Lack of Community and Depth - Why I believe this game will fail

[KnikesBlack]

I'm not here to complain about the UI, the combat delays, the random FPS, or even the nonexistent customer service and feedback. To me, all of these things are tolerable since they are actually fixable within a foreseeable future. I am willing to tolerate all minor things in any MMO as long as I see longevity and potential in a game, but this game does not have this. The problems that I have with this game cannot be fixed with a patch or update. Something is wrong with the core of this game to me.

 

The main points I'm going to be focusing on in my post are:

 

- Community

- Endgame Content/Longevity

- Linear Gameplay

 

To me, these points are what separate an MMO from a single player game. Throughout my post I am going to be using SWG as a comparison. I know many people don't like that and keep saying its like comparing apples to oranges since one is a sandbox and the other is a theme park type game. The fact of the matter is they are both MMOs, and there are specific qualities to any MMO that make them successful. (And frankly you can compare apples to oranges since they are both foods. I like apples more. See?)

 

Community

Maybe I speak for myself when I say this, but any MMO that I have played would have been insanely boring were it not for the community. An active community is one of the core factors that separates an MMO from a single player game. This game is severely lacking in this department and the problem cannot be fixed with a couple of patches.

 

Example

In SWG, if I want a new custom made weapon I needed to contact another player who has mastered the Weaponsmith profession. Need new armor? Get an armorsmith. Need some buffs to go grinding? Find the nearest Master Doctor. Even crafters had the option to hire Master scouters to go and find rare resources they used for crafting. You could almost say that the community was forced upon you, which is what made the game so fun.

 

In SWTOR, I have NONE, absolutely no reason to ask another player for anything other than to help on a mission. The skillsets in this game to me don't seem like they were really designed in any way for community reliance and interaction. Seeing as how I can have so many alts, it seems that the skillsets were designed in a way to emphasize single player gameplay - which is fine for those who like single player games, but I wanted to play an MMO. In SWG, you had one character per server (unless you unlocked jedi, but besides that). I can't be a Doctor, and a weaponsmith, and a chef, and have a fighting profession. Reliance on other players was forced upon you.

 

 

Endgame Content

I have to admit, I'm not yet at level 50 (this is due to the fact that leveling is ridiculously repetitive and boring IMO). Before I came to these forums I asked myself, "What am I even going to do when I hit level 50?" Lo and behold, I come here to find numerous posts with people complaining about what they should do now that they are at level 50. The responses I have seen to these post have been absolutely astounding. People telling them that they didn't take their sweet motherloving time, and that they should roll out a new character. **** that. I haven't even gotten to 50 and these quests are already a bore to me. Am I the only one concerned that other players that are at level 50 have nothing else to do? Do others not realize that we will one day be in their place? What happens after I get that second character to 50? Am I doomed to do this 6 more times? And then what after that??

 

Example

In SWG, Mastering your profession was just the BEGINNING of the game. There were so many places to explore, so many items, caves, and even PVP was worth playing. And if you no longer liked your profession, at any time you could DROP your skillset and start grinding one of the other 31 professions. There was no point in the game where I had the opportunity to stop and think "Well what do I do after I finish X?". The idea never even BEGAN to cross my mind.

 

SWTOR hasn't even been out for a *********** WEEK and I've already begun to ask myself what I'll be doing afterwards. The answers that I have seen so far don't seem to provide any potential for longevity AT ALL. PVP? You want me to JUST pvp for the next couple of months before they roll out the next sequence of "fetch this, kill that" quests? MMOs are supposed to be made to sustain players for YEARS. If people got to level 50 with ease in a couple of days, what makes you think the miniscule amount of content Bioware tried to squeeze out will entertain them for very long?

 

 

Linear Gameplay

I get no sense of freedom or adventure while playing this game. The planets are constricting, the spawns start off in the same place and barely move (the ones I've seen at least, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't want my hand to be held while playing an MMO. I feel like my ability to explore is limited. Kind of hard to elaborate on this since its pretty straightforward. The point is, linear gameplay = not fun.

 

Example

I hate to use SWG as an example again, but I think that game really hit the nail on the head when it comes to non linear gameplay and exploration. There were 8+ different planets, almost all of which I had different reasons to explore and come back to. Each of these planets were huge, had several Points of Interest, and would take 30mins-an hour to go from one end to another on foot. You could go anywhere and explore anything. SWTOR is a giant hallway that I never have any reason to go back for.

