Maybe a better way to word this would be to say that there are some obvious core aspects every MMO should have that BW clearly forgot to put into this game. Either way you look at it, the point is the same. BW missed some pretty glaring parts of this game that the OP highlighted.

/agree Looks as if the first page will end up being nothing but stickies.

Yep. Once all the hype and flare wear off people will realize what this game really is: a single player game with bits of multiplayer sprinkled in.

I specifically tried to avoid comparing this to a single player game. I wanted to compare the single player feel of this game to the multiplayer feel of a real MMO.

There have been posts explaining why story mixed with MMOs don't work. The OP and your post are a testament to why it doesn't work. Story belongs in a single player game. If they wanted to make a single player game, then they should have just made a single player game. This is an MMO, and MMOs have specific qualities that make them MMOs. Endgame content is one of those specific qualities.

The core of this game is broken, and no amount of bug fixes can change that.

I agree with this post.

Its another known problem that I'm not sure the devs have acknowledged yet. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

SWG didn't fail because it was a sandbox game. It failed because the developers completely changed how the game worked and disregarded feedback from the userbase about these changes. The sandbox aspect of SWG is what made it so attractive.

SWG failed because SOE drove it into the ground and disregarded all user feedback regarding their ridiculous changes. Before that the game was considered successful, at least IMO. It was never as big as WOW and even before the new changes I doubt it had the potential ever even come close to WOW, but it had all of the aspects that I personally think a successful MMO should have. If you're focusing on the success of SWG, you're missing my point. Yes SWTOR is doing great now, plenty of subs, good storyline, bla bla bla. I'm trying to picture what I'll be doing in this game 6 months, one year, two years from now. Maybe the masses will like doing these quests over and over again. I don't know, but I hope something changes. Like many others I've invested a lot of hope in this game over the years and I want to see it in a good light. You guys know that we're not making these threads to try and drive the game into the ground, right? We're trying to get the attention of the devs in hopes that they will notice what we're noticing and start to turn the direction of this game more towards an MMO rather than a single player type game. This game has so much potential, and I want to see it succeed. I just don't think it will in its current state.

Honestly, I don't want it to fail. This game was hyped for YEARS, so it doesn't surprise me that it's making so many initial sales. It's a great single player game much like the original KOTOR was. The entire point of my post was to assess its MULTIPLAYER aspects and how successful it will be as an MMO. People will buy it, people will like it, people will play it. My question is, does it have what it takes to sustain players who want to play an MMO and not a single player game.

