Mass credit card fraud on the GTN

[SquareRoot]

So how many of these people are you reporting a day? Everyone that undercuts you that isn't using a name you can spell? Because, quite frankly, I'm coming away with the impression that there's more to this than a PSA about a potential problem. It sure seems like you're awfully irate that people aren't buying your stuff.

 

Does this seem like something that should require a tin foil hat? Welcome to my world. You see, if you simply reported them and moved on, most wouldn't even give you a second look. But instead, you not only come here with your "PSA", but then vehemently attack anyone that says anything against it, including people that have listed that some of these "suspect" listings are their own. Sorry you're overpricing your stuff.

 

lol you got it all wrong... I actually enjoy their lower prices on a daily basis. Hypercrates for 4.5m? Yes please

 

 

the point is that you people are obviously either completely ignorant, totally naive, or just want to white knight for your own egos.

 

99% is mostly the latter.

 

I don't report them anymore, it's pointless at this stage.

 

btw I hardly EVER sell anything on the GTN anyway ... I am more of a collector...so, who is making the assumptions here again?

Edited November 7, 2015 by SquareRoot

[clearsighted]

As someone already said..

 

Yes. This is credit card fraud. Bioware usually catches them within a couple days. Some people make a living in game hovering over the GTN and waiting for the fraud stuff to appears before buying it and reselling it.

 

And yes, they get the credit card numbers from those who respond to the credit card spam and purchase credits from them.

 

And yes, it's about 4-5 guys - probably Chinese or Russians - who do most of it. It seems like a huge network of people, but 90% of it is done by a very few guys make extensive use of botting as well.

 

Sometimes, they will even pretend to be 'legit' credit sellers (although there's no such thing) to conduct fraud without them being directly blamed for it.

 

A lot of people don't report it when they get ripped off, precisely because of the fact they were buying credits to begin with.

Edited November 7, 2015 by clearsighted

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Of course the fanboy army comes running defending this credit card fraud because they think I'm saying something bad about the game. You want proof? Add them to your friends list if you can catch them online or type their name. They will be a low level character and they will log on/off every so often all day to undercut. After a while you will never see them again because Bioware eventually bans them. They then make new accounts with long accent gibberish names and repeat so they are always there. It is pretty much common sense. Also players that make names with accents look nothing at all with how the frauders do it. The face that people who have no idea what is going on will come here and defend it is sickening.

 

You don't use bank/GTN characters to store and sell your stuff? Weird.

[Deyjarl]

How would anyone in this thread know for a fact that credit card fraud is involved?

 

You can read up on interviews with people in the business. Besides research papers etc on the phenomenon of RMT.

 

I have to wonder why you are so bent to deny they exist and are a problem?

 

BW, here is either one of your RMT buyers, or suppliers

[Deyjarl]

the point is that you people are obviously either completely ignorant, totally naive, or just want to white knight for your own egos.

 

Or are people that use RMT and don't want BW to take action.

[sentientomega]

I thought the OP was just complaining because they were getting undercut, what is the real issue with this whole credit card fraud and the GTN? As I understand it, you're trying to see stuff and make a profit; to make it sell faster, you sell at a cheaper price.

 

And, I have to say, I've not noticed any crazily-named players selling cheap stuff on the GTN.

 

What's the big deal? Is there something more sinister going besides credit selling spam bots in general chat and our ingame mail?

Edited November 7, 2015 by sentientomega

[DarthMaulUK]

I thought the OP was just complaining because they were getting undercut, what is the real issue with this whole credit card fraud and the GTN? As I understand it, you're trying to see stuff and make a profit; to make it sell faster, you sell at a cheaper price.

 

And, I have to say, I've not noticed any crazily-named players selling cheap stuff on the GTN.

 

What's the big deal? Is there something more sinister going besides credit selling spam bots in general chat and our ingame mail?

 

Open your eyes and actually read what the OP has said. If you don't think its strange that a name with lots of 'accents' on the letters isn't strange and that they are selling 20x cartel packs for a rock bottom price, I think you need to do some more research before adding zero to the debate.

[thewitchdoctor]

Or are people that ... don't want BW to take action.

 

So, please tell me. What action should Bioware take?

 

Here you go, here's your scenario:

 

Character 'Qwedfrtghytrgfh' is selling a hypercrate for 4.5million credits on Shadowlands. That price is presently 750,000 credits lower than the second lowest-priced hypercrate. The character only logs in to the game once per day to collect mail, list new GTN auctions and relist expired GTN auctions.

 

What is Bioware supposed to do?

[Deyjarl]

So, please tell me. What action should Bioware take?

 

What is Bioware supposed to do?

 

Investigate if they have ties to RMT, and if it does, ban the account.

 

I note you make a scenario the is so weighted and one sided to attempt to make me say do nothing... you that desperate to keep the RMT around?

[bahramnima]

i bought hypercrate for 4 million just 2 months ago i can not say whether it was whale who was selling it or one of those cheaters but considering hypercrate cost around 50 euro i myself would not sell it under at least 8 million.

