BioWare: take the feedback for once and increase difficulty going forward

[Thunderstriken]

For some people Fun= challenge . Some like mental stimulation and suggestions most say revolve around " well just dont use it companions " " Dont go gear up "" Run around naked ". All of these are ridiculous mmos hell rpgs in general are suppose to be about building your character up to be awesome and taking on game made challenges. Not breaking both your legs, to make everything challenging. Really though from what I hear the game has been dumbing down for years. Its at the point where its not about the game being challenging or not. Its about the game practically playing itself! You literally can just send your companion in, and he will kill everything. This is ridiculous and should not be defended I mean when do we say enough is a ****in enough ?

 

Coloring in quote added by me for emphasis. You are right, except the single player story line crap is the "building your character up" part and playing with other players in flashpoints and operations is the "game made challenges" part. The only challenge that existed in the past with regard to single player RPG was in your mind.

[Mikahrone]

There has never really been any challenge in single player RPG fights, there certainly has never been any in the history of SWTOR. Single player fights can take longer, but the end result is the same, any player with a pulse wins every time. There's no depth to a single player fight, it's one dimensional. Especially in WoW clones with their super slow combat movement that discourages and mitigates defensive maneuvering.

 

The single player fights in today's SWTOR are no different that those of days gone by with the exception of how fast they are over. If you want the exact same play experience as before, simply count to 10 after each skirmish, 20 if you are a bad.

 

Youre somewhat right, but that extends to ANY encounter in WoW like scripted game. "Single player" is meaningless because "multi player" is same game with same mechanics. the only challenge in these games exists only in your mind.

 

The ONLY actual hint of challenge is PvP, but, because its gear based hugely imbalanced game in nature, its vastly diminished unless you have mirror match.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[dharh]

Just give us the ability to set how difficult we want things. We have NM/HM flashpoints. Now give us HM heroics, give us HM story. Additionally give us the ability customize how good or bad our companion is, outside of just telling us not to increase their influence.

 

I certainly understand if they want or feel the need to tweak companions for balance but I don't think they necessarily need to nerf them. I would rather they give us all the tools so we can experience the game the way we want to.

[MiguelGx]

/signed

 

Difficulty right now is laughable, my 5 year old nephew could solo the Kotfe expansion

[PulseRazor]

Am I really that AWESOME at this game that I am in a MINORITY of people who think its too easy? I somehow don't think so.

 

While I am not as opposed to the OP companions as I once was, since they enable me to solo Heroic flashpoints, there are still some problems I see, even if thy don't apply to me directly.

 

While I was doing Heroic weekly world content to farm my alliance crates I realized that instead of competing with other players or waiting in an imaginary line to collect 10 bear asses that I could just 'tag' everything in the zone and kill it all at the same time, everyone else could be damned and wait their rightful place in line: behind me. Its good to be awesome, I guess. - I'm not sure that is good for the game, but it works for me.

 

For all our lamentations, there is a bit of truth to the idea that those of us complaining about the content being too easy are a bit 'elitest' - if not outright elite. Just sit in Odessa and watch the unending number of people trying to group for the 'normal' Star Fortress', while some of us just solo them on heroic. I am not buying the idea that these people just want to be social, (since they almost always don't have the social achievements, yes I check) the common player just doesn't feel that the content is as easy as I, or other detractors to the new companion system do.

 

Since I have no chance of dying unless I am in group content without my godly companion, I have been playing without my HUD, flytext or nameplates. it looks amazing, and is a lot more immersive then watching cooldowns, staring at a minimap, and watching text. If you think the game is too easy, try that. - I wish we could remove target nameplates though.

[ReverendAnderson]

For sure. Even if they don't buff the difficulty that much, at LEAST give us the ability to adjust the challenge somehow (without having to turn off/ruin important elements of the game).

[Fuzzionlol]

Am I really that AWESOME at this game that I am in a MINORITY of people who think its too easy?

 

No, everyone think it's easy. People want a story game. Playing against scripts is not hard.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Fuzzionlol

[heythereqt]

And by saying "This this and more this", to the above post, I assumed you agreed with it.... thus not wanting the game to change, not wanting us to talk about it on the forums and instead leave if we don't like it.

 

You can see how I arrived at the conclusion you thought the same thing as the poster when you said "this" to what he said.

 

I can see how you came to that conclusion, but nowhere did I mention directly wanting people to leave. Just a misunderstanding I guess. People have every right to voice their opinion on the forums. But when that opinion turns into endless whining and bickering (not talking about you here, btw), and "I want this, give me this, now"...maybe its time for some people to look for another game that will cater to their needs.

