Jumajin Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Your money gets you access to the game and nothing else. entitled. lol As a successful business owner, myself, I so love customers like you. Honestly, you guys are so easy to take advantage of, and half the time you don't even realize it's happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So... I'm not sure what it is that you want? They are working. They do not need to give you a daily update on what that means. You don't get to signoff on what they are working on. You don't get to prioritize or even choose what should be next. In short, they have a lot of bugs to fix. They also need to prep and finalize the next bit of content. Beyond that, they need to continue working on what is coming next and the codebase therein. Now, throw in the normal maintenance and upkeep, plus whatever else BW has in store as it relates to promos capitalizing on the movie and they have quite enough to do. I never understood why players need so much hand holding in and MMO. Leave them alone and let them squash the bugs. When an update or comms are needed they will come in due course. In the meantime, you can assume they are doing their job. You have a schedule on what is coming next through the end of the year btw. Relax and play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horrorfaneightys Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 They did communicate more until these forums became a constant complaint. No matter what they do people find something to complain about and they keep posting over and over about it. There was something my boyfriend and I didn't like, the grouping, but we adjusted and figured out how to do the grouping in the new expansion and we moved on. Some people no matter what is stated will stomp their feet about something demanding they change something. Sometimes it is best if they don't respond especially on items they know will remain and not be changed. What if they came in and told someone no this is the way it is going to be right now,, how will some of these people act? Would they drop the matter? No, they would keep complaining and considering some of the past actions some of these individuals have done I can't blame them for being quiet. Would I like more communication yes but until some individuals in the forums start acting like adults then I don't see them saying much until it is necessary. This. When they get abuse/get personally harassed when they do post, can you blame them for being silent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Songano Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 So just because 100 people (just an example...) are being toxic and attacking the developers, many of the other "hundred thousands" stwor-customers have to suffer for it? Really? What about professionalism? Dont you think blizzard is getting attacked by thousands of customers on a daily basis? One has to wonder why they did not cancel blizzcon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horrorfaneightys Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) So just because 100 people (just an example...) are being toxic and attacking the developers, many of the other "hundred thousands" stwor-customers have to suffer for it? Really? What about professionalism? Dont you think blizzard is getting attacked by thousands of customers on a daily basis? One has to wonder why they did not cancel blizzcon... Can you honestly blame them for being cautious about what they say? As soon as one of them posts someone comes in to lambast them about something. And being professional doesn't mean they should have to put up with it. So they post less, but honestly, I'd rather them be working on in-game issues rather than chatting with us. Edited November 10, 2015 by horrorfaneightys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Lets hope they return soon, I wonder aswell why it is so silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Mum, dat man don't talk to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenesi Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 This. When they get abuse/get personally harassed when they do post, can you blame them for being silent? You do realise it's part of their job - dealing with such people? If they can't manage it, they probably aren't suited for the job. Current state of forums is in part their fault. I still remeber marauders debackle at 3.X. Yes, it was terrible. But proper CM would have simply dealt with the problem, not blackmail the entire community to never speak with them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I call shenanigans. BioWare put you on the payroll, right? I don't see any reason why anyone here who *isn't* on the payroll should defend the complete and total silence from the community managers unless they're being paid to do it. Because that's silly. YOU shouldn't be "that guy" who thinks that the company is always right, not the customer, because right now, far from being the voice of reason, you're simply being a shill. I think we deserve better. There you go. That is exactly why it is better for them to say nothing until there is actually something they need to communicate. That type of toxic crap right there. Thanks for clearing it up. /thread Edited November 10, 2015 by Rafaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonskye Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 There you go. That is exactly why it is better for them to say nothing until there is actually something they need to communicate. That type of toxic crap right there. Thanks for clearing it up. Yeah, that's just ridiculous. You obviously haven't read anything but what you've cherry picked to suit your worldview. Go back and reread my original post and you will clearly see I have a reasonable and logical point, and I'm tired of the personal attacks on those of us who don't believe we are seeing an investment in the community by the people who make this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 As a successful business owner, myself And I'm the queen of England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denerio Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 They know the game is sinking and on life support that's probably why they won't say anything. Just a matter of time now before it's game over here. 2016 will be disastrous for this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 They know the game is sinking and on life support that's probably why they won't say anything. Just a matter of time now before it's game over here. 2016 will be disastrous for this game. Only because you're still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 We got a great game here and you're all teary-faced