[DarthMaulUK]

i bought hypercrate for 4 million just 2 months ago i can not say whether it was whale who was selling it or one of those cheaters but considering hypercrate cost around 50 euro i myself would not sell it under at least 8 million.

 

exactly it. Why on earth would you sell something deemed of value for such a small amount? Under cutting by 1-100k is common place for these packs, but my 2-3 million just doesn't make sense.

 

To buy something that costs £24 then sell it for £12 make's no sense at all.

[Icestar]

So, please tell me. What action should Bioware take?

 

I think they can flag the account for a more close investigation, perhaps check where the resources come from.

[thewitchdoctor]

Investigate if they have ties to RMT, and if it does, ban the account.

 

I note you make a scenario the is so weighted and one sided to attempt to make me say do nothing... you that desperate to keep the RMT around?

 

Uhm, that is *all* you know of what you see on the GTN.

 

That's it. The rest is speculation.

 

You *assume* they are RMT. You *assume* Bioware doesn't do anything if told a compromised account has been used to buy their product. But you *know* nothing.

 

And that was the point of my 'one-sided' scenario.

 

So, do you have something beyond speculation?

[thewitchdoctor]

I think they can flag the account for a more close investigation, perhaps check where the resources come from.

 

Why should they? This is a serious question. Why should they?

 

Alll we have for proof of wrongdoing is listing low and brief periods of in-game activity.

 

What is the standard for Bioware to take action? Do they hold an account inactive while they investigate? And what do they investigate? Do they take your credit card number and call the credit card issuer to see if it is stolen? Is that a violation of your privacy? Which employees get to see all those credit card numbers? What if it isn't the player's card being used but a spouse, partner or parent's?

 

My point is: I don't think this is as easy as some people make out.

Edited November 7, 2015 by thewitchdoctor

[AlrikFassbauer]

exactly it. Why on earth would you sell something deemed of value for such a small amount?

 

Because people with less credit can't afford it ?

 

 

As I said before, the WHOLE GTN is evolviong and revolving around and towards those who have LOTS of credits. Not poorer ones. Of course not. What would be the logic to sell something to a poor person ?

 

And this is typical american money-making thinking to me. Take from the poor and sell to the riches !

 

In the 80s, The Alan Parsons Project made an album called "Vulture Culture". It was decribing exactly this market mechanis, in its title track.

 

 

And, besides, selling for LOTS of Credits creates DEMAND for GETTING Credits - so you are unwillingly even HELPING those Credit sellers by demanding LOTS of money for items !

Edited November 7, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[sentientomega]

exactly it. Why on earth would you sell something deemed of value for such a small amount? Under cutting by 1-100k is common place for these packs, but my 2-3 million just doesn't make sense.

 

To buy something that costs £24 then sell it for £12 make's no sense at all.

 

It does if you want a quick sale, and we're not valuing credits in terms of real currency, are we? Unless...

 

I think BW:A should advertise credit booms/explosions on the CM, personally, and make them BoP, I've seen them selling on the GTN for far above anything they yield. Then credits would have a fully-dev-authorised real currency value, not that it's difficult to make or grind credits, but being able to directly buy, for CCs, credit booms/explosions would help BW:A's cause, I think.

 

My point is: I don't think this is as easy as some people make out.

 

Exactly, it needs a lot more than appearing to be suspicious; and, conveniently, it only appears to be suspicious because the GTN competition's making accusations. I've had low-price listings, and characters who've not gotten a whole lot of activity, apparently, to the OP and their cohorts, this means I'm a master criminal.

Edited November 7, 2015 by sentientomega

[Tharenisis]

EDIT: Of course the fanboy army comes running defending this credit card fraud because they think I'm saying something bad about the game. You want proof? Add them to your friends list if you can catch them online or type their name. They will be a low level character and they will log on/off every so often all day to undercut. After a while you will never see them again because Bioware eventually bans them. They then make new accounts with long accent gibberish names and repeat so they are always there. It is pretty much common sense. Also players that make names with accents look nothing at all with how the frauders do it. The fact that people who have no idea what is going on will come here and defend it is sickening.

 

That was one heck of a stretch to attack the "fanboys" don't you think. Listen I get you guys have some issues with new additions or lack there of to the game at the moment, but you don't need to make every topic here Doomsayer vs. Fanboy or a sky is falling post, it's rather immature.

 

This FANBOY agrees that this COULD be a serious problem, and I really wish that Bioware would put more focus on busting spammers, credit sellers, exploiters and so forth if this is indeed whats going on. If you believe the talk that was happening that chair exploit a while back could of completely ruined the economy and was some serious business. If a simple chair exploit can do this i'm not sure why there isn't more of a spotlight on actual fraud and scamming within the game.

 

Clearing up the markets would go a long way, and I personally think BW should have more of a focus in game on people who ruin the economy through credit buying/selling/CM abuse/Fraud/wampa poaching.

