Video Proof that Companions are Too powerful! KOTFE

[DaForceiswithme]

Well, thanks for the psychological insight. I'm sorry to say that it doesn't apply to everyone. I'm not having fun because I'm invincible. I don't get a warm glow from feeling superpowered. Besides, I'm not superpowered. The character is. I'm still the guy behind the keyboard. And I'm having fun because I can get to the bits of the game I care about more easily than I could before. I'm having fun because I don't have to do stuff I don't want to do - i.e. spend wasted hours killing meaningless mobs, in order to do stuff I do want to do - i.e. advance the story.

 

Unlike you, I do not feel success or achievement at completing a challenge in a video game, because it's just a video game. It's entertainment. It's very true that my character should be challenged. The protagonists of all stories should be challenged. It's what makes them good stories. However, it should not be necessary for me, the person viewing the story, the audience, to feel at all challenged, in order to enjoy said story.

 

I am not the protagonist of the story. I'm simply telling him (or her) what to do or say.

 

You just described an interactive book....

[DaForceiswithme]

Use the force, play blindfolded!

 

If I'm not gettin a sync nerf, your not gettin a comp nerf!

 

LOL. Can't argue with that logic. Thanks for that

[Raphael_diSanto]

But a game has to be played in order to make it a game.

 

Right now it's a interactive story book because it plays itself, I just turn the pages (walk forwards.)

 

That's fine if that's what people want, I'd just like the 'game' back please.

 

I like interactive story books

 

I mean, it's still interactive. It doesn't happen without me pushing buttons, making choices, steering the protagonist through the plot.

 

But all the bits I wish I could skip, are at least more palatable for me.

 

I'm sorry it's gone to a direction you don't like (No sarcasm there) I suspect that things will be dialled back over time as they sort the balancing issues out. Perhaps we'll find a happy medium. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just that for some of us, the changes gave us an experience much closer to one that we enjoy.

 

(And that your assessment of why people play these games and the 'reward' they feel from playing them, and what mechanisms grant that 'reward' feeling can really only ever be accurate in that it applies to you, personally)

Edited October 27, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[maidelken]

I like interactive story books

 

I mean, it's still interactive. It doesn't happen without me pushing buttons, making choices, steering the protagonist through the plot.

 

But all the bits I wish I could skip, are at least more palatable for me.

 

I'm sorry it's gone to a direction you don't like (No sarcasm there) I suspect that things will be dialled back over time as they sort the balancing issues out. Perhaps we'll find a happy medium. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just that for some of us, the changes gave us an experience much closer to one that we enjoy.

 

(And that your assessment of why people play these games and the 'reward' they feel from playing them, and what mechanisms grant that 'reward' feeling can really only ever be accurate in that it applies to you, personally)

 

But that's all I'm asking for. I don't want the companions nerfed into the ground, I don't want them to keel over if they see a womp rat, I just want a little bit of balancing. Glad you can see my point.

[Raphael_diSanto]

But that's all I'm asking for. I don't want the companions nerfed into the ground, I don't want them to keel over if they see a womp rat, I just want a little bit of balancing. Glad you can see my point.

 

Oh, I absolutely can.

 

I'm really not one of the people who complained about combat before. I never really had that much difficulty with the combat before 4.0. I could solo most everything I wanted to solo because my companions have always been pretty-well geared. But since I don't play for the combat, to me, anything that lessens the amount of time and thought I have to put into making pixellated figures fall over is a good change.

 

I'm not anti-combat. I just think that it should serve the plot, not the other way around. After all, in A New Hope, if we assume Luke is the protagonist, how many actual combat set pieces were there that involved him, in 2 hours of movie?

 

Anyway, the main reason I posted was mostly because you seemed convinced, in your post, that X and Y were the only reasons why people would feel accomplishment (or whatever), and that that was why the changes were bad. I would agree with you that some people's buttons absolutely are triggered in that way.

 

Just not everyone's.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto

[maidelken]

Oh, I absolutely can.

 

I'm really not one of the people who complained about combat before. I never really had that much difficulty with the combat before 4.0. I could solo most everything I wanted to solo because my companions have always been pretty-well geared. But since I don't play for the combat, to me, anything that lessens the amount of time and thought I have to put into making pixellated figures fall over is a good change.

 

I'm not anti-combat. I just think that it should serve the plot, not the other way around. After all, in A New Hope, if we assume Luke is the protagonist, how many actual combat set pieces were there that involved him, in 2 hours of movie?