 

 

In Conclusion

I've used SWG as a comparison because to me it was a game that had all of the basic elements any MMO should possess. I'm sure you could make the same argument with nearly any other successful MMO. It seems to me that Bioware purposefully aimed at making this more of a single player game with minor multiplayer elements. Some people like that, which is totally fine. This game will last them as long as any single player game will last. From what I've observed, this game does not have the potential to cater to the type of players who enjoy MMOs and it will not in the near future. The way the game is structured, any future patches will probably be designed to enhance the single player experience. This is why I believe this game will fail.

[Vaegaknight]

SWG is shut down. It failed.

 

And was a different kind of game.

[MrTijger]

SWG is shut down. It failed.

 

And was a different kind of game.

 

He thinks it was renamed SWTOR.

[DarthDolemite]

I'm not here to complain about the UI, the combat delays, the random FPS, or even the nonexistent customer service and feedback. To me, all of these things are tolerable since they are actually fixable within a foreseeable future. I am willing to tolerate all minor things in any MMO as long as I see longevity and potential in a game, but this game does not have this. The problems that I have with this game cannot be fixed with a patch or update. Something is wrong with the core of this game to me.

 

The main points I'm going to be focusing on in my post are:

 

- Community

- Endgame Content/Longevity

- Linear Gameplay

 

To me, these points are what separate an MMO from a single player game. Throughout my post I am going to be using SWG as a comparison. I know many people don't like that and keep saying its like comparing apples to oranges since one is a sandbox and the other is a theme park type game. The fact of the matter is they are both MMOs, and there are specific qualities to any MMO that make them successful. (And frankly you can compare apples to oranges since they are both foods. I like apples more. See?)

 

Community

Maybe I speak for myself when I say this, but any MMO that I have played would have been insanely boring were it not for the community. An active community is one of the core factors that separates an MMO from a single player game. This game is severely lacking in this department and the problem cannot be fixed with a couple of patches.

 

Example

In SWG, if I want a new custom made weapon I needed to contact another player who has mastered the Weaponsmith profession. Need new armor? Get an armorsmith. Need some buffs to go grinding? Find the nearest Master Doctor. Even crafters had the option to hire Master scouters to go and find rare resources they used for crafting. You could almost say that the community was forced upon you, which is what made the game so fun.

 

In SWTOR, I have NONE, absolutely no reason to ask another player for anything other than to help on a mission. The skillsets in this game to me don't seem like they were really designed in any way for community reliance and interaction. Seeing as how I can have so many alts, it seems that the skillsets were designed in a way to emphasize single player gameplay - which is fine for those who like single player games, but I wanted to play an MMO. In SWG, you had one character per server (unless you unlocked jedi, but besides that). I can't be a Doctor, and a weaponsmith, and a chef, and have a fighting profession. Reliance on other players was forced upon you.

 

 

Endgame Content

I have to admit, I'm not yet at level 50 (this is due to the fact that leveling is ridiculously repetitive and boring IMO). Before I came to these forums I asked myself, "What am I even going to do when I hit level 50?" Lo and behold, I come here to find numerous posts with people complaining about what they should do now that they are at level 50. The responses I have seen to these post have been absolutely astounding. People telling them that they didn't take their sweet motherloving time, and that they should roll out a new character. **** that. I haven't even gotten to 50 and these quests are already a bore to me. Am I the only one concerned that other players that are at level 50 have nothing else to do? Do others not realize that we will one day be in their place? What happens after I get that second character to 50? Am I doomed to do this 6 more times? And then what after that??

 

Example

In SWG, Mastering your profession was just the BEGINNING of the game. There were so many places to explore, so many items, caves, and even PVP was worth playing. And if you no longer liked your profession, at any time you could DROP your skillset and start grinding one of the other 31 professions. There was no point in the game where I had the opportunity to stop and think "Well what do I do after I finish X?". The idea never even BEGAN to cross my mind.

 

SWTOR hasn't even been out for a *********** WEEK and I've already begun to ask myself what I'll be doing afterwards. The answers that I have seen so far don't seem to provide any potential for longevity AT ALL. PVP? You want me to JUST pvp for the next couple of months before they roll out the next sequence of "fetch this, kill that" quests? MMOs are supposed to be made to sustain players for YEARS. If people got to level 50 with ease in a couple of days, what makes you think the miniscule amount of content Bioware tried to squeeze out will entertain them for very long?

 

 

Linear Gameplay

I get no sense of freedom or adventure while playing this game. The planets are constricting, the spawns start off in the same place and barely move (the ones I've seen at least, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't want my hand to be held while playing an MMO. I feel like my ability to explore is limited. Kind of hard to elaborate on this since its pretty straightforward. The point is, linear gameplay = not fun.