 

Yeah, why should paying customers feel entitled to leave if the game if their interests aren't met and the game isn't fun for them? They should keep paying their hard earned money on a game that isn't fun for them because their interests are in the minority, the ungrateful, self-entitled scum!

 

You completely exaggerated here, but honestly that's the exact point I was trying to make. I don't want anyone to leave, I hope many people stay subbed for future content. But if a person doesn't like where the game is going, then they should look for a new one...as opposed to running over to the forums, crying about how horrible the game is (in their opinion) and demanding that the devs immediately cater to their (the minority) needs, as opposed to actually doing what's best for the game. The storyline and leveling content in this game has never been challenging. I always had my characters and companions in the best gear available for my level, and I always had as much presence on my toons as possible. The game is no less challenging for me than it used to be...its just more streamlined now. Combat is more fast-paced, and I'm thankful for that.

 

Again, I don't want anyone to leave the game. I'm just not a fan of people purposefully starting controversial topics on the forum just to complain and demand that the devs cater to their needs. Doing that is a prime example of self-entitlement.

[IAAIAO]

You are not a minority. Challenge is a must to most of us. The casual are a minority in mmorpg.

[Mikahrone]

You are not a minority. Challenge is a must to most of us. The casual are a minority in mmorpg.

 

And thats why every MMO is hardcore as it can be and ramps up difficulty instead making it easier and forced grouping is not thing of the past.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Jadescythe]

aaaaand thats why your rants are worthless.

 

This contributed literally nothing. You clearly just want your way as opposed to discussing what could change as I expected from your posts so far.

[Mikahrone]

This contributed literally nothing. You clearly just want your way as opposed to discussing what could change as I expected from your posts so far.

 

I responded appropriately to ranting. You get response that match the substance, its not my falut your unhappy with it.

[Jadescythe]

I responded appropriately to ranting. You get response that match the substance, its not my falut your unhappy with it.

 

Literally your only suggestion has been to play the game in unintended ways to create a challenge. Why would you ask your playerbase to change your game for you as a developer when you can easily change it yourself? Sure, if it was 2% of players unhappy, you wouldn't spend time finding a resolution. But based on forum contributions it certainly seems to be a significant portion of players looking for more from the story content.

 

Not to mention turning off companion abilities, dismissing companions entirely, or wearing worse gear doesn't create challenging content. It only makes killing enemies take longer or requires you to regen more often between fights. As almost everyone has noted, no one wants to grind trash mobs or spend more time healing between fights, they just want the fights to stimulate them during gameplay and contribute to the story they are a part of. For all I care, they can auto restore your full health and mana resource upon exiting combat if that's why people complain about trash.

[crimsiden]

Coloring in quote added by me for emphasis. You are right, except the single player story line crap is the "building your character up" part and playing with other players in flashpoints and operations is the "game made challenges" part. The only challenge that existed in the past with regard to single player RPG was in your mind.

 

Thats were we have our big disagreement and where it comes down to opinion . In my opinion building up USED to be the side quests/ story quests leading up to the main fight, the main fight wont spoiler it with an example but you know usually the final quest of the planet or even the chapter used to be the challenge. That is now gone. The story builds up to prepare you for some big fight and your companion 3 shots him. Now the whole story is suppose to be the build up while the instances are the game made challenge. The problem with this formula player has to endure at least 30 plus hours of mind numbingly easy content before he receives any challenge or mental stimulation and even then those challenges are group related not for the individual. I feel the old formula was better because while it was not Dark souls hard, the bosses at least didn't feel like a regular mob and the story contained single player challenges. We need to go back to that.

[VanorDM]

The casual are a minority in mmorpg.

 

Wow, that's the funniest thing I've seen all week. The fact that you are likely serious is the saddest.

Edited November 4, 2015 by VanorDM

[Mikahrone]

Thats were we have our big disagreement and where it comes down to opinion . In my opinion building up USED to be the side quests/ story quests leading up to the main fight, the main fight wont spoiler it with an example but you know usually the final quest of the planet or even the chapter used to be the challenge. That is now gone. The story builds up to prepare you for some big fight and your companion 3 shots him. Now the whole story is suppose to be the build up while the instances are the game made challenge. The problem with this formula player has to endure at least 30 plus hours of mind numbingly easy content before he receives any challenge or mental stimulation and even then those challenges are group related not for the individual. I feel the old formula was better because while it was not Dark souls hard, the bosses at least didn't feel like a regular mob and the story contained single player challenges. We need to go back to that.

