Cuiwe Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 #nerf pyro IMO this spec need a srs re-balance or re-work. ? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) ? Why? Dunno, but Pyro mechanic don't work in PvP at least. Its just spec with broken weak spread mechanic and useless AOE in rotation with all dat mobility buffs in 4.0. U can do average numbers as DOT based spec with spread mechanic, but all this numbers is "here u go - DOT for u DOT for u" - scorch tab and dat gives pretty weak derp/pressure. Edited December 25, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarauderNZero Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 After the all of the changes they made to PT dps since October, I've been using Pyro almost as much as I use Proto. The biggest drawback Pyro has for me is the 3 second channel on flamethrower that you can't move when using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) FT on the move don't helps at least if AOE cleave, there is already 90% slow for what on the move? To trying catch the target with HO lol?. Even if u stack players - they just run away, too much mobility or cc, push e.t.c. Stack players is an issue. Before 3.0 it was AOE burst and was much less mobility, AP(old version of Pyro) issue was only survivability, but even now its an issue. Dunno but in regs against bads/PvE-rs every broken spec is playable, tho we talking about any comfort gameplay or yolo/grp ranked. Edited December 25, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourPawnBenoni Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 DOT spread on flame sweep and problem solved in my opinion....makes it similar to lacerate that way so shouldn't be an issue The next biggest problem, imo, is that Pyro DCD's are much worse than AP...yeah the adrenaline rush perks are nice but you usually die before it comes back off cool down. This makes it pretty much useless in solo ranked where it's 4 dps vs 4 dps as you will just get destroyed right away. What would be better is to allow it to be activated at 70% and fill to 70% or if you keep it the same then give us the same defensive boost on aoe taunt that AP gets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuiwe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Also, shouldn't Ion Pulse + Plasma Cell do the exact same damage as Tactical Pulse? Or in the neighborhood thereof? I feel like the difference is too big currently(I'll use dulfy numbers): TacPulse: 2204-2332 Energy damage(2268 average) +5%(Riot Augs) +3%(Triumph) +5%(Havoc Training / Susceptible) +5%(High Energy Cell) -10%(average armour with Sundered factored in) = 2380-2518 Energy damage(2449 average) Ion Pulse: 1255-1382 Elemental damage(1318 average) +Plasma Cell tick(Plasma cell damage / 3) Plasma Cell: 678 Elemental over 6 seconds(226 / tick) +30%(SuperHeated Plasma) = 881 Elemental over 6 seconds(294 / tick) Ion Pulse + Plasma Cell: 1549 - 1676 Elemental damage(1612 average) IonPulse / TacPulse: 1612 / 2449 = 0,66% THIRTY THREE PERCENT DIFFERENCE! ***! :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuiwe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I even tried to look at it in the intervals of 4 GCDs(6s). And still the TP was ahead of IP PC combo. Then I realised something VERY ODD: *** do Havoc Training and Plasmatise both cause Susceptible(+5% tech dmg)? Wouldn't Assailable(+7% ele dmg) make more sense for Plasmatise? And with the inclusion of Assailable, the numbers fell in their places. Dulfy TacPulse avg: 2336, Dulfy IP PC combo avg: 2334(after all the bonuses, positive or negative). I'll be bold and suggest TWO CHANGES for PlasmaTech: 1. Plasmatise causes ASSAILABLE instead of SUSCEPTIBLE. 1a. Plasmatise given earlier. 2. Explosive Surge spreads IR instead of PulseCan. 2a. DoTspread given earlier. Really, I think these two would fix PlasmaTech and then some. Your thoughts TAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpmewin Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 (edited) Pyro must be DOT based spec without dat laughtable cleave DMG what dat spec have. My tho remove FT stacks DMG boost and surge, give surge on another 2 DOTs and spread on FS(aka analogy with hatred sin lacerate spread). Or remove DOTs - buff cleave and single target DMG abilities strikes and let this spec be as it was design. ATM it is biological(BW?) monster dat don't works in PvP. Numbers? Yes he can do numbers. Pressure? Very low atm. The worst in the game.IMO and my tho. Edited December 31, 2015 by helpmewin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arehonn Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) In PvP, I actually think the damage is there for Plasma/Pyro ( albeit, I'd love to see our deleted 20 percent damage boost back for Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower). What could make it feared in warzones is some QOL changes to Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower. In my experience, I find that my biggest swings and misses with Flamethrower/Pulse Cannon are in this order: 1. Knockbacks on me 2. Stuns/Mezz 3. Misjudging