(KOTFE) Do you really have to do PvP to recruit a PvE companion?

[AngFour]

Eh... I just won't do Dr. Lokin then. From what I can tell, you only NEED the main characters.

 

I once thought like a lot of people here, in that the developers could be 'forcing' you to do certain content. And I thought that way....until I stopped thinking that way. As soon as you let go of the need for this digital stuff that EA can take away from you in a second, you gain a new appreciation for the game.

 

Fortunately I don't have to give Doctor Lokin a bunch of Bioanalysis stuff because he's a former companion (still have to do the Rakghoul event though; he doesn't auto join. And with a perfectly legit story reason I might add) . But I don't see any of my other characters making the effort (my Consular, if I run her through KotFE, might because she'll auto get Qyzen and she's Biochem, so she has the supplies Lokin needs). My AGENT wanted Doctor Lokin because it was either Vector or Lokin as her main companions (Lokin is my second favorite). My agent is being a completionist. My other characters are not going to be.

 

So I get what you're saying. Nobody needs anyone. And I'm not one of the people complaining about PvPing for Pierce/4-X. I did it. Didn't particularly enjoy it, but I did it (and participated in the matches) because Pierce was someone I wanted. And now I have him as my very visible PvP trophy Better than yet another mount that I'll never use

Edited October 30, 2015 by AngFour

[HanoverFist]

Gee, I can not fathom any reason these lowly,dumb and entitled PvE people just wont willingly line up to be slaughtered over and over by the experienced and super skilled PvP gods of online awesomeness. All while enjoying their oh so witty banter and critiques on PvP skill levels.

 

Because if there was one thing that makes PvP great in SWTOR , it is the companions....

 

@#$% that companion, you guys can have it. If I want PVP I'll play a game made for it.

Edited October 30, 2015 by HanoverFist

[Woetoo]

Actually, it's YOU who made the game less enjoyable for yourself. You wanted something so bad that you did something you didn't enjoy to get it. Personally, I don't get that. I also don't get why you blame the developers for your own behavior.

 

Fair point. I see your point and disagree.

 

My experience of MMO's is that the Bartle Tests are roughly about right. There are groups of players who enjoy different content and have different goals. There is some overlap and a need for the players who do overlap different styles of game play to be able to experience those different aspects of the game. PvE'ers by our nature for the most part want a feeling of ongoing progression, to pit ourselves against a mechanic and over time - beat it. A grind, even if we don't want to acknowledge that sometimes. PvP'ers in my experience seek much more short term goals and ones that acknowledge their epeen. Rankings. MvPs. Leaderboards. In SWTOR, even the "a unique mount or title that only I and a select few others got".

 

It would therefore be my assumption... and I can only state what I think, not what you want me to think... that PvP'ers aren't the primary demographic for collecting companions. Some undoubtedly will - as I say, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. But the majority... the core... nope.

 

I think PvP is essential to MMO's. I think it needs to be done right (I don't think SWTOR delivers that). But it needs to be optional and objectives that involve it need to be primarily aimed at what the Bartle Test calls "killers". Yes, I might be wrong. But the number of threads that pop up each time something like this happens makes me think I'm not in a minority.

 

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Edited October 30, 2015 by Woetoo

[Leklor]

And..... The thread has returned to its first love: Insults, mud-slinging, PvE vs. PvP mentalities, judging other players, telling what they need or don't need.

Is it so hard to even consider discussing the issue for once?

There have been, beyond threats by sitters, a number of very valid points as to how the quest, in its current form, is beneffiting no one at all.

Not PvEers because they have to PvP.

Not PvPers because they have to bear with PvEers that ruin their games (And in some servers it turns a slightly disadvantaged faction into a permanently loosing one)

Not Bioware, because it ****s their metrics up. And it gives the wrong impression about people's usual playstyle.

It sets a precedent of mixing content that doesn't fit together at all.

 

Basically, while maybe not putting a PvE alternative (If that hurts our dear PvPers' feelings so much), the quest needs a serious rework. Right now it's not good AT ALL.

It doesn't work as an introduction for PvP (You are tossed in it without much explanation), it fails as an incentive (Since it's too long for non-PvPers and far too short for a PvPer to even feel like he accomplished something.), and for other reasons listed in posts above.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Leklor

[JDiablos]

Fair point. I see your point and disagree.

