Raphael_diSanto Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 There is change for the good and change for the bad, the bad far outweigh the good in this expansion. Good : Nice cutscenes Bad : Companions reduced to shells Player Characters reduced to emotionless voiceless husks Cannot customize companions anymore Removal of surge was a complete blunder, now it is one stat for two stats, makes no sense EXTREMELY short story line No new operations No new Warzones Required to pvp for pve stuff, beyond dumb. Stuff people spent REAL life money on was taken away, never to be seen again. The list goes on. I have been a loyal fan of this game for 3 years now, and I loved the changes that 3.0 rolled in, but the changes in this are just too much, and it is not the game I fell in love with anymore. It has become a single player focused 2004 rpg with multiplayer elements for a whopping 120 Euro a year. There are plenty of other games out there that offer meaty well thought out expansions every 3 months that include all the player bases, RP, PVP, PVE, and story, that warrants 120 euro a year, not this. This doesn't even warrant 30 euro a year. I will probably let my subscription lapse for the first time in 3 years come November, and I doubt I will come back save to maybe play the rest of the expansions which I found out you can get through the EA Origin store, no sub required. Oh, I think it's fairly subjective. You can't arbitrarily say such and such a thing is universally good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSitruc Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I found out you can get through the EA Origin store, no sub required. really? any idea on a price? i was planning on dropping my sub as well at the end of the month and then resubbing again to pick up the follow episodes 6 at a time. That may not be necessary if the price is right lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Oh, I think it's fairly subjective. You can't arbitrarily say such and such a thing is universally good or bad. When a ton of people agree on change being bad, it is bad. A turd is a turd no matter how you dress it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 really? any idea on a price? i was planning on dropping my sub as well at the end of the month and then resubbing again to pick up the follow episodes 6 at a time. That may not be necessary if the price is right lol I will have to check after they release the release for the next chapters, it was the same for the first 9 chapters and early release, you could get it up until a point then it was taken off the store. Right now there is nothing there. Just check back every so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 When a ton of people agree on change being bad, it is bad. A turd is a turd no matter how you dress it up. Ah, subjective forum metrics. Love them, really. You realize that that's confirmation bias, right? Let's have a look at the list, shall we? Companions reduced to shells - Personally, I prefer this. I would consider this a great change. Player Characters reduced to emotionless voiceless husks - I do not like this, but we still have proper voices in story cutscenes, and it's an improvement over the Rishi/Yavin method of the NPC just talking at us in the world. Cannot customize companions anymore - You mean mechanically? I also prefer this, I would consider this a good change, as above. Can still do the old facial customizations and aesthetic gear customizations, which are - for me - the important parts. Removal of surge was a complete blunder, now it is one stat for two stats, makes no sense - Means I don't have to worry about as many stupid numbers and can get on with experiencing the story. I like this change. EXTREMELY short story line - I do not like this, but I do understand the reasoning. The more complex and numerous the cut scenes, the longer they take to create. Dialogue takes more time and effort than combat, in a video game. No new operations - I don't play operations, so I don't care about this. Others might call this a good thing, because it means no time or resources were spent developing this content. No new Warzones - I don't PvP, so I don't care about this. As above, others might call it a good thing. Required to pvp for pve stuff, beyond dumb. - Completely agree with you here, but others' opinions differ. Stuff people spent REAL life money on was taken away, never to be seen again. - This is the only one I would agree is probably universally bad, because you should never take stuff away that real money was spent on. I'm not sure if any other player would disagree with this assessment, but I don't think so. See? I agree with some, disagree with others, and can also accept that others may not share my opinions. Very little is completely, totally and universally bad. It just falls under the head of "Stuff I don't like, but others might." