Carinyc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) Seems pretty counter-intuitive to the whole scenario Edited October 31, 2015 by Carinyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Seems pretty counter-intuitive to the whole scenario I was hoping SW:TOR would take the plunge and do away with factions mechanically. WoW has had this problem since launch - "Our leaders are constantly cooperating and communicating to defeat greater threats, but I'm going to continue hating you because reasons." To the point that it actually becomes unbelievable that there are continuing hostilities when worlds are at risk. SW:TOR actually had a believable faction conflict up to SoR, but at this point, it doesn't make sense for it to continue. Faction lock previous content, sure, but everything from here on out should be doable with people from either faction. It might be a tech hurdle, but it'll definitely be welcome, especially on servers with smaller populations. At the very least, we can understand each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I was hoping SW:TOR would take the plunge and do away with factions mechanically. WoW has had this problem since launch - "Our leaders are constantly cooperating and communicating to defeat greater threats, but I'm going to continue hating you because reasons." To the point that it actually becomes unbelievable that there are continuing hostilities when worlds are at risk. SW:TOR actually had a believable faction conflict up to SoR, but at this point, it doesn't make sense for it to continue. Faction lock previous content, sure, but everything from here on out should be doable with people from either faction. It might be a tech hurdle, but it'll definitely be welcome, especially on servers with smaller populations. At the very least, we can understand each other. They can tear every other part of the game to shreds and stick it back together with duct tape, but they can't figure out a way to work around the faction issue no matter what would make sense for the "story" they're putting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinyc Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 They can tear every other part of the game to shreds and stick it back together with duct tape, but they can't figure out a way to work around the faction issue no matter what would make sense for the "story" they're putting out. This is the biggest deal breaker to me when it comes to the last story content and the current state of the endgame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalchemy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The way I see it, it's been made pretty clear that the Outlander is the only one who can unify the two factions, however grudgingly, for as long as it takes to deal with the Eternal Empire, and even that's going to be a stretch. We've been told that the majority of both Republic and Empire are quite happily warring with one another in a vastly lower-stakes version of the same conflict they had going on before Arcann rolled over the galaxy. There are a few representatives of the other side who are working with you because they absolutely have to, not because they want to, and they're pariahs and outcasts due to that choice. Presuming that the Eternal Empire will not also be the Eternal Antagonist, it seems pointless to figure out how to work around the faction coding for the duration of Arcann's arc, only to have it (quite likely) revert back to business as usual for Republic and Empire when the larger mutual threat has been dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinyc Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) The way I see it, it's been made pretty clear that the Outlander is the only one who can unify the two factions, however grudgingly, for as long as it takes to deal with the Eternal Empire, and even that's going to be a stretch. We've been told that the majority of both Republic and Empire are quite happily warring with one another in a vastly lower-stakes version of the same conflict they had going on before Arcann rolled over the galaxy. There are a few representatives of the other side who are working with you because they absolutely have to, not because they want to, and they're pariahs and outcasts due to that choice. Presuming that the Eternal Empire will not also be the Eternal Antagonist, it seems pointless to figure out how to work around the faction coding for the duration of Arcann's arc, only to have it (quite likely) revert back to business as usual for Republic and Empire when the larger mutual threat has been dealt with. Actually, the alliance is neither the Sith or the Republic, it's both. You joined the alliance because you are coming together to face a more dangerous threat. Everyone else back in the base faction who hasn't joined the alliance are going to be playing war games with the other faction, sure, but this is the alliance. That's why I said Odessa and not every planet. Edited October 31, 2015 by Carinyc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalchemy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Actually, the alliance is neither the Sith or the Republic, it's both. You joined the alliance because you are coming together to face a more dangerous threat. Everyone else back in the base faction who hasn't joined the alliance are going to be playing war games with the other faction, sure, but this is the alliance. Certainly, but when all is said and done, those people who joined the alliance from the other side are going back to their side, and you'll all be trying to kill each other, again. No sense in shutting off one of the key defining characteristics of the game (Republic versus Empire) for the duration of a conflict that (one hopes, anyway) will not