you are not the subscription police!!

 

Again, I will shut up if you can provide me one example of how this mechanic disrupts your ability to play the game?

 

Well? Anyone? Anything? Common, how has this disrupted your ability to directly play the game?

 

May as well put all gear on cm or just hand them out as reward as you complete chapter 9. Cause win-win and doesn't "disrupt the ability to directly play the game"

Edited November 16, 2015 by Banegio

[FerkWork]

I like all the people advertising on fleet need 216 min for pugs XD. Did it at launch on one run with old PvP Gear. People sayin madness I just lol cause there bad who think gear=skill XD

[Bradypan]

May as well put all gear on cm or just hand them out as reward as you complete chapter 9. Cause win-win and doesn't "disrupt the ability to directly play the game"

 

That'd be rather interesting. Every gets full BiS gear and can then go into any op they want. Then we'll see who is really able to clear NiM content, unless they nerf the fights so much that just having BiS gear will allow someone to clear an instance. I wonder if it would still be around the 20 groups that were able to clear Revan pre-nerf.

[KeyboardNinja]

That'd be rather interesting. Every gets full BiS gear and can then go into any op they want. Then we'll see who is really able to clear NiM content, unless they nerf the fights so much that just having BiS gear will allow someone to clear an instance. I wonder if it would still be around the 20 groups that were able to clear Revan pre-nerf.

 

It would be less than that honestly, if the content were correctly tuned, since a lot of those groups have left the game. HM Revan is incredibly easy now compared to what it was even post-nerf. The only hard part of the fight now, assuming your raid group is able to follow a script, is the core burn, and even that's easier than it was due to the Heave nerf (75 stacks only tickles).

 

But the content isn't correctly tuned. The hardest content overall seems to be NiM Brontes, NiM Kephess (EC) and NiM Dread Guard, and most of those bosses are hard because of blatantly incorrect tuning (yay, 47k tentacle slams). Mechanically, they're all easier than Revan was, and really only exhibit difficulty in extremely specific areas, one at a time.

 

Basically, not only is gear easier to obtain, but the "apex content" is easier to clear. There is absolutely no question that the endgame ceiling is lower than it has been a long time (perhaps since 2.0). The only question is whether the lower ceiling will be a larger or smaller factor than the departure of high-quality players.

Edited November 16, 2015 by KeyboardNinja

[mmerry]

NiM Dread Guard

 

brb speccing balance err serenity for teh feels

[KeyboardNinja]

brb speccing balance err serenity for teh feels

 

Mathematically Impossible™

[alskgj]

Exactly,

 

If you the crying, complaining players can muster ONE, ONLY ONE valid way this is directly affecting your ability to play the game then I might listen. Otherwise all this thread is about is whining, bottom line is if you don't want to do the OP then don't, however do not be mistake for one moment that is "affects" the games population or that it will cause "mass" exits from the game cause you are not the subscription police!!

 

Again, I will shut up if you can provide me one example of how this mechanic disrupts your ability to play the game?

 

Well? Anyone? Anything? Common, how has this disrupted your ability to directly play the game?

 

(English is not my native language, so my wording might be a little bit off...)

Let me provide you an anology to your question:

 

There are some other games I play like Starcraft 2 and League of Legends. I hope you are familiar with them.

If you are not let me explain:

Both are competitive ESport titles and most of the motivation to play them is to be better than most other players. You want to reach the highest rank. In Starcraft 2 you want to get into the masters league - if you are very good you are probably even shooting for the GrandMaster league.

 

In League of Legends it is much the same (only that the leagues have other names).

Now Blizzard or Riot might come along and think "Hmm. Everyone wants to get into Grandmaster, nobody wants to be in bronze league and atm only a very low percentile of players are in the top tier league. Let's just change our system so that everyone who plays longer than a week gets promoted into Grandmaster. Then everyone is in the league he wants to be and is happy.

 

For some players the incentive to play a MMORPG like swtor is much the same. They want to be the best in pvp or pve. They want to have the pvp rewards or the highest tier pve stuff which is in essence the same as that Master league icon in starcraft or that diamond symbol your very good playing friend has.

They don't really care about the gear itself. It's more about the showing off part. I think most top raiders are more negative about the revanchist title now beeing fairly easy to get or that the revan HM decoration now drops in SM. But the reason about that frustration is the same.

 

Neither merging all the leagues in SC2/LoL into a single one nor handing out the same gear to all players of different skill levels does "disrupt your ability to play the game", but for some player it destroys the motivation to play the game. I guess you could call that elitist.

[stkan]

Anyone who whining and complain in here just don't have enough alt to win his MH or being an *** that dont want any casual player to have a hand on Top tier gears.

[Voths]

Here's to hoping KP is the next priority target!

[FerkWork]

Here's to hoping KP is the next priority target!

 

I hope so too. Now no one has the right to complain that any SM boss is overtuned when you have NiM Gear.

[VoidOfOne]

May as well put all gear on cm or just hand them out as reward as you complete chapter 9. Cause win-win and doesn't "disrupt the ability to directly play the game"

 

That... is... BRILLIANT!

 

Lets do that! Then no one will want to raid and we won't have this issue anymore! Problem solved!

 

Wish I thought of it.