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vember Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 When a ton of people agree on change being bad, it is bad. A turd is a turd no matter how you dress it up. Except there's just as many people that disagree it's bad, from what I've seen. So what does that make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 When a ton of people agree on change being bad, it is bad. A turd is a turd no matter how you dress it up. More people like it than hate it. See how that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegasussgc Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) When a ton of people agree on change being bad, it is bad. A turd is a turd no matter how you dress it up. It is perfectly fine for people to have their own opinions about a story and the 4.0 changes. Anecdotally, I've been hearing nothing but positive things in gen chat. Hearing about how people love the story, how awesome it is, what their favorite dialogue has been...that gives me the impression that a lot of people like the expansion so far. This is from people in-game, not on the forums. It is really difficult to quantify just how many like the changes vs those who don't. Personally, I take more stock in the opinions of people actually in the game and playing it, then those who played for 5 minutes and rage-quit. I'm not saying that is you, but there are definitely a few like that whining on the forums. Edited October 21, 2015 by pegasussgc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Ah, subjective forum metrics. Love them, really. You realize that that's confirmation bias, right? Let's have a look at the list, shall we? Companions reduced to shells - Personally, I prefer this. I would consider this a great change. Player Characters reduced to emotionless voiceless husks - I do not like this, but we still have proper voices in story cutscenes, and it's an improvement over the Rishi/Yavin method of the NPC just talking at us in the world. Cannot customize companions anymore - You mean mechanically? I also prefer this, I would consider this a good change, as above. Can still do the old facial customizations and aesthetic gear customizations, which are - for me - the important parts. Removal of surge was a complete blunder, now it is one stat for two stats, makes no sense - Means I don't have to worry about as many stupid numbers and can get on with experiencing the story. I like this change. EXTREMELY short story line - I do not like this, but I do understand the reasoning. The more complex and numerous the cut scenes, the longer they take to create. Dialogue takes more time and effort than combat, in a video game. No new operations - I don't play operations, so I don't care about this. Others might call this a good thing, because it means no time or resources were spent developing this content. No new Warzones - I don't PvP, so I don't care about this. As above, others might call it a good thing. Required to pvp for pve stuff, beyond dumb. - Completely agree with you here, but others' opinions differ. Stuff people spent REAL life money on was taken away, never to be seen again. - This is the only one I would agree is probably universally bad, because you should never take stuff away that real money was spent on. I'm not sure if any other player would disagree with this assessment, but I don't think so. See? I agree with some, disagree with others, and can also accept that others may not share my opinions. Very little is completely, totally and universally bad. It just falls under the head of "Stuff I don't like, but others might." The companion customization I was talking cosmetically. ALl the new companions we got, we are stuck with what they are wearing, which is just bad. Just because you don't play part of the game, does not mean that player base does not matter. People will not stick around and pay 120 euro a year for a ridiculously short single player story line when there are plenty of other games out there that have more high quality expansions 4 times as often which include all the player bases, not just one. Sure you can disagree, but I have been reading through the forums over the day and see pretty much nothing but negativity toward this expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 More people like it than hate it. See how that works? Really, would you like to point me to the forum where people like it, because from what I am seeing, it is pure negativity with a side of reluctant praise. Same with general chat, it is praise for the cut scenes and hk 55 and mostly negative talk about a lot of the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The companion customization I was talking cosmetically. ALl the new companions we got, we are stuck with what they are wearing, which is just bad. Just because you don't play part of the game, does not mean that player base does not matter. People will not stick around and pay 120 euro a year for a ridiculously short single player story line when there are plenty of other games out there that have more high quality expansions 4 times as often which include all the player bases, not just one. Sure you can disagree, but I have been reading through the forums over the day and see pretty much nothing but negativity toward this expansion. Because that's what you're looking for. I'm certainly not high on this expansion, but you seem to think that the majority of players agree with you. It's fairly split on the forums which means it's likely more liked than not by the player base as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarathAnno Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 It is perfectly fine for people to have their own opinions about a story and the 4.0 changes. Anecdotally, I've been hearing nothing but positive things in gen chat. Hearing about how people love the story, how awesome it is, what their favorite dialogue has been...that gives me the impression that a lot of people like the expansion so far. This