Confused by the controversy over game difficulty

[Belidos_Goveko]

Pretty much people who think it's too easy, mostly veterans who are probably well geared and know their characters well, think that the base difficulty should be raised to meet their expectations, with no thought given to what new players without gear, knowledge, high presence, or other legacy perks will do when everything is a giant roadblock to them.

 

As a new player (beta/release account that never got used for more than a few minutes) I would disagree slightly. Granted my highest level character is only level 15 at the moment so i'm not exactly experienced, but from what I have experienced so far in general the game is very easy even for us newbs. So far I have only died once on any of my characters and that was only because I went to the toilet and left him standing on top of a corpse i'd just killed and it re-spawned before I got back.

 

Granted I haven't played a lot of the game yet so I don't know if it gets much harder, and granted i'm an experienced mmo player having played almost every mainstream mmo since UO, but it does seem a tad easy so far.

[Mikahrone]

As a new player (beta/release account that never got used for more than a few minutes) I would disagree slightly. Granted my highest level character is only level 15 at the moment so i'm not exactly experienced, but from what I have experienced so far in general the game is very easy even for us newbs. So far I have only died once on any of my characters and that was only because I went to the toilet and left him standing on top of a corpse i'd just killed and it re-spawned before I got back.

 

Granted I haven't played a lot of the game yet so I don't know if it gets much harder, and granted i'm an experienced mmo player having played almost every mainstream mmo since UO, but it does seem a tad easy so far.

 

duh. Most of these games play same way, you could say when you learn one youve learn them all.

 

Just wee how much trouble peopl have getting into EvE or how much trouble people had with GW2.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Ghisallo]

Wheres your 224 gear?

 

Wheres your "advanced PvP gear"?

 

And you personally, how did you count all the grind done in past 4 years?

 

Well getting the 224 is not a grind. Kill mob get item... That is how hard core raiding works and it applies only to that ratified crowd. How many people ever even see the inside of that level? Because of the dynamic this birders on a non sequitur.

 

So for this argument 216/220 gear applies. The speed at which you get tokens this expac is CRAZY fast if you know how to use the faction system. Gearing up a single toon is simply crazy fast. This is compounded by the fact that with legacy gear you can buy tank gear on your healer then ship it to your tank. It gets compounded again by the fact that tank gear is now the only gear that has unique stats.

 

As for the last 4 years, again the grind here is nothing for an MMO. Within short order (admittedly mostly for the last 2 years) you end up in short order hitting the currency cap and have nothing to spend it on.

 

As for you raising PvP, you already made the case that the MOBAs have clear differences, to which I agreed. One of those differences is that they have a clear PvP bias. As such asking about having complete sets of PvP and PvE gear in a game that tries to serve both PvP and PvE, in defense of an "epic grind" argument is disingenuous as it is an apples to oranges comparison.

[Mikahrone]

Well getting the 224 is not a grind. Kill mob get item... That is how hard core raiding works and it applies only to that ratified crowd. How many people ever even see the inside of that level? Because of the dynamic this birders on a non sequitur.

 

So for this argument 216/220 gear applies. The speed at which you get tokens this expac is CRAZY fast if you know how to use the faction system. Gearing up a single toon is simply crazy fast. This is compounded by the fact that with legacy gear you can buy tank gear on your healer then ship it to your tank. It gets compounded again by the fact that tank gear is now the only gear that has unique stats.

 

As for the last 4 years, again the grind here is nothing for an MMO. Within short order (admittedly mostly for the last 2 years) you end up in short order hitting the currency cap and have nothing to spend it on.

 

As for you raising PvP, you already made the case that the MOBAs have clear differences, to which I agreed. One of those differences is that they have a clear PvP bias. As such asking about having complete sets of PvP and PvE gear in a game that tries to serve both PvP and PvE, in defense of an "epic grind" argument is disingenuous as it is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

Just because YOU have crapton of lvl60+ characters, millions of credits and are capped on comms on all of them when the moment update hits DOES NOT mean theres no epic grind. And your diatribe on 224 gear is hilarious.