the distance 4. Friendly knockbacks on the targets 5. Accidentally hitting a movement key I think we could eliminate 1,2, and 5 by giving Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower the following buff: Hold Your Ground/Magnetic Boots With Combustible Gas Cylinder active, Flamethrower/Pulse Cannon now roots the user, giving them immunity to crowd control and physics. Last for the duration of the channel, 20 second cooldown. Two more wishes in regards to Pulse Cannon, but focused more on the damage it does ( and a QOL change ) 1. Give back our missing 20 percent damage on Pulse Cannon/Flamerthrower 2. Have Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower spread Plasmatize/Scorch. Edited January 15, 2016 by Arehonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyCakeLight Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) This is probably going to sound silly. But! I wish they would change Scorch into an FT replacement. Keep Scorch's DoT damage, make it apply to all foes hit, and buff the base FT damage slightly. Give it a fancy new animation (like Firestorm, but even bigger!), and I would be so happy! While I'm dreaming, make it usable on the move or a trait. Edited January 17, 2016 by SkyCakeLight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooie Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I two liked the Pyro really fun to play but the nerfs and the bugs it got I am not happy forcing me to go to the other dps spec to get better damage and dps. I really hope that the Dev team is looking at this thread so they now the Pyro is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyublina Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 If you like the spec than just play it .....? Yes, there might be better classes to play but as long as you have the correct gear every class is viable for operations. For example I like saboteur and have played it since patch 1.2 when I created my slinger. My class has been on the low end of the bracket for quite some time. On the other hand it has seen nicer days too. Regarless the performance I like the style and won't ever stop playing it. How? I want to do competative pvp. Any ideas? You dont even scratch them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilinghawk Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Someone suggested earlier giving pyro self rebounder if utility picked into sonic rebounder, a bit like arsenal gets extra benefit from charged barrier if utility is picked. Pvp wise a short cooldown defensive that you have to time right would be very nice to have. Or they could tie some damage reduction into superheated flamer stacks, like 2% per stack and give double reduction while channeling the flamer, don't know if that would be too strong. Damage wise pyro needs one big hit, currently you only have 3 medium hitting abilities, so maybe buff dmg on either rail, flame fist or immolate. Maybe have rail deal a bit of extra damage per (x%/dot) dot present on enemy.. Or give scorch a cooldown and make the damage bigger and/or some decent initial splash dmg. Or they could buff flamer damage and reduce the snare, so that flamer would deal better damage and you can and should be moving out of it. Also would be cool if dart had some bonus like ticking all dots once when it explodes, or execute dart proc like warhead on IO. I like dart and would love to have more reason to use it. Just some suggestions, obviously not all buffs together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I just want to know why I can't seem to spread scorch. Also, where is pyro's third dot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos_KidSWTOR Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I just want to know why I can't seem to spread scorch. Also, where is pyro's third dot? Pyro's DoT abilities are CGC, Incend Missile, and Scorch. Scorch can be planted on more than 1 target at a time, and when the target dies, it moves to a target that is within (IIRC) 10 meters. It cannot be spread with Flamethrower like Incend Missile, but instead has to be placed on each individual target you want to put it on. Stupid Mechanic? Yes. Would it break Pyro to make it a thing? Nope. Pyro is not the lowest DPS anymore, but it's still certainly low! If we had 1.5s Flamethrower Channel, I think the spec would be much better off in both regards. But, then I think we would need more filler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuiwe Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Pyro's DoT abilities are CGC, Incend Missile, and Scorch. Scorch can be planted on more than 1 target at a time, and when the target dies, it moves to a target that is within (IIRC) 10 meters. It cannot be spread with Flamethrower like Incend Missile, but instead has to be placed on each individual target you want to put it on. Stupid Mechanic? Yes. Would it break Pyro to make it a thing? Nope. Pyro is not the lowest DPS anymore, but it's still certainly low! If we had 1.5s Flamethrower Channel, I think the spec would be much better off in both regards. But, then I think we would