 

I would like you to ask Bioware on which setting people played their single player games most.

 

You may think that they dont have the data and that they dont use it, but they do as they said explicitly they use it.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Mikahrone]

Literally your only suggestion has been to play the game in unintended ways to create a challenge. Why would you ask your playerbase to change your game for you as a developer when you can easily change it yourself? Sure, if it was 2% of players unhappy, you wouldn't spend time finding a resolution. But based on forum contributions it certainly seems to be a significant portion of players looking for more from the story content.

 

Not to mention turning off companion abilities, dismissing companions entirely, or wearing worse gear doesn't create challenging content. It only makes killing enemies take longer or requires you to regen more often between fights. As almost everyone has noted, no one wants to grind trash mobs or spend more time healing between fights, they just want the fights to stimulate them during gameplay and contribute to the story they are a part of. For all I care, they can auto restore your full health and mana resource upon exiting combat if that's why people complain about trash.

 

But thats exactly what youre proposing, buff up mob hp/damage, and then refute yourself that is bollocks. Because guess what? All those "dificulty settings" in single player RPGs do exactly that. More mobs with buffed up stats. But even in those single player RPGs people find their own challenges by using inferior gear and handicapping themselves and whatever they can think of. for FUN and CHALLENGE.

 

And thats exactly why they dont do it any more, they tried, then they had to nerf it all several times etc. etc. The gear/skill disparity with which people play through these is so wide that you cant fine tune it. For what YOU think would be fine 10 others will say its mindnumbingly easy because the happen to play certain OP class with raid gear. So what now?

 

So yeah, i think you finally realized what youre asking for.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Thunderstriken]

Youre somewhat right, but that extends to ANY encounter in WoW like scripted game. "Single player" is meaningless because "multi player" is same game with same mechanics. the only challenge in these games exists only in your mind.

 

The ONLY actual hint of challenge is PvP, but, because its gear based hugely imbalanced game in nature, its vastly diminished unless you have mirror match.

 

You are almost correct about PVE, but dead on about PVP.

 

Chess is a perfect example to illustrate how something can be infinitely more complex than it would appear upon cursory examination. There are only 16 pieces per side and merely 64 squares total, it wouldn't seem to be all that much more complex than Tic Tac Toe, yet even with mind boggling powerful computers, chess is still not solved. By contrast, Tic Tac Toe can be solved by a child.

 

By solved I mean an optimal solution that will result in victory every time. Let that sink in for a second. Chess has not been solved despite computing power beyond comprehension. It took a team of scientists and engineers working with the resources of one of the worlds most powerful tech giants to even come up with a computer algorithm that could beat a grand master.

 

With single player RPG the encounter is extremely limited by the narrow scope of player interaction, much like Tic Tac Toe. There is a simple and obvious solution that will work every time. However, as you start tossing in more players the possibilities expand exponentially! A group of 16 players presents the opportunity to design an encounter with almost limitless possibilities.

 

Obviously it's up to the developers to make full use of the myriad of possibilities, and I've not seen a single MMORPG that has even come close to perfect. That being said, given the wide variety of player ability and gear, with the broad scope of mechanics and mob abilities in raid encounters, I've been party to countless compelling raid fights where player skill was unquestionably the deciding factor in the outcome.

[MaximusRex]

Wut? Are you seriously trying to downplay some one when they want a challenge from a game they play? Also no, alot of people have complained about the lack of difficulty when it comes to this new expansion, stop trying to push it under the rug like it isn't an issue.

 

They have ways to increase the challenge. Turn off some companion abilities, turn off companions, wear worse gear.

 

The real issue is they want to force their playstyle on everyone, then act like they are the ones having an easy playstyle forced on them.

[Jadescythe]

But thats exactly what youre proposing, buff up mob hp/damage, and then refute yourself that is bollocks. Because guess what? All those "dificulty settings" in single player RPGs do exactly that. More mobs with buffed up stats. But even in those single player RPGs people find their own challenges by using inferior gear and handicapping themselves and whatever they can think of. for FUN and CHALLENGE.

 

And thats exactly why they dont do it any more, they tried, then they had to nerf it all several times etc. etc. The gear/skill disparity with which people play through these is so wide that you cant fine tune it. For what YOU think would be fine 10 others will say its mindnumbingly easy because the happen to play certain OP class with raid gear. So what now?

 

So yeah, i think you finally realized what youre asking for.

