TUXs Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 having played a game where at one point pvp gear was really good for pve? I can explain to you why ops runners would be compelled to pvp for the gear. in opes - you are subject to RNG. both in terms of what drops and whether you win the roll. so gearing up can take considerable time unless you either buy expensive crafted stuff or wear unoptimized gear. while pvp allows you to get exactly what you put into it and since you buy gear with commendations you earn - rng factor is mostly removed. making pvp a better path to better ops gear, until such time that you could win those set token rolls. if you are trying to progress? pvping for upgrades becomes even more compelling. since group being better geared as a while = faster progression through bosses. and even taking SWTOR. remember when people pvped for relics because they were literally second best option and much more affordable then buying crafted ones (I do, hell I took like 6 characters through pvp for those things)? imagine people pvping for entire sets, given enough insentive Nah... That happened when there were only 2 Ops total, with a one week lockout after doing it ONE time. SM/HM/NiM all shared the same lockout even. We have a plethora of gearing options available to us now...it's an entirely different game now, than it was then. You're worrying over a non-existent issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Expertise is so simple. Either get full pvp gear or make sure all your slots are filled with 190 or lower pve gear. This shouldn't even be a topic. The whole 190 gear thing is exactly why Bolster is broken. Who the hell would use gear 5 levels below them to PvP in? PvPers? No one normal would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendaric Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them. No, I wouldn´t. The reason I don´t PvP is that I don´t like it in the first place and why would I engage in an activity I don´t enjoy? The gear/expertise issue certainly factors in to that to some degree, such as in situations where I´m forced to PvP for a companion or when quest forces me into a PvP area (HK-51) but in general I just don´t like PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duedroth Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The whole 190 gear thing is exactly why Bolster is broken. Who the hell would use gear 5 levels below them to PvP in? PvPers? No one normal would. You: I want to do X. Me: Cool, here's the best way to do that. You: F' that man, me no wanna. qq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 You: I want to do X. Me: Cool, here's the best way to do that. You: F' that man, me no wanna. qq. Pretty sure Tux is in full PvP gear. But the concept of wearing worse gear to get better stats is pretty foreign to most MMO players, especially PvE players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duedroth Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The whole 190 gear thing is exactly why Bolster is broken. Who the hell would use gear 5 levels below them to PvP in? PvPers? No one normal would. On a more civil note, this makes no sense whatsoever. You use the best tool for the job. If the game's mechanics dictate a certain tool, then use it. Gear for your goals. The thing that's not normal is being inflexible to varying requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The whole 190 gear thing is exactly why Bolster is broken. Who the hell would use gear 5 levels below them to PvP in? PvPers? No one normal would. You're right. Anyone who cares enough to bother with that probably PvPs enough to get the real gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juzzyx Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Nope. That would remind me a lot of vanilla wow. Where it always ended up that PVE gear was just better for PVP because the dmg was too high for the pvp survival gear to have an impact. While the meta is different its still to risky. Either way one set of gear will still be better than the other unless they are completely identical then whichever is the fastest one to obtain is the one everyone will get. So....Hell no. Edited November 2, 2015 by Juzzyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 On a more civil note, this makes no sense whatsoever. You use the best tool for the job. If the game's mechanics dictate a certain tool, then use it. Gear for your goals. The thing that's not normal is being inflexible to varying requirements. Well, since PvP is already so broken and past attempts to fix it haven't worked... let's just ditch bolster altogether. Be what you are. If you want better, grind it. Why should everyone get a trophy just for participating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scinald Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well, since PvP is already so broken and past attempts to fix it haven't worked... let's just ditch bolster altogether. Be what you are. If you want better, grind it. Why should everyone get a trophy just for participating? Because PvP (and any competition really) requires mutual participation. Most people are motivated by rewards of some sort. Trophies are a reward. Hope that clarifies things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them. A simple Yes/No doesn't work, what will be the "gearing" system to replace it? If everything stays the same it is right now, then definitely no! You would be giving the people who don't necessarily like PvP the biggest advantage (people who do