Is This Really What People Want??

[LordArtemis]

I'm an old-fashioned mmo player.........

 

So am I. And yes, this is generally what modern MMO players want. I lament the loss of certain aspects of MMOs of old, but I had to change with the times.

 

Casuals rule the market, period. This is the current truth of the market. The market has also proven, with reasonable certainty, that old fashioned challenging MMO content is not something that provides game success. Wildstar stands as just one example.

[Molestra]

Yes.

 

The story is the only good thing about TOR. The people who think it has any other redeeming qualities are morons and delusional. The PVP is awful. The gameplay is tedious and they're making it less so. I'd rather wait 6 months for well-written content because, guess what, I don't spend all of my time playing this game. Imagine that. If you want an MMO that gives you 6 months of boring content, that's on you, go play all of the other games. GW2 has better PVP. Wildstar has better gameplay.

 

Look at my sig, bro.

 

Exactly! I returned after quitting the game 3 months after launch. I came back with the announcement of KOTFE and the 12x XP boost. Then I stopped for around 2 months or so and when KOTFE launched I came back again.

 

Currently subbed and I can finally do all the class missions with the permanent boost and the improved companion system.

 

After I done the story's I wont be staying though. The gameplay is terrible. The game plays like being stuck in mud while riding a wheelchair. Animations of everything in the game is terrible and not fluid. Combat feels laggy because of this and it just play's weird and something feels terrible off.

 

It doesn't play as smooth and fluid like WoW or WildStar.

 

If that gameplay was improved (which won't happen since that requires reanimating everything) and let's not forget the terrible graphics engine), then I would be a permanent sticker.

 

Alas, story is the only good thing this game has.

[LordArtemis]

The gameplay is terrible. The game plays like being stuck in mud while riding a wheelchair. Animations of everything in the game is terrible and not fluid. Combat feels laggy because of this and it just play's weird and something feels terrible off.

 

It doesn't play as smooth and fluid like WoW or WildStar.

 

Hence why I say the balance crusade actually hurt the game more than it helped. The original animations were fantastic, epic even, but were ruined by constant silly changes and removals.

Now most of them are a hot mess.

[Frenesi]

Hence why I say the balance crusade actually hurt the game more than it helped. The original animations were fantastic, epic even, but were ruined by constant silly changes and removals.

Now most of them are a hot mess.

 

Yea. I still remember glory days of original Tracer Missile. What a fine animation that was - bending over,again and again, while suffering from severe diareya

 

But seriously, we are walking on opinion ground here. I think most of the classes got much better animation-wise with 3.0, with the only exception of Tactics aka "CoD supersoldier" vanguard

Edited November 2, 2015 by Frenesi

[Malox]

Short answer is Yes this is what I have wanted from this game for quite a while.

 

The long answer is a litle more convoluted and difficult to answer.

 

I have been playing MMORPG games since Lineage. I have played all the major MMO's and some not so major (The Matrix Online for instance). Back early in my MMO career I was what many of you hated, a hardcore player with little time for casual players. I actually loathed them and saw them as the enemy. Now that I'm 29 and working for a living rather than going to school, I have noticed that like my time, my tastes have changed. I no longer have time for 6 hour raiding sessions or months of grinding (Hello Jedi Grinding from SWG). Now that I'm older and no longer in college and with limited play time I have realized that I'm now a casual player. I just don't have the time or patience to deal with Raids and loath PVP (honestly its about time a game sidelined PVP and focused on PVE). So now that BW has transitioned from that horrible example they first came out that I waited several years after the NGE came out for SWG and the first whispers of a BW SW game was circulating, I find myself enjoying the game again. BW has always had their strengths in their SW and while there first foray into a MMO had quite a lot of missteps this is the first step in the right direction. I look forward to the future with this game.

 

 

On a side note: it would appear that the OP is in the minority even in forum standards. If I am remember right, a study was done a few years ago that pegged the forum community at about 15% of the game population. That is very telling in this instance as it would indeed seem that these changes were wanted by a large majority of players.

[Djiini]

Casuals rule the market, period.

 

If wanting to have fun instead of wasting time on BS and grinding is casual, then call me a casual.

[TechbotAlpha]

I You don't want any new pvp content? No new operations?

 

Frankly, I couldn't care less. I'm sick to death of 'end game' for pretty much every MMO, or every MMO based off the WoW template, focussing on these things to the exclusion of all else. How about breaking the mould (except that the odd game like the late, great City of Heroes did that years ago, and everyone else is still playing catch-up) and giving us more LEVELLING content? Story content? Stuff that's NOT all end-game related and requires you to grind 'yet another 5 more levels'. because that stuff is OLD.