 

Please, i want it now, where can i go to punch a mob to get it with my lvl 1 character? Kill mob get item, remember?

 

You have to look at things objectively and look at big picture.

 

Just because they lessened the grind s bit, does not mean its still epic grind. Theres less and less MMO players and this is one of main culprits for that.

 

It may even be "crazy fast" to MMOs 10 years ago. But that really means nothing except 10 years ago MMOs were even worse.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mikahrone

[maidelken]

Because that would be moving backward with respect to difficulty, and almost ALL games get easier with time. Making the game harder (which has been done with other games in the past) has proven to be a bad move, especially when it was set harder from an easier point.

 

In other words, the cat is now out of the bag. The group of players that desire the game to be harder FOR ALL are probably a tiny minority...and to appease a tiny minority at the expense of the majority of players would be foolish at best.

 

An option, IMO, is the only way to go at this point.

 

 

Hang on, I am fine with 'gets easier with time' but there is a massive difference between getting easier over 4 years and becoming a demo on auto play over night.

 

Do you know, I would even accept it if I had to at least press the basic attack, at least I have to have some input from my character. But right now I don't, there is no point in actually playing the game. No risk, no reward.

[Ghisallo]

Just because YOU have crapton of lvl60+ characters, millions of credits and are capped on comms on all of them when the moment update hits DOES NOT mean theres no epic grind. And your diatribe on 224 gear is hilarious.

 

Please, i want it now, where can i go to punch a mob to get it with my lvl 1 character? Kill mob get item, remember?

 

You have to look at things objectively and look at big picture.

 

Just because they lessened the grind s bit, does not mean its still epic grind. Theres less and less MMO players and this is one of main culprits for that.

 

It may even be "crazy fast" to MMOs 10 years ago. But that really means nothing except 10 years ago MMOs were even worse.

 

I have only used two toons to date. Just got to Odessen yesterday on toon number 2. It's not a matter of having some crazy number of toons, its just a matter of knowing how to use the system. I stumbled on the faction thing with no research. It's really not that hard. As for your talk about 10 years ago. 10 years ago, at least the games I played had NO tokens. You only got loot when you finished a quest or when the RNG gods decided that the gear for your class dropped AND you won the roll, had the dkp, got the drop via loot council award. Want to see a crazy grind today and not 10 years ago? Go check out RIFT.

 

In closing, like I said, two toons, one just hitting Odessen today BUT have 80% of the gear... In a little less than 2 weeks. All it takes is a little thought.

[Stradlin]

Some people play 10 hours a day and have the most difficult content beaten within a month of release. Compared to them my 10 hours a week feels pretty casual. My ops group managed to beat a whopping 2 out of 10 hardmode bosses in SoR before KotFE hit.

 

How much do you play per month? I'm curious about the connection between the time spent playing and the player's subjective definition of "casual".

 

 

 

Hehe, yeah there are always " those people" who play a ton, and compared to whom we all make filthy casuals.

I'm sorry though, your 40 hours a month which includes a stable Ops grp that has some success with HMs doesn't pass as casual in most books.

[Ghisallo]

Hang on, I am fine with 'gets easier with time' but there is a massive difference between getting easier over 4 years and becoming a demo on auto play over night.

 

Do you know, I would even accept it if I had to at least press the basic attack, at least I have to have some input from my character. But right now I don't, there is no point in actually playing the game. No risk, no reward.

 

This we agree on. What seems to be lost here, or ignored, is that just like you can over tune content and make it too hard you can under tune content. Both are equally damaging to the game and you have to adjust it. he trick is to make sure you have adequate QA when you make the change so you don't over do it. Since QA definitely appears to be a ? with this expansion I can appreciate there being some trepidation in regards to increasing difficulty but this does not mean it should not be considered.