 

Anyway, the main reason I posted was mostly because you seemed convinced, in your post, that X and Y were the only reasons why people would feel accomplishment (or whatever), and that that was why the changes were bad. I would agree with you that some people's buttons absolutely are triggered in that way.

 

Just not everyone's.

 

Oh I totally agree, I also get a feeling of success when my character sells a big item on the market, completes a chapter etc. I just know this is a computer 'game' and once all the content is completed on all my characters (a few months before that happens) then I'm relying on the 'game' to keep me entertained. Something it won't do with companies that play themselves.

 

Either that or they need to crank out kotfe faster than they have promised...

[DaForceiswithme]

I like interactive story books

 

I mean, it's still interactive. It doesn't happen without me pushing buttons, making choices, steering the protagonist through the plot.

 

But all the bits I wish I could skip, are at least more palatable for me.

 

I'm sorry it's gone to a direction you don't like (No sarcasm there) I suspect that things will be dialled back over time as they sort the balancing issues out. Perhaps we'll find a happy medium. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong, just that for some of us, the changes gave us an experience much closer to one that we enjoy.

 

(And that your assessment of why people play these games and the 'reward' they feel from playing them, and what mechanisms grant that 'reward' feeling can really only ever be accurate in that it applies to you, personally)

 

 

Thanks for this post. It really brings a lot of perspective to this I think. I think its safe to say that us players that want companions to be balanced don't want this to be a super grindy game like some Japanese MMOs We dont want players to die at every turn. I think what all players want though is to not only to play through a great story but to make us feel that we were a part of it.

 

We love to play with our companions. If we did not i couldn't care less if they were Over powered or not. I have been playing with Kehm Val for 4 years and I have enjoyed my experiences with him. I enjoy his side story also.

 

We don't want for them to Kneel for a wamp rat either. In their own way they should be epic too. I mean these are not just bums we are taking off the street these are elite forces that we recruit. if they are stronger than us though how does that make sense in the story? Why even have us in it? Lana went through alot of trouble rescuing me.

 

Think about the Good Watson and Holmes stories. Why have Sherlock if Watson can solve everything? Where is the good story telling in that?

 

It makes me happy people are having fun with the companions and the different roles they can do and the utility they can bring now. Its just for our story telling experiences we feel that they should need our help to accomplish their goals and they in turn guide us in what would usually be insurmountable odds and help us accomplish our goals. We want them to be our Watson. We want to feel like we are a team but I am the glue that keeps it together and the powerful force in the galaxy that keeps it all moving.

 

I think that the video showed above all else that is not happening. I can't speak for everyone else but that is why i am unhappy about it. I use We cause that is what i am getting as i read more and more of these posts. Those who say we want this game to be super hard and challenging to the point where its no fun is just not true.

Edited October 27, 2015 by DaForceiswithme

[Vember]

But a game has to be played in order to make it a game.

 

Right now it's a interactive story book because it plays itself, I just turn the pages (walk forwards.)

 

That's fine if that's what people want, I'd just like the 'game' back please.

 

But these are fights you would win anyway, they're just easier. I really don't see what the problem is.

 

I'ts A - I won, but I have 50% hp left, or

B - I won, but I have 100% hp left

 

Either way, you still won. Nothing changed. All non FP/Op content in this game has been soloable for a long, long time. Yet people are complaining like the game has completely changed in that respect, when in reality, it has not.

 

I can only think of one H4 I couldn't solo with any non tank character at level, and that was on Pub side on Alderaan

Edited October 27, 2015 by Vember

[-Spc]

Video Link is below. This is Chapter 3 of KOTFE and is probably the 2nd real boss fight i encountered. No spoilers please I have cut most of the story sequences from this clip. This is what we are going to ask new and returning players to put up with. Think of how crappy they may feel when they find out its this easy.

 

Here you will see rank 1 Lana take on 2 elites by herself. Furthermore, She finished the battle unharmed and with 95-100 percent HP. Unfortunately i was not so lucky. You will see all my presence unlocks which is not even half of the legacy unlocks, and proof that she is only rank 1 influence so no bonuses there.

 

 

It kind of makes me ask why they bothered with me when she can do all this by herself. This isn't about the companions being on par with you but its about them being better than even you at fighting these things. Also 2 man heroics should be done by two people that is why they are called 2 man heroics.

Then don't use companion, very simple.

