Would you PvP if Expertise was removed?

[JediMasterSarynn]

Yes.

 

Endgame PvE rewards the best 220 or 224 whatever gear available. Endgame PvP does the same thing only with expertise instead.

 

Make them both reward the same stats so they are interchangeable. The only major difference being each one has their own unique look.

 

As someone who does PVP a lot (as well as PVE), that would be unfairly balanced towards PVP. You can get an entire set of PVP gear in a day if you played long enough. Within a week, easily an entire ranked set.

[Pantheros]

Yes.

 

Endgame PvE rewards the best 220 or 224 whatever gear available. Endgame PvP does the same thing only with expertise instead.

 

Make them both reward the same stats so they are interchangeable. The only major difference being each one has their own unique look.

 

Pvp does not reward 224 gear, it rewards 208 gear.

[kjfett]

We have expertise because all the PVE RAIDers QQed; demanding that players that invested many hours of PVP time not be given rewards that were comparable to their own RAID gear.

 

Now, after all that QQing and getting what they want, they have the audacity to ask for it to be removed?!

 

You clearly do not understand the alternative and clearly were not around back when we had no Expertise.

 

Expertise:

 

Allowed the Devs to create gear that was specific to PVP without unbalancing the PVE content

Allowed the Devs to create gear that was specific to PVE without unbalancing the PVP content.

 

/thread

[ScarletBlaze]

No.

 

I do not like pvp so there is really nothing that would get me to pvp.

[Pantheros]

We have expertise because all the PVE RAIDers QQed; demanding that players that invested many hours of PVP time not be given rewards that were comparable to their own RAID gear.

 

Now, after all that QQing and getting what they want, they have the audacity to ask for it to be removed?!

 

You clearly do not understand the alternative and clearly were not around back when we had no Expertise.

 

Expertise:

 

Allowed the Devs to create gear that was specific to PVP without unbalancing the PVE content

Allowed the Devs to create gear that was specific to PVE without unbalancing the PVP content.

 

/thread

 

THANK YOU, this thread is born of collossal ignorance about basic game systems.

[DomiSotto]

(Shrug) I am sorry, I worded it poorly. I still think that creating a perfect bolster is not as simple as folks are trying to present it.

 

I also believe that anyone willing can assemble a decently bolstered set of gear quite easily. I do not gear out/augment the toons I am testing out, only the ones that I consider using in long-term. Same goes for PvE. I see PvE gear set as by far harder to understand the design for and to acquire. And even that now is fairly trivial.

 

In all honesty, serious PvErs will shrug and gear up in a blink. A friend of mine, a NiM raider, once said they used to go and farm the farming premades. I laughed, then I thought, well, it makes sense. Those guys have discipline to rerun the boss for hours until they get it just right....

 

There are so many ways of making your character viable, that it feels unproductive to even worry about it. The current system might not be the best, but it is easily workable, and Bio has lots of things on its plate.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[DomiSotto]

Literally everyone is going to have the same expertise, easily within a week. The cap is 1936, which is only a 1-2% difference from 2018 (only difference is expertise color crystals) and it costs something like 3125 comms which is extremely cheap. Essentially it prevents people with pve gear coming into pvp with god 224 gear and having a much larger stat budget than most other people.

 

Actually, to go from 1936 to 2018 all you need is to buy MH/OH with the crystal. That's almost immediate full expertise.

[LordArtemis]

There is a way to improve the PVP experience for those that currently participate in PVP.

 

There is also a way to increase overall participation in PVP dramatically (IMO on both of course).

 

Both methods are diametrically opposed to each other. Doing one would likely hurt the other.

 

IMO if you want to increase participation in any meaningful way with this playerbase you have to do so at the expense of the desires of current PVP players.

[Jadescythe]

(Shrug) I am sorry, I worded it poorly. I still think that creating a perfect bolster is not as simple as folks are trying to present it.

 

It could easily be fixed with a standard bolster. You have two gear tiers currently and each modification item has roughly 2-3 stat difference from the next tier. Bolster would be a third set 2-3 stats per modification lower than the bottom tier PvP gear. If the item in your slot has 0 expertise, you get these stats. If it has 1+ expertise, then you receive no bolster. The secondary and tertiary stats would be based on your discipline's role (tank, DPS, heals).

 

Now PvP gear is always BiS, you can PvP in whatever PvE gear you want with no downside, and it's an easy adjustment to make when a new tier of gear is made.