 

Like I said elsewhere... I would be surprised if we did not see the curve increase with the release of future chapters though. People are simply progressing too fast. With the fact that the following chapters are going to be smaller than the initial outlay if they don't take steps to curb the speed of completion the issue they had regarding to original launch drop (people running out of things to do) will come again regardless of the phased release scheme. I mean lets be serious, in this very competitive environment how many players, especially new players, will finish a chapter in only a couple hours on one day then keep coming back 30 days or more later for the next chapter, even if the story was compelling, which this story is not.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ghisallo

[robertthebard]

Your first paragraph is missing my point. The claim I was responding to was "did you find it hard before?". All the comment about silvers was concerned with was illustrating that there was, even if subjective, a sense of danger among the player base that no longer exists, nothing more.

 

As for your bullet points...

1. Was is difficult? Again I said I would not say it was " hard" but clearly the game was more "difficult" than it is now. There was a higher time to kill which means more time to move to next mob, hence longer time to complete quest.

 

2. The thing is this. Part of the point of the first 9 chapters is to get people "hooked" on the story so they hang out for chapters 10-16. If the first 9 chapters make no sense, has issues engaging the player it undermines the entire methodology that lies behind there phased release.

 

Maybe having a background in History and having been in combat makes me say your analysis of Lana's description makes no sense. You do not have a Republic or Empire of the sizes we have here sue for peace from a foe, agree to pay tribute, allow armed space stations be placed in orbit around their worlds, their shipping lanes patrolled by an outside power unless you get owned.

 

Simply because Arcann is content with Tribute and control vs direct governance either personally or through his own bureaucracy does not mean his forces were not triumphant in a definitive way.

 

If you have a background in combat, then you'd know that blockading major worlds from getting anything in or out means that they're whipped. This is siege combat 101. Even my 1 step above a grunt 12B *** knows that. They did get owned. Their fleets were decimated, or worse, in the first 3 months. Nothing could stand against them, and the Iso 5 ships could only outrun them. This is all laid out in what Lana says. They not only did this, but they did it to both sides at the same time.

 

Then your last sentence goes on to contradict what your experience with KofFE was, according to you. You said you didn't see the imminent threat, then go on to say that the Republic and Empire got owned. Isn't that an imminent threat? Let's extrapolate that: They got owned at the same time, as Lana tells us. That's pretty threatening, if you ask me. Or maybe you can't see the context, since your character has to win out in what we've been given so far? I've told my guild mates that the only place Arkann is badder than me is in cutscenes, but that's the way it has to be. There are 7 chapters left to go, how much fun would it be if you could be killed in Chapt 8?

 

Regarding the rest, as I said, there is no point that they can look at in the game's history and say: This was the perfect level of "challenge". People complained about Silvers, you think that means "go back to then". However, people are still complaining about Silvers, or level sync wouldn't make the game hard for them. So either they're lying, or level sync creates a level of difficulty. There is nothing BW can do with the story that's going to make everyone happy, as far as difficulty goes. The best bet is to leave it as is. The challenge is going to be in the group content. I can solo the H2 SFs, but I won't be doing it often. They're not "hard", but they are intense, and at my age, I'm trying to limit that kind of thing.

 

The "but companions" argument isn't going to hold up much here either. I got knocked off the platform fighting the first Champ droid in the H2 fortress the other night, and solo'd my way back to my group, w/out my comp, on a tank spec'd assassin. I had to kill the guards to get out of "jail", and my comp was dismissed for the entirety. Maybe I'm just that good? If so, taking the game up to "challenging" for me would be bad for business, because people that couldn't do that wouldn't be able to play at all.

[LordArtemis]

First, many people seem to be arguing (perhaps not you) that the current ease is/was necessary to implement.

 

I don't argue that. In fact, I personally think the game has been far too easy for too long, and is far too easy now....most folks that know me here know that I am an old fashioned MMO player, but I simply changed with the times.

 

In other words I had no choice but to accept that times had changed.

 

Second people are confusing the idea of increasing current difficulty as making the game objectively hard. So I again raise SoR as the bar to meet... If SoR was easy and we just increase the difficulty to there, the game is still easy and not hard, it is just not as easy as it is currently.