linger for the remainder of the life of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSitruc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 i think that once you get to the SOR story line, the player should become a neutral agent or basically factionless. The factions mean absolutely nothing to your character after this point. You will be able to side more with one side on issues, as you do now, but the outcomes stay the same. Since there are typically 3 factions at play. Whether its Empire and Republic vs the Hutts/Dread Masters/Revanites/Eternal Empire/Future Faction.. I don't believe that it is necessary to the game for the player to be designated as either Empire or Republic. However, if you want to get technical, with 4.0 a 4th faction as sprung up. The Alliance. That is how you bring the Empire and republic faction players together. You hit level 60 then you split from the 2 main factions and become part of the Alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalchemy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 However, if you want to get technical, with 4.0 a 4th faction as sprung up. The Alliance. That is how you bring the Empire and republic faction players together. You hit level 60 then you split from the 2 main factions and become part of the Alliance. But, that's the thing: the alliance is temporary. It can't last. The time will come when its objective is completed, and everyone goes home. It's a rag-tag band of exiles, misfits, and opportunists. An elite rag-tag band, to be sure - one which will eventually be capable of challenging the greatest power in the galaxy - but it's not a society, or even the foundation of one. The people from the Republic and the Empire who joined up did so not to create a new civilization, but instead to restore their original respective civilizations. The alliance answers the question, "What do we do about Zakuul, right now?" not, "How am I going to spend the rest of my life?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 But, that's the thing: the alliance is temporary. It can't last. The time will come when its objective is completed, and everyone goes home. It's a rag-tag band of exiles, misfits, and opportunists. An elite rag-tag band, to be sure - one which will eventually be capable of challenging the greatest power in the galaxy - but it's not a society, or even the foundation of one. The people from the Republic and the Empire who joined up did so not to create a new civilization, but instead to restore their original respective civilizations. The alliance answers the question, "What do we do about Zakuul, right now?" not, "How am I going to spend the rest of my life?" The whole civilizations of the Sith Empire and the Republic do not have to work together in order for the Alliance to continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSitruc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 true, but (in this game) its not likely that you will see a full fledged war between the empire and republic. It simply wont and cannot happen. Its been stated numerous times by the devs that it is too time/resource consuming to have multiple threads going through the game. That it why the 8 different stories (at launch) were moved into 2 different stories 1 for the empire and 1 for the republic (makeb and oricon?) and then became 1 singular story with SOR and KOTFE. In end game there has always been a third faction that both the pubs and imps were trying to overcome. The makeb expansion and oricon were the last and im sure final stories where you see differences in the story if you are pub or imp. Going forward we can assume there is going to be a single story that is not different between the imps and pubs, so why continue to have players on those factions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalchemy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The whole civilizations of the Sith Empire and the Republic do not have to work together in order for the Alliance to continue. Indeed. I'm just saying that I think it's a safe bet to conclude that the alliance won't survive long past the completion of its primary objective. I mean, hell, my Sith warrior isn't doing this for the alliance - he's doing it to return the Empire to glory and to eventually claim its throne for himself. When that time comes, sure, he'll offer his new friends a place in that restored Empire but, if they refuse, then he'll just have to kill his new friends. And that's why the alliance doesn't work as a long-term entity - there are too many conflicts of interest and ideological differences for it to sustain itself after its goal is realized. I mean, picture the conversations: "So... everyone - subjugating entire planets, yea or nay? Because, I mean, this is a big thumbs-up for me, but I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on it. Theron? Admiral Aygo? Both of you look like you want to say something..