[maidelken]

But these are fights you would win anyway, they're just easier. I really don't see what the problem is.

 

I'ts A - I won, but I have 50% hp left, or

B - I won, but I have 100% hp left

 

Either way, you still won. Nothing changed. All non FP/Op content in this game has been soloable for a long, long time. Yet people are complaining like the game has completely changed in that respect, when in reality, it has not.

 

I can only think of one H4 I couldn't solo with any non tank character at level, and that was on Pub side on Alderaan

 

Yes but there is a very different situation between

 

A) I did nothing because my companion soloed my class boss

B) I wiped twice because I hadn't learnt how to use my character properly and then I finally beat him in a tense epic battle worthy of ending my characters class storyline.

 

My first two characters got B (OK on my sith warrior it was the guy before the final boss that made me cry, the final final boss wasn't too hard) but my third character is right near that point (one world to go) and for the last 20 levels he's not done a thing, it's all been Elara.

[Jadescythe]

But these are fights you would win anyway, they're just easier. I really don't see what the problem is.

 

I'ts A - I won, but I have 50% hp left, or

B - I won, but I have 100% hp left

 

Either way, you still won. Nothing changed. All non FP/Op content in this game has been soloable for a long, long time. Yet people are complaining like the game has completely changed in that respect, when in reality, it has not.

 

I can only think of one H4 I couldn't solo with any non tank character at level, and that was on Pub side on Alderaan

 

KotFE felt like I was on Youtube watching a let's play. Controlling my character was meaningless as there was no way to fail short of suiciding. And I'm fairly confident a healer companion would keep me alive even if I consumed my way to 1% HP on a Sorc.

 

If there is no possibility of failure then actually playing is meaningless. You might as well just let me space bar the combat and watch the cutscenes. It doesn't have to be difficult to beat, but it should at least be possible to lose.

[Vember]

Yes but there is a very different situation between

 

A) I did nothing because my companion soloed my class boss

B) I wiped twice because I hadn't learnt how to use my character properly and then I finally beat him in a tense epic battle worthy of ending my characters class storyline.

 

My first two characters got B (OK on my sith warrior it was the guy before the final boss that made me cry, the final final boss wasn't too hard) but my third character is right near that point (one world to go) and for the last 20 levels he's not done a thing, it's all been Elara.

 

My companion doesn't solo anything, because I'm always in the fight. Why do you let your companion solo it, then complain about it? Color me bewildered.

[Vember]

KotFE felt like I was on Youtube watching a let's play. Controlling my character was meaningless as there was no way to fail short of suiciding. And I'm fairly confident a healer companion would keep me alive even if I consumed my way to 1% HP on a Sorc.

 

If there is no possibility of failure then actually playing is meaningless. You might as well just let me space bar the combat and watch the cutscenes. It doesn't have to be difficult to beat, but it should at least be possible to lose.

 

Dude there was no way to fail in all of 3.0 either! Granted, now its much easier, but it wasn't hard before. At no point has anything outside of flashpoints and Ops been difficult.

 

Now Flashpoints are even more difficult. I, for one, absolutely love 4.0, top to bottom. Except for the removal of gear vendors.

[Jadescythe]

Dude there was no way to fail in all of 3.0 either! Granted, now its much easier, but it wasn't hard before. At no point has anything outside of flashpoints and Ops been difficult.

 

Now Flashpoints are even more difficult. I, for one, absolutely love 4.0, top to bottom. Except for the removal of gear vendors.

 

There most definitely was a way to fail in 3.0. If you did nothing but send your companion in to attack, it would die. Even against normal mobs. Obviously players could easily clear everything themselves, but it was possible to fail. Ultimately, you determined if you won or lost a fight, even if it didn't require much.

 

And if it needed to be easier than that, fine. But there is literally no way to fail anymore as your companion will do everything for you even if you stand still.

[Moranae]

its funny how people forget !!

 

When Treek made her venue on the game, people cried the same : She is so powerful ! and then silence. And you could see Treek more and more on the game.

 

If you started lv 1 with HK 51 even with his armor totally downgraded, he was also very powerfull.

 

Not long ago -one month- I created a little one, took HK at level 1 and Treek at lv 10.

Tython : ahah he was killing without any problem and without any heals from me, packs of 5 to 7 mobs and i was able to solo with him the Heroic there.

 

Then at level 10, coruscant : i did all the heroics with Treek, and solo, even the one with those numerous elites and a lot of killing to do (Deed ....). and finished with Treek and HK doing the Heroics for Ilum, and yes solo.

