How is the story so far?

[Codedrago]

Story and characters are good, but it's far too rushed. You're barely given time to think about any plot development or character before you're whisked off to the next event. The ending and current present of KOTFE after completion of the story is interesting, but there's no sense of earning it.

 

KOTFE isn't bad at all, but the pacing is awful.

 

I thought the pacing was pretty fantastic, no filler and the character development was given a good amount of time

[Sandreid]

Valkorion actually did tell something about Arcann. Valkie said "You dont have ambition, only jealousy". Arcann wanted his fathers approval so bad, he got into a point of trying to murder his father when he didn't get it (killed his brother instead). Im not sure of all the other options available during chapter 1, but Arcann wanted the throne BAD, and now he wants to eradicate all memory of his father and his "favorites" that were placed above him, ie. the outlander. Arcann envies the outlander for Valkorions attention.

 

Sure, but it's so quickly glanced over that it seems to not matter at all or be important. Why does he want the throne? Why? This is a big issue because apparently that's the only thing he desires. But why? I'd think he would hate the throne since his father ignored him all his life.

 

My own theory is that what you see in the trailer, is that Arcann gets more and more frustrated over the years from being ignored, that he finally snaps at the end trying to kill Valkorion, and in that moment where his brother dies, Valkorion finally accept him as his son and successor. It was all just a "test" by Valkorion because I wanted ONE successor. Which ever son would make it, would be acknowledged.

But then again, that makes just about as much sense as anything else in this story: No sense what so ever.

 

Vaylin does seem like a stereotype, but I dont mind it, as I like all classic Sith stuff myself.

 

She does. But then I love to ask: Why bother pulling a third faction out of your *** if they are gonna act like Sith anyway? Why not just have Vaylin, Arcann and Valkorion BE Sith? Why do we have an Eternal Empire? It makes no sense, and it doesn't fit with the Sith Emperor's Masterplan, nor the timeline. Nothing matches anything. For me, it all just feels cheap and kinda shoe-horned in to make some plottwists to shock the player. But if it doesn't make any sense, then it doesn't work!

 

Also, why isn't Vaylin shown in the trailer? That also feels cheap. It feels like the fact the Valkorion suddenly have a daughter is somehow suppose to be a twist itself. Why isn't she shown? Why was she kept secret? Why? Whyyy? WHY!??? This is stupid!

 

This entire story just kinda feels like a bad M. Night Shyamalan movie, with stupid plottwists, that makes no sense.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Sandreid

[Swissbob]

She does. But then I love to ask: Why bother pulling a third faction out of your *** if they are gonna act like Sith anyway? Why not just have Vaylin, Arcann and Valkorion BE Sith? Why do we have an Eternal Empire? It makes no sense, and it doesn't fit with the Sith Emperor's Masterplan, nor the timeline. Nothing matches anything. For me, it all just feels cheap and kinda shoe-horned in to make some plottwists to shock the player. But if it doesn't make any sense it doesn't work...

 

You've really hit the crux of the problem here, I think.

 

If this story was simply a climax with the game long running Vitiate conflict (why rename/reboot him to Valkorion?), and the "Eternal Empire" was an alternate, secret powerbase that he choose to unleash now as either a last ditch effort or culmination of a long running plan, and we didn't jump forward 5 years and have our character's and the game as a whole's entire history get mostly erased, rather it's either each faction working against it on their own (eg RotHC) or both come together (eg SoR), or even Bioware's "you and your band of friends are the galaxy's only hope," (perhaps because the other two factions are too busy fighiting each other to see the threat) it would be awesome and engaging because it would feel like a climax to everything the game has been about for the past few years.

 

And that's really the problem. Rather than a culmination and convergence of all story plots thus far in an epic climax, we get a lame reboot that destroys most everything the game has created in favor of a generic, random, and all too uninteresting "Eternal Empire."

 

It makes me so sad.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Swissbob

[Deakon]

In the main story? Who? Lana? no. Koth? no. HK? no. Senya? no. Theron? no. NO ONE! what companions are you talking about? I couldn't even kill Lana when i tried to, by not asking for the emperor's help in ch 4 or whatever.