 

My experience of MMO's is that the Bartle Tests are roughly about right. There are groups of players who enjoy different content and have different goals. There is some overlap and a need for the players who do overlap different styles of game play to be able to experience those different aspects of the game. PvE'ers by our nature for the most part want a feeling of ongoing progression, to pit ourselves against a mechanic and over time - beat it. A grind, even if we don't want to acknowledge that sometimes. PvP'ers in my experience seek much more short term goals and ones that acknowledge their epeen. Rankings. MvPs. Leaderboards. In SWTOR, even the "a unique mount or title that only I and a select few others got".

 

It would therefore be my assumption... and I can only state what I think, not what you want me to think... that PvP'ers aren't the primary demographic for collecting companions. Some undoubtedly will - as I say, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. But the majority... the core... nope.

 

I think PvP is essential to MMO's. I think it needs to be done right (I don't think SWTOR delivers that). But it needs to be optional and objectives that involve it need to be primarily aimed at what the Bartle Test calls "killers". Yes, I might be wrong. But the number of threads that pop up each time something like this happens makes me think I'm not in a minority.

 

[This line intentionally left blank]

 

This is actually a good post. I've never read the Bartle test stuff before but it's quite interesting. Your point about PvPers not being the target audience for companions is also a good one. In this case though I think PvP players appreciate there being a single nod (in the form of these 2 companions) as a validation of their gameplay choice. The idea that PvEers want to come in and take even that small thing away after having an entire expansion and every other piece of content and companions dedicated to them is upsetting.

 

A fair compromise is one I think Leklor (?) proposed which would be an entirely new companion that could be earned via PvP. And that same companion would only be earned by achievement and not participation. This would validate the PvP playstyle by gating something cool and exclusive behind it. It would also eliminate the status quo where Sith Warriors and Troopers can bypass the PvP element for the current companions. Obviously it would have to be a desirable and possibly even iconic companion and it would have to require a decently high proficiency in PvP before it would qualify as suitable reward.

 

Giving another way to recruit the 4x and Pierce right now without replacing it with something for strictly PvP play would seem bad form though. As it would further push the narrative that Bioware see's the PvP community as second class citizens in their world.

[Jedi_riches]

And..... The thread has returned to its first love: Insults, mud-slinging, PvE vs. PvP mentalities, judging other players, telling what they need or don't need.

Is it so hard to even consider discussing the issue for once?

There have been, beyond threats by sitters, a number of very valid points as to how the quest, in its current form, is beneffiting no one at all.

Not PvEers because they have to PvP.

Not PvPers because they have to bear with PvEers that ruin their games (And in some servers it turns a slightly disadvantaged faction into a permanently loosing one)

Not Bioware, because it ****s their metrics up. And it gives the wrong impression about people's usual playstyle.

It sets a precedent of mixing content that doesn't fit together at all.

 

Basically, while maybe not putting a PvE alternative (If that hurts our dear PvPers' feelings so much), the quest needs a serious rework. Right now it's not good AT ALL.

It doesn't work as an introduction for PvP (You are tossed in it without much explanation), it fails as an incentive (Since it's too long for non-PvPers and far too short for a PvPer to even feel like he accomplished something.), and for other reasons listed in posts above.

 

 

 

Sorry on my part I got baited with a personal question on my integrity.

I am still more than willing to discuss this topic, with individuals open to discussing alternatives be it a PvE option or a re-work of the existing objective which I think benefits no-one in particular.

 

For what its worth, you are completely right on the fact that it is a dangerous precedent on mixing two parts of the game together, something we seemingly cant do as adults without making things personal insults.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jedi_riches

[Leklor]

A fair compromise is one I think Leklor (?) proposed which would be an entirely new companion that could be earned via PvP. And that same companion would only be earned by achievement and not participation. This would validate the PvP playstyle by gating something cool and exclusive behind it.

 

I think it was both of us, actually.

At least, you offered the idea of offering companions for every playstyle and I built upon it and offered the idea of a completely new companion, similar to Ranked PvP specific mounts.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Leklor

[Master-Nala]

Is it so hard to even consider discussing the issue for once?

 

That assumes that folks can agree on what the issue is.

 

For my part, I disagree that there is any issue here to deal with. It's a quest. An optional quest in a video game. Any feelings of "need" or "forced" are incorrect as a matter of definition.

 

There have been, beyond threats by sitters, a number of very valid points as to how the quest, in its current form, is beneffiting no one at all.

