Is This Really What People Want??

[GalacticKegger]

Server pops are listed as "Standard" on high pop realms because Bioware upped the server cap, Ebon Hawk most planets I've been on past balmorra/taris(level 20's) have had multiple maps at all kinds of hours for the first time since double xp weekends.

As API access is verboten, any server pop number will be little more than a proprietary guesstimate. Edited November 6, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[Mikahrone]

That is true. The fundamental difference, though, is that neither KOTOR game required a subscription. Even if released today as full-on $60 games, that would still only equate to four months of SWTOR at the regular month-by-month price.

 

So, for SWTOR to maintain subscriptions throughout a year, which is obviously what EA is going for with this KoFTE must subscribe, cannot buy it separately like the previous two expansions, they are going to need to also continue the MMO elements along with it. And I mean new MMO elements.

 

I'm not even a raider in SWTOR, not even close, and already after playing the story four times, and seeing the Alliance system just once, I'm on the fence about continuing to subscribe, or just waiting until six, or all seven, of the remaining chapters are released and then just subscribing then for a month or so to see them. I've done the Flashpoints to death, and have already done Star Fortress to death. I can't fathom grinding out the Alliance supply crates through the same old Heroics over and over again on more than one character. After already seeing the same story four times now, my other level 60 Alts look to just rot. The story is good, but not that good.

 

So unless they have a magic rabbit up their sleeve, I cannot imagine KoTFE sustaining the game as it stands, when eight individual class stories alone could not sustain it at launch. Thus F2P a mere 11 months later, and the game surviving primarily thanks to the Cartel Market.

 

Neither KOTOR had monthly story update either. And starting SWTOR (KOTFE) today only needs 15$ for sub.

 

You AGAIN disregard that STORY at launch was buried under HEAVY LOAD of MMO crappings. THATS why most players left. Something that 12x xp and now KOTFE rectified. You dont need to do any of generic MMO stuff to play story from start to end any more.

 

Yes, they made big mistake on launch making game for WoW players instead their own customers. Game will NEVER recover from that unofrtunately.

 

But even despite all that story is what carried SWTOR so far, and that would be LAUNCH story as all MMO stuff was barely used despite all updates until 3.0 (and big part of 3.0) were WoW player focused.

[Mikahrone]

You do know they don't track anything over Very Heavy... And I am not even sure they track Very Heavy accurately, because I know for damn sure that Harb was Very Heavy and Full during some of the listed times for a couple hours. And for population trend, they don't even check against anything higher then Heavy...

 

I mean hell the website has not even had a tracked update in over 3 YEARS!

 

They dont track anything over heavy because there was no need to have flat line for past 3 years. You have heavy+ that tracks anything heavy and above. And what certain posters fail to understand from very simple graph is that serevrs have increased their time in heavy+ 2,5-3 times over pre release ramp up AND infintely over most of the year where most of the servers NEVER past to heavy with odd server going heavy during odd event.

 

not to mention they have to raise server caps, so most likely tresholds were increased accordingly.

[ALaggyGrunt]

The other thing this game has which is unique to it is that starfighter game "nobody" plays. It's a weird threespace game which doesn't really go with this kind of game, and a little hard for someone who's only ever played FPS and modern MMOs to wrap their heads around.

 

Something else I don't know if anyone's noticed:

KOTOR had lots of grind to it. If you wanted to hit level cap on KOTOR 1, you pretty much had to do a lot of side quests. If you wanted your companions to hit level cap, you had to do all of them. But, since it was a single-player game, you could cheat and nobody cared.

Edited November 6, 2015 by ALaggyGrunt

[Glower]

I'm already bored with this epic story.

 

Yes it nice and fun for the first time. But you can see all these flaws instantly on the second playthrough, even with opposite "choices". Third playthrough? Please...

 

MMO without MMO part is not why i'm stuck here for 4 years. Right now it's just the Interactive Drama (PlayStation 4 genre...) based on old MMO skeleton. So NO, my answer is NO!

[LordArtemis]

Best post ever!

 

No, it really isnt.

[Luesarim]

I wanted story but I wanted to be able to play with my friend. I can't. This New story forces us to play alone for HOURS and then meet up for like a second and then gone for hours again. Dumb. We both played through the story once and now don't even want to do it with our other toons because it'll just be the same and we'll be alone again.