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSitruc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 And that's why the alliance doesn't work as a long-term entity - there are too many conflicts of interest and ideological differences for it to sustain itself after its goal is realized. I mean, picture the conversations: "So... everyone - subjugating entire planets, yea or nay? Because, I mean, this is a big thumbs-up for me, but I wanted to hear everyone's thoughts on it. Theron? Admiral Aygo? Both of you look like you want to say something..." That other roleplay stuff you listed in fine and dandy, but wont happen. There will always be someone on a higher platform than the player. Think of the Alliance as NATO or the United Nations. They are a group of nations that try to keep peace between global forces. They also have a military force that will go in and force sides to be peaceful lol.. That is basically how I am visualizing the Alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowanThursday Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 See, this is why I'm very much hoping that, if/when the Eternal Empire is defeated, and whoever leads the Republic and Empire at that point starts on a "And now we have to turn our attention back to the *real* threat- " and points out the other half of your allies, that the Outlander gets to storm up to their own erstwhile faction's leader, grab them by the collar and say firmly "You do that, and you'll have *me* to deal with, understood?" I like the option of not formally returning to either side at the end, but remaining as an independent force between Zakuul, Coruscant, and Dromund Kaas, essentially lending your weight to whoever happens to be the weaker power in any strife between them, in order to keep all of them in check. Seems a logical future direction which would enable the 'one story' model Bioware now appear to want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinak Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 One of EA's biggest mistakes was making a fixed faction system in the first place. In at least one of the stories you have a very clear and defined path to joining the other side based on your decisions but you just can't cause reasons. (paraphrasing) You're too much a Jedi to become a Sith at this point. (and vice versa) U wot m8? But I'm full Light/Dark side brah. Best part is how a couple of the companions are originally from the opposite faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nocturnalchemy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 See, this is why I'm very much hoping that, if/when the Eternal Empire is defeated, and whoever leads the Republic and Empire at that point starts on a "And now we have to turn our attention back to the *real* threat- " and points out the other half of your allies, that the Outlander gets to storm up to their own erstwhile faction's leader, grab them by the collar and say firmly "You do that, and you'll have *me* to deal with, understood?" Whereas I'm all about, "Right, then. Time to get back to conquest and enforcing order on the galaxy." I mean, don't get me wrong: I actually love this arc with the Eternal Empire. But, eventually, I'm really hoping to get back to the central conflict of the setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansanor Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 You can talk with the other faction. You always have been able to talk to the other faction. The only caveat is they have to be within range of your /say feature. As for running fps and such with the other faction? Sorry, no. I don't want the other faction in my groups. If I did, I'd be running on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSitruc Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 As for running fps and such with the other faction? Sorry, no. I don't want the other faction in my groups. If I did, I'd be running on the other side. well you already lost that one. with KOTFE you have the other side in your group/alliance and in your companions. there is no difference they are just NPCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicenemies Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 The biggest problem are these 1. Empire is to appealing 2.Republic is not appealing enough 3. No 3rd faction If they make it you can chat with the other side and do fp's together its game over take a good look at rift thats essentially saying ok we give up your all one faction now adios pvp lets hold hands sing koom buyah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 One of EA's biggest mistakes was making a fixed faction system in the first place. In at least one of the stories you have a very clear and defined path to joining the other side based on your decisions but you just can't cause reasons. (paraphrasing) You're too much a Jedi to become a Sith at this point. (and vice versa) U wot m8? But I'm full Light/Dark side brah. Best part is how a couple of the companions are originally from the opposite faction. Hell, two of the classes shouldn't really be attached to the two factions anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sansanor Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 well you already lost that one. with KOTFE you have the other side in your group/alliance and in your companions. there is no difference they are just NPCs. Warriors, Inquisitors, Knights already did: Lord Scourge, Jaesa, Ashara. I'm talking about other players. Not NPCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleurdelis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Agree with the OP, I should, on the Imperial side, be able to run the Star Fortress FP's with members of the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Was disappointed to see that KotFE didn't allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobekeus Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've always thought the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter should be in their own faction. Along with another class to round them out with three total... maybe Voss style force user? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've always thought the Smuggler and Bounty Hunter should be in their own faction. Along with another class to round them out with three total... maybe Voss style force user? Voss Mystics were going to be their own class, but were removed very early on in concept / production. Partially had to do with plot holes that would arise later on in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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