I'm not here to complain about the UI, the combat delays, the random FPS, or even the nonexistent customer service and feedback. To me, all of these things are tolerable since they are actually fixable within a foreseeable future. I am willing to tolerate all minor things in any MMO as long as I see longevity and potential in a game, but this game does not have this. The problems that I have with this game cannot be fixed with a patch or update. Something is wrong with the core of this game to me. The main points I'm going to be focusing on in my post are: - Community - Endgame Content/Longevity - Linear Gameplay To me, these points are what separate an MMO from a single player game. Throughout my post I am going to be using SWG as a comparison. I know many people don't like that and keep saying its like comparing apples to oranges since one is a sandbox and the other is a theme park type game. The fact of the matter is they are both MMOs, and there are specific qualities to any MMO that make them successful. (And frankly you can compare apples to oranges since they are both foods. I like apples more. See?) Community Maybe I speak for myself when I say this, but any MMO that I have played would have been insanely boring were it not for the community. An active community is one of the core factors that separates an MMO from a single player game. This game is severely lacking in this department and the problem cannot be fixed with a couple of patches. Example In SWG, if I want a new custom made weapon I needed to contact another player who has mastered the Weaponsmith profession. Need new armor? Get an armorsmith. Need some buffs to go grinding? Find the nearest Master Doctor. Even crafters had the option to hire Master scouters to go and find rare resources they used for crafting. You could almost say that the community was forced upon you, which is what made the game so fun. In SWTOR, I have NONE, absolutely no reason to ask another player for anything other than to help on a mission. The skillsets in this game to me don't seem like they were really designed in any way for community reliance and interaction. Seeing as how I can have so many alts, it seems that the skillsets were designed in a way to emphasize single player gameplay - which is fine for those who like single player games, but I wanted to play an MMO. In SWG, you had one character per server (unless you unlocked jedi, but besides that). I can't be a Doctor, and a weaponsmith, and a chef, and have a fighting profession. Reliance on other players was forced upon you. Endgame Content I have to admit, I'm not yet at level 50 (this is due to the fact that leveling is ridiculously repetitive and boring IMO). Before I came to these forums I asked myself, "What am I even going to do when I hit level 50?" Lo and behold, I come here to find numerous posts with people complaining about what they should do now that they are at level 50. The responses I have seen to these post have been absolutely astounding. People telling them that they didn't take their sweet motherloving time, and that they should roll out a new character. **** that. I haven't even gotten to 50 and these quests are already a bore to me. Am I the only one concerned that other players that are at level 50 have nothing else to do? Do others not realize that we will one day be in their place? What happens after I get that second character to 50? Am I doomed to do this 6 more times? And then what after that?? Example In SWG, Mastering your profession was just the BEGINNING of the game. There were so many places to explore, so many items, caves, and even PVP was worth playing. And if you no longer liked your profession, at any time you could DROP your skillset and start grinding one of the other 31 professions. There was no point in the game where I had the opportunity to stop and think "Well what do I do after I finish X?". The idea never even BEGAN to cross my mind. SWTOR hasn't even been out for a *********** WEEK and I've already begun to ask myself what I'll be doing afterwards. The answers that I have seen so far don't seem to provide any potential for longevity AT ALL. PVP? You want me to JUST pvp for the next couple of months before they roll out the next sequence of "fetch this, kill that" quests? MMOs are supposed to be made to sustain players for YEARS. If people got to level 50 with ease in a couple of days, what makes you think the miniscule amount of content Bioware tried to squeeze out will entertain them for very long? Linear Gameplay I get no sense of freedom or adventure while playing this game. The planets are constricting, the spawns start off in the same place and barely move (the ones I've seen at least, correct me if I'm wrong). I don't want my hand to be held while playing an MMO. I feel like my ability to explore is limited. Kind of hard to elaborate on this since its pretty straightforward. The point is, linear gameplay = not fun. Example I hate to use SWG as an example again, but I think that game really hit the nail on the head when it comes to non linear gameplay and exploration. There were 8+ different planets, almost all of which I had different reasons to explore and come back to. Each of these planets were huge, had several Points of Interest, and would take 30mins-an hour to go from one end to another on foot. You could go anywhere and explore anything. SWTOR is a giant hallway that I never have any reason to go back for. In Conclusion I've used SWG as a comparison because to me it was a game that had all of the basic elements any MMO should possess. I'm sure you could make the same argument with nearly any other successful MMO. It seems to me that Bioware purposefully aimed at making this more of a single player game with minor multiplayer elements. Some people like that, which is totally fine. This game will last them as long as any single player game will last. From what I've observed, this game does not have the potential to cater to the type of players who enjoy MMOs and it will not in the near future. The way the game is structured, any future patches will probably be designed to enhance the single player experience. This is why I believe this game will fail.

Thanks for your thorough reasoning as to why you dislike these parts of the game. I agree, leveling got repetitive really fast. Even in SWG, grinding mobs for hours on end was for some reason more enjoyable than this. Brace yourself for the onslaught of fanbois who will defend this game to the death. I can't really blame them though. After investing so much hope into this game, most people really WANT to believe it is the best thing since sliced bread.

Yes. The parts I enjoy most about an MMO is the community. I like see lots of other players running around. I like being in a remote or distant part of the game and still ending up running into someone. Every town feels like a ghost town. They need to do something about the instancing pretty soon. If I wanted to play a single player game, I'd go play a single player game.

OP, give this game about 2-3 more weeks and you'll begin to find more sympathetic players. Simply put, this game isn't really an MMO. It's a single player game with a dash of multiplayer aspects to it, but not enough to be considered an MMO in my book. People who enjoy the single player feel are really enjoying it right now, but once they've played enough or hit level 50, they're going to hit a brick wall. The fact of the matter is, there isn't a whole lot to do in the game. Some people are realizing it once they've hit 50. Others, such as yourself, are realizing this sooner. With all that being said, there's clearly several people who currently enjoy the game which is all that really matters right now. For people like me who really prefer the sandbox/endgame content feel of an MMO, this game won't last.