[Mikahrone]

So am I. And yes, this is generally what modern MMO players want. I lament the loss of certain aspects of MMOs of old, but I had to change with the times.

 

Casuals rule the market, period. This is the current truth of the market. The market has also proven, with reasonable certainty, that old fashioned challenging MMO content is not something that provides game success. Wildstar stands as just one example.

 

i have played MMOs since late 2000.

 

I would nevr go back to that. And, while nostalgia runs deep with some people, quite a few of them, when put to similar ordeal, realize it was just nostalgia for "good ol' times"

 

There is a place for such MMO, but its in very niche category in indie market, MMO that can be sustained by couple hunderd or thousand subscribers. Thats the reality.

[Mikahrone]

Frankly, I couldn't care less. I'm sick to death of 'end game' for pretty much every MMO, or every MMO based off the WoW template, focussing on these things to the exclusion of all else. How about breaking the mould (except that the odd game like the late, great City of Heroes did that years ago, and everyone else is still playing catch-up) and giving us more LEVELLING content? Story content? Stuff that's NOT all end-game related and requires you to grind 'yet another 5 more levels'. because that stuff is OLD.

 

Even WoW players are sick of that endgame, WoD had over 10m subs and dropped to 5ish because there was nothing to do but tired old WoW endgame.

 

Level sync can go far in making content on already existing locations (so no much need for a lot of stuff that goes into development).

 

Theres a lot of stuff that can be done, its just a question of cost/engine.

 

But at least they are on righ track now.

[InfectReality]

Hey there!

 

I love mmo's for the story. All the hours and hours of modeling and writing and animating that goes into putting it all together. Incredible and surely an immense accomplishment. I do not however enjoy grinding endlessly to reach that content.

 

 

The pace and balance that seems to have been struck with the recent changes were enough to give this game a shot 1 week ago. I love the story alot (especially being a KoTOR fan and this has that whole vibe about it). I went ahead and bought that Amazon 90 day deal with the expansions and such.

 

tl;dr the new direction the game has taken has caused a new subscription player.

[RogerApple]

Even WoW players are sick of that endgame, WoD had over 10m subs and dropped to 5ish because there was nothing to do but tired old WoW endgame.

 

Level sync can go far in making content on already existing locations (so no much need for a lot of stuff that goes into development).

 

Theres a lot of stuff that can be done, its just a question of cost/engine.

 

But at least they are on righ track now.

 

 

Edited. That makes five people who agree in a row counting the poster above me while I was making this post. The majority agrees. Can you hear me now.

 

 

This is what I mean...four people answered yes back to back. The poster Mika decided to post once then again "double post" instead of simply editing his post. I'm not great at math the majority has said "Yes" and "Yes" I'm just curious is there ever a tipping point where the majority is confirmed on Yes. If so does this thread need to still go on. I get it some people are literally obsessed with the question and not the answer. They rather keep thread alive in some ray of sunlight hope that they changes will be reversed but the rest of the community the question is repeated and honestly a little annoying. It's like talking to a brick wall that's not interested in your response even though they ask you a question.

 

I support people voice their point of view. I don't think anyone can say they haven't done that daily everyday for the past week. In several threads. I just humbly either keep it limited to a thread and you can bump it all day long or simply to let it go and move on. I think the Jedi said suffering comes from wanting etc. It's obviously not going to be changed and majority is fine with it. Let's not beat the dead horse all day. It's still dead.

Edited November 2, 2015 by RogerApple

[hadoken]

i have played MMOs since late 2000.

 

I would nevr go back to that. And, while nostalgia runs deep with some people, quite a few of them, when put to similar ordeal, realize it was just nostalgia for "good ol' times"

 

There is a place for such MMO, but its in very niche category in indie market, MMO that can be sustained by couple hunderd or thousand subscribers. Thats the reality.

 

This is so true. A lot of people forget that they were so memorable not for their game designs (which were actually atrocious by modern standards) but because of their newness as a genre. You can see this when people try to go back to that old formula and fail miserably in today's market.

[RogerApple]

This is so true. A lot of people forget that they were so memorable not for their game designs (which were actually atrocious by modern standards) but because of their newness as a genre. You can see this when people try to go back to that old formula and fail miserably in today's market.