 

Next time you want to try to get a strike in at the Fanboy's though, perhaps just keep it to yourself because all you did here was make yourself look bad.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Tharenisis

[rafter]

The minute someone starts ranting about "fanboys" is when I tune them out. If you can't make your point without resorting to tired *** "they don't agree with me so they are fanboys" drivel is the minute your argument holds no water.

 

And Op, don't be stupid. If the people who are arguing with you were actually fanboys they'd be the first to being yelling about fraud. After all a fanboy does everything they can to defend their game. BTW, even if it is fraud what, exactly, do you expect people in this forum to do? If you are intelligent enough to find this problem you are probably intelligent enough to use the proper channels to report it and this certainly isn't it. Maybe it is fraud or maybe you're just upset about being undercut, who knows, but either way this isn't the place to complain about it.

[Blarrg]

I currently have almost 100 level 60 tokens in stock, not so many BH contracts because I sold hundreds a couple weeks ago during the event and I dont have any hypercrates currently. However I do have more than 30 Reven Holostatues and probably a hundred Satel Shan ones, Black/black and white/white dyes up the wazoo

 

and

 

due to the fact that I am going f2p in a week (if I play at all)i have ridiculous amounts of unlocks and am selling off my gear and getting out of the game. Its been fun but isnt any longer.

 

 

Why sell it? You should donate it. I'd be happy to take some of those tokens off your hands.

[Theeko]

I play harb and check prices a couple of times daily and never really see anything even close to what you are suggesting in price cuts.

 

You get the occasional one but nothing en masse like you're implying.

 

In the past usually but not as much anymore because I think EA's catching on there have been infinite amounts of pages of hypercrates mostly, and for 40-50% less than the lowest price.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

In the past usually but not as much anymore because I think EA's catching on there have been infinite amounts of pages of hypercrates mostly, and for 40-50% less than the lowest price.

 

Again I've been doing what I do for about 2 years now so I honestly think you're making things up now.

 

Occasionally I might see an undercut for 1-2 mill below average price which I quickly snap up but I never see pages of them or some user with a strange name doing it ( see a bunch of them right now selling gold packs but they are over priced imo, not under priced ).

 

Funnily enough the hypercrate market on Harbinger has almost doubled in price over the past few months from around 4 million for the newest and non embargoed hypercrates to around 7 million now ... yet we have people complaining about them sometimes listing things "too cheap of an undercut"

 

Personally if I paid cash for 10 crates of the new hypercrate right now I'd put em up for 5 mill each if the lowest is 7 mill because I know they used to go for 3-4 at their lowest and at 5 I'm going to sell them super fast and almost guaranteed.

 

Yet someone might cry I must be comminting some sort of fraud simply because I undercut so much?

 

What about CM items then? Are all those people I'm buying up items from say some of the old skiffs for 700K when they eaily sell for 3 mill+, are they also fraudsters? am I fraudster when I buy them for 700K, wait 2 weeks, see the only ones now listed are at 4 mill so I go in at 2.5 mill because I'm happy making almost 300% profit ...

 

Seriouslly how is this even a topic? People complaining about getting things too cheaply? How does ANY of this affect any of you? It doesn't. No markets have been devalued by this practice, inflation is driving prices up not down so noone can say they are getting less credits than they would have months ago.

 

The act of fraud itself would only affect Bioware because they would be the ones possibly liable to refund the money back to the CC companies if it's that sort of fraud. In the end it doesn't affect us either way and if the undercuts are as big as people make out ( I really think people are making most of this up ) who cares? Buy it and be happy.

[Theeko]

I have been reselling ever since the game came out basically, and yes I know what I'm talking about massive dumps of hypercrates in the past on the GTN for about 3m each both on Harbinger and Shadowlands. No sane person would spend that 40$ for 3m in game, btw. Edited November 7, 2015 by Theeko

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I have been reselling ever since the game came out basically, and yes I know what I'm talking about massive dumps of hypercrates in the past on the GTN for about 3m each both on Harbinger and Shadowlands. No sane person would spend that 40$ for 3m in game, btw.

 

Cool story bro.

[Barleron]

I look at this thread cause of the title and find the whole thing very misleading to the point I feel like reporting the thread!

 

I was half expecting something related to ACTUAL credit card fraud, but all I find is conjecture and a severe lack of proof actual credit card fraud is happening... i.e. someone stealing your financial details, address details, security number then applying for and using a credit card with the stolen details.

 

This ^^^

 

OP has a fundamental misunderstanding of credit card fraud. I would find it incredibly unlikely that there is a criminal organization out there that is using fraudulent credit cards to buy cartel items for in game profit. The suggestion is ludicrous. Criminals involved in credit card fraud are looking for REAL $$, not SWTOR credits...

 

Legal use of one's on credit card or debit card to make in game credits is, well... legal, although imo ill-advised -- surely there are better uses for your real $$ (or credit) than controlling an rpg(mmo optional) game's economy

[thewitchdoctor]

OP has a fundamental misunderstanding of credit card fraud.

 

As well as a fundamental misunderstanding of what Bioware could (let alone should [or specifically, should not]) do.