[MikeRindos]

I wanted story but I wanted to be able to play with my friend. I can't. This New story forces us to play alone for HOURS and then meet up for like a second and then gone for hours again. Dumb. We both played through the story once and now don't even want to do it with our other toons because it'll just be the same and we'll be alone again.

 

That's how I feel about it.

[heythereqt]

Server pops are listed as "Standard" on high pop realms because Bioware upped the server cap, Ebon Hawk most planets I've been on past balmorra/taris(level 20's) have had multiple maps at all kinds of hours for the first time since double xp weekends.

 

^ This too

[Shipwright]

I wanted story but I wanted to be able to play with my friend. I can't. This New story forces us to play alone for HOURS and then meet up for like a second and then gone for hours again. Dumb. We both played through the story once and now don't even want to do it with our other toons because it'll just be the same and we'll be alone again.

 

You can play together still, somewhat like playing class missions together ( only one person advances their story at a time).

 

Make a group, then right click your portrait. The drop down menu will have "group", and then 'summon group". It will bring group members to you.

 

It is a bit different mechanically than having someone come along on a 1-50 class quest, but it is essentially the same in the end. You can play a,long with a friend still.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

People didn't even want TOR to be an mmo to begin with, we wanted KOTOR 3 and in a way we're getting it.

 

You don't speak for anyone but yourself, sir. Even if others agree with you, they each speak for themselves.

 

You absolutely do not speak for me.

 

So here, let me fix it for you...

 

I didn't even want TOR to be an mmo to begin with, I wanted KOTOR 3 and in a way I'm getting it.

Edited November 6, 2015 by AbsolutGrndZero

[Xintross]

SWG being forced to shut down for this game's launch is pretty much a testament to how very, very little people realize you could have out of an MMO, especially if coupled with today's technology.

 

That's just the way things have shifted in the past 10 years though. More people would rather be pulled along by the nose in some linear story with a definitive ending rather than experience "the greatest saga ever told... yours."

[robertthebard]

This post should be put onto Reddit or any big name gaming site as it sums up why the game is falling apart. If people want story then go get a book or a single player game, this is an MMO and it should have MMO content. F2P isn't going to help them that much longer, and from what I've been reading Disney may take a look at that contract they have with EA after Battlefront bombs in a few weeks.

 

Really TOR is just yet another slap in the face to us gamers this year. I think we'll see some huge changes next year with just about all the big name titles looking like they are going to bomb.

 

I was thinking it needed to be run through Myth Busters, because server populations, and the recent upgrade sure make it a myth perpetuated by the "I didn't get an Op, or a WZ" crowd.

[zalanii]

Just single player story?

No

 

I resubbed because I was bored, didn't even know there was an expansion, being told that there's no new Ops kinda bums me out because I love group pve content, it's a great vehicle for story and teamwork.

 

A game without raiding, means no need for guilds, which means no need for community, which means no need to play longer than a month.

 

I'll play through the story stuff, maybe join a few groups for old Ops and when the month runs out...see ya

 

Also this is THE worst community of people out of any MMO I've ever played, I've never seen so many sycophants in one area that are completely unable to criticize anything this precious game does and shouts "ELITIST HARDCORE RAIDERRRRRZZZZ!" as an insult to anything that is against this game being a single player game with dress up that costs 15 dollars a month.

 

Wanting this MMO to have MMO elements doesn't make me a hardcore raider, it makes me an MMO fan.

 

I love Mass Effect, but that doesn't mean I want to log into Mass Effect everyday on the Normandy and talk to my ship mates after I've finished the game for 5 years straight. I want there to be a reason to log on continuously.

 

Raiding is what led me to meet friends I still talk to 10 years later

Raiding helped me learn management

Raiding helped my confidence

Raiding was fun, whether it was my more hardcore days, or the ultra raiding casual I ended up doing towards the end.

 

Simply it was fun, and demanding that this game can only cater to the "casual" player base by completely alienating everyone else is just stupid.