 

Well I'd imagine you can't make a game with a manageable story arc if you were able to kill off every character you wanted. It would be similar to not rescuing Hon Solo from his carbonite prison because you wanted the option. Or just letting Luke Skywalker chill out hanging from the bottom of Bespin because I wanted the option to not save him.

 

Bioware - a typically story oriented developer by the way - can't offer us a story (or at least not withing an acceptable time frame) if they had to account for every choice a player wanted. Instead they give enough choices (for most of us anyways), that are manageable from a game developer perspective. It'd be nonsensical to create entire story arcs for characters that may be dead in other peoples playthroughs.

 

It's the nature of the beast, and in my opinion Bioware is unfairly criticized on it in every game it's created.

 

But more to the point, there are companions you can kill so yeah... All your arguments are moot because you can't do simple research.

 

 

Xalek and Tano Vik. With surely more to come as influence rises within the Alliance.

 

 

The only (albeit unfair) criticism I have for this expansion stems from what I mention above. Every character you are allowed to kill off in this game in essence means that they will have no meaningful impact in this current expansion or future ones.

 

 

So hopefully more agent companions are integral to the story line! Scorpio and Kaliyo ftw.

 

[Bobbyrab]

You've really hit the crux of the problem here, I think.

 

 

And that's really the problem. Rather than a culmination and convergence of all story plots thus far in an epic climax, we get a lame reboot that destroys most everything the game has created in favor of a generic, random, and all too uninteresting "Eternal Empire."

 

 

I agree with this quite a bit. It's like rather than iron out the complexities around the story you've told so far and keep it going (I'd argue with a strong enough vision you could get 5+ expansions out of a Repub/Sith Cold War or all-out War), somebody just decided to hit the reset button and go OT.

[Deakon]

You've really hit the crux of the problem, I think.

 

If this story was simply a climax with the game long running Vitiate conflict (why rename/reboot him to Valkorion?), and the "Eternal Empire" was an alternate Empire that he choose to unleash now as either a last ditch effort or culmination of a long running plan, and we didn't jump forward 5 years and have our character's and the game as a whole's entire history get mostly erased, rather it's either each faction working against it on their own (ala RotHC) or both come together (ala SoR), or even Bioware's "you and your band of friends are the galaxy's only hope," (perhaps because the other two factions are too busy fighiting each other to see the threat) it would be awesome and engaging because it would feel like a climax to everything the game has been about for the past few years.

 

And that's really the problem. Rather than a culmination and convergence of all story plots thus far in an epic climax, we get a lame reboot that destroys most everything the game has created in favor of a generic, random, and all too uninteresting "Eternal Empire."

 

It makes me so sad.

 

I... I can understand your opinion however I think there are elements you are perhaps not considering.

 

First off, I believe you contradict yourself at one point although this may have been unintentional. You ask for a classic

"you and your band of friends are the galaxy's only hope," (perhaps because the other two factions are too busy fighiting each other to see the threat)"

and that is almost exactly what is delivered. The Empire and Republic

are both still obsessed with the destruction each (via Saresh and the new Empress)

and its up to your band of misfits and malcontents to make a difference each factions respective leaders are incapable and perhaps even unwilling to make.

 

Second, the actual name of Vitiate doesn't matter (and my agent can attest to this). Whether Valkorion is his 'real' name or not is irrelevant. It's hardly realistic to expect a grand schemer like the Emperor to make a mistake like committing heinous atrocities like

whatever he did with Ziost [/sPOiLER] and using the same name? The citizens of Zakuul would be much more likely to believe the story of their own Emperor being a monster if a guy with the exact same name was performing those deeds elsewhere.

 

Third, Valkorion is seemingly invincible. I mean the guy

ate a @$!*@ing planet

without actually being there. We also

Shived or shot him through the spine

and he just laughed it off... Literally. Before this expansion the Emperor was the classic 'ultimate' villain, yet decidedly one dimensional and altogether unoriginal. Now that doesn't mean he wasn't a good villain, but everything he did really didn't need justification. It really boiled down to this:

Galaxy: "Hey Vitiate, why so mad?"

