Best in Slot Augments and Relics (For DPS)

[Metthew]

The math is slightly faulty, the multiplier you have is ~1.03 so your increase is ~3%.

 

On burst vs. sustained, it really depends on the spec, doesn't it? I would go for maximising expected damage of Ambush + Takedown, my best finisher as a MM sniper, while as a dotspec sorc I would take anything to increase sustain, including alacrity (which you can ignore as a burst-spec unless you're Carnage Mara or a duelist). The former case led you to get to %105 accuracy, then stack power/surge, in the previous patch.

 

Feeling lazy, so I just went with that route again.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Metthew

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

The math is slightly faulty, the multiplier you have is ~1.03 so your increase is ~3%.

 

On burst vs. sustained, it really depends on the spec, doesn't it? I would go for maximising expected damage of Ambush + Takedown, my best finisher as a MM sniper, while as a dotspec sorc I would take anything to increase sustain, including alacrity (which you can ignore as a burst-spec unless you're Carnage Mara or a duelist). The former case led you to get to %105 accuracy, then stack power/surge, in the previous patch.

 

Feeling lazy, so I just went with that route again.

 

Yes, i note in the OP that this is for burst spec dps, not sustained, such as madness

[DarthOvertone]

So even on rotational auto-crit classes, Power augments are Best in Slot. Mastery augments are all around worse than both Power and Critical augments and should not be used.

 

Based on this math, Best in Slot relics are now Devastating Vengeance + Serendipitous Assault for maximum DPS as well as Burst. I hope this helps some of you and if you see anything incorrect in my math, let me know please!

 

Bro...thank you for grinding the maths. I suspected Focused Retribution had fallen out of favor. Glad I waited to blow my Comms on the second relic. +1

Edited October 26, 2015 by DarthOvertone

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Bro...thank you for grinding the maths. I suspected Focused Retribution had fallen out of favor. Glad I waited to blow my Comms on the second relic. +1

 

Do note, FR is still beneficial for sustained compared to DV. You would want FR on a Madness sorc for example. DV provides better potential burst windows however for all burst specs.

[Giliodor]

According to the match, the more crit you add over power, the less damage you do on an auto crit. The caveat to this is that the only place you can even replace crit with power is on the augment slot. Regardless, the math shows that full power augments out perform full crit augments for auto crit abilities.

 

Could you tell me how Bonus Damage affects the skill's damage? Or is the only way to really know reading the actual skill damage from the tooltip? If you tell me that, I'll be able to do the math for myself - because it seems kind of weird that crit doesn't give more of a benefit on autocrits than power.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Giliodor

[Pearlie]

I appreciate your effort here. Also, cool. I've been running power augments since launch.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Could you tell me how Bonus Damage affects the skill's damage? Or is the only way to really know reading the actual skill damage from the tooltip? If you tell me that, I'll be able to do the math for myself - because it seems kind of weird that crit doesn't give more of a benefit on autocrits than power.

 

Just take the minimum tool tip damage and add it to the maximum and divide by 2.

 

From there, ONLY replace crit augments with power augments to figure your averages.

 

From there the math is simple and you'll see, even on auto crits, power is still better.

[ichebem]

Have you calaculated with half crit / half power?

 

and what about "Mainstat" (or whatever it is called) ?

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Have you calaculated with half crit / half power?

 

and what about "Mainstat" (or whatever it is called) ?

 

This is what happens when you start replacing crit for mastery, 1 by 1.

 

Math from 13 Critical Augments, 1 Mastery Augment. Everything else is the same as the original test:

 

Crit Chance: 44.04% 
Surge: 74.39%
Average Tooltip Assassinate: 7998.5 Damage
Critical Assassinate will do: 13,948.58 Damage

Using the same 100 hits in 60 seconds as the OP:
Assuming 44 Critical hits you'll do: 613,737.52
Assuming 56 non critical hits, you'll do: 447,916
This equals: 1,061,653.52  damage done. Divided by 60 seconds = [color="Red"]17,694.23 DPS[/color]

 

Full Critical Augments gave: 17,705.62 Damage per Second

13 Critical, 1 Mastery Augment gives: 17,694.23 Damage Per Second

 

Divide them: 17,705.62 / 17,694.23 = 1.00064

 

Edit: Mastery augments are 1% WORSE than Critical augments.