is from people in-game, not on the forums. It is really difficult to quantify just how many like the changes vs those who don't. Personally, I take more stock in the opinions of people actually in the game and playing it, then those who played for 5 minutes and rage-quit. I'm not saying that is you, but there are definitely a few like that whining on the forums. The problem is will people love it as much the third, fourth, or tenth time? People loved the storytelling too when SWtOR first launched and then subscriber numbers fell through the floor because it turned out most people were happy to see it one time and move on. So will the non story elements keep people playing and paying month to month? For me the answer so far is no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teladis Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Really, would you like to point me to the forum where people like it, because from what I am seeing, it is pure negativity with a side of reluctant praise. Same with general chat, it is praise for the cut scenes and hk 55 and mostly negative talk about a lot of the changes. Lots of people in the forums like it. Just the "Loudest" seem to want to spam things over and over again. Also ingame many people are excited and singing praises to the game. Are you blind? We have a huge following of people happy with the game right now. What are you reading? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The problem is will people love it as much the third, fourth, or tenth time? People loved the storytelling too when SWtOR first launched and then subscriber numbers fell through the floor because it turned out most people were happy to see it one time and move on. So will the non story elements keep people playing and paying month to month? For me the answer so far is no. Someone sees it. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Lots of people in the forums like it. Just the "Loudest" seem to want to spam things over and over again. Also ingame many people are excited and singing praises to the game. Are you blind? We have a huge following of people happy with the game right now. What are you reading? lol Probably because the people that didn't like it, already stopped playing, yesterday was pretty much a plethora of complaining on TRE. I enjoyed the story, but that is -it-. It was very well written, but I highly doubt I will play it through more than 2 times, why should I? It is the same homogenous stuff we have been getting for the last 1 and a half years, with a ton of stuff taken away and a lack of any meaty stuff being added. Why should I pay 120 euro a year for expansions that are done within a few hours that are released once a year? I enjoyed this game for three years now, but if you cannot see the downward spiral of laziness, I dunno anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHobbit Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 well I came back 10 days ago after 8 months,played a new smuggler til end of chapter 1. I felt it was a good ending of the arc and not interested in other chapter. I unsubbed to day, might return in 6 -8 month after the full release of chapters. I too dislike the "nerfing" of companions. and the changes to hk-51 and treek. Now for my tin foil hat time. I think a lot of the trimming and removing of skills,items,etc is to prepare for the release of SWTOR for high end game consoles like xbox one and ps4. as both of them are basically a PC. if they trim it down enough then when they release the console version in about 6-8 months the pc players(us) will not be too upset about the final changes they make. I am reminded of the story how you boil a frog,if you put the frog(alive) into a boiling pot of water, the frog will jump out right away. if you place the frog in a pot of cool water, and slowly raise the temp. you can cook them alive. I have no hard evidence of this happening,but just a gut feeling. I was playing SWTOR when it first came out. The list of servers was 4-5 times what we have now. If they do a server merger again,Then I can see even more reason to move to a console friendly game engine(silver light?) depending on how the final chapter of 4.0 goes.I could even see a shutdown of swtor 1 and a release of swtor 2. with part of what we are doing in this 4.0 as a extended beta test of their new ideas. and if they turn off swtor 1, and bring up swtor 2. with all the micro transactions a very large new revenue stream is opened. my wildest thought is that with all the changes to flashpoints where you can solo them,maybe they will release a stand alone version of swtor without the MMO part. ok now you can start flaming me. I have shared my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I am reminded of the story how you boil a frog,if you put the frog(alive) into a boiling pot of water, the frog will jump out right away. if you place the frog in a pot of cool water, and slowly raise the temp. you can cook them alive. Except that the story is a myth, just like ostriches sticking their heads into sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 well I came back 10 days ago after 8 months,played a new smuggler til end of chapter 1. I felt it was a good ending of the arc and not interested in other chapter. I unsubbed to day, might return in 6 -8 month after the full release of chapters. I too dislike the "nerfing" of companions. and the changes to hk-51 and treek. Now for my tin foil hat time. I