over not getting noticed by Senpai Musco! Notice me, Senpai! This comment together with your sig is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Click the Dev Tracker sometime. You'll see they respond to stuff they deem important. I tend to agree with their priorities in this regard. General Discussion doesn't need an official response to pretty much anything in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 probably vacation..last expansions they had to talk because of the exploits going live (lol early beta), this time their pov is a successfull expansion so deserved relax... shame you oneshot mobs with a dot, if any is left by your companion and you don't fall the platform with the new commando OP ability, but enough talking, it's time to farm 224mh from EV lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImmortalLowlife Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Any decision they make, someone will complain about it. It's not a video game thing. It's not an internet thing. It's a fact of life. If you're not prepared to deal with venom, don't surround yourself with snakes. I find that "ppl are mean" excuse weak as hell. A MAJOR part of a community managers job is "communicate with the community. That's been missing here for a long time. If the reason they DON'T is because of a "few very loud toxic individuals", then they should just shut down the message board, stop allowing people to post, & just have a blog for people to read. That way they don't have to deal with anyone's opinion. That said.....IDGAF one way or another. Dulfy and other fan sites are more helpful than this one, so those sites are generally where I go first when I need answers. TL/DR- community managers....if you scared, go to church. You knew the job was dangerous when you took it. ( Snoop Dogg voice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You do realise it's part of their job - dealing with such people? If they can't manage it, they probably aren't suited for the job. Current state of forums is in part their fault. I still remeber marauders debackle at 3.X. Yes, it was terrible. But proper CM would have simply dealt with the problem, not blackmail the entire community to never speak with them again. Really? You're gonna bring that up as your example? The "debacle" that involved members of the community seeking out a developer's (not community manager, developer) family on social media and threatening them because they didn't like the detailed explanation and communication over the changes to the class? That situation is actually, in my opinion, a prime example of why Bioware isn't 100% at fault here. OP has a point and Bioware is still partially at fault for not communicating anywhere near enough. It's not game breaking for me, I still enjoy the game heavily, but it's disappointing for sure. But the toxicity of this community has hurt that communication just as much and there is no justifying the extremes that were gone to in that situation you brought up. I don't care how poor you feel communication has been or how the community managers have done their jobs, there is no excuse for somebody from this community to seek out the personal social media accounts of a developer's family in order to send them personal threats. That's inexcusable and if I was that dev I'd have quit development on the spot. That blackmail you talk about was Musco explaining that if something like that happened again they wouldn't ask the developers to make posts explaining the changes they made in detail again (meaning they weren't saying they wouldn't post anymore, they were saying the devs themselves wouldn't because the CMs wouldn't ask them to do so anymore). That was a situation where we got the communication the OP was talking about. They went into great detail on why they made those changes when they really didn't have to. Does that mean you had to agree? No, not at all. I don't agree with many of the changes made and my Sentinel is my main. But you beg for communication, throw shots at the devs and the community managers for not getting it, then when you get that communication and it goes just as horribly as it possibly could have you turn around and blame the people that just gave you what you wanted and got burned for it instead of blaming the lowlives on the forums that thought threats to a developer's family would be the best way to get what they wanted. I hope they increase communication, I said this when the Sentinel thing went down and I'll say it again now, but let's not pretend that the community's toxicity has no influence on the current lack of communication. Let's not overlook that they gave us exactly what we wanted in that regard and they got burned for it, and then blamed for said burning despite the totally unjustifiable actions of however many members of the community thought it was a great idea to go to such extremes. This community wants communication, and I'm inclined to agree, but communication is and has always been a two way street. When one side of that communication is going to go that far to burn the other side because they don't agree with what was done? Why in the world would the Community Managers ever ask the devs to make posts like that again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 They were as silent as they could be before the expac was released as well. Basically everything after E3 was like we were pulling teeth. This would have been ok by me if they hadn't spent half of the E3 presentation promising imminent details/info that we basically didn't get. BW/EA marketing in general needs to rethink what they're doing: they have a great xpac but they're letting trolls drown that message out. While engaging trolls directly is usually a bad idea, silence is just about the worst idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralRhodes Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 You want details that are irrelevant. They're working on fixing the bugs, sit back, be quiet and they'll let us know when they're fixed. Don't be 'that guy' that demands details that he wouldn't even understand. You know the guy. The one who insists on you explaining what you're doing to fix his car/computer/whatever and gets mad when you gently explain that he wouldn't understand. You know, you have a serious attitude problem. You have called people 'morons,' 'idiots,' 'entitled' and repeatedly claimed they 'wouldn't understand' (which is yet another way of belittling them as some kind of idiot) all the while telling them to shut up and not to ask questions. You are the one with the problem. You're acting like an ignorant, belittling child. They did communicate more until these forums became a constant complaint In other words lets blame the victim then. No