Bioware, remove the PvP from the quest to get M1-4X.

[Ratajack]

Has anybody asked if other ally quests are locked behind the Pierce/4x pvp quest, ones that are pure PVE? If so, all the pvpers going on about totally optional no longer have that argument to resort to.

 

No. Even if that were the case, it would still be OPTIONAL.

 

You could still choose not to obtain Pierce or M1-4X. It would just mean that you also CHOOSE not to obtain any other companions tied to those two.

 

If you CHOOSE to obtain those other companions, then you would still need to do what is necessary to obtain them, including the PVP to obtain Pierce/M1-4X.

[Master-Nala]

And you know what's fantastic? To you I don't make sense but to me you don't either. And you haven't answered my question: How having an opt-out hurt the quest?

 

What is the harm you ask? It removes the achievement for everyone. Having 4X as a non-Trooper is akin to having the Manhunter title (Kill 50,000 players). It it a tiny indication that you "paid your dues." Now you might have a very legitimate argument that such a justification isn't fair. But MMORPGs in general and this game is no exception base hundreds of rewards on the same model. Getting the Wings of the Architect means you did the operation (even if you were carried) that drops them for example.

 

When you say you want an alternative, what you're saying is that PvP players aren't entitled to have rewards exclusive to that playstyle. If that's the case, then other highly desirable rewards only obtainable via Flashpoints or Operations should be fair game to change as well.

 

But, and I know it's somewhat unfair to raise the slippery slope argument, if you can choose your own methods to get any reward in the game, then those rewards cease to have any meaning. They are nothing more than "put the time in." At that point, it's not a game anymore. It's playing with digital action figures.

[horrorfaneightys]

So leave the quest untracked in your quest log if it bothers you too much, then you'll never see it.

 

I mean honestly, a yellow alert at the top of the page...

 

The issue I'm worried about is that you get the option to recruit Lokin from the same alliance member that you get Qyzen from. In my playthrough, I didn't get the quest to recruit Lokin until after I finished recruiting Qyzen. I don't care particularly about recruiting 4X, although he is one of my fave characters. I just want be certain that I will get more opportunities from Theron Shan without completing the PVP quest.

[AlienEyeTX]

Been trying to point this out as a bad idea to folks for a bit now but I was told to "quit whining" (meanwhile, my point wasn't about me).

 

See, here's the deal:

 

When it comes to PvE content- there are a lot of folks of all sorts of different persuasions that will try- and keep trying for that new shiny carrot no matter what.

 

Content crawlers will want to see the storyline.

 

Completionists just have to have that achievement.

 

RPers will just have to have that whatever on that particular character because it matches them.

 

These kinds of folks are tenacious. Do not mistake that for even an instant. They will try, and keep trying.... for years if need be.

 

Meanwhile, because it's a requirement that they can't stand- they're going to do it in any and every way that they can think of.

 

Within just the first day, I saw threats/promises/ideas of grieving the entire match, entire packs of "suicide squads" (individually and in groups), as well as playing badly on purpose.

 

Now. I'm sorry. But, even if I got lucky enough to avoid all of those groups mentioned above, I still would never want a ticked off player with less than zero motivation on my team like -ever.

 

And. Right now? As things stand? Possibly hundreds of those players are descending and are about to descend into the Arenas in massive numbers.

 

This. To me? Does not sound like a good recipe for a good time for anyone.

 

So. Yeah. They really need to put in an alternative idea. Make it difficult. That's fine but, make it non-PvP. Because, this is not a good combination, like, at all.

 

You're right. You have a bunch of people who don't want to be there and another bunch of people who don't want the first group of people there. No one is happy. The only good part is that it makes queues pop quicker. But, that's irrelevant when no one is enjoying themselves.

 

I like PvP. But, I don't like it with all of my characters. I hate melee PvP and that's what I'm stuck with now because I want a certain companion to join my story. And I can't go to any kiosk for him because he's not one of the companions for my class.

 

So, even though I PvP a lot, I will not put effort into it with this particular character. What happens happens and other people will be less happy because of it. On the bright side, opponents will be THRILLED about the results.

[AlienEyeTX]

What is the harm you ask? It removes the achievement for everyone. Having 4X as a non-Trooper is akin to having the Manhunter title (Kill 50,000 players). It it a tiny indication that you "paid your dues." Now you might have a very legitimate argument that such a justification isn't fair. But MMORPGs in general and this game is no exception base hundreds of rewards on the same model. Getting the Wings of the Architect means you did the operation (even if you were carried) that drops them for example.