Vitiate: "Well, reasons you can't comprehend."

Galaxy: "OK."

And this is really driven home during the Ziost storyline, where we were led to believe we were making progress... And then he well... He goes and gently reminds us otherwise.

 

With KotFE, his character now has... character. He has a story, an actual past that includes

a family, and altogether humanizing elements.

The villain which we realistically had no way of defeating may now not need defeating. The guy is all of the sudden understanding, and while still a little bit crazy has basically assumed the role of a curious spectator with the best seat.

 

Also, I do understand it when you say it seems like our choices were erased with this 'reboot'... But it isn't really the case. Most of them just don't apply to this specific scenario. Realistically, the entire galactic conflict was resume development for the Outlander title. People are only willing to follow our characters because of what we achieved in previous content, and because my agent is charming and deadly. BUT, very few of those achievements had little to do with the Eternal Empire. The various planetary conflicts, the Dread Masters, Kephess, Kephess, and Kephess prepared us, and not the galaxy for the threat of the Eternal Empire. Only securing Isotope-5 really had any real affect in the conflict with the Eternal Empire.

 

The main problem lies with the fact that we were benched for the 5 years in which the Eternal Empire undid all our hard work. It pisses me off to be honest. My beloved Empire is now a farce, and I was pretty much sleeping while it happened. But realistically, had this expansion focused on us fighting a 'new and deadly threat' I would have enjoyed it far less and I suspect you would have as well. The Eternal Empire would have just been a re-skinned Revanite flunky, which were just a re-skinned Dread-Master flunky. By setting our super-overpowered characters aside for 5 years, a threat was able to emerge and actually achieve something. Now we have to deal with more than just a new threat, but a changed galaxy essentially foreign to the one we left behind.

 

And I personally love this fresh setting that leaves me almost maddeningly curious as to how my companions have fared. Additionally, I'm eager to see how the Republic/Sith conflict reignites (which it better).

 

A side note to my already unintentionally massive reply:

 

Yes Vailyn seems and acts like a typical crazy sith, but I feel she has an element to her that sets her apart. While it is not entirely apparent at the moment, conversations with other characters have alluded to some moment which 'broke/changed' her. That and the fact that

she is Valkorion daughter and that her mother is one of your companions have the potential to create some truly memorable encounters.

 

 

And in response to the OP:

 

I believe the story is fantastic, and it has taken me almost 18 hours to get through the main story portion of it (that does however include the innumerable times I've pressed escape to restart conversations and times I stared at my screen slack-jawed at plot twists).

 

My favorite part of it's entirety is the COMPLETE LACK GENERIC KILL/FETCH QUESTS for the first 8 chapters. That alone is just... is just so ... wonderful. Had DAI done that... Man.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Deakon

[Abvora]

I... I can understand your opinion however I think there are elements you are perhaps not considering.

 

First off, I believe you contradict yourself at one point although this may have been unintentional. You ask for a classic and that is almost exactly what is delivered. The Empire and Republic

are both still obsessed with the destruction each (via Saresh and the new Empress)

and its up to your band of misfits and malcontents to make a difference each factions respective leaders are incapable and perhaps even unwilling to make.

 

Second, the actual name of Vitiate doesn't matter (and my agent can attest to this). Whether Valkorion is his 'real' name or not is irrelevant. It's hardly realistic to expect a grand schemer like the Emperor to make a mistake like committing heinous atrocities like

whatever he did with Ziost [/sPOiLER] and using the same name? The citizens of Zakuul would be much more likely to believe the story of their own Emperor being a monster if a guy with the exact same name was performing those deeds elsewhere.

 

Third, Valkorion is seemingly invincible. I mean the guy

ate a @$!*@ing planet

without actually being there. We also

Shived or shot him through the spine

and he just laughed it off... Literally. Before this expansion the Emperor was the classic 'ultimate' villain, yet decidedly one dimensional and altogether unoriginal. Now that doesn't mean he wasn't a good villain, but everything he did really didn't need justification. It really boiled down to this:

Galaxy: "Hey Vitiate, why so mad?"

Vitiate: "Well, reasons you can't comprehend."

Galaxy: "OK."