 

I could with Treek be safe all time, she was attacking tanking and healing at the same time. I never choose a stance but let her free to use all the skills and that was a breeze and sooo easy.

 

I helped even once a group in Kuat Drive, and Treek went Tank for the final boss.

 

Why ? Why? so much are complaining now and said nothing before ?

 

Treek had always about 15K HP above my own level (at max level) and worst she has that difference all the time, not only in mode tank as now for our companions. But you get her, she starts at 4k hp when you add the crystal endurance, and you are not at 4k yourself when you arrive in coruscant.

 

So the changes is probably more accentuated on lower levels sync actually, but when you realise that the FP lv 65 (heroic even) have been created to be solo, i dare you to go inside with a feable companion (i do not speak for those mighty tank who always soloed a lot of instances and even ops --a lot on Youtube and were so proud to show off what they could do when us poor soul were poorly trying to succeed on a simple heroic --.

 

Without a feeble companion you will die when you will have 3 waves rushing at you with a boss constantly spaming deadly attacks : i am not a uber player but i am not such a pity and though there is part of those that are really not easy.

 

Also why no one realised that the instances have been tweaked too ? the instances that were H4 are now h2 so yes there are easier, so what ? oh please BW raise the difficulty of all the instances, they all want a lot of true challenge ......

Edited October 27, 2015 by Moranae

[Vember]

There most definitely was a way to fail in 3.0. If you did nothing but send your companion in to attack

 

Why would you? Why do that now?

Edited October 27, 2015 by Vember

[Darth-Obvious]

The people complaining about Companions being too OP haven't solo'd The Star Fortress (Heroic) yet. It's possible to do it solo, there's an Achievement for it.

 

The people complaining about them being too OP would suddenly complain that their companions aren't powerful enough to solo the final Heroic boss of Star Fortress, or would complain that having to raise their Influence to level 50 just so the companions would be more effective is ridiculous.

 

It's a no win situation no matter what they do with companions.

[JDiablos]

The people complaining about Companions being too OP haven't solo'd The Star Fortress (Heroic) yet. It's possible to do it solo, there's an Achievement for it.

 

The people complaining about them being too OP would suddenly complain that their companions aren't powerful enough to solo the final Heroic boss of Star Fortress, or would complain that having to raise their Influence to level 50 just so the companions would be more effective is ridiculous.

 

It's a no win situation no matter what they do with companions.

 

'The one and only' is the title.. I solo'd it in the quest greens you get from the chapter 1-9 story. To be fair my companion was at level 30 influence and I do have a lot of presence buffs unlocked. I couldn't do it as a DPS with a healer companion because my healer companion held too much aggro and took too much damage from standing in stuff and then died. So I had to switch my stance to a tank stance and put guard on her to do it, after that neither of us have gotten below 90% health in any of the runs I've done of Heroic Star Fortress. That's without the buff. With the buff it's like babytown frolic in there.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

All the support for the current state of combat is proving is that MMO gaming as we used to know it is going to face a slow and ugly death.

 

What we will be left with is less game and more interactive movie such as KoTFE.

 

What I don't get is why even bother having mobs, elites etc. etc. if they were going to be so inconsequential that your companion can beat them solo?

There are no rewards to be gained, no exp to be gained after 65- there is just no point.

 

Might as well as just have had boss fight to boss fight except they needed the game chapters to seem artificially longer than they actually are so they added in a "chore" for people to do which they are lapping up.

 

Makes me see why games like Disney infinity succeed which is pretty much what this game has become now with a slightly higher rating ( Teen or whatever it is ).

 

Having finished the new story content I can say the story is the best I've come across in this game to date but the crap filler has really put me off wanting to ever try running it on a non stealth character.

 

Love new companions/game easiness or hate it ... as it stands there is no point in putting mobs into this game anymore as it stands ... it's just a waste of your time because even the exp they granted before hitting 65 was moot because the game will always make you 65 by chapter 6 start.

 

If they are going to continue down this path of lack of ANY difficulty I seriously hope they revisit their thinking around development resources wasted into mobs etc. and refocus that development into something else that can still be fun even though the game is so mind numbingly easy.

 

As to the "just dismiss your companion" crowd, no one should have to do that just to feel like slightly challenged. The entire expansion was designed around companions, their stories, our relationship with them etc. If we then have to do it all solo to actually feel like we're playing a game what was the point in that focus?