 

Remember, I am not making a claim as to the difficulty of the game, current or past, as I have strong feelings about this personally....only that moving backward, IMO, is not wise under any circumstances.

 

Providing options to those that desire difficult content IS wise IMO.

 

I also raise SoRs ease for the final reason. If that was also easy why did they have to make the game even more so? In essence if you, or someone else, wants to raise the question of why in terms of increase asking difficulty, I can, with an example, raise the question "why did it have to be made even easier.

 

I can't speak as to why they did, their motivations so to speak. i can only speculate, and I would speculate it was a move to have a wider appeal in this current market.

 

But that is just speculation on my part.

 

All of this in the end is to argue that increasing difficulty, with in reason, will not have the hyperbolic negative impact that some people seem to think would occur.

 

See, that I would disagree with. The market has demonstrated time and time again that when games are presented one way, then made more difficult those games suffered for it. The market simply does not support a movement backward at this time.

 

Perhaps in the past. But not likely now.

 

Now, in all fairness SWTOR has bucked a few market trends (revenue despite an arguably punitive F2P system is one example), so perhaps it would not follow the "norm".

 

But every single game on the market that has increased difficulty from a more easy point has failed to retain or draw in players. EVERY ONE OF THEM lost money and players in the process.

 

Now, if someone can name a single game in the MMO market that increased difficulty and INCREASED revenue and/or their playerbase, then I digress.

As for your reference to the "mandatory" crowd... That is a tad hypocritical because of what we know to be the practical limitations of an MMO. They can not implement difficulty sliders as you would in a SP RPG. To introduce multiple levels of the solo instances would be a drain on resources in general and I pointed out elsewhere how a "easy" click able item for buffs would impact open world play in general and encourage griefing. So in essence you end up with one or the other as the "mandatory" mode. This is another reason why I use SoR as my bar. If no one (or almost no one) found that anything more than easy then it is a good compromise point between the "I want HM" peeps and the "I want 1 button play" peeps.

 

There are MANY ways they could provide increased difficulty using switches....such as a switch to disable presence, or something to disable influence.

 

All of this before I get into why I think blasting through an expac in a single weekend even with casual play is a bad thing for player retention...but that is something I think we already agreed to disagree on.

 

Content endurance is one of the few valid arguments IMO in favor of increased difficulty, but frankly with the system set up as it is (quicktravel and the like) it would be unlikely at this point that ANY difficulty setting would slow down the consumption of content.

 

IMO the goal, as it should have always been, is to provide repeatable side content that is arresting to players, especially casual ones, like appearance designer, home decorating, crafting, etc. In this they have made improvements, but still have a long way to go in my eyes.

 

At any rate, optional difficulty increase is the way to go from my perspective. A mandatory increase (or reversal if you may) would carry too many risks IMO.

[LordArtemis]

Hang on, I am fine with 'gets easier with time' but there is a massive difference between getting easier over 4 years and becoming a demo on auto play over night.

 

Do you know, I would even accept it if I had to at least press the basic attack, at least I have to have some input from my character. But right now I don't, there is no point in actually playing the game. No risk, no reward.

 

I don't feel it has become that easy. I am of the opinion that you have to put in some work to make the game that easy.

 

However, I do concede that the difficulty level overall has dropped dramatically, though less so for lower level players without established legacy setups.

 

In fact, I might argue that the game has become a tiny bit more difficult for brand new players.

[MasterKayote]

As someone who just came back after years of not playing, the game is embarrassingly easy. I know MMO's are supposed to be "accessible" but what ive experienced so far is just boring. At first I had trouble, even died a few times ... probably because I did not remember a thing and had to relearn how to play a level 50 character. Once I got the hang of it though? Best way to describe it is I feel like im playing god mode. I planned on at least doing a couple runs through the story but honestly rethinking it now.

 

EDIT: I should mention im a little into Shadow of Revan, on Rishi, which I was hoping would be more difficult since it finally zoomed passed my gear rating (which was only a few ilvl's higher to begin with)... it did not. Maybe KotFE is more of a challenge? I hope so.