 

I disagree. But then I also don't acknowledge that there is a problem to solve.

 

Basically, while maybe not putting a PvE alternative (If that hurts our dear PvPers' feelings so much), the quest needs a serious rework. Right now it's not good AT ALL.

It doesn't work as an introduction for PvP (You are tossed in it without much explanation), it fails as an incentive (Since it's too long for non-PvPers and far too short for a PvPer to even feel like he accomplished something.), and for other reasons listed in posts above.

 

Really? It's not PvP players who are suggesting a change. You bear the burden of persuasion as you are seeking a change. It behooves you to maintain the high road at all times, because once you let it devolve, you lose.

[Jadescythe]

Fair point. I see your point and disagree.

 

My experience of MMO's is that the Bartle Tests are roughly about right. There are groups of players who enjoy different content and have different goals. There is some overlap and a need for the players who do overlap different styles of game play to be able to experience those different aspects of the game. PvE'ers by our nature for the most part want a feeling of ongoing progression, to pit ourselves against a mechanic and over time - beat it. A grind, even if we don't want to acknowledge that sometimes. PvP'ers in my experience seek much more short term goals and ones that acknowledge their epeen. Rankings. MvPs. Leaderboards. In SWTOR, even the "a unique mount or title that only I and a select few others got".

 

It would therefore be my assumption... and I can only state what I think, not what you want me to think... that PvP'ers aren't the primary demographic for collecting companions. Some undoubtedly will - as I say, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. But the majority... the core... nope.

 

I think PvP is essential to MMO's. I think it needs to be done right (I don't think SWTOR delivers that). But it needs to be optional and objectives that involve it need to be primarily aimed at what the Bartle Test calls "killers". Yes, I might be wrong. But the number of threads that pop up each time something like this happens makes me think I'm not in a minority.

 

[This line intentionally left blank]

 

This argument assumes that there are 2 distinct types of players. The way I view the game is that everyone is a SWTOR player. Whether you primarily focus on PvE or PvP, SWTOR has both playstyles incorporated into it, but primarily it has always focused on the player's story. There are some PvPers who are literally only here for PvP, but that is an extreme minority (believe me, I know most of them well). But players who participate in PvP at least occassionally are a majority or at least evenly split with the rest of the population.

 

Incorporating all playstyles into the main focus of the game (the main story) seems to be a smart move imo. It rewards players for playing the way they want to play without forcing them into content to actually progress through the main story. Completionists in a game that has FPs, Ops, strongholds, GSF, PvP, world bosses, dailies, crafting, etc. are going to have to be willing to take part in all aspects of the game to get everything.

[Leklor]

Really? It's not PvP players who are suggesting a change. You bear the burden of persuasion as you are seeking a change. It behooves you to maintain the high road at all times, because once you let it devolve, you lose.

 

Of course they are not suggesting a change. They don't want "their" reward available to more people, it's their thing only.

And as you say, you don't think there is a problem. Fine, that's fine. But then if there have been several threads started then it indicated that many are not satisfied with the form this quest currently takes. It wouldn't hurt to actually try and imagine a way to appease everyone beyond telling people to "Suck it up and do PvP."

If you feel there is no problem, then please participate in the discussion if you wish (I can't stop you) but for once, accept that others are having an issue with it and would like to see it improved upon/fixed/changed.

[Billupsat]

I think it was both of us, actually.

At least, you offered the idea of offering companions for every playstyle and I built upon it and offered the idea of a completely new companion, similar to Ranked PvP specific mounts.

 

I wouldn't mind PvP specifics companions like the Starfortress specific companions.

[Master-Nala]

Of course they are not suggesting a change. They don't want "their" reward available to more people, it's their thing only.

And as you say, you don't think there is a problem. Fine, that's fine. But then if there have been several threads started then it indicated that many are not satisfied with the form this quest currently takes. It wouldn't hurt to actually try and imagine a way to appease everyone beyond telling people to "Suck it up and do PvP."

 

Why is that the standard? Because some number of people take issue with the quest, there is a problem?

 

I disagree. Here is the thing. As I've said before, if this quest were actually required to progress in the solo story, I would agree with you. But there's no indication that's the case. There's no indication this quest is needed for anything other than getting this one companion.