 

Exactly. I played several MMO's. Grinding isn't fun. It wasn't fun when this game was first released. Making companions weaker that's exactly what you are going to get. You'll still beat the mobs of three grouped up. You are just going to die much more. That is not fun. People seemed to forget dying several times walking across a map was tedious. The reason so many quit was because we simply wanted to do the class quest. Once you completed four of the stories empire/alliance. It get's a little boring the side quests. You just want to do them as quick as possible.

 

Now we can level through WZ's or Flash Point. Some people can skip right to 60 and dodge the grind. The game is more fun when you can play the way you want. Walking around for hours trying to level a single level. Pushing the same four buttons killing a mob for the hundred thousand time isn't fun. That's exactly what some people want. I would not play a game like this. Since this expansion has started. I had so much fun. I been playing four alt's almost all at once. I literally sometimes play all day. I enjoy the story. I enjoy the class quests. Don't take all that away in favor trying to make things hardcore. It won't work as a business model. It hasn't in the past.

Edited November 2, 2015 by RogerApple

[DarthDymond]

Edited. That makes five people who agree in a row counting the poster above me while I was making this post. The majority agrees. Can you hear me now.

 

 

This is what I mean...four people answered yes back to back. The poster Mika decided to post once then again "double post" instead of simply editing his post. I'm not great at math the majority has said "Yes" and "Yes" I'm just curious is there ever a tipping point where the majority is confirmed on Yes. If so does this thread need to still go on. I get it some people are literally obsessed with the question and not the answer. They rather keep thread alive in some ray of sunlight hope that they changes will be reversed but the rest of the community the question is repeated and honestly a little annoying. It's like talking to a brick wall that's not interested in your response even though they ask you a question.

 

I support people voice their point of view. I don't think anyone can say they haven't done that daily everyday for the past week. In several threads. I just humbly either keep it limited to a thread and you can bump it all day long or simply to let it go and move on. I think the Jedi said suffering comes from wanting etc. It's obviously not going to be changed and majority is fine with it. Let's not beat the dead horse all day. It's still dead.

It's a discussion thread, not an official poll with a set closing point. People can keep discussing whether they like or dislike the changes as long as they want, and in this thread or some other they will probably continue doing so for months. If you don't find that discussion interesting anymore, you're not required to continue reading the thread or anything.

 

There aren't an egregious number of redundant threads going on right now that I've seen - on the front page of General Discussion this is the only one for discussing the sweeping changes as a whole. All the other threads are about specific aspects of KotFE, such as the Alliance system, individual companions, crafting, the plans for monthly releases, etc. Of course they're almost all relating back to KotFE in some way - it's kind of the biggest thing happening in the game right now.

 

And no, a forum thread is never going to be proof of the 'majority' of players feeling one way or the other, since the vast majority of players don't post on the forums at all (and those that do are not necessarily a representative sample of the game's population as a whole). It very well may be the case that the majority of players like these changes - but neither this or any other thread is going to prove that.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Djiini]

It's a discussion thread, not an official poll with a set closing point.

 

The thread posed a question and the majority answered it, friend.

[DarthDymond]

The thread posed a question and the majority answered it, friend.

And individuals are still continuing to chime in with their personal opinions in answer to that question. Or are engaging in spin-off discussions / tangents relating to the question or answers that have been given.

 

You know, they way you do in a discussion thread on an internet forum.

Edited November 2, 2015 by DarthDymond

[imissleeches]

Yes please! That's the reason I started playing SWTOR and fell in love with it.

 

The only thing that disappoints me is that we're not getting nearly enough story and cutscenes. I'm still sad that between original launch and KotFE we had like 3 years of no post-class story interaction with our companions. Grindy side activities like warzones, ops and conquest get old rather quickly between new story updates so hopefully they'll stick with the new chapter a month schedule they promised.

 

Assuming they fix all the 4.0 bugs first because this is embarrassing.

Edited November 2, 2015 by imissleeches

[RogerApple]

The thread posed a question and the majority answered it, friend.

 

This is exactly what I'm thinking too. A majority has said at least five people in a row last page/B]. As I'm writing this another poster has said yes. I'm not great at math. I think that is more then half the people who are fine with it. It's actually overwhelming. Like I mentioned before. The people who bump the old threads/creating existing ones with slight re-wording of re-hashed further proves my point Pro Nerf crowd they are not interested in the answers. For past week. Several times a day they voiced very strongly what they believe. No one is stopping them from speaking.