matter what they do people find something to complain about and they keep posting over and over about it. And blaming the victim again. Common sense says that if people keep saying something is wrong, its because something IS wrong and needs to be addressed. If you don't address it you will keep getting the same response. You know what the definition of insanity is and all that, right? My wisdom is you talk too much, you whine too much, you cry too much over things that don't matter Just how many times are you going to belittle and attack the community exactly? Just because you claim something doesn't matter doesn't mean that you are right (hint: you're not) and you have the audacity to accused others of 'entitlement.' Pot, meet kettle. A very small percentage of the players even bother to come to the forums, if they have announcements to make posting a note on the launcher or through Twitter reaches many more people for less effort. The real problem is that forum warriors don't want to acknowledge that their views are a tiny minority when they claim to speak for "the players" in general. Except that appeals to a silent majority are always lies and are always a logical fallacy. There is no silent majority. Claiming this is some tiny number of players isn't just ignorant its idiotic. This. When they get abuse/get personally harassed when they do post, can you blame them for being silent? So you blame the entire community for the actions of an individual then. Note that this silence was going on long before that incident and has literally nothing to do with anyone or anything that was not directly involved with that incident. So thats a bs excuse. And being professional doesn't mean they should have to put up with it. Actually it does. Thats part of behaving in professional manner in a business like this. The fact is, criticism is the nature of the business and if you can't take it you shouldn't be doing the job in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonskye Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) I'd once again like to bring this back to my ORIGINAL point - as the original poster - that it is not just person-to-person interaction that is gone (rightfully so or not) but a complete lack of ANYTHING public coming out of BioWare and SWTOR. THAT is what I brought up as my original point. Not that we're not getting replies to individual threads... but rather, no blog posts, no regular updates, barely any indication whatsoever about bugs being fixed, etc. If you look at the Developer Tracker history you will see how much their interaction with the community *and* the information they put out has dwindled to almost nothing since expansion release. Compare that to the vast amounts of information, updates and thoughtful blogging put out by ArenaNet for Guild Wars 2's Heart of Thorns expansion, or what Blizzard has been putting out since announcing WoW: Legion at Gamescom. You'll see a dramatic difference. There are legitimate requests for information that have been put to BioWare and the SWTOR developer team, and we deserve better than what we're getting... not just about cartel coins stuff, but things we genuinely care about: issues around loot, lag problems, crew skills issues, broken story quests, an absence of information on why we should be developing our alliances, etc. Anyone who has come into this thread accusing me of whining, or getting smarmy and insulting that even the community managers themselves are totally fine disappearing into the ether, not only completely miss the point I was trying to make, but are themselves part of the problem. No wonder this place is toxic... we can't even post coherent, rational thoughts without being attacked as being trolls. Shameful. Edited November 10, 2015 by damonskye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolunart Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 They know the game is sinking and on life support that's probably why they won't say anything. Just a matter of time now before it's game over here. 2016 will be disastrous for this game. The game has been dying since the day it was released, according to random people on the forums. Keep at it, one of these years you'll be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonskye Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 The game has been dying since the day it was released, according to random people on the forums. Keep at it, one of these years you'll be right. It's not about whether the game is dying. I've played it since beta, and I want to see it continue. But engagement with the player base is the reason why WOW and GW2 and other games succeed, and this paradigm of keeping the player base of SWTOR in the dark isn't going to keep the game afloat. It's just common sense; the less you engage with your customers, the less business you bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 ..issues around loot, lag problems, crew skills issues, broken story quests, an absence of information on why we should be developing our alliances, etc. i think they simply can't: -why nim drops 220 and EV hm 224? how can they explain it without admitting poor endgame developement mistakes? -lag has been always around for some clients, i'm no technician so can't help but probably economic/coding reason behind that, if not directly region/client issues. -why people had to buy back schematics? why they took away reusables further? can it be all credit/mat sink? they cannot admit it. it's like meta-gaming. -broken quests since launch, how can you debate it? -good question..why do i need more than 6 companions since all do all roles? why do i need to do 8 times star fortress? i won't do it twice.. -ok the game has been dumbed..but how can you possibly debate around oneshotting mobs with a dot.. -where's the ''better than cross server''? scrolling the forums is like staying in a room crowded with children while you would like to shout to your wife, you cannot and you must try to be polite for child's sake..all while handling her the credit card lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBreakfast Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Wow, OP. I actually feel bad that you have deal with certain people here... way to be patient. I really don't see how anybody can be so against what you said. More communication from the devs about pending issues in this game cannot possibly be a bad thing. Well, when the topic is particularly volatile, I can understand their wanting to be more silent. But there are a number of things out there affecting all players equally, and it would certainly be nice if we could get an update or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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