HM/NiM OPs) by having the best gear. Expertise is not the problem, it is just a mechanic of a system that itself might be the problem. Edited November 2, 2015 by znihilist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I think bolster AND gear stats needs to go at the very least. All players should be set at level 1, vanilla stats. They can use the level sync system they have in place now for PVE. This would guarantee a level playing field, low entry point, and skill based play. I still think gating actual characters behind performance unlocks is best, but even if they allow players to use their current characters I strongly feel the stats need to be set at level one for everyone. Instead, all PVP gear should be cosmetic. PVP rewards could be CC, being that there is no way in game to generate CC in any meaningful way, this could prove to be a strong incentive to increase participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well, since PvP is already so broken and past attempts to fix it haven't worked... let's just ditch bolster altogether. Be what you are. If you want better, grind it. Why should everyone get a trophy just for participating? I'm not even sure what this post is promoting. Are you saying that PvPers should grind HM ops to have BiS gear for PvP? Or are you saying everyone should get utterly destroyed until they get their PvP gear by not bolstering PvE gear at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keta Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Nope. It's a boring cluster****, and nothing will change that. Made it to Valor 70 on my main back when PvP was tolerable, but, the past few years, not even worth my time. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Size-Matters-Not Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Yep. Current gearing both PVE/PVP is retarded. It should be crafted for both with different variations to min/max mods. For the carrot in PVE - make it trinkets or something that boost an ability. Same with PVP, like tiered military rank from soldier to general, with new abilities that decay over time if you don't PVP. Oh yea, PVP in it's current form IS kinda weak. We need select-able queues, cross server, and OWPVP. Kinda like SWG. Edited November 2, 2015 by Size-Matters-Not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm not even sure what this post is promoting. Are you saying that PvPers should grind HM ops to have BiS gear for PvP? Or are you saying everyone should get utterly destroyed until they get their PvP gear by not bolstering PvE gear at all? Or am I saying anything at all? Silly thread gets a silly response. See previous responses, if interested in actual opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyderwoman Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 In that case I would only play PvP if gear was entirely irrelevant in a way like it is in Guild Wars. Expertise was meant as a way to decouple PvP from PvE gear grind, and it is good at it. Especially at the current commendation prices, getting a full set of PvP gear is almost trivial (in fact, apart from the current XP bug, if you play PvP off and on as your characters level up, you will immediately be able to buy the set). Blindly removing expertise would go back to very dark days. I have to agree with this. Besides non ranked warzones they bolster you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them. While I think Expertise should be removed anyway, it still wouldn't make me want to PvP any more. Those days are long behind me. I think the problem is more the attitudes of today's gamers, and not with the gear. I have played other MMOs that do not have specific PvP gear or stats and that still does't make PvP any more of a "thing" than it is here. Honestly, go to any MMO forum and look how many people complain about PuGs nowadays. It's not a gear thing, it's a people thing, and that's not going to change any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Or am I saying anything at all? Silly thread gets a silly response. See previous responses, if interested in actual opinions. Perhaps only you found the topic silly since there are multiple actual responses in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithros Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) The last two times I went to complete the daily, this was my experience: 1) Ended up in an arena. Game started, my team started going right, I thought "I'll go left and see if I can't maybe keep their healer's attentoon on things other than healing their team up". Well, somewhere along the line the rest of my team stopped. I arrived at the enemy faster than they did and got taken out. Okay, whatever. It's an arena. Things happen. One of fmy teammates starts to call me profanities. They do not know me. No words were even exchanged before the match started. I could have been a little kid for all they knew, but they didn't care. Nope, first thing they do is start swearing at me. 2) First match was Novarre coast, second was Alderaan. In both cases my team, apparently made up of random people just looking to do some PvP encountered well-organized and ultra-powerful teams that were dropping us like we were nothing. They weren't matches, they were slaughters. My team got shut out both times. They stopped even worrying about guarding their nodes and set up shop right outside our respawn areas and as soon as we entered the map they wiped us out. ============= Neither case is something that is going to make people want to PvP. People