 

Certainly buffing damage and HP to both extend the encounter and threaten the player would be a part of it. It doesn't have to happen to trash mobs in the game, but there were certainly story encounters that had mechanics previously. I mean, you could add in an ability that needs to be interrupted and it would add challenge. Why have abilities in the game if you don't need them? I'm just looking for encounters that require you to think past your basic attack and simply requiring more basic attacks is NOT what I'm asking for.

[Djiini]

The casual are a minority in mmorpg.

 

I can't express through text how hard I laughed at this.

[VanorDM]

I'm just looking for encounters that require you to think past your basic attack and simply requiring more basic attacks is NOT what I'm asking for.

 

I don't know that I care much one way or the other... But I can say that if the answer is just making the NPC have more HP's and do more damage... Then I absolutely do not want to see anything changed, because that is a lazy way to do it.

 

Now adding special abilities or something you have to interrupt or avoid... That I wouldn't mind much. Those were things I enjoyed about games like TSW or Wildstar.

[Mikahrone]

You are almost correct about PVE, but dead on about PVP.

 

Chess is a perfect example to illustrate how something can be infinitely more complex than it would appear upon cursory examination. There are only 16 pieces per side and merely 64 squares total, it wouldn't seem to be all that much more complex than Tic Tac Toe, yet even with mind boggling powerful computers, chess is still not solved. By contrast, Tic Tac Toe can be solved by a child.

 

By solved I mean an optimal solution that will result in victory every time. Let that sink in for a second. Chess has not been solved despite computing power beyond comprehension. It took a team of scientists and engineers working with the resources of one of the worlds most powerful tech giants to even come up with a computer algorithm that could beat a grand master.

 

With single player RPG the encounter is extremely limited by the narrow scope of player interaction, much like Tic Tac Toe. There is a simple and obvious solution that will work every time. However, as you start tossing in more players the possibilities expand exponentially! A group of 16 players presents the opportunity to design an encounter with almost limitless possibilities.

 

Obviously it's up to the developers to make full use of the myriad of possibilities, and I've not seen a single MMORPG that has even come close to perfect. That being said, given the wide variety of player ability and gear, with the broad scope of mechanics and mob abilities in raid encounters, I've been party to countless compelling raid fights where player skill was unquestionably the deciding factor in the outcome.

 

You cannot ask from single player anything more in multiplayer that you can ask him in single player. Short of changing whole mechanics of how game works, but then you can also do that for single player.

 

The only "challenge" in MMO multiplayer is to find x other players that actully care enough and learn simplistic mechanics. Bossess in WoW like MMOs are scripted, its like playing chess where your opponent makes exact same moves every time, thats why people get bored of it very quickly and "demand new content", and if you make them smart, you may as well play PvP as thats asking opponent to behave intelligent like human.

 

As opposite all that LoL needs is one map and new champion every now and then and balancing acts to fine tune gameplay, yet it beats every "traditional MMO" in number of players while "traditional MMOs" try to pump out content desperately and its NEVER enough lol. So yeah, thats pretty much fundamental flaw of these kind of games.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Mikahrone]

Certainly buffing damage and HP to both extend the encounter and threaten the player would be a part of it. It doesn't have to happen to trash mobs in the game, but there were certainly story encounters that had mechanics previously. I mean, you could add in an ability that needs to be interrupted and it would add challenge. Why have abilities in the game if you don't need them? I'm just looking for encounters that require you to think past your basic attack and simply requiring more basic attacks is NOT what I'm asking for.

 

Im all for challenging solo content, I just dont think STORY is the place for it.

 

If you want to look up Liadri in GW2, and how only small number of players were able to beat it first time around. But that was side content in the event.

 

I actually WANT challenging solo content as that is chronicly missing in MMOs (one legacy of WoW, where Blizzard set it up that "solo=easy/casual" and "group=hard/hardcore" which is just the way Blizzard set it up and in no way some universal truth like people claim), but story/open wrold is not place for that.

[chemithir]

I just wanted to post that I think what Bioware is doing is fine. I mean for the first 60 levels, everything seemed to cater toward the hardcore MMO player. Difficult raids, gear grinds the whole nine. Which i enjoy, don't get me wrong. But now they threw the casual player a bone and we blow a gasket over it like it is the end of MMO's forever. You think it is unfair to you but if everything was your way, isn't that unfair to the casual player? I am just saying.

 

MMO's have struggled with this for years. How to balance between hardcore and casual. It isn't easy and someone always feels slighted in the end.

 

I don't think this is the end for hardcore players but I don't think Bioware is wrong for trying to give something to everyone.