Edited November 10, 2015 by MasterKayote

[hadoken]

As someone who just came back after years of not playing, the game is embarrassingly easy. I know MMO's are supposed to be "accessible" but what ive experienced so far is just boring. At first I had trouble, even died a few times ... probably because I did not remember a thing and had to relearn how to play a level 50 character. Once I got the hang of it though? Best way to describe it is I feel like im playing god mode. I planned on at least doing a couple runs through the story but honestly rethinking it now.

 

EDIT: I should mention im a little into Shadow of Revan, on Rishi, which I was hoping would be more difficult since it finally zoomed passed my gear rating (which was only a few ilvl's higher to begin with)... it did not. Maybe KotFE is more of a challenge? I hope so.

 

Strange, according to some your experience there is simply impossible.

[maidelken]

I don't feel it has become that easy. I am of the opinion that you have to put in some work to make the game that easy.

 

However, I do concede that the difficulty level overall has dropped dramatically, though less so for lower level players without established legacy setups.

 

In fact, I might argue that the game has become a tiny bit more difficult for brand new players.

 

 

The thing is, I DONT have an established legacy set up. I only started playing (again) in August and I started on a brand new account. I had 2 characters to level 50 by the time 4.0 released and each of them had 1 companion at max affection. I was mid way through the trooper story (I got Elara the day before 4.0 was released.)

 

So despite having no legacy unlocks (apart from a few travel perks) and only 2 companions giving me presence boosts (I still haven't maxed out all my old companion stories yet) my newly encountered companion became godlike. She had an influence score of 3 after I did a few conversations with her and it was then I discovered she could solo all the content on her own.

 

God forbid what my companions will be like st higher levels of legacy unlocks. I mean I'm now onto my agent storyline and kalyo is an utter beast. I can't pull agro from her, I'm 4 levels under the planet I'm on with gear that is 12 levels under where I am. She solos golds and champions in DPS mode.

 

I'm totally happy to accept I might have a bug, because if people aren't experiencing this then it would explain some things.

[LordArtemis]

The thing is, I DONT have an established legacy set up. I only started playing (again) in August and I started on a brand new account. I had 2 characters to level 50 by the time 4.0 released and each of them had 1 companion at max affection. I was mid way through the trooper story (I got Elara the day before 4.0 was released.)

 

So despite having no legacy unlocks (apart from a few travel perks) and only 2 companions giving me presence boosts (I still haven't maxed out all my old companion stories yet) my newly encountered companion became godlike. She had an influence score of 3 after I did a few conversations with her and it was then I discovered she could solo all the content on her own.

 

God forbid what my companions will be like st higher levels of legacy unlocks. I mean I'm now onto my agent storyline and kalyo is an utter beast. I can't pull agro from her, I'm 4 levels under the planet I'm on with gear that is 12 levels under where I am. She solos golds and champions in DPS mode.

 

I'm totally happy to accept I might have a bug, because if people aren't experiencing this then it would explain some things.

 

Yea, this was not my experience on another server, even with my account unlocks, nor was it my GFs experience with her brand new account and my occasional help.

 

In fact, she felt it was a bit tougher starting out.....but of course the account she USED to have (F2P) she had presence boosts for beginning characters after maxing out a few of the story sets, so treek was a god at lower levels.

 

At any rate, I think it is a matter of perspective. I have ALWAYS found the game far too easy since LAUNCH. But then I have honestly felt that when we moved away from permadeath, open PVP everywhere, corpse runs/player looting and themepark style instead of sandbox we lost the soul of MMOs.

 

That was when games were hard...MMOs have not been "hard" for 10 years now. Those days, unfortunately are gone.

[MasterKayote]

Strange, according to some your experience there is simply impossible.

 

Yeah thats hard to argue, im surprised people find this acceptable or even bother to argue against it. Some even suggest handicapping yourself to make it harder? Thats just ridiculous. This game used to be MUCH tougher. I remember when you almost HAD to have a healer companion with you or there wouldn't be much room for error (Corellia!).