[Teladis]

All the support for the current state of combat is proving is that MMO gaming as we used to know it is going to face a slow and ugly death.

 

What we will be left with is less game and more interactive movie such as KoTFE.

 

What I don't get is why even bother having mobs, elites etc. etc. if they were going to be so inconsequential that your companion can beat them solo?

There are no rewards to be gained, no exp to be gained after 65- there is just no point.

 

Might as well as just have had boss fight to boss fight except they needed the game chapters to seem artificially longer than they actually are so they added in a "chore" for people to do which they are lapping up.

 

Makes me see why games like Disney infinity succeed which is pretty much what this game has become now with a slightly higher rating ( Teen or whatever it is ).

 

Having finished the new story content I can say the story is the best I've come across in this game to date but the crap filler has really put me off wanting to ever try running it on a non stealth character.

 

Love new companions/game easiness or hate it ... as it stands there is no point in putting mobs into this game anymore as it stands ... it's just a waste of your time because even the exp they granted before hitting 65 was moot because the game will always make you 65 by chapter 6 start.

 

If they are going to continue down this path of lack of ANY difficulty I seriously hope they revisit their thinking around development resources wasted into mobs etc. and refocus that development into something else that can still be fun even though the game is so mind numbingly easy.

 

As to the "just dismiss your companion" crowd, no one should have to do that just to feel like slightly challenged. The entire expansion was designed around companions, their stories, our relationship with them etc. If we then have to do it all solo to actually feel like we're playing a game what was the point in that focus?

 

All I see is blah blah things not going my way. Blah blah Oh noes game is too easy now. Blah blah why can't i have tedious combat.

[deathsg]

If you click on your companions image there is a option to DISMISS COMPANION. if you think they are too OP then dismiss them and do everything yourself. Problem solved.

[ivanhedgehog]

Forget more of a challenge. Lets start with a little challenge. She tanked everything and barley took any damage. How can you say i should take my armor off? They didn't even attack me so that didn't come into play.

 

What does changing my weapon do? oh right absolutely nothing.

 

your challenge seems to be directing how every one else plays. have you thought about getting a job in the mmo industry? you seem to be putting a lot of effort into getting things nerfed. surely you are bright enough to set your own play experience to a desired level?

[Sposchel]

When Treek made her venue on the game, people cried the same : She is so powerful ! and then silence. And you could see Treek more and more on the game.

 

Why ? Why? so much are complaining now and said nothing before ?

 

In my personal opinion, I never cared whether or not Treek was OP.

 

It didn't bother me, because I didn't have to use her as a companion. I got to choose to use my normal companions. If they seemed weak, it was a choice I could make to gear them up. If they seemed too powerful, it was my choice to hold off for a while on gearing them further. I got to enjoy being with my companions, all of whom were unique (not anymore), appreciate them for their personalities, strengths and weaknesses, and choose how powerful or not they were through gearing.

 

Now? Not anymore. That choice is gone. As long as I want to adventure with a companion, they will be at a power level that I think is too high. I understand that other people might like it, but I no longer have the choice to not use a companion that I think is too powerful. Unlike when Treek was released, at which time I decided I didn't want a companion that powerful, and got to say no to her, and still enjoy gameplay with the companions I knew and loved.

[Max_Killjoy]

So let me see if I understand this correctly....if there is a mechanic in the game....gear, weapon, mode, etc that makes the game too easy you are going to use it and then complain about it?

 

MOST GAMES on the market currently have players running a game solo. MOST have some kind of "pet" class, where as this game has ALL "pet" classes.

 

Companion use has been easy mode since the game was launched. This is more about folks trying to make the game more difficult than it is about people being forced to play in a way they dont wish IMO.

 

It is an attempt to go back in time.

 

Frankly, IMO, companions were fine the way they were....and there was no need for a level sync. Want level sync? The companions stay as they are.

 

Want companions to return to pre-3.0? Campaign for the removal of level sync, or at least make it a toggle.

 

Well said.

[LordArtemis]

Here is a possible solution. Make the bonus that you receive for all 8 cleared stories a Legacy unlock. The removal of that bonus should provide players that wish it some relief. Also, you could have diminishing returns but DRASTICALLY increase bonus presence from legacy unlocks.

 

This would keep companions as they are for those that like it that way (with the purchase of some unlocks), keep them exactly the same at very low to mid level (under 45), and still provide players with a companion that is 3.0 if they so desire it.