 

If this wasn't a Star Wars game it would already be dead, or have a skeleton crew of players like every other non Korean MMO

 

TL;DR: This being a single player game with voice acting isn't what I wanted in 2011, and it isn't what I wanted in 2015

Edited November 7, 2015 by zalanii

[bradmiller]

its not what I wanted.i bought the game to play the game not watch the lame cartoons.if I wanted that id watch clone wars.this game has been junk since launch and is just getting worse and easier for scrub players.i stuck it out this long cause like you said,i loved star wars.i personally will not give any money to anything star wars ever again seing the way they are headed with the games and movies.crafting is pointless anymore,gearing is the easiest thing in the world,its cool how all strongholds r in the same exact spot on the givin planets.wow the view from your window is the same exactly as mine.ODD.

[Jumajin]

Just single player story?

No

 

I resubbed because I was bored, didn't even know there was an expansion, being told that there's no new Ops kinda bums me out because I love group pve content, it's a great vehicle for story and teamwork.

 

A game without raiding, means no need for guilds, which means no need for community, which means no need to play longer than a month.

 

I'll play through the story stuff, maybe join a few groups for old Ops and when the month runs out...see ya

 

Also this is THE worst community of people out of any MMO I've ever played, I've never seen so many sycophants in one area that are completely unable to criticize anything this precious game does and shouts "ELITIST HARDCORE RAIDERRRRRZZZZ!" as an insult to anything that is against this game being a single player game with dress up that costs 15 dollars a month.

 

Wanting this MMO to have MMO elements doesn't make me a hardcore raider, it makes me an MMO fan.

 

I love Mass Effect, but that doesn't mean I want to log into Mass Effect everyday on the Normandy and talk to my ship mates after I've finished the game for 5 years straight. I want there to be a reason to log on continuously.

 

Raiding is what led me to meet friends I still talk to 10 years later

Raiding helped me learn management

Raiding helped my confidence

Raiding was fun, whether it was my more hardcore days, or the ultra raiding casual I ended up doing towards the end.

 

Simply it was fun, and demanding that this game can only cater to the "casual" player base by completely alienating everyone else is just stupid.

 

If this wasn't a Star Wars game it would already be dead, or have a skeleton crew of players like every other non Korean MMO

 

TL;DR: This being a single player game with voice acting isn't what I wanted in 2011, and it isn't what I wanted in 2015

 

Although I am not a SWTOR raider myself, I'm yet finding myself more in agreement with this post than any other in 4 years reading these forums.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Jumajin

[Mikahrone]

Just single player story?

No

 

I resubbed because I was bored, didn't even know there was an expansion, being told that there's no new Ops kinda bums me out because I love group pve content, it's a great vehicle for story and teamwork.

 

A game without raiding, means no need for guilds, which means no need for community, which means no need to play longer than a month.

 

I'll play through the story stuff, maybe join a few groups for old Ops and when the month runs out...see ya

 

Also this is THE worst community of people out of any MMO I've ever played, I've never seen so many sycophants in one area that are completely unable to criticize anything this precious game does and shouts "ELITIST HARDCORE RAIDERRRRRZZZZ!" as an insult to anything that is against this game being a single player game with dress up that costs 15 dollars a month.

 

Wanting this MMO to have MMO elements doesn't make me a hardcore raider, it makes me an MMO fan.

 

I love Mass Effect, but that doesn't mean I want to log into Mass Effect everyday on the Normandy and talk to my ship mates after I've finished the game for 5 years straight. I want there to be a reason to log on continuously.

 

Raiding is what led me to meet friends I still talk to 10 years later

Raiding helped me learn management

Raiding helped my confidence

Raiding was fun, whether it was my more hardcore days, or the ultra raiding casual I ended up doing towards the end.

 

Simply it was fun, and demanding that this game can only cater to the "casual" player base by completely alienating everyone else is just stupid.

 

If this wasn't a Star Wars game it would already be dead, or have a skeleton crew of players like every other non Korean MMO

 

TL;DR: This being a single player game with voice acting isn't what I wanted in 2011, and it isn't what I wanted in 2015

 

Since "filthy casual" comprise 95% of playerbase, its not really a big deal to "alienate everyone else". Especially when those 5% demand 95% resurces dedicated to them as they are such special snowflakes.