 

Mastery augments are trash.

 

Note, you lose DPS when replacing Crit augs with Mastery. Since Power is > Crit, that gives us this:

Power > Crit > Mastery, for augments.

 

As far as going half and half, yes, I did start to do that and you run in to some pretty strange results. Basically, you gain .001% DPS increase each time you swap out 1 Power augment for 1 Critical one up until the 3rd or 4th augment, after that, you start going down in DPS until you are eventually geared in full critical augments, which produces 1% less DPS/Burst damage than full power.

 

I think this has something to do with the DR, but I'm unsure.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[So-low]

I've noticed a large DPS gain on PT since swapping to crit/alacrity split in overall stats slightly favoring crit. Sitting at 67% crit multi on that class, as well as 11% alacrity or so.

 

Mag blast still gets 9-11k crits, 11-13k railshots, 12-14k thermal dets, 20-25k energy burst.

 

As long as I can keep up with the much faster gcd this gear is doing more damage, and can burst way faster / more often.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I've noticed a large DPS gain on PT since swapping to crit/alacrity split in overall stats slightly favoring crit. Sitting at 67% crit multi on that class, as well as 11% alacrity or so.

 

Mag blast still gets 9-11k crits, 11-13k railshots, 12-14k thermal dets, 20-25k energy burst.

 

As long as I can keep up with the much faster gcd this gear is doing more damage, and can burst way faster / more often.

 

The DPS gain is due to the way that Alacrity works. I was discussing this over in the Sin forums with someone else. I did tests with Alacrity as well, alacrity does increase your DPS, but does NOT increase your damage during non crits and even on crits, and it's even worse on Auto-Crit abilities.

 

Alacrity is good for the sustained DPS increase. It provides nothing to your burst damage, however.

 

Edit: Not only that, but the actual disparity in DPS between Alacrity and Crit/Surge or Power augments is so miniscule that I do not find value in it given the damage potential that you're giving up in say, the duration of a hard stun, just as an example.

 

These augments are geared to reduce TTK while Alacrity is meant to benefit from longer TTK.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[ichebem]

I still dont get it.

 

Ok. i can accept with full Crit. There is a DR, its worse than full AP.

 

But i cant imagine, that AP is the better stat. Ofc there is a certain point where AP gets more value than crit, but i expect this point @around 1000/1200 Crit rating.

 

So, how many Crit does your gear have? we are always speaking only about the augments... if you have already 1000 crit @gear, and than put another 1000 @ augments... ok. Power would be stronger...

 

You should also take into consideration, that power doesn´t give you a linear boost. Ofc there is no DR return. But if i add 20 Force-Tech towards 1000, or towards 2000 Force tech, is a huge different in gained dps. if you think "%"

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I still dont get it.

 

Ok. i can accept with full Crit. There is a DR, its worse than full AP.

 

But i cant imagine, that AP is the better stat. Ofc there is a certain point where AP gets more value than crit, but i expect this point @around 1000/1200 Crit rating.

 

So, how many Crit does your gear have? we are always speaking only about the augments... if you have already 1000 crit @gear, and than put another 1000 @ augments... ok. Power would be stronger...

 

You should also take into consideration, that power doesn´t give you a linear boost. Ofc there is no DR return. But if i add 20 Force-Tech towards 1000, or towards 2000 Force tech, is a huge different in gained dps. if you think "%"

 

I don't understand your question specifically. Power is constant, if you have 1k power or 2k power, it will always have the same value. Force/Tech bonus damage is also affected by your main stat, which I don't think you're considering.

 

As far as how much crit to begin with, I state in the OP the variables of my gear.

[So-low]

The DPS gain is due to the way that Alacrity works. I was discussing this over in the Sin forums with someone else. I did tests with Alacrity as well, alacrity does increase your DPS, but does NOT increase your damage during non crits and even on crits, and it's even worse on Auto-Crit abilities.

 

Alacrity is good for the sustained DPS increase. It provides nothing to your burst damage, however.

 

Edit: Not only that, but the actual disparity in DPS between Alacrity and Crit/Surge or Power augments is so miniscule that I do not find value in it given the damage potential that you're giving up in say, the duration of a hard stun, just as an example.