 

As for legacy, im not 100% caught up on any changes but the only thing ive knowingly taken advantage of from it is the class buffs. For companions the highest I have is level 11. Even so, ive only been using HK in tank mode who is currently at level 4... still easy.

[hadoken]

Yeah thats hard to argue, im surprised people find this acceptable or even bother to argue against it. Some even suggest handicapping yourself to make it harder? Thats just ridiculous. This game used to be MUCH tougher. I remember when you almost HAD to have a healer companion with you or there wouldn't be much room for error (Corellia!).

 

As for legacy, im not 100% caught up on any changes but the only thing ive knowingly taken advantage of from it is the class buffs. For companions the highest I have is level 11. Even so, ive only been using HK in tank mode who is currently at level 4... still easy.

 

I should have just cut out the parts I wasn't commenting on, clearly you missed it

[maidelken]

Yea, this was not my experience on another server, even with my account unlocks, nor was it my GFs experience with her brand new account and my occasional help.

 

In fact, she felt it was a bit tougher starting out.....but of course the account she USED to have (F2P) she had presence boosts for beginning characters after maxing out a few of the story sets, so treek was a god at lower levels.

 

At any rate, I think it is a matter of perspective. I have ALWAYS found the game far too easy since LAUNCH. But then I have honestly felt that when we moved away from permadeath, open PVP everywhere, corpse runs/player looting and themepark style instead of sandbox we lost the soul of MMOs.

 

That was when games were hard...MMOs have not been "hard" for 10 years now. Those days, unfortunately are gone.

 

Which means something really weird is going on.

 

I kid you not when I first got kalyo on hutta she had THREE TIMES my health. At level 40(something) she has about double.

 

We both have a take down attack only usable when the enemy reaches 30% life. Mine hits for 800-1000, hers for 3000-3150.

 

It's like I'm playing a completely different game to her, she is SO MUCH more powerful than me.

[Ghisallo]

As someone who just came back after years of not playing, the game is embarrassingly easy. I know MMO's are supposed to be "accessible" but what ive experienced so far is just boring. At first I had trouble, even died a few times ... probably because I did not remember a thing and had to relearn how to play a level 50 character. Once I got the hang of it though? Best way to describe it is I feel like im playing god mode. I planned on at least doing a couple runs through the story but honestly rethinking it now.

 

EDIT: I should mention im a little into Shadow of Revan, on Rishi, which I was hoping would be more difficult since it finally zoomed passed my gear rating (which was only a few ilvl's higher to begin with)... it did not. Maybe KotFE is more of a challenge? I hope so.

 

Pretty much this. TBH though something just came to mind in terms of what the real issue with this debate is. The more I think about the more I think those defending the mind numbing game play are not actually concerned about the game play.

 

Many of the people defending the game play ease here are the same people who CHEERED for the return to "for this expac it's all about the story." The game play was never the thing for them...they wanted cut scene after cut scene, romance etc. I wonder if their concern is IF they admitted "yeah if I cared about the game play I have to agree" that the devs would then say "ooops... we need to devote resources to game play QA." Well that takes away resource and focus from the thing they are really into, the story. They have felt under served in that regard for sometime and maybe they are adopting a "nothing to see here!! all is well!!!" mindset to defend what they feel they have regained? In that same vein if they are jst focused on the story then the gameplay itself is an obstacle between them and the next cut scene, the fight is basically only a means to an end. The easier the means to your end the faster you get to your end.

 

The problem is this. The story is identical character to character. I would argue (pure opinion here btw) that no one could be so story obsessed that they would be willing to go through the exact same story over and over again, unless it was almost Shakespearean on the level of Kenneth Branagh in Henry V (

) and this is not that. A persistent MMORPG NEEDS replayability to survive. BW discovered this themselves upon the launch of this game and they lacked it even with 8 UNIQUE class stories. This time around we have a thus far less than engaging SINGLE story (though it has its moments) and no game play to fill the gap.