 

When you say you want an alternative, what you're saying is that PvP players aren't entitled to have rewards exclusive to that playstyle. If that's the case, then other highly desirable rewards only obtainable via Flashpoints or Operations should be fair game to change as well.

 

But, and I know it's somewhat unfair to raise the slippery slope argument, if you can choose your own methods to get any reward in the game, then those rewards cease to have any meaning. They are nothing more than "put the time in." At that point, it's not a game anymore. It's playing with digital action figures.

 

But PvP players DO have rewards exclusive to "their play style." Every season of PvP brings rewards only available by doing PvP and earning those rewards.

 

I like PvP, but I think it's stupid of BW to make it a requirement (20 matches, no less!) for a PvE companion "reward."

 

It's not game-breaking or anything crazy like that. But it IS a mistake.

[Master-Nala]

But PvP players DO have rewards exclusive to "their play style." Every season of PvP brings rewards only available by doing PvP and earning those rewards.

 

I like PvP, but I think it's stupid of BW to make it a requirement (20 matches, no less!) for a PvE companion "reward."

 

It's not game-breaking or anything crazy like that. But it IS a mistake.

 

Right, but this reward too is a PvP reward now. Calling it a PvE companion is a misnomer unless you're talking about a Trooper for 4X or a Warrior for Pierce. For everyone else, it's fully cosmetic and fully optional. It bring no other benefits other than hearing his voice once in awhile and his appearance.

 

It is a mistake why exactly? Because you don't like the requirement? What makes this requirement illegitimate? Story? Nope, there is nothing more than the token story of recruiting him. A specific ability of 4X/Pierce? Nope neither has any such ability.

 

So what other than the fact that some people who don't like PvP want this companion makes this an illegitimate reward for PvP?

[cipos]

/signed. I hate PvP.

[heythereqt]

Not trying to step on any toes here, but I absolutely disagree with this. PvP should not be removed from this quest. People asked for challenging and time-consuming content...and having to play in 20 pvp matches for a companion is both challenging and time consuming.

 

The great thing about it is that it's completely optional. If you don't want to pvp, then don't pvp. Sure, you won't get the companion...but you have 20+ other companions at your disposal now. If you want the reward, you have to participate in the content to get the reward. I don't do very many operations. As a result I don't have nearly as good of gear as a lot of other people, and I miss out on some of the cool decoration and mount drops. Does this mean that they should completely change operations so that I can get all that stuff however I want? Not at all. It just means that if I want that stuff, I need to do operations. The situation is no different with having to do pvp for this companion quest. If you want the reward, you have to do the content.

Edited October 25, 2015 by heythereqt

[Adaarye]

It's not so much removing PvP that is needed than offering an alternative.

Don't try to bull**** me in saying your character can't participate in the war effort if he doesn't PvP.

Qyzen offers two options to get him: World Bosses (So, group content) and Jaganath preys on Hoth (Solo).

Why doesn't Forex/Pierce offer the same?

And don't try to tell me I don't need them, because if you do, you are more than likely a PvP player, thus you don't think like I do and I won't waste my time explain to you why a "PvE reward" (It's not, it's story content) should not be locked behind PvP requirement only.

 

I agree. PvP should never be forced and there should an alternative for PvE only players. Sure, PvP quests for the sake of PvP are cool but to lock companions behind PvP .. not nice at all.

[TheSeer]

I'm with everyone else there should be a PVE route to get them too. These kind of things are bad for both PVE and PVP. You going to get a ton of people who are there just to get there companion, there not there to win there just there to do what they need to get a new companion. I'm going to PVP, I'll try to win but I'm not very good so I feel bad for my team already. Unlike other who won't probably even try at all, I will try at least. Either way I'm doing it because I want that droid on my Jedi.

[Rogue_Kitsune]

Just commenting to show my support for this request as well. I typically dislike PvP in general, not just in this game, but I am at least willing to occasionally give it a try - I did my first four PvP matches ever in this game on Friday. Granted, I also lost my first four PvP matches Friday, but... oh well. I'm not even too bothered by losing there, since the requirement is simply to play 20 matches, not to win 20. HOWEVER! Unless the Alliance system ties in with the Legacy system in some way that I haven't noticed, you will be required to play those 20 or fewer matches on every character you play through KotFE and want to get these companions on (with the exception of Troopers and Warriors), and THAT is going to add up quickly. 20 matches, I'd be fine with, but I have at least two other characters I'd like to play and get those companions with at some point as well, which pushes that total up to 60 PvP matches required. And that's just three characters - I think it's safe to say most people playing this game have more than that.