 

These augments are geared to reduce TTK while Alacrity is meant to benefit from longer TTK.

 

I would argue that since alacrity will make you get your burst back 10% faster or so that it does affect your burst damage, in that you can burst more often.

 

Keep in mind I am thinking about gearing in a trinity scenario with tank/heals, for example in team ranked where games last a while.

[Dethla-Hadyn]

 

These augments are geared to reduce TTK while Alacrity is meant to benefit from longer TTK.

 

From pure burst perspectives, good thread. However alacrity isn't exclusively as you say it is, when one considers the decreased gcd. It would allow increased ability application, inviting quicker crit-streaks but the averages or advantages of such are completely debatable for different classes and contexts, when considering the mild "upfront" dps losses of equipping alacrity. I think with the power of focus fire in 4dps vs 4dps arenas, both arguments are rendered obsolete.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I would argue that since alacrity will make you get your burst back 10% faster or so that it does affect your burst damage, in that you can burst more often.

 

Keep in mind I am thinking about gearing in a trinity scenario with tank/heals, for example in team ranked where games last a while.

 

You can't gear enough alacrity for that to matter for a burst spec though. Even at 10% Alacrity, you can only force 1 extra burst window in every 225 seconds on average, which is every 4 minutes

[djcetra]

My biggest issue with this is that it's an "All or nothing" answer, by that I mean you're implying you should go all Crit or all Power which I feel is a mistake personally. A mixture of Crit to a certain % and the rest Power is what works for me, I'm guaranteed a certain amount of sustained dmg to a point with a decent chance for crit off auto. This can vary from person to person depending on what they're incline to do situationally.

 

I also find the Crit Relic only Viable if you're running low crit chance, for my setup I'm at 40% Crit give or take and the rest is power. For me, it would be stupid to use the Crit relic instead of Power/Mastery but the extra crit chance is highly unlikely to apply while the Mastery dmg is guaranteed on Proc.

 

Theory Craft and the math is all good and fun for some I guess but it's hard to align math with RNG. Also, once you tweak your Crit Chance to a certain percentage and/or at least bring your guaranteed power/dmg to a preferred number a few points here and there aren't going to win any games for anyone or get you the top slot on dmg boards, how you perform in the wz will.

 

Kudos on spending the time on that, I couldn't fathom caring enough to pour that type of effort into this game at this stage.

 

/respectz

 

You can't gear enough alacrity for that to matter for a burst spec though. Even at 10% Alacrity, you can only force 1 extra burst window in every 225 seconds on average, which is every 4 minutes

 

Also, I agree with this. Alacrity for burst is a waste, no brainer IMO. For Sorc healing I tend to go about 70/30 Crit/Alac and Ops 50/50 or 60/40 in favor of Alacrity as they're much more hot dependent.

Edited October 26, 2015 by djcetra

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

That's also assuming 100% uptime, so you can't be stunned or use suboptimal abilities like CC since they break the main rotation which delays burst windows

[ichebem]

OFC i am considering Force/Tech Damage.

Correct me if i am wrong, but most Abilities scale with Force/Tech Damage and not with Power.

Example:

If i have 2000 Force-Power, and add 100 Points of Power, this will mean, after that i will have

2023 Force-Power. So there is a Force Power gain of 1,15%

But if i have 4000 Force-Power and add 100 power Points, i will end @

4023 Force-Power, which is only +0,575%

So Although Power has no Dimishing return, it does not scale linear, it depends on your gear and on how much power do you already have. Or am i wrong?

 

 

Furthermore there is a DR @Crit.

You wrote about changing augments from Power to Crit & then you compared tooltips damage.

Question: How much Crit is on your Gear without augments. (Cant imagine you have a gear without crit, because this would mean you have tons of alacrity, which you obviously dislike).

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

My biggest issue with this is that it's an "All or nothing" answer, by that I mean you're implying you should go all Crit or all Power which I feel is a mistake personally. A mixture of Crit to a certain % and the rest Power is what works for me, I'm guaranteed a certain amount of sustained dmg to a point with a decent chance for crit off auto. This can very from person to person depending on what they're incline to do situationally.