 

In my opinion, the developers have anticipated the reasonable objections and dealt with them. First, you only need talk to the companion to move on to Lokin and others. Second, all companions have similar mechanics. Finally, the affected companions go automatically to the classes that get them via the class story.

 

Any remaining objections boil down to, "I would like to obtain this companion, but I don't want to PvP." Certainly I can acknowledge that people have that complaint, but I cannot consider that a valid complaint. The companion has been designated a reward for a PvP quest. A person's distaste for PvP is not a relevant concern.

 

If you feel there is no problem, then please participate in the discussion if you wish (I can't stop you) but for once, accept that others are having an issue with it and would like to see it improved upon/fixed/changed.

 

That's the thing. They are not having an "issue". They want something, but are unwilling to do what is required to obtain it. I didn't particularly enjoy writing the trial brief I did this week, but I did wish to remain employed so I wrote it.

 

Any 'issue' is fully within the control of those who claim to have the problem. Here are the solutions that will deal with this 'problem':

 

1) Don't earn the companion. Prior to 4.0 you didn't have him, so whence comes this burning desire to have him now?

 

2) Play up to 20 WZ matches, earn companion. You get what you want via the method provided. Simple.

 

Either solution resolves any possible "problem." So why isn't that the answer?

[Woetoo]

A fair compromise is one I think Leklor (?) proposed which would be an entirely new companion that could be earned via PvP. And that same companion would only be earned by achievement and not participation. This would validate the PvP playstyle by gating something cool and exclusive behind it.

 

I think it was both of us, actually.

At least, you offered the idea of offering companions for every playstyle and I built upon it and offered the idea of a completely new companion, similar to Ranked PvP specific mounts.

 

I whole heartedly agree that PvP'ers have been given the short shrift within SWTOR. And anything that can be gained as a prestigious reward is worth defending. Is a companion that prestige recognition you've always sought?

 

But... again, drawing upon the Bartle Test as a foundation... I would ask is it really the PvP aspect of the game that is drawing you into the need for a companion. And when I say "you", I mean PvPer's in general.

 

I suppose I mean that in two parts....

 

Firstly, as a PvPer were you (as a demographic) looking to KotFE and yelling for all to hear "BIOWARE... WE REALLY WANT A NEW COMPANION!!!!!". Or is it more the case that having been offered a "nod to PvP" from the developers, that when it's a choice between that and nothing... we'll vigorously defend "that"?

 

Secondly, is it your "Killer" aspect (from the Bartle classifications) that really wants a companion? Or is it that the individual is someone who might also score highly in one of the other classifications? I suspect the latter - and as such, I would hope that "companions as a reward" would be given to people who completed tasks better aimed at those other classifications.

 

I can see the point of companions for Achievers. Even Socializers to an extent. But not Explorers and not Killers. And yes, I recognise that there are always overlaps within real people - but that's where the availability of choice is so important when choosing how to spend their time. There's a reason why there were no PvP related datacrons - but why (some) PvP players still collected them all anyway. It's good design.

 

[This line intentionally left blank]

Edited October 30, 2015 by Woetoo

[Leklor]

*snip*

 

The good thing is, we could talk like that and make no progress because you conveniently ignored half of my points.

Among people that are taking issue with the quest, there are of course the anti-PvP crowd.

But there is also those who think (Like I do) that the quest should remain but at the same time receive serious tweaks, even if it's to remain a PvP only quest.

Concerns expressed range from the quest pushing people into PvP with the wrong incentive, to the quest not accomplishing the (supposed) objective of introducing PvP (Due to it's length, it's structure,...) or the fact that it (And several other companions from the Alliance system) could strongly benefit from a Legacy bypass/shortening once some specific conditions have been met.

Those are the points you conveniently ignored.

Yes, granted, some here have only been campaigning for the removal of PvP because they don't like it.

But others, that you systematically ignore, misquote or sometime even outright twist their word have expressed completely valid concerns and offered solutions that could make the quest better (Once again, I'm not talking about a PvE alternative).

[JDiablos]

This argument assumes that there are 2 distinct types of players. The way I view the game is that everyone is a SWTOR player. Whether you primarily focus on PvE or PvP, SWTOR has both playstyles incorporated into it, but primarily it has always focused on the player's story. There are some PvPers who are literally only here for PvP, but that is an extreme minority (believe me, I know most of them well). But players who participate in PvP at least occassionally are a majority or at least evenly split with the rest of the population.