 

Example

I hate to use SWG as an example again, but I think that game really hit the nail on the head when it comes to non linear gameplay and exploration. There were 8+ different planets, almost all of which I had different reasons to explore and come back to. Each of these planets were huge, had several Points of Interest, and would take 30mins-an hour to go from one end to another on foot. You could go anywhere and explore anything. SWTOR is a giant hallway that I never have any reason to go back for.

 

 

In Conclusion

I've used SWG as a comparison because to me it was a game that had all of the basic elements any MMO should possess. I'm sure you could make the same argument with nearly any other successful MMO. It seems to me that Bioware purposefully aimed at making this more of a single player game with minor multiplayer elements. Some people like that, which is totally fine. This game will last them as long as any single player game will last. From what I've observed, this game does not have the potential to cater to the type of players who enjoy MMOs and it will not in the near future. The way the game is structured, any future patches will probably be designed to enhance the single player experience. This is why I believe this game will fail.

 

 

I agree nice post.

Bioware can do two things.

 

1.Continue on the path they are on .....Keep the game like a single player mmo , players and fanboys will finish it and cry cause nobody is playing it and its dying.

 

2.Make it more like a mmorpg , increase the server size , remove shards and get a community going, that will keep people playing and paying.

 

But if they expect mmorpg fans to pay for what is a single player mmo advertised as a mmorpg then they are sadly mistaken.

 

The fanboys will pay but most wont. And the fanboys are only 10% of the population.

[LordSatoh]

SWG is shut down. It failed.

 

And was a different kind of game.

 

Is that all you managed to come up with? Serious question

[Jett-Rinn]

The vocal minority keeps talking about the game failing but it looks like they are pushing close to two million subs already, Gamestops brick and mortar stores won't be getting stock in until late January and they may have to suspend digital sales because the game is growing too fast.

 

But yeah failzor is written all over it.

 

[Xanerithe]

I'm not here to complain about the UI, the combat delays, the random FPS, or even the nonexistent customer service and feedback. To me, all of these things are tolerable since they are actually fixable within a foreseeable future. I am willing to tolerate all minor things in any MMO as long as I see longevity and potential in a game, but this game does not have this. The problems that I have with this game cannot be fixed with a patch or update. Something is wrong with the core of this game to me.

 

The main points I'm going to be focusing on in my post are:

 

- Community

- Endgame Content/Longevity

- Linear Gameplay

 

To me, these points are what separate an MMO from a single player game. Throughout my post I am going to be using SWG as a comparison. I know many people don't like that and keep saying its like comparing apples to oranges since one is a sandbox and the other is a theme park type game. The fact of the matter is they are both MMOs, and there are specific qualities to any MMO that make them successful. (And frankly you can compare apples to oranges since they are both foods. I like apples more. See?)

 

Community

Maybe I speak for myself when I say this, but any MMO that I have played would have been insanely boring were it not for the community. An active community is one of the core factors that separates an MMO from a single player game. This game is severely lacking in this department and the problem cannot be fixed with a couple of patches.

 

Example

In SWG, if I want a new custom made weapon I needed to contact another player who has mastered the Weaponsmith profession. Need new armor? Get an armorsmith. Need some buffs to go grinding? Find the nearest Master Doctor. Even crafters had the option to hire Master scouters to go and find rare resources they used for crafting. You could almost say that the community was forced upon you, which is what made the game so fun.

 

In SWTOR, I have NONE, absolutely no reason to ask another player for anything other than to help on a mission. The skillsets in this game to me don't seem like they were really designed in any way for community reliance and interaction. Seeing as how I can have so many alts, it seems that the skillsets were designed in a way to emphasize single player gameplay - which is fine for those who like single player games, but I wanted to play an MMO. In SWG, you had one character per server (unless you unlocked jedi, but besides that). I can't be a Doctor, and a weaponsmith, and a chef, and have a fighting profession. Reliance on other players was forced upon you.

 

 

Endgame Content

I have to admit, I'm not yet at level 50 (this is due to the fact that leveling is ridiculously repetitive and boring IMO). Before I came to these forums I asked myself, "What am I even going to do when I hit level 50?" Lo and behold, I come here to find numerous posts with people complaining about what they should do now that they are at level 50. The responses I have seen to these post have been absolutely astounding. People telling them that they didn't take their sweet motherloving time, and that they should roll out a new character. **** that. I haven't even gotten to 50 and these quests are already a bore to me. Am I the only one concerned that other players that are at level 50 have nothing else to do? Do others not realize that we will one day be in their place? What happens after I get that second character to 50? Am I doomed to do this 6 more times? And then what after that??