 

As such, I would very much appreciate and recommend that they make some kind of change here, either by adding an alternative PvE option (perhaps clear a few select HM Flashpoints?), or add some way to unlock it through the Legacy system, such as making Valor (and Social Rank) Legacy-wide, rather than character-specific - you would still need to play a decent bit of PvP, but once you'd manage to hit Valor rank 40, which doesn't sound to be too terribly difficult, you'd never "need" to touch PvP again.

[Talimar]

Even Blizzard learnt from this mistake and promised not to do it again.

[Drudenfusz]

I think it is fine with some PvP, if one doesn't like that, then one doesn't deserve the compainion, simply as that.

[Leklor]

Right, but this reward too is a PvP reward now. Calling it a PvE companion is a misnomer unless you're talking about a Trooper for 4X or a Warrior for Pierce. For everyone else, it's fully cosmetic and fully optional. It bring no other benefits other than hearing his voice once in awhile and his appearance.

 

It is a mistake why exactly? Because you don't like the requirement? What makes this requirement illegitimate? Story? Nope, there is nothing more than the token story of recruiting him. A specific ability of 4X/Pierce? Nope neither has any such ability.

 

So what other than the fact that some people who don't like PvP want this companion makes this an illegitimate reward for PvP?

 

The problem most people have, I think, is that the PvP is completely shoe-horned. It's dropped on you in the middle of a story mechanic about Alliances. Why am I killing Imperials to recruit Forex when I'm going to put him in a base WITH Imperials in it? It makes little sense? In fact, why am I killing potential allies?

You see, I think you are partially right to defend the right for PvPers to have an exclusive companion. Just like Ops players could have one, crafters could and so on.

But it should not have been one of the 40 original companions.

And it should have been a quest given by a terminal.

Something separate from the Alliance system entirely, apart from earning a NEW companion (As in, a previously non-existent character or a non-companion one, JDiablos offered ideas like Malgus, Jace Malcom, animals, war droids, pretty much any dead storyline character).

I'd be fine with that. More than that, I'd actually support the idea because that might make me play PvP on my terms instead of barging in on me while I'm doing my Alliance stuff.

Thankfully, Dulfy did say that the companion is considered "acquired" as soon as he is met on Coruscant/Dromund Kaas and that it doesn't block out further recruitement.

Still, the implementation leaves much to be desired.

Tl;dr: PvP only companions are fine. But only new ones. Old "story" ones should not require PvP or not a large amount (Being at 15/20 Warzones, I can assure you it's far too much for someone who doesn't enjoy Warzones)

[horrorfaneightys]

The problem most people have, I think, is that the PvP is completely shoe-horned. It's dropped on you in the middle of a story mechanic about Alliances. Why am I killing Imperials to recruit Forex when I'm going to put him in a base WITH Imperials in it? It makes little sense? In fact, why am I killing potential allies?

You see, I think you are partially right to defend the right for PvPers to have an exclusive companion. Just like Ops players could have one, crafters could and so on.

But it should not have been one of the 40 original companions.

And it should have been a quest given by a terminal.

Something separate from the Alliance system entirely, apart from earning a NEW companion (As in, a previously non-existent character or a non-companion one, JDiablos offered ideas like Malgus, Jace Malcom, animals, war droids, pretty much any dead storyline character).

I'd be fine with that. More than that, I'd actually support the idea because that might make me play PvP on my terms instead of barging in on me while I'm doing my Alliance stuff.

Thankfully, Dulfy did say that the companion is considered "acquired" as soon as he is met on Coruscant/Dromund Kaas and that it doesn't block out further recruitement.

Still, the implementation leaves much to be desired.

Tl;dr: PvP only companions are fine. But only new ones. Old "story" ones should not require PvP or not a large amount (Being at 15/20 Warzones, I can assure you it's far too much for someone who doesn't enjoy Warzones)

 

I would be happy for them to have an exclusive new character. No different from them having the exclusive mounts for ranked for example. A great idea.

 

And thanks for mentioning what Dulfy said. That makes me feel better that I won't be locked out of further recruitment.

[Draqsko]

I would be happy for them to have an exclusive new character. No different from them having the exclusive mounts for ranked for example. A great idea.

 

And thanks for mentioning what Dulfy said. That makes me feel better that I won't be locked out of further recruitment.

 

There was never any indication of them locking future companions behind either of the PvP required companions though.

[damonskye]

And thanks for mentioning what Dulfy said. That makes me feel better that I won't be locked out of further recruitment.

 

I wish the same could be said of Lokin... apparently you have to finish up Qyzen to get his mission, and I don't want to have to do world boss kills on all my characters (since the alternative is waiting for spawns every 20 minutes.) Yikes.