 

Incorporating all playstyles into the main focus of the game (the main story) seems to be a smart move imo. It rewards players for playing the way they want to play without forcing them into content to actually progress through the main story. Completionists in a game that has FPs, Ops, strongholds, GSF, PvP, world bosses, dailies, crafting, etc. are going to have to be willing to take part in all aspects of the game to get everything.

 

There's a lot of truth to that, which is why I've been a proponent of the status quo. Those who PvP don't strictly PvP, they are also very intermarried with those who do end game Ops. Of course everyone participates in the story at least once, even the PvP folk. But there's no denying that certain members of the playerbase identify PvP as their home, their endgame as it were. And as such there have ever been titles and mounts and achievements that could only be gained through PvP. That's a good thing.

 

The reason I would be willing to see a compromise made is that Forex and Pierce both originate from the story itself (There is no place of more casual PvE than that) so to suddenly gate those two companions that many who don't PvP have grown accustomed to and appreciate behind a PvP barrier might seem jarring to some. I'm sure there's many a player who looked at this expansion and said "Wow, I can't wait to get Pierce on my Imperial Agent. What a great enforcer he'll make to my Mission Impossible team." And then when the time came they were like "PvP? What the Hell?"

 

So we're taking known quantities who have a lot of story behind them. Who are already closely linked with being companions to people who only focus on that aspect of the game, and shutting them off into some dark corner of the universe a lot of those same players don't go. That's why players see it as unfair.

 

On the flip we can't just take away the only carrot for PvP play that is in this expansion. There has to be some value to PvP, some measure of reward or gated content. And with the new alliance system it only makes sense that there be some companions that can only be earned via PvP. If that is Forex and Pierce so be it, but if there could be a different companion that more of the playerbase could agree was fair I think that would be a worthwhile compromise for Bioware to work on.

[Leklor]

*snip*

 

I wouldn't know, really.

I'm not a PvPer, I'm a story player who made the effort of losing 20 Warzones to actually have a little legitimacy when discussing here and complaining about the current structure of the quest!

[Master-Nala]

The good thing is, we could talk like that and make no progress because you conveniently ignored half of my points.

 

Again, because they all boil down to there being a problem to solve. I don't agree with that. And I also think you ignore that part of my argument because you believe it is self-evident that there is a problem. Every 'problem' you've suggested can be easily remedied by either:

 

1) Completing the quest. By that I mean actually try, not just suffer through it because you want the reward;

 

2) Forego the reward. This is important, because until you can demonstrate the need for this companion, this is perfectly acceptable solution. But this is the solution you refuse to even consider. Why? Why is simply not having the companion not acceptable?

 

I love Jaesa Wilsaam (sp). But if they asked me to do even 1 HM operation, I would just say, "Oh well, not getting that companion." And that would be the end of that.

 

So here's why we're at loggerheads. You have identified a "problem" which I believe does not exist. To the extent there is a problem it is with folks obsessive need to collect thing.

[Master-Nala]

A fair compromise is one I think Leklor (?) proposed which would be an entirely new companion that could be earned via PvP. And that same companion would only be earned by achievement and not participation. This would validate the PvP playstyle by gating something cool and exclusive behind it. It would also eliminate the status quo where Sith Warriors and Troopers can bypass the PvP element for the current companions. Obviously it would have to be a desirable and possibly even iconic companion and it would have to require a decently high proficiency in PvP before it would qualify as suitable reward.

 

What if those companions were Satele Shan/Darth Malgus (let's assume he survived the False Emperor FP)?

 

Do you really think we wouldn't have the same complaints from the same people?

[JDiablos]

 

I can see the point of companions for Achievers. Even Socializers to an extent. But not Explorers and not Killers. And yes, I recognise that there are always overlaps within real people - but that's where the availability of choice is so important when choosing how to spend their time. There's a reason why there were no PvP related datacrons - but why (some) PvP players still collected them all anyway. It's good design.

 

[This line intentionally left blank]

 

Even in your Bartle test the example was

 

100% killer

50% socializer

40% achiever

10% explorer

 

So given that no single category can exceed 100% it would seem to back up the point that no person plays the game for one reason alone. It certainly seems possible that while Killers play the game for PvP they also appreciate the idea of socializing with their peers and showing off their achievements.