[DomiSotto]

I do not see consensus on what the best secondary/tertiary is right now for each spec. I have a bad feeling that tweaking the bolster Down and Up might have unintended consequences. At the very least it should go on open PTS.

 

In the end of the day, I do not think that gearing is the root cause of folks not playing PvP. I mean, I took one look at GSF, and I knew it was not something I would do. I suspect that most folks are like that with PvP. They try it, and if they like it, they play it.

 

I also do not see the pop as a problem in regs atm, if you play an Imperial toon.

 

You will always need two sets of gear, as the PvP and PvE stats distribution is different.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Jadescythe]

I do not see consensus on what the best secondary/tertiary is right now for each spec. I have a bad feeling that tweaking the bolster Down and Up might have unintended consequences. At the very least it should go on open PTS.

 

In the end of the day, I do not think that gearing is the root cause of folks not playing PvP. I mean, I took one look at GSF, and I knew it was not something I would do. I suspect that most folks are like that with PvP. They try it, and if they like it, they play it.

 

I also do not see the pop as a problem in regs atm, if you play an Imperial toon.

 

You will always need two sets of gear, as the PvP and PvE stats distribution is different.

 

Players who want to PvP frequently already do and don't care about expertise. But for the players who just log in and do whatever once or twice a week, they aren't paying attention to gear. If they decide to do a flashpoint one day, they can go in with whatever they have on. And they will end up with 208 or higher gear. Literally anything outside of the story expansion is over the bolster line now, and it really turns prospective PvPers off to the game mode when they have literally no chance at 1700 expertise in their first attempt.

[Mahrdol]

In the old day before expertise you could buy Champion PvP gear. That gear was excellent beginner raid gear so they nerfed it. A bunch of people including myself used champion gear for the high level flash points.

[g_land]

Dirty secret about war zone pvp, if you buy 208 gear or less with basic comms then you will be playing skill vs skill. Minor difference will be set bonuses. Expertise only truly makes a difference in open world.

[Atalantia]

Wasn't there a period of the game when Bolster gave everyone 2018 Experience before 3.0?

 

I remember reading thread s about the PVP community griping about the bolster and what it was doing

 

@Mahrdol when the game released in the capitol city's where we buy lvl 20-50 gear (if thats still there habent looked lately)

 

They had a starter set of blue pvp gear that could be purchased before one got to lvl 50 it was removed like in the second or third patch after release

 

They should allow you to purchase the 65 gear before reaching 65 imho

Edited November 2, 2015 by Atalantia

[KalebGrayson]

Basically anyone who says yes I want expertise removed fundamentally misunderstans it's purpose. All it does is put everyone on equal footing. Literally everyone is going to have the same expertise, easily within a week. The cap is 1936, which is only a 1-2% difference from 2018 (only difference is expertise color crystals) and it costs something like 3125 comms which is extremely cheap. Essentially it prevents people with pve gear coming into pvp with god 224 gear and having a much larger stat budget than most other people.

 

EXPERTISE EVENS THE FIELD IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

 

Now that that is out of the way, expertise does need a rebalance, healing is far to strong right now and it's leading to stagnation.

 

I do not agree. Lets take an example. My wife has 3 Masters Degrees. She makes 6 figures in her job. She plays this game with me so we can spend time together. She has NO interest in PVP in a game, she has enough PVP in the real world. She does like the in game PVE, however, and she wants Pierce. She has to PVP to get Pierce. She has no PVP gear and has no desire to get it. She only wants to participate in whatever number of matches gets her Pierce.

 

Expertise gives everyone else in the match that has the 2018 55% more damage and 32% more damage reduction. Not even the best PVP'er skill wise can beat a capped 2018 expertise player in my opinion. Even if they could, why not have everyone on a level playing field? Like all sports, let skill decide the match, not gear.

[Mubrak]

Do we actually still need Expertise?

Set WZs to level 60 and let level sync solve the raid-gear dilemma?

Edited November 2, 2015 by Mubrak

[Neoforcer]

No because BW way of balancing pve gear would give the pvers a advantage over some one that pvps all the time. Raid gear should never be better then earned pvp gear. MMO that try this all fail were guild wars now?

[DomiSotto]

But for the players who just log in and do whatever once or twice a week, they aren't paying attention to gear. If they decide to do a flashpoint one day, they can go in with whatever they have on. And they will end up with 208 or higher gear.

 

Free 60's will have an 188 set. 190 gear is cheap as dirt. The old alts would have a 190 or 186 set. There is no reason for anyone, new or old, returning or just setting out to not have a set of gear that will bolster.