 

And just because you were bored and decided to sub on a whim, game should suddenly do 180 and focus everything on you, right?

 

You got the game you wanted in 2011. And rest is history.

 

And game now has more endgame than ever. Buuuuuuuuuut even thats not enough. THATS why they wont cater to you any more. Also the attitude you quite nicely show in your post. Its very unhealthy for game to cherish such people.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Mikahrone

[zalanii]

Since "filthy casual" comprise 95% of playerbase, its not really a big deal to "alienate everyone else".

 

And just because you were bored and decided to sub on a whim, game should suddenly do 180 and focus everything on you, right?

 

You got the game you wanted in 2011. And rest is history.

 

And game now has more endgame than ever. Buuuuuuuuuut even thats not enough. THATS why they wont cater to you any more.

 

 

Yep let's ensure this is a single player game you sub 15 dollars a month and have no reason to keep playing!

 

That's an amazing strategy, alienate pvpers, organized group players...who wants to play with their MMO community?

 

Definitely not the players here, since they've been moaning about this game since release but hey they get to talk to Corso Riggs in their ship 10 times. Sounds amazing

 

Casual players raid, do flashpoints, and pvp too. Do you think casuals only level alts or something? Damn I should tell the new guild I joined to stop doing story mode operations since they're casual.

[Mikahrone]

Yep let's ensure this is a single player game you sub 15 dollars a month and have no reason to keep playing!

 

That's an amazing strategy, alienate pvpers, organized group players...who wants to play with their MMO community?

 

Definitely not the players here, since they've been moaning about this game since release but hey they get to talk to Corso Riggs in their ship 10 times. Sounds amazing

 

Casual players raid, do flashpoints, and pvp too. Do you think casuals only level alts or something? Damn I should tell the new guild I joined to stop doing story mode operations since they're casual.

 

Farming same boss for months to have my irrelevant number no.354 go from 125641561 to 126252165 is not reason to keep playing for 95%. And i bet you there are more PvPers than raiders.

 

And what PvPers have to do with anything. If ANYONE should complain its PvPers as game catered to raiders 90% in past 4-5 years and PvPers got biggest shaft followed by story players. Instead BW spent ton of resources trying to make NiM raids. that barely anyone cared about.

 

Casual palayers do that. Except they can do without raids and have something else instead. In fact, raids do NOTHING for casual player retention.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Mikahrone

[cagthehack]

Tell you the truth I'm kind of over it. The story was fun (the first time) but after that it's just the usual rep grind. With decent PVP thrown in. But the PVP isn't good enough to keep me paying.

 

Since the story doesn't change- if you think I'm running 4 different characters through the same story, you are out of your mind. Also I'm WAY over killing droids. I mean, com'on - at least throw in something different.

 

Also after the story you are facing several rep grinds. Long rep grinds too. So it's just the same **** with a story.

 

The only way I'll be keeping my account past this month is if I see constant content releases. And no, once every 3 months isn't gonna cut it. I expect them monthly. The fact that I have to wait until 2016 is not cool with me. I'l probably let my sub run out and wait until the next chapter. And I might (might) resup then. Depending on the story.

 

But with FO4 coming, and modding for it being released in Jan 2016 I'm not holding out hope.

 

I look at it this way: I was a "founder" of this game. I left after 6 months cause the game sucked back then. I came back for Revan, and was seriously disappointed. It was (and still is) a grind with a short story. And frankly, how many lives does Revan get? It wouldn't be surprised if he popped up with the Eternal Empire.

 

I did like Makeb - well parts of it. Most of that was a grind. But at at least it wasn't killing 15 billion droids.

 

What I did like was the emperor story (after raven) and the dread master story. Yes, they were grinds, but at least you saw an end. And the action went fast. Not so with Revan or FE.

 

And the last bit, which I mentioned above: no class stories. Which makes running FE with alts a bore. Cause, except for a couple of lines of dialog, nothing really changes. You end up exactly where everyone else does: rep grinding.

 

The honeymoon is over. I see the server queues are gone.

[zalanii]

Farming same boss for months to have my irrelevant number no.354 go from 125641561 to 126252165 is not reason to keep playing for 95%. And i bet you there are more PvPers than raiders.