 

For the Achiever the actual achievement doesn't matter as much as how difficult it was to achieve it and how desirable it is seen in the socializer aspect. Since companions are obviously seen as desirable (see half the threads on this board and all of them of any length) it would make sense that making them part of the achievement would be optimal. Mounts are a carrot in many games because one can show off mounts, in this game companions serve a similar purpose but much more so because of how closely players associate with them.

 

Giving Killers the opportunity to earn companions via achievement and then show them off via socializer seems very much a core part of the Bartle test paradigm. So to say companions themselves would be undesirable to Killers would I think ignore much of what the study seemed to be saying.

 

TL;DR Companions are a great reward for PvP.

Edited October 30, 2015 by JDiablos

[Zanriel]

99% of this game is behiond a "pve wall"

 

pvpers get one thing and *SKY IS FALLING*

 

I'm not a PVP'er, in fact I feel the same way about it as the OP. However, as a compassionate person, this is exactly the way I see the issue. It gives PVP'ers something to work towards and I think that's a good thing.

[Leklor]

*snip*

 

You did it again, I see.

You seem to think the issue I keep bringing up is the fact that PvP is required for these companions.

It's not.

If you had bothered to read my previous post entirely, you would maybe have noticed that more and more complains are now emanating from people who have finished the quest and believe there are adjustements that could be made to make it more enjoyable, more rewarding and so on.

As long as you'll be convinced that the problem that annoy people is strictly the PvP gate, the discussion is not going to make any progress.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Leklor

[Yaevinn]

For the millionth time to the millionth thread about this, it's not a big deal. Go que for some WZs and get your companion. I don't like pve, yet I'm forced to do do pve for 90% of this game. Do you see me complaining?

 

For once they threw us papers a bone and made a companion rewarded through pvp (better than nothing), don't take it away from us. Side note, you gain affection for them through pvp as well, so I don't have to waste money of gifts.

 

For the millionth time that is the dumbest argument I've heard, especially for a story driven MMO. You are probably playing completely wrong game, if you dislike PVE so much. They've added PVP requirements to PVE related things in past MMOs, for example Legendary cloak in past World of Warcraft expansion, where having the cloak was pretty much mandatory. People who absolutely hated and were bad at PVP were forced to PVP. It only lead to both parties being even more infuriated during matches.

 

It has been done before and it doesn't work. I've managed to do 7 out of my 20 WZs so far, each time I queue in it is a flame war in the comment section. People calling each other names or complaining about "OP healers". I want my PVE companion, but doing PVP to get it makes no sense. Besides the PVP in this game isn't very good to begin with. It rarely is in MMOs.

[Cawyden]

The problem is that you cannot tell Pierce or MX that you don't want them. You have the quest open and if you abandon it, the alert is back and maybe hiding other alerts that will come in the future. So you have to leave the quest open which is not nice, especially if they decide to take this route for other companions as wells - and we can only have 25 quests active. This is the real issue for me.

[JDiablos]

What if those companions were Satele Shan/Darth Malgus (let's assume he survived the False Emperor FP)?

 

Do you really think we wouldn't have the same complaints from the same people?

 

There would be the same complaints times 1000 probably.

 

For better or worse though with Forex and Pierce there is a mental association for the player that when you think of them you think companion. Also for most players there isn't a dissociation between their various characters. Meaning most people don't think of their Sith Warrior and their Sith Inquisitor as different entities. So when a companion like Pierce becomes available it's difficult for some to see the difference between why he wouldn't be theirs on both characters. The idea of 20 warzones seems daunting and unfair to get back someone they've already gotten affection to 10000 (on a different character granted but it was still them that did it).

 

So from that perspective I think there'd be less of a mental connection to the idea that they've already earned these companions. There would still be complaints from people who don't PvP, but there have ever been complaints about the cool mounts or titles that are associated with endgame PvP or PvE, there's no reason companions can't be any different or that people wouldn't grow to accept this requirement.

 

Maybe start em on something smaller though eh? Not just dive head first on Malgus/Shan. Maybe start with a fairly well liked character from one of the planetary story lines.

Edited October 30, 2015 by JDiablos

[TurtlesAWD]

If I was being required to pvp for something and if I knew I could jump into that content without a ton of preparation needing to be done to be usefull at all let alone to have fun, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

Issue is, pvp grinding isn't fun and when I'm on a character that I know will have low expertise it turns into a ride on the struggle bus every time. For me and my team, as I will be dragging them all down with me.