 

Yet as more and more say yes and yes. The Pro Nerf crowd still wants the thread to stay alive. They want keep it up till majority agrees with them or more people say no. They aren't interested in hearing the answer. That's where the frustration comes in. When you ask a question and get an answer...still not happy. It begs the question. Why even ask in the first place.

 

And individuals are still continuing to chime in with their personal opinions in answer to that question. Or are engaging in spin-off discussions / tangents relating to the question or answers that have been given.

 

You know, they way you do in a discussion thread on an internet forum.

 

If engaging spin offs. You mean asking literally the same question in a slightly different way. No its not engaging but it is a spin off. We don't need five threads about the same topic. The answer will be the same no matter what way you ask it. For other people. They want take away your experience. The Pro Nerf crowd. They want nerf your companions. They want to make it harder for people to level. They want rob people of joy of having fun as the game is now. I think the people verwhelming given its answer. The changes are here to stay.

Edited November 2, 2015 by RogerApple

[EnkiduNineEight]

Can you present your data demonstrating that the majority likes it?

Can you present your data that demonstrates that in all instances the majorities opinion is the 'right' opinion?

Etc.

 

Its a discussion board, people are going to post their opinions. Just because they post an opinion you do not agree with does not mean they are wrong. Just because they post an opinion that doesn't mesh with your perception of the majority, does not mean they are wrong and need to stop posting.

 

It hasn't even been a full week since the last patch. People are going to discuss the changes as they are _relevant_ to the time AND per past indications are not completely set in stone. Since they understand this, they come and voice their opinions.

 

Just as 'annoying' is the constant droning whine-fest from people who are afraid their easy mode might possibly be scaled back and so attempt to enact some 'tyranny of the majority' as if that is a valid view to hold and continuously post the same messages themselves wherever possible to try to silence any oppositional views.

 

I don't recall being polled by Bioware, though the avenue exists through the launcher. Feedback and surveys were used extensively in Beta. I do not recall BioWare releasing any data demonstrating that the majority of players are 'happy' with all the changes and want them to remain exactly as they are. I do not recall that the entirety of the playerbase is present on the 'official' forums.

 

If you are going to exist in a community/society, you are likely going to need to learn _why_ tyranny of the majority is bad. You may want to study why we have, in the US, a freedom of speech, why we have a representational democracy rather than a direct democracy (logistics was only part of it) . Many of those conventions are not exactly the same when dealing with a private enterprise but the wise enterprise recognizes many of these things.

 

Please note: EVERY time you bump a thread to tell people 'the majority has spoken, stop posting' you are presenting an opportunity for other people to disagree with you. You perpetuate what you proclaim to hate.

 

My best advice for you then would be to stop visiting the forums and bumping threads and perpetuating the discussion by your intractability and passive aggressive /truculence.

Edited November 2, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[hadoken]

People looking for validation that their opinion aligns with the 'majority' will not find such in a forum. The only way to know is by watching the sub numbers after the first month or two (assuming they're even communicated).

[Mikahrone]

Can you present your data demonstrating that the majority likes it?

Can you present your data that demonstrates that in all instances the majorities opinion is the 'right' opinion?

Etc.

 

Its a discussion board, people are going to post their opinions. Just because they post an opinion you do not agree with does not mean they are wrong. Just because they post an opinion that doesn't mesh with your perception of the majority, does not mean they are wrong and need to stop posting.

 

It hasn't even been a full week since the last patch. People are going to discuss the changes as they are _relevant_ to the time AND per past indications are not completely set in stone. Since they understand this, they come and voice their opinions.

 

Just as 'annoying' is the constant droning whine-fest from people who are afraid their easy mode might possibly be scaled back and so attempt to enact some 'tyranny of the majority' as if that is a valid view to hold and continuously post the same messages themselves wherever possible to try to silence any oppositional views.

 

I don't recall being polled by Bioware, though the avenue exists through the launcher. Feedback and surveys were used extensively in Beta. I do not recall BioWare releasing any data demonstrating that the majority of players are 'happy' with all the changes and want them to remain exactly as they are. I do not recall that the entirety of the playerbase is present on the 'official' forums.

 

If you are going to exist in a community/society, you are likely going to need to learn _why_ tyranny of the majority is bad. You may want to study why we have, in the US, a freedom of speech, why we have a representational democracy rather than a direct democracy (logistics was only part of it) . Many of those conventions are not exactly the same when dealing with a private enterprise but the wise enterprise recognizes many of these things.