 

And what PvPers have to do with anything. If ANYONE should complain its PvPers as game catered to raiders 90% in past 4-5 years and PvPers got biggest shaft followed by story players. Instead BW spent ton of resources trying to make NiM raids. that barely anyone cared about.

 

Casual palayers do that. Except they can do without raids and have something else instead. In fact, raids do NOTHING for casual player retention.

 

So why sub at all?

You can play the game for the story over and over and over and over again without ever paying.

Edited November 7, 2015 by zalanii

[cagthehack]

Farming same boss for months to have my irrelevant number no.354 go from 125641561 to 126252165 is not reason to keep playing for 95%. And i bet you there are more PvPers than raiders.

 

And what PvPers have to do with anything. If ANYONE should complain its PvPers as game catered to raiders 90% in past 4-5 years and PvPers got biggest shaft followed by story players. Instead BW spent ton of resources trying to make NiM raids. that barely anyone cared about.

 

Casual palayers do that. Except they can do without raids and have something else instead. In fact, raids do NOTHING for casual player retention.

 

I'm a casual player. And I love PVP. And if the PVP in this game was great, that alone would be enough to keep me paying.

 

But it's not. So what am I left with? Grinding for rep or raiding (which is grinding). At least with pvp grinding the unexpected usually happens - no two fights are the same.

 

So I agree with you. But why not try and make both camps happy?

[Mikahrone]

So why sub at all?

You can play the game for the story over and over and over and over again without ever paying.

 

I can get much better raiding for free in other games. Whats your point? OTOH SWTOR has top story in MMO (whatever you may think of it) i pay for continuation of story, not to farm same boss for months in subpar raids.

 

Same as i dont play PvP in SWTOR for anything else than kicks. Lately i want to see how much damage i can receive in single hit. Current record is 29430.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Mikahrone

[Mikahrone]

I'm a casual player. And I love PVP. And if the PVP in this game was great, that alone would be enough to keep me paying.

 

But it's not. So what am I left with? Grinding for rep or raiding (which is grinding). At least with pvp grinding the unexpected usually happens - no two fights are the same.

 

So I agree with you. But why not try and make both camps happy?

 

Well, if they start focusing on PvP rather than raids, sure. PvP got ridiculous because they balance for PvE (read: raids)

 

Or if they split PvE and PvP and make skills do completely different stuff and damage/heal appropriate to PvP.

[zalanii]

I can get much better raiding for free in other games. Whats your point? OTOH SWTOR has top story in MMO (whatever you may think of it) i pay for continuation of story, not to farm same boss for months in subpar raids.

 

Same as i dont play PvP in SWTOR for anything else than kicks. Lately i want to see how much damage i can receive in single hit. Current record is 29430.

 

Just seems like people don't want this game to be anything, they just want to put it out of its misery for some reason.

 

This game has serious potential, and always has but I don't see that it has more than a month or two of retention for people.

 

The best ever group content I ever saw was honestly Kaon under Siege. That was amazing, and really cool, never really saw anything like that in an MMO before and I've played a couple...AND I HATE Rakghouls. HATE.

 

But if all you offer me is roughly 8 hours of content and 1 flashpoint? Why should I stay, what is Bioware offering me to stay? There's honestly more incentive to stick around and play ME3 or DA:1 after you're done thanks to multiplayer, but redoing a story over and over again or grinding a rep for no meanwhile rewards?

 

Other single player games from lesser studios do that better.

 

 

And again since people can't understand why any moron would want to kill the same boss every week?

Same reason people want to create 40 alts, they like it.

Only difference people who raid or pvp or RP do it with a community, they make friends, they use the M in the MMO.

 

 

I never thought raiding in this game was subpar, in fact compared to most MMOs it was quite engaging, and different. I mean WoW will always win for me on raiding, I think it's more or less the gold standard, but most other MMO raiding is this: Random boss we have no idea why we're killing has 500 million hit points, your job should you accept is to stack up and spam your abilities. That's it, just beat the enrage timer.

 

At least raiding in this game had phases, and transitions, and tank swaps, and dispels and crap, and story.

I had a love/hate relationship with huttball.

And many of the flashpoints were really cool, and had a lot of fun with a lot of them.

Edited November 7, 2015 by zalanii