 

Example

In SWG, Mastering your profession was just the BEGINNING of the game. There were so many places to explore, so many items, caves, and even PVP was worth playing. And if you no longer liked your profession, at any time you could DROP your skillset and start grinding one of the other 31 professions. There was no point in the game where I had the opportunity to stop and think "Well what do I do after I finish X?". The idea never even BEGAN to cross my mind.

 

SWTOR hasn't even been out for a *********** WEEK and I've already begun to ask myself what I'll be doing afterwards. The answers that I have seen so far don't seem to provide any potential for longevity AT ALL. PVP? You want me to JUST pvp for the next couple of months before they roll out the next sequence of "fetch this, kill that" quests? MMOs are supposed to be made to sustain players for YEARS. If people got to level 50 with ease in a couple of days, what makes you think the miniscule amount of content Bioware tried to squeeze out will entertain them for very long?

 

 

Linear Gameplay

I get no sense of freedom or adventure while playing this game. The planets are constricting, the spawns start off in the same place and barely move (the ones I've seen at least, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't want my hand to be held while playing an MMO. I feel like my ability to explore is limited. Kind of hard to elaborate on this since its pretty straightforward. The point is, linear gameplay = not fun.

 

Example

I hate to use SWG as an example again, but I think that game really hit the nail on the head when it comes to non linear gameplay and exploration. There were 8+ different planets, almost all of which I had different reasons to explore and come back to. Each of these planets were huge, had several Points of Interest, and would take 30mins-an hour to go from one end to another on foot. You could go anywhere and explore anything. SWTOR is a giant hallway that I never have any reason to go back for.

 

 

In Conclusion

I've used SWG as a comparison because to me it was a game that had all of the basic elements any MMO should possess. I'm sure you could make the same argument with nearly any other successful MMO. It seems to me that Bioware purposefully aimed at making this more of a single player game with minor multiplayer elements. Some people like that, which is totally fine. This game will last them as long as any single player game will last. From what I've observed, this game does not have the potential to cater to the type of players who enjoy MMOs and it will not in the near future. The way the game is structured, any future patches will probably be designed to enhance the single player experience. This is why I believe this game will fail.

 

[Jumajin]

SWG is shut down. It failed.

 

And was a different kind of game.

 

That about sums it up, and points to why I stopped reading the OP's post the moment he said he would compare SWTOR to SWG.

 

I was there in SWG when it was both a "sandbox" and even after the NGE Fiasco. The game died a rapid death long before the NGE and the plug being pulled a few weeks ago.

 

Looking back on it without the rose colored glasses, I understand why.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Jumajin

[Emom]

I’m starting to agree with OP. I’ve waited for this game for such a long a time and as a result really don’t want to, but the gameplay speaks for itself. I can’t think of any reason to stay in a linear universe after the single player element of the MMO is finished. I’ll play for the rest of the month, then I’ll need something new.

[Vaegaknight]

Is that all you managed to come up with? Serious question

 

Do I need to come up with more? The dude is giving out reasons why THIS game will fail and is using a failed, shut down game as a comparison to what a successful game should be.

 

And you're trying to question MY intelligence here? Really?

[Jett-Rinn]

Also need I remind the OP that SWG is currently considered one of the worst failures in MMO history that train wreck won coaster of the year three times in a row before the NGE and if it wasn't for George Lucas's son taking a special interest in it; it would have probably shut down years ago.

[Emom]

That about sums it up, and points to why I stopped reading the OP's post the moment he said he would compare SWTOR to SWG.

 

 

SWG only failed after SOE destroyed it. He's referring to the pre cu SWG... at least SOE started off properly.

[Meharial]

The vocal minority keeps talking about the game failing but it looks like they are pushing close to two million subs already, Gamestops brick and mortar stores won't be getting stock in until late January and they may have to suspend digital sales because the game is growing too fast.

 

But yeah failzor is written all over it.

 

 

AoC had an explosive start as well, STO did too now that I think about it. Replayability is a huge concern for this game, we'll what happens once the majority hit 50.

[Vaegaknight]

SWG only failed after SOE destroyed it. He's referring to the pre cu SWG... at least SOE started off properly.

 

SWG was still a massive failure. The game wasn't that great pre CU. Sorry.

[KnikesBlack]

The vocal minority keeps talking about the game failing but it looks like they are pushing close to two million subs already, Gamestops brick and mortar stores won't be getting stock in until late January and they may have to suspend digital sales because the game is growing too fast.

 

But yeah failzor is written all over it.

 

 

Honestly, I don't want it to fail.