 

Please note: EVERY time you bump a thread to tell people 'the majority has spoken, stop posting' you are presenting an opportunity for other people to disagree with you. You perpetuate what you proclaim to hate.

 

My best advice for you then would be to stop visiting the forums and bumping threads and perpetuating the discussion by your intractability and passive aggressive /truculence.

 

Ye, tyranny of vocal minority is MUCH better.

[Djiini]

People looking for validation that their opinion aligns with the 'majority' will not find such in a forum. The only way to know is by watching the sub numbers after the first month or two (assuming they're even communicated).

 

That's cool and all but the forum only has a couple whiners and it's the same few people, everyone else is praising, not to mention the reddit and in-game having overwhelming positive responses.

[hadoken]

That's cool and all but the forum only has a couple whiners and it's the same few people, everyone else is praising, not to mention the reddit and in-game having overwhelming positive responses.

 

Oh I agree it seems more people are happy than not, just you're always going to find arguments here

[RogerApple]

Can you present your data demonstrating that the majority likes it?

Can you present your data that demonstrates that in all instances the majorities opinion is the 'right' opinion?

Etc.

 

Its a discussion board, people are gong to post their opinions. Just because they post an opinion you do not agree with does not mean they are wrong. Just because they post an opinion that doesn't mesh with your perception of the majority, does not mean they are wrong and need to stop posting.

 

It hasn't even been a full week since the last patch. People are going to discuss the changes as they are _relevant_ to the time AND per past indications are not completely set in stone. Since they understand this, they come and voice their opinions.

 

Just as 'annoying' is the constant droning whine-fest from people who are afraid their easy mode might possibly be scaled back and so attempt to enact some 'tyranny of the majority' as if that is a valid view to hold and continuously post the same messages themselves wherever possible to try to silence any oppositional views.

 

I don't recall being polled by Bioware, though the avenue exists through the launcher. Feedback and surveys were used extensively in Beta. I do not recall BioWare releasing any data demonstrating that the majority of players are 'happy' with all the changes and want them to remain exactly as they are. I do not recall that the entirety of the playerbase is present on the 'official' forums.

 

If you are going to exist in a community/society, you are likely going to need to learn _why_ tyranny of the majority is bad. You may want to study why we have, in the US, a freedom of speech, why we have a representational democracy rather than a direct democracy (logistics was only part of it) . Many of those conventions are not exactly the same when dealing with a private enterprise but the wise enterprise recognizes many of these things.

 

Please note: EVERY time you bump a thread to tell people 'the majority has spoken, ****' you are presenting an opportunity for other people to disagree with you. You perpetuate what you proclaim to hate.

 

My best advice for you then would be to stop visiting the forums and bumping threads and perpetuating the discussion by your intractability and passive aggressive /truculence.

 

I known from you earlier post your novel like lengthy book replies that it doesn't matter what the majority says. Even though you asked the question. You don't care. I don't think honestly there is anything anyone can say as you mentioned in your earlier post. You believe if you kick and scream and complain enough there is some small hope they will change it.

 

That is your words not mine. By that we can't say or do anything that will make you be happy with the answer. You are not seeking the answer. Seeking to keep this thread alive by any means even if it means distorting the truth spinning off what other people have said. You have made it crystal clear in your earlier post holding out that Bioware will reverse its chance. That means biased to the results, to the answer to even the truth. When someone wants the changes revered no matter what people say or do. It's pointless for them to engage in any discussion they are biased to the result. That is exactly what you are.

 

For the other people reading this thread. Even though a majority of you have said "Yes this is what we want" these Pro Nerf crowd want to rob you of your fun. They want to make leveling a slow boring grind like it was before the expansion. Even though more people are having fun and they have an option to dismiss their companion that they claim is too strong. That's simply not good enough for them. Do people really want go back to the boring grind where it took five different quests just to level to the halfway point.

 

Do people really want go back to spending hours dying to mobs in groups of three or take even longer to get their class quest. Any changes they propose even under the guise of optional is going to be mandatory. Just like they have the alternative and optional to not use their companion. They refuse to do it. In fact they not olly refuse they want make it mandatory and nerf your experience/fun as well. Till the only way to get past the slow tedious grind is buy a level 60 off the market punishing those who don't have the money or rather do the class quest. That's for me for now. The majority has spoken if the Pro Nerf crowd accepts it is entirely a different subject.

[Djiini]

Oh I agree it seems more people are happy than not, just you're always going to find arguments here

 

I will agree with that statement.