 

I enjoy EV anyway. Not too long, and Belsavis is my favorite planet.

 

Looking forward to what the next Priority Target is...

[Jerba]

Looking forward to what the next Priority Target is...

This week's Priority Target is Scum & Villainy. I was able to see it because maintenance started one hour after server reset. Should be a higher challenge than Eternity Vault for most players, especially because of the high DPS check on Styrak. The 224 mainhands are no longer free loot, at least until the next time EV is a Priority Target.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Jerba

[Bradypan]

It would be less than that honestly, if the content were correctly tuned, since a lot of those groups have left the game. HM Revan is incredibly easy now compared to what it was even post-nerf. The only hard part of the fight now, assuming your raid group is able to follow a script, is the core burn, and even that's easier than it was due to the Heave nerf (75 stacks only tickles).

 

But the content isn't correctly tuned. The hardest content overall seems to be NiM Brontes, NiM Kephess (EC) and NiM Dread Guard, and most of those bosses are hard because of blatantly incorrect tuning (yay, 47k tentacle slams). Mechanically, they're all easier than Revan was, and really only exhibit difficulty in extremely specific areas, one at a time.

 

Basically, not only is gear easier to obtain, but the "apex content" is easier to clear. There is absolutely no question that the endgame ceiling is lower than it has been a long time (perhaps since 2.0). The only question is whether the lower ceiling will be a larger or smaller factor than the departure of high-quality players.

 

That's rather disappointing to hear. My raid team and I have been taking this expansion very slowly and cut down our raid days from 4 a week to 1 until new operations get released. We haven't bothered doing any NiM content yet, so we didn't know that there were so many easy bosses. Heave being irrelevant makes the core burn ridiculously easy until an enrage. It's sad that the only way BioWare can make content difficult right now is to overtune fights, instead of adding actually difficult mechanics.

[KeyboardNinja]

That's rather disappointing to hear. My raid team and I have been taking this expansion very slowly and cut down our raid days from 4 a week to 1 until new operations get released. We haven't bothered doing any NiM content yet, so we didn't know that there were so many easy bosses. Heave being irrelevant makes the core burn ridiculously easy until an enrage. It's sad that the only way BioWare can make content difficult right now is to overtune fights, instead of adding actually difficult mechanics.

 

Heave isn't quite irrelevant, but it's certainly the next-closest thing. It isn't a one-shot until ~90 stacks, which should tell you something about how it's hitting right now. Basically, the timing is such now that the one-shot Heave comes only a bit before the Core enrage itself (we were pushing to get some newcomers practice after having a few deaths early in the burn, and with defensives/bubbles we pushed well over 100 stacks with ease).

 

But yeah. Hard DPS checks are basically the only thing that remains difficult, and those are definitionally nerfed by the lockout farming of Soa that we all did last week.

[chiefsnjet]

Heave isn't quite irrelevant, but it's certainly the next-closest thing. It isn't a one-shot until ~90 stacks, which should tell you something about how it's hitting right now. Basically, the timing is such now that the one-shot Heave comes only a bit before the Core enrage itself (we were pushing to get some newcomers practice after having a few deaths early in the burn, and with defensives/bubbles we pushed well over 100 stacks with ease).

 

But yeah. Hard DPS checks are basically the only thing that remains difficult, and those are definitionally nerfed by the lockout farming of Soa that we all did last week.

 

Edited November 17, 2015 by chiefsnjet

[Bradypan]

Heave isn't quite irrelevant, but it's certainly the next-closest thing. It isn't a one-shot until ~90 stacks, which should tell you something about how it's hitting right now. Basically, the timing is such now that the one-shot Heave comes only a bit before the Core enrage itself (we were pushing to get some newcomers practice after having a few deaths early in the burn, and with defensives/bubbles we pushed well over 100 stacks with ease).

 

But yeah. Hard DPS checks are basically the only thing that remains difficult, and those are definitionally nerfed by the lockout farming of Soa that we all did last week.

 

Yeah, it certainly sounds like a combination of Jugg tank/DPS sonic wall + sorc healer bubbles would allow entire raid groups to survive through a ridiculous number of stacks. 224 MH farming was just hilarious, we just went in with a healer, tank, and 3 DPS and got free 224 MHs for mains and 220 MHs for alts. Kind of ridiculous, considering that in min maxed gear for the time we only 7-manned Revan HM, while nobody even had full 216s for farming Soa HM this past week. Certainly seems like certain fights need to be tuned to be more difficult just from a DPS/healing check perspective. I'd imagine that when they highlight Ravagers, people will at least have a more difficult time farming MHs off of Coratanni. I asked the Lead Designer at a recent Cantina Tour if they would ever make fights as mechanically interesting/difficult as pre-nerf Revan and he said they might consider making fights even more difficult. One can only hope...

[Torvai]

Heave isn't quite irrelevant, but it's certainly the next-closest thing. It isn't a one-shot until ~90 stacks, which should tell you something about how it's hitting right now. Basically, the timing is such now that the one-shot Heave comes only a bit before the Core enrage itself (we were pushing to get some newcomers practice after having a few deaths early in the burn, and with defensives/bubbles we pushed well over 100 stacks with ease).

 

Doesn't the stacks reduce max hp by 1% each? How can you go above 100 then?