need more filler... Yeah, I was thinking what'd happen if Plasma got Ion Storm + Pulse Engine and Sh.Spec Pulse Generator(with perhaps bigger increase to damage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Ya i guess i just never really considered the cylinder to be an actual dot since it does so little damage. Like in IO you have the cylinder, serrated shot, Incendiary missile, fusion missile and supercharged gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arehonn Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) I've grown to enjoy the dot spread mechanic of Scorch/Plasmatize. I usually just spread it manually, but I get a big kick of watching someone running away, dying, and spreading the dot to someone he died next to 50m away from me. Or when the dot spreads to a stealther, knocking them out of hiding. Edited February 4, 2016 by Arehonn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilinghawk Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Posting to keep this alive. Been playing a few matches with tacs/ap lately and I gotta say that spec has nice flow and fun procs and debuffs to manage, what with rail reset and bleed refresh on dart and rail. Pyro really needs something to make the rotation/skill use more interesting and fun, it quickly devolves into flame burst spam when dots are on and the big 3 are on cooldown. Also with aoe supposedly being pyro's strength, in a pvp situation ap has better practical cleave than pyro. Ap dart is respectable single target dmg with a bleed on target and instantaneous cleave. Buffed DFA with shorter cooldown, and also 30m range on both. Maybe incendiary missile dotspread could be moved to dart and have dart also proc cgc? Then you could make flamer a pure cleave move with better dmg, now when ppl are stacked you have to waste a global on im to to get maximum effect and after that one global the group may have dispersed already. Imo the biggest problem is flamer, the dmg is not enough. It is 4 ticks in 2 globals, per global a flame burst crit is high 4k to low 5k dmg range with cgc proc, flamer needs to crit 2 times to have more dmg per global and it is not much more. Proposed fix: reduce snare, no cooldown reduction, no dotspread, maybe even interruptible, but make the dmg scary. Also buff the defenses a bit, buff the 5% internal into just 5% dmg reduction and one small defensive effect onto a short cooldown move, like sonic missile or hydraulics. Edit: Or make it the dot spec without dotspread (which it kinda is already) and buff the single target dmg accordingly to give pyro some identity. Edited February 29, 2016 by Smilinghawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Bumping even though the devs don't read this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xienive Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Been back at the game a couple of weeks now and kind of miss playing this spec. I've tried my best to get it to work, but it's just straight up inferior. Kind of depressing considering the animations are some of the best in the game, maybe even my personal favorite. I hate that stupid magnet pulse thingy they have given AP. It's so terribly ugly and boring sounding in every way, but I'm forced to use it all the time since I can't make this fun spec work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion_Starkiller Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Been back at the game a couple of weeks now and kind of miss playing this spec. I've tried my best to get it to work, but it's just straight up inferior. Kind of depressing considering the animations are some of the best in the game, maybe even my personal favorite. I hate that stupid magnet pulse thingy they have given AP. It's so terribly ugly and boring sounding in every way, but I'm forced to use it all the time since I can't make this fun spec work. The OP was from 2015, but his link is updated and it clearly shows that Pyro / Plasma is not the worst spec in PVE. In fact, it outperforms AP / Tactics. Work on your rotation buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medakon Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 The OP was from 2015, but his link is updated and it clearly shows that Pyro / Plasma is not the worst spec in PVE. In fact, it outperforms AP / Tactics. Work on your rotation buddy. This is very true, plasma/pyro has way more damage than tactical/AP in PvE, tactic might do 1% more dmg than pyro at start of fight because of raid buff + stack bombs + crit buff, but plasma out dps tactic easy and has almost the same burst dmg. Full 224 tactical: 6380 damage per second Full 224 plasma: 6580 damage per second From experince all the pvp kids play tactical because it's easy to use and dosn't requier much effort, while more hardcore players go plasmatech because its beter, but requier management of your ammo/heat Source: Personal experience and https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CaeVzBuHvb4yVsAVQuIhTU-lH0QuQ4GPhUIM0x0Qj1o/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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