 

This game was hyped for YEARS, so it doesn't surprise me that it's making so many initial sales. It's a great single player game much like the original KOTOR was. The entire point of my post was to assess its MULTIPLAYER aspects and how successful it will be as an MMO.

 

People will buy it, people will like it, people will play it. My question is, does it have what it takes to sustain players who want to play an MMO and not a single player game.

[Xanerithe]

SWG only failed after SOE destroyed it. He's referring to the pre cu SWG... at least SOE started off properly.

 

Even pre cu, the game failed..sorry but it wasn't even that big at the time.

[Vaegaknight]

Honestly, I don't want it to fail.

 

This game was hyped for YEARS, so it doesn't surprise me that it's making so many initial sales. It's a great single player game much like the original KOTOR was. The entire point of my post was to assess its MULTIPLAYER aspects and how successful it will be as an MMO.

 

People will buy it, people will like it, people will play it. My question is, does it have what it takes to sustain players who want to play an MMO and not a single player game.

 

The game wasn't really hyped. The developers delivered on everything they said they would. It's not their fault that people have ridiculous expectations and they can't please absolutely everyone.

[Golgafrinchiam]

I got to SWG and blanked out.

[Emom]

SWG was still a massive failure. The game wasn't that great pre CU. Sorry.

 

 

 

I highly disagree.

[Ragnab]

The second point, i cant talk about because Im not there yet. The third the game is a bit linear and I would like more exploration added later but I thinkn its fine for now.

I completey dissagree with the community point though, Im on the EU server Hidden Beks and its full, the forum is full. Some morons but mostly the community is fine.

[Vaegaknight]

I highly disagree.

 

Then you are part of the minority. I played it a little, and I have to agree with myself. The numerous guildies I had in WoW who did nothing but complain about it would have to agree with me as well.

[Syylara]

Even pre cu, the game failed..sorry but it wasn't even that big at the time.

 

It was in the top 5 for the first year or so.

 

Remember, before WoW 200,000 was considered a healthy size.

 

If not breaking into multi-million players is the definition of "failure" then there have only ever been like 2 or 3 "succesful" MMOs in the history of the genre.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Syylara

[Voblat]

I highly disagree.

 

Pre NGE.

 

Box sales , 1 million

 

Subs , less than 200k.

 

Thats over 80% of people that PAID for the game didnt play it.

 

THAT is why they had an nge in the first place, if pre cu was doing well, it wouldnt ever have happened.

 

Heres another statistic.

 

Barring its launch month, SWG, which until wow was the most expensive MMO made, had less subs than EQ, thats the original EQ , not EQ2 , for its entire life.

 

It was a failure in terms of subs , pretty much from the start, mainly because it was an absolutely broken game at launch, no speeders, no space , broken Jedi system.

It never recovered.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Voblat

[Ricktur]

no endgame? do you realize there are two operations, open world pvp on ilum, two level 50 flash points, and they already announced more flashpoints next month?

 

wow dude, wow.

 

plus there are a lot of people stil leveling so not everyone is 50 yet, thats why they dont have anything to do because they nerd leveled and now they have to wait for the rest of us to catch up.

[Knighty]

There's a lot of rose-tinted glasses when it comes to SWG, 33 Professions with half of them broken, no quests/story of any kind other than missions terminals which generated a random point in the middle of nowhere. Entirely dead world with nothing in it until Player Cities came out, crap like the Covert/Overt system (So awesome to see someone farming your Emp/Rebel NPCs because they are Covert and not attackable by players...). Lets not forget the macro system that allowed you to make yourself a bot that played the game for you either.

 

SWG had an amazing crafting system, and an amazing space expansion that was basically a recreation of TIE Fighter/X-Wing, that's about it. There's a reason the devs decided to completely re-do the combat system once, and then revamp the whole game and demolish professions left and right the second time around. Because it didn't work.

 

"In SWG, you had one character per server (unless you unlocked jedi, but besides that). I can't be a Doctor, and a weaponsmith, and a chef, and have a fighting profession. Reliance on other players was forced upon you."

 

And this is one of the exact things every MMO these days tries to avoid; forcing you to rely on others is a problem. Its one thing to want a helpful, friendly and interactive community.

 

Its something entirely else to limit you to one character slot, and prevent you from ever really achieving anything because you don't want to talk to the player spamming General about what level he can get a mount at for the 8th time. SWG was shut down because it failed, it's not some conspiracy.

 

EDIT: To address the other issue of end-game content, same thing as every other MMORPG, get to max, farm for better loot, wait on resets, get bored and do something else. That's part of the genre.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Knighty