 

2012 revisited?

[well]

Actually people saying that it is to easy are admitting they are to stupid to learn. There is this thing called experience. If I am using too big of words let me know. So much easier teaching developmentally disabled. They had higher cognitive skills.

Here try reading this

Experience

 

the process of doing and seeing things and of having things happen to you

 

: skill or knowledge that you get by doing something

 

: the length of time that you have spent doing something (such as a particular job)

 

There may be a few that might understand that as you play games over the years you have understanding of how games work. Some probably won't. Their still fixated on trying to push their agenda. They can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Some of you please don't try that at home. I don't want to see anyone injure themselves.

[Mikahrone]

Pretty much this. TBH though something just came to mind in terms of what the real issue with this debate is. The more I think about the more I think those defending the mind numbing game play are not actually concerned about the game play.

 

Many of the people defending the game play ease here are the same people who CHEERED for the return to "for this expac it's all about the story." The game play was never the thing for them...they wanted cut scene after cut scene, romance etc. I wonder if their concern is IF they admitted "yeah if I cared about the game play I have to agree" that the devs would then say "ooops... we need to devote resources to game play QA." Well that takes away resource and focus from the thing they are really into, the story. They have felt under served in that regard for sometime and maybe they are adopting a "nothing to see here!! all is well!!!" mindset to defend what they feel they have regained? In that same vein if they are jst focused on the story then the gameplay itself is an obstacle between them and the next cut scene, the fight is basically only a means to an end. The easier the means to your end the faster you get to your end.

 

The problem is this. The story is identical character to character. I would argue (pure opinion here btw) that no one could be so story obsessed that they would be willing to go through the exact same story over and over again, unless it was almost Shakespearean on the level of Kenneth Branagh in Henry V (

) and this is not that. A persistent MMORPG NEEDS replayability to survive. BW discovered this themselves upon the launch of this game and they lacked it even with 8 UNIQUE class stories. This time around we have a thus far less than engaging SINGLE story (though it has its moments) and no game play to fill the gap.

 

2012 revisited?

 

Nop, game faile BECAUSE of grind you propose to be brougth in again.

 

In fact your whole discussion is 2010-2012, where theyve gone YOUR way and look what happened.

 

They had to nerf game COUNTLESS times since launch, and ONLY 12x xp showed how wrong they were on putting WoW like grind in the game. Of course, many people were thoroughly opposed to 12x xp (just like they are today)

Edited November 10, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Swissbob]

Actually people saying that it is to easy are admitting they are to stupid to learn. There is this thing called experience.

 

[....]

 

There may be a few that might understand that as you play games over the years you have understanding of how games work. Some probably won't. Their still fixated on trying to push their agenda. They can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Some of you please don't try that at home. I don't want to see anyone injure themselves.

 

Yeah .... you missed the whole point.

 

My amount of "experience" between the last days of 3.3 and 4.0 did not change at all, and yet I felt it was much easier in 4.0. Interesting.... hmmm it's almost as if my amount of "experience" isn't the issue here.

 

Also, people have testified to letting their 2-5 year old kids play (with absolutely 0 "experience") and beating bosses easily. In fact, I've beaten bosses without even pushing a button. I just watch my companions beat the game for me. Did my level of "experience" allow me to win without even pushing a button. In 3.3, if I didn't press a button I would die. Now, mere days later with 4.0, I win with 95% health without pressing a button. Oh yeah it's clearly just "experience" that is the issue here.

 

You're out here namecalling others as stupid etc., and yet you are one of the least productive posters on this thread, missing the point of really the entire discussion that is taking place.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Swissbob

[Ghisallo]

Nop, game faile BECAUSE of grind you propose to be brougth in again.

 

In fact your whole discussion is 2010-2012, where theyve gone YOUR way and look what happened.

 

I speak of what BW said was their failure. Google "Bioware GDC 2013." BW did a rather frank presentation as to why they failed. That is a Game Designers Conference, not something to pander to players. At this conference they admitte a large issue was the fact they had little to no "elder game."