[Ffin]

It's very simple:

Pve'rs don't want to pvp because they don't like it.

Pvp'ers don't want Pve'rs doing pvp because they have 1000 expertise, die in 2 secs, don't know how to play objectives and just get gestroyed over and over.

Doing warzones at level 65 now is just asking for a bullet in the head, EVERY match 4~5 people with 59k HP when fully pvp geared is about 67~72k.

I blame the Pve'rs?? NO.

I blame BIOWARE, again, messing up things we always told them not to do since BETA: Do NOT force PvP.

 

Then you say "it's a matter of choice, you don't have to do pvp if don't want to". Well, a companion is all about PvE, some people love that companion. Why the hell Bioware put a pvp aspect on it? Both are unhappy with this.

 

Quit whining, suck it up, grow a pair and do a few warzones. So what if you suck at it? Do a couple a day, you might even be done in 5 days. It may even be enjoyable.

 

I'm not a regular PvP'er, but I do PvP if there's an incentive.

[VanCali]

I too thought that was stupid. I don't PVP. I don't ever care to PVP. I play the game for story, and acquiring M1 is a part of the story I want to play. Throwing me into PVP at lv 65 with no equipment or experience will suck for all involved. No idea why Bioware went this route.

[Celise]

i havent touched pvp in years and im less inclined to consider pvp in any format with this expertise thing blocking the way. i mean the last time i was in pvp with pve gear i was doing some damnest things and doing them well in a competitive place, sometimes even turning a fight around single handedly. if i can no longer get into a fight and do well then thats not my problem, i got other things to do. the bottom line for me is that i no longer care about pvp to play it any more. its like operations groups, no rookie can join such a thing unless you can get experience from somewhere and learn what is expected off you in the same way you need to get pvp gear before you can be effective without the tokens before hand. in both cases you would get heckled to death by elitists and others who wont want to give the time of day let alone a few positive words of encouragement.

 

the game used to have fairly rubbish pvp gear you could get from a console at one point, at the very least you would have a basic chance to get into the fight even so. i wonder if such armour could be returned to the game in some updated format?

[Ffin]

i havent touched pvp in years and im less inclined to consider pvp in any format with this expertise thing blocking the way. i mean the last time i was in pvp with pve gear i was doing some damnest things and doing them well in a competitive place, sometimes even turning a fight around single handedly. if i can no longer get into a fight and do well then thats not my problem, i got other things to do. the bottom line for me is that i no longer care about pvp to play it any more. its like operations groups, no rookie can join such a thing unless you can get experience from somewhere and learn what is expected off you in the same way you need to get pvp gear before you can be effective without the tokens before hand. in both cases you would get heckled to death by elitists and others who wont want to give the time of day let alone a few positive words of encouragement.

 

the game used to have fairly rubbish pvp gear you could get from a console at one point, at the very least you would have a basic chance to get into the fight even so. i wonder if such armour could be returned to the game in some updated format?

 

Yeah? And? Are you so weak that a few written comments make you cry? If that's the case, give up the game, hell, get off the internet!

[Leklor]

Yeah? And? Are you so weak that a few written comments make you cry? If that's the case, give up the game, hell, get off the internet!

 

There is more to sucking at WZs that insulting comments... There is... You know... Being terrible and not getting better despite putting effort into it.

Being rude isn't helping the situation. Some others may have been a little unpleasant over the course of this thread (I'm guilty as charged) but you are not bringing anything worthwhile to the discussion.

[horrorfaneightys]

I wish the same could be said of Lokin... apparently you have to finish up Qyzen to get his mission, and I don't want to have to do world boss kills on all my characters (since the alternative is waiting for spawns every 20 minutes.) Yikes.

 

I managed to get 16 jagganath targets in around a couple of sessions on Hoth. Dulfy has good info on where to look. Got 6 in one session alone just from Highmount Slopes in Highmount Ridge, near where the legandary wampa is in the mountains at the back of imp outpost Lenth. My scoundrel in non-augmented adaptive gear with 190 mods and Lana at around 15 influence face-rolled them. It did take a while, but not nearly as long as I expected, so it is very doable.

Edited October 25, 2015 by horrorfaneightys

[horrorfaneightys]

There was never any indication of them locking future companions behind either of the PvP required companions though.

 

My worry was that as you needed to do Qyzen before you go after Lokin, that eventually other alerts from Theron would be blocked because I didn't complete this part.

[jamiemcd]

so fare I have done 9 pvp warzones and only have 11 to go not really a fan of pvp myself but I'm doing it to get him any way ^^;