complain about having to PvP to get a couple of the companions in KFE? People tell them "just go stand around". Well, how does this really help? In one case they get people swearing at them, and in the other they encounter a group that doesn't care whether anyone PvPs again as long as they can pad their numbers. Seriously, in example #2 the other team could have taken two nodes and held them indefinitely, letting us have one node and just letting the clock tick. That wasn't enough. No "just go stand in a corner" allowed. They would find the folks that hate PvP and make sure that the never came back. Me? Well, now that they have gotten rid of the unique armor rewards that I could but with the comms (I was thinking about buying some of the exhumed gear), I am not sure if I will even bother again. I don't suck, but if these wannabe top-teams keep on tearing apart pugs in unranked then there won't be people in unranked to fight. Edited November 2, 2015 by Mithros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 You need two sets of gear anyway to eventually host your PvP gear. So? That doesn't mean I should be going out of my way to get worse gear than I have just to do PVP effectively. What's the point of bolster if it doesn't work after a certain gear level? If there is no PvP gear, that works well in PvP, than the best PvE gear becomes the best in PvP. Then you need to get into high-level PvE to PvP. Firstly, the first sentence is badly worded. It took me a moment to figure out what you were actually saying. No one said PVE gear should be best at PVP, but it shouldn't be worst either. If bolster is supposed to bring players with non-PVP gear up to par and make them effective at PVP then why are PVE players with high end gear left out? If stats are all normalized, the class imbalance becomes even more pronounced or the classes have to be homogenized. So shortchanging players who don't play PVP as often is a positive because it masks one issue with another issue? They can downlevel PvE gear, but then they will need to work it both ways, both up and down, to account for the bolster to help folks in the lowbies/midbies. Umm, yes. Obviously. Honestly, it is not simple stuff. It's only complicated because they overcomplicated it. It's actually rather simple. If your gear isn't a part of the current two PVP sets then they get a flat stat allocation just below the current PVP sets, based on what stats are in there. This could even be done on a mod slot basis. For example, and based on made up numbers. Current PVP tiers are 207 and 215 (they're 1-offset from PVE pieces to make them easier to identify). 207 enhancement has 100 endurance, 150 power, and 200 tertiary. 215 enhancement has 110 endurance, 160 power, and 210 tertiary. If you are using any enhancement other than 207 or 215 it becomes 90 endurance, 140 power, and 190 of whatever tertiary stat was in that slot, or if it's empty then crit by default. Doesn't matter if your gear is better or worse, you get the equivalent of a 199 piece of gear. All of the complicated crap they have now is completely idiotic. It bolsters this way if you gear this way, but not if you gear that way, and if you have stats like this then it gives you less of that. Who came up with that? Does anyone actually fully understand it? It's a system that would make Rube Goldberg happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheREALKyias Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Yes. Endgame PvE rewards the best 220 or 224 whatever gear available. Endgame PvP does the same thing only with expertise instead. Make them both reward the same stats so they are interchangeable. The only major difference being each one has their own unique look. Edited November 2, 2015 by TheREALKyias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerqa Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Yes/No - simple question and answer really. I'm just curious if this is a reason why many folk here don't PvP or would like to try it but lack of gear worries them. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterSarynn Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Expertise doesn't really bother me, but I wouldn't mind if it was removed. Mainly because then I wouldn't have to worry about carrying 2-4 sets of gear on me at all times (PvE Tank and DPS, PvP Tank and DPS) on two of my chars (both 90 valor). Quite honestly, the thing that bothers me most is the imbalance of classes. That's what really needs the most work. Edited November 2, 2015 by JediMasterSarynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantheros Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Basically anyone who says yes I want expertise removed fundamentally misunderstans it's purpose. All it does is put everyone on equal footing. Literally everyone is going to have the same expertise, easily within a week. The cap is 1936, which is only a 1-2% difference from 2018 (only difference is expertise color crystals) and it costs something like 3125 comms which is extremely cheap. Essentially it prevents people with pve gear coming into pvp with god 224 gear and having a much larger stat budget than most other people. EXPERTISE EVENS THE FIELD IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE. Now that that is out of the way, expertise does need a rebalance, healing is far to strong right now and it's leading to stagnation. Edited November 2, 2015 by Pantheros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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