 

The thing is this...with a persistent MMORPG. They have actually done studies, psychologists and the like. games of this sort NEED a grind to survive. The whole Pavlovian thing. The ding of the level rise, the ding of the coin or gear drop. You need that carrot on the stick of a game like this because it is simply impossible, in the PvE environment, to generate enough "fresh" content to keep people playing. They need something to make them do the content over and over again. The trick is in disguising the grind so that we only feel the "ding", that endorphin rush that led to the terms "Evercrack" and "internet Widows"

 

The problem is this. Every person is different. What makes one game work may not work for you as a person. Sometimes we confuse what we enjoy, and thus what is "good" for us, with what is "good" for a game with a specific mechanics design and financial model.

 

Example... when I played CoD a lot I only played it on custom servers that were defined as "tactical realism". This meant that there were Mods in "god" mode. Sprint and gunning, bunny hopping and gunning, circle strafing were "illegal" and would get you kicked because these methods, while they can work in a video game, get you killed irl. If these servers did not exist I would not have played because I played CoD to be a simulator for what I remembered from my rl military service.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

Actually people saying that it is to easy are admitting they are to stupid to learn. There is this thing called experience. If I am using too big of words let me know. So much easier teaching developmentally disabled. They had higher cognitive skills.

Here try reading this

Experience

 

the process of doing and seeing things and of having things happen to you

 

: skill or knowledge that you get by doing something

 

: the length of time that you have spent doing something (such as a particular job)

 

There may be a few that might understand that as you play games over the years you have understanding of how games work. Some probably won't. Their still fixated on trying to push their agenda. They can't walk and chew gum at the same time. Some of you please don't try that at home. I don't want to see anyone injure themselves.

 

 

It's beyond that. Beyond the fact that your companion can indeed win the battle for you (I tested that...was in the middle of a fight, wife called, she > game, came back all mobs dead) even without a comp I have hit 2 buttons, sometimes only one. mobs dead. We have people having their 5 year olds hop in front of the monitor and win. This is a rated T for teen game right?

[Uruare]

Yeah .... you missed the whole point.

 

My amount of "experience" between the last days of 3.3 and 4.0 did not change at all, and yet I felt it was much easier in 4.0. Interesting.... hmmm it's almost as if my amount of "experience" isn't the issue here.

 

Also, people have testified to letting their 2-5 year old kids play (with absolutely 0 "experience") and beating bosses easily. In fact, I've beaten bosses without even pushing a button. I just watch my companions beat the game for me. Did my level of "experience" allow me to win without even pushing a button. No.... it's because the game is too easy.

 

You're out here namecalling others as stupid etc., and yet you are one of the least productive posters on this thread, missing the point of really the entire discussion that is taking place.

 

And if you believe everything people say about what their allegedly 2-5 year old children do, I'll sell you this magic bean cheap, only used once, virtually no risk of giants.

 

Fact is, they did make a lot if things easier. I don't think anyone can reasonably dispute this unless they just like being wrong.

 

What I'm not so sure about is that that's going to be a problem going forward.

 

Personally, I'm all for optional difficulty settings, but that's probably about as likely to come our way as is pie mailed straight to our homes, with love, from Bioware.

 

Probably not happening.

 

They'll probably tweak things according to whatever screwball metrics they keep, and it'll almost certainly be iterative and incremental. I doubt were going to see dramatic fiddling around with difficulty levels in the core game or even with companions until at least, at -least-, the next major content release.

 

And quite possibly even not then. This new direction looks very much like they're all in on it.

 

Find your challenge where you can if it's so important to you. Where it's not anymore and never much was in the first place probably isn't going to ever dramatically rank up in difficulty by anyone's idea of difficult.

 

Just isn't what they're clearly doing here. Not even a little.

 

Will it work out? I dunno.

 

But just as nobody reasonable can debt that it's been made easier in general, nobody reasonable can deny that what they've just changed dramatically is not going to be merely reverted or dramatically retuned again any time soon.