 

I also find the Crit Relic only Viable if you're running low crit chance, for my setup I'm at 40% Crit give or take and the rest is power. For me, it would be stupid to use the Crit relic instead of Power/Mastery but the extra crit chance is highly unlikely to apply while the Mastery dmg is guaranteed on Proc.

 

Theory Craft and the math is all good and fun for some I guess but it's hard to align math with RNG. Also, once you tweak your Crit Chance to a certain percentage and/or at least bring your guaranteed power/dmg to a preferred number a few points here and there aren't going to win any games for anyone or get you the top slot on dmg boards, how you perform in the wz will.

 

Kudos on spending the time on that, I couldn't fathom caring enough to pour that type of effort into this game at this stage.

 

/respectz

 

 

 

Also, I agree with this. Alacrity for burst is a waste, no brainer IMO. For Sorc healing I tend to go about 70/30 Crit/Alac and Ops 50/50 or 60/40 in favor of Alacrity as they're much more hot dependent.

 

This is true, but I cbf with doing 14 separate tests, swapping one aug at a time to find out the exact break point

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

OFC i am considering Force/Tech Damage.

Correct me if i am wrong, but most Abilities scale with Force/Tech Damage and not with Power.

Example:

If i have 2000 Force-Power, and add 100 Points of Power, this will mean, after that i will have

2023 Force-Power. So there is a Force Power gain of 1,15%

But if i have 4000 Force-Power and add 100 power Points, i will end @

4023 Force-Power, which is only +0,575%

So Although Power has no Dimishing return, it does not scale linear, it depends on your gear and on how much power do you already have. Or am i wrong?

 

 

Furthermore there is a DR @Crit.

You wrote about changing augments from Power to Crit & then you compared tooltips damage.

Question: How much Crit is on your Gear without augments. (Cant imagine you have a gear without crit, because this would mean you have tons of alacrity, which you obviously dislike).

 

Force and tech damage is derivative of power mainstat....

[ichebem]

Force and tech damage is derivative of power mainstat....

 

ofc... and thats the reason why you dont get a linear benefit out of power. But its not important, i am more interested in the question: "How much Crit do you have @your Gear without Augments?"

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

My gear without augments has full crit enhancements. I think you are here in this thread for the wrong purpose, or are misguided about what the OP is for.

 

The OP IS for gearing up for MAXIMUM possible burst in between burst windows on classes and specs that are based on burst damage in an effort to keep TTK to an absolute minimum. Because of this, you do not want alacrity or accuracy because they do not contribute to burst.

 

The OP is NOT for how to min/max for SUSTAINED specs. For that, you would in fact want some degree of Alacrity and/or Accuracy. It also would not push crit this far into the DR because you would be less concerned with raw damage and LOW TTK and more concerned with long term pressure that eventually kills multiple people at the same time, over time.

 

If your goals are to achieve something in between those two statements above then you will have to use this math as a foundation an push it one step further with your own calculations. If you need my already complete alacrity formulas then let me know and I can provide you with the information to crunch the numbers for yourself to determine a balance between sustain and burst.

[Arunas]

I would like to see the math behind this.

 

All crit enhancements
14 mastery augs                               14 crit augs                      14 power augs
crit: 39.86%                                      crit: 42.57%                   crit: 39.10%
surge: 78.72%                                  surge: 82.20%               surge: 78.72%
raging burst no crit:    6820                 6561                               6859
raging burstautocrit: 16374.87         16218.46                       16426.59

 

% are on my actual character in 208 with some datacrons missing, and biggest autocrit calculated based on tooltip max value and supercrit formula

Tooltip value * (1 + 0.01 * crit mutilplier * (1 + 0.01 * crit) + 0.15 shockwave + 0.15 furious rage buff)

Edited October 26, 2015 by Arunas

[power-alex]

Thank you for your effort!

 

Now I'm not a top tier player, so what your math proved to me is that you can't go wrong basically: crit, power or main stat or any mixture of them, and you end up with numbers that are within 1% of the optimal dps.

Taking into account game mechanics: ccs, escapes, dcds etc., this 1% doesn't really decide anything. You will still be able to put out decent sustained damage in trinity or dps+heals matches. And you will still have enough burst for 1v1 or 4 dps vs 4 dps. Not to mention regs where 1% increase is irrelevant.