 

I just started a new legacy on a different server. My free 60 is the only 60 I have. And when I look at her, the only thing that she can do is actually PvP. Because it was set to a DPS, so her gear is not going to work to heal an Op, but I can get a bonus set in a jiffy through PvP. Then I can go heal an op with the GF bolster.

 

And from what I hear about the Flashpoints, I am not pugging one until I have a full 216 bonus set on me. It sounds like you need all gear you can get for them.

 

If all else fails, get a char to 25 or so through a few planets and get 5000 comms for your level 65's T1.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[KalebGrayson]

The Gree event with no PVP gear.../shudder.

[DogMeat]

Fully geared I am, so /YES

[Jadescythe]

Free 60's will have an 188 set. 190 gear is cheap as dirt. The old alts would have a 190 or 186 set. There is no reason for anyone, new or old, returning or just setting out to not have a set of gear that will bolster.

 

I just started a new legacy on a different server. My free 60 is the only 60 I have. And when I look at her, the only thing that she can do is actually PvP. Because it was set to a DPS, so her gear is not going to work to heal an Op, but I can get a bonus set in a jiffy through PvP. Then I can go heal an op with the GF bolster.

 

If all else fails, get a char to 25 or so through a few planets and get 5000 comms for your level 65's T1.

 

Why should it be necessary to obtain a a set of gear that you have no intention of using just so you can start getting another set of gear? People starting out don't need min/maxed gear, just 2018 expertise with similar stats to what the stock PvP gear offers. That can easily be accomplished by a working bolster system that stops trying to normalize your super high PvE stats into terrible PvP stats.

 

Most of the time, players already have a negative experience in their gear that doesn't bolster properly before they find out they need that other set and the damage is already done. BW needs to stop pretending that the bolster given to gear over 190 is helping players and start reducing their stats and still giving 2018 expertise.

[DomiSotto]

It's the same in PvE.

 

You don't jump right into a bonus set. Instead you have 3(!) iterations of comm sets.

 

And you can easily bypass even that hurdle in PvP by PvPing on the lower levels on any other character and jump straight into a bonus set. You cannot do that in PvE

 

No matter how you slice or dice it, gearing in PvP is by far easier, fairer and faster than in PvE.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DomiSotto

[Jadescythe]

It's the same in PvE.

 

You don't jump right into a bonus set. Instead you have 2 iterations of comm sets.

 

And you can easily bypass even that hurdle in PvP by PvPing on the lower levels on any other character and jump straight into a bonus set. You cannot do that in PvE.

 

This isn't quite the same and is no longer true whatsoever. Everything in PvE is bolstered outside of HM ops. All you need is something in every slot to do SM ops to get gear for HM ops. And the only reason that system wasn't in place before was to create a gear progression where you need the gear from X to do Y. PvP isn't like that and the tiered gear system is fairly ridiculous in that aspect. The opponents aren't changing in difficulty, so I don't know why there is a progression in gear.

[TUXs]

You: I want to do X.

Me: Cool, here's the best way to do that.

You: F' that man, me no wanna. qq.

Not even close....

 

You: "You should PvP with us"

Me: "OK, I've never done it before..."

You: "Great, grab some gear from when you were level 60"

Me: "Huh?"

 

Why on earth would anyone assume they should wear anything but their best available gear? How does that make ANY sense to you??? It doesn't...it's the most moronic thing ever. If I was to PvE for the first time, what would you do if I ran in my Advanced War Hero PvP gear? Bolster punishes rational thought.

Pretty sure Tux is in full PvP gear. But the concept of wearing worse gear to get better stats is pretty foreign to most MMO players, especially PvE players.

You're correct...full PvP set the first day. Only 20k comms that I've had forever. Also fully augmented with new Augments as well.

You're right. Anyone who cares enough to bother with that probably PvPs enough to get the real gear.

EXACTLY!!!

 

Which is why "just wear 190 gear" is equally as dumb of a reply to people. Why the **** does Bolster work like that? Rather than pretending it's common sense to wear worthless crap gear from 5 levels ago that 99% of the people have sold already, admit where the damn problem is.

 

BOLSTER IS BROKEN!

[Kirameki]

Expertise is an issue for casual pvp-ers but I would pvp more if some people would be acting less like a newborn baby crying over their spilled milk bottle .

 

I loved to pvp in the early days of SWTOR but that was before people decided that writing in caps and shouting random insults to others and their own team mates made them "pro".