think a lot of the trimming and removing of skills,items,etc is to prepare for the release of SWTOR for high end game consoles like xbox one and ps4. as both of them are basically a PC. if they trim it down enough then when they release the console version in about 6-8 months the pc players(us) will not be too upset about the final changes they make. I am reminded of the story how you boil a frog,if you put the frog(alive) into a boiling pot of water, the frog will jump out right away. if you place the frog in a pot of cool water, and slowly raise the temp. you can cook them alive. I have no hard evidence of this happening,but just a gut feeling. I was playing SWTOR when it first came out. The list of servers was 4-5 times what we have now. If they do a server merger again,Then I can see even more reason to move to a console friendly game engine(silver light?) depending on how the final chapter of 4.0 goes.I could even see a shutdown of swtor 1 and a release of swtor 2. with part of what we are doing in this 4.0 as a extended beta test of their new ideas. and if they turn off swtor 1, and bring up swtor 2. with all the micro transactions a very large new revenue stream is opened. my wildest thought is that with all the changes to flashpoints where you can solo them,maybe they will release a stand alone version of swtor without the MMO part. ok now you can start flaming me. I have shared my thoughts Not a very good tinfoil hat theory when they haven't changed class mechanics. Until they significantly reduce the amount of abilities per class, it won't be able to port to console. Not to mention it would take 10 years to get the engine in a state that a console could run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Not a very good tinfoil hat theory when they haven't changed class mechanics. Until they significantly reduce the amount of abilities per class, it won't be able to port to console. Not to mention it would take 10 years to get the engine in a state that a console could run. Funny, except wrong on the engine part. Or do you not know that current consoles are just custom PCs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Funny, except wrong on the engine part. Or do you not know that current consoles are just custom PCs? Umm, people with high end PCs can barely get this game to run at high resolutions with a good framerate. Unless they want to port the game with medium graphics settings and no shadows, I don't see it happening on the current engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Honestly I simply feel like I'm no longer the target audience for Bioware in this MMO. I feel like I've been left out in the cold, and the fact that my guild pretty much died off for me when my GM quit killed almost any motivation for me to continue playing. This really makes me take you more seriously then your OP, and I think you should do as every other dissatisfied consumer would do . . . That being said - can I have your stuff? On the other hand there might be a or a few more group oriented content after the new year, I feel people in general are jumping the gun to fast . . . That being said - Making this game your life main event is always gonna make it a disappointment, it is a distraction at the most and as distraction goes I have had worse ... .... ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsenex Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I disagree. The game in itself is worth the 15 dollars a month. Its the best 'value' for gaming. If you do think this is the case. Feel free to leave. I completely disagree with your entire review. I think the expansion is great. Pacing is great. I got to chap 3 in one night, then went to Oricon did the daily there and then switched toons and did plenty more. You seem to be one of those 'Game Locusts' that eat content voraciously then complains there is no value and post about leaving. The truth is no game would please you, and what you are looking for simply does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Umm, people with high end PCs can barely get this game to run at high resolutions with a good framerate. Unless they want to port the game with medium graphics settings and no shadows, I don't see it happening on the current engine. Then you also don't understand how consoles work. You do not need nearly as much hardware on a console, because the devs know exacly what platform they are designing for. SWTOR actually runs decently on a modest PC, a lot depends on the PC being setup correctly and having a decent Internet connection, but a 4 year old Intel Core i5 and a three year old video card play it just fine at 1080p. A PS4 or XBox One would also play it fine, with some tweaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Funny, except wrong on the engine part. Or do you not know that current consoles are just custom PCs?um, is this serious? porting over games is a lot of work. still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 The expansion is a fun little story that one can knock out in one evening. That's it. Just one evening. Kinda bad really, especially the pacing. I played for 4 hours last night. I made it to like the middle of Chapter IV of the new story. I'm sure a person could blow through the entire new expansion story in one night if they wanted to, but I see no need to rush through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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