And this is really driven home during the Ziost storyline, where we were led to believe we were making progress... And then he well... He goes and gently reminds us otherwise.

 

With KotFE, his character now has... character. He has a story, an actual past that includes

a family, and altogether humanizing elements.

The villain which we realistically had no way of defeating may now not need defeating. The guy is all of the sudden understanding, and while still a little bit crazy has basically assumed the role of a curious spectator with the best seat.

 

Also, I do understand it when you say it seems like our choices were erased with this 'reboot'... But it isn't really the case. Most of them just don't apply to this specific scenario. Realistically, the entire galactic conflict was resume development for the Outlander title. People are only willing to follow our characters because of what we achieved in previous content, and because my agent is charming and deadly. BUT, very few of those achievements had little to do with the Eternal Empire. The various planetary conflicts, the Dread Masters, Kephess, Kephess, and Kephess prepared us, and not the galaxy for the threat of the Eternal Empire. Only securing Isotope-5 really had any real affect in the conflict with the Eternal Empire.

 

The main problem lies with the fact that we were benched for the 5 years in which the Eternal Empire undid all our hard work. It pisses me off to be honest. My beloved Empire is now a farce, and I was pretty much sleeping while it happened. But realistically, had this expansion focused on us fighting a 'new and deadly threat' I would have enjoyed it far less and I suspect you would have as well. The Eternal Empire would have just been a re-skinned Revanite flunky, which were just a re-skinned Dread-Master flunky. By setting our super-overpowered characters aside for 5 years, a threat was able to emerge and actually achieve something. Now we have to deal with more than just a new threat, but a changed galaxy essentially foreign to the one we left behind.

 

And I personally love this fresh setting that leaves me almost maddeningly curious as to how my companions have fared. Additionally, I'm eager to see how the Republic/Sith conflict reignites (which it better).

 

A side note to my already unintentionally massive reply:

 

Yes Vailyn seems and acts like a typical crazy sith, but I feel she has an element to her that sets her apart. While it is not entirely apparent at the moment, conversations with other characters have alluded to some moment which 'broke/changed' her. That and the fact that

she is Valkorion daughter and that her mother is one of your companions have the potential to create some truly memorable encounters.

 

 

And in response to the OP:

 

I believe the story is fantastic, and it has taken me almost 18 hours to get through the main story portion of it (that does however include the innumerable times I've pressed escape to restart conversations and times I stared at my screen slack-jawed at plot twists).

 

My favorite part of it's entirety is the COMPLETE LACK GENERIC KILL/FETCH QUESTS for the first 8 chapters. That alone is just... is just so ... wonderful. Had DAI done that... Man.

 

*applauds*

 

This echoes pretty much every happy thought I have had about this expansion.

[Karkais]

Sure, but it's so quickly glanced over that it seems to not matter at all or be important. Why does he want the throne? Why? This is a big issue because apparently that's the only thing he desires. But why? I'd think he would hate the throne since his father ignored him all his life.

Why? Perhaps its because he was prepared for the throne since childbirth? Or at least thats what he thinks. I assume Valkorion was the immortal emperor for the entire duration of Thexan's and Arcann's childhood. Thats what all the teaser trailers and the main trailer of KOTFE are about, imo. The brothers are shown to be children when they begin their training. As they grow up, they do everything for Valk, and he turns away. Why? Apparently cause his attention was focused on the outlander. "During all my centuries, only you have merited my full attention". Now if you spend ~20ish years or however old Arcy is, in the shadow of someone else, while you are expected to perform the impossible, giving away your arm and eye and maybe something else for it, and get nothing in return, that might do something to your psyche. Thats how I see it.

 

Also theres something I only realized recently. The reason why it works better with Arcann and Vaylin so one-dimensional: I think thats the reason why Valkorion does choose the outlander as his 'ward' so to speak. Because his children were unable to rise above the petty jealousy and hunger for power. He expects more from his .... I dont know what exactly, lol. I was going to say 'successor', the one he leaves his legacy? That makes no sense, does it?

 

This entire story just kinda feels like a bad M. Night Shyamalan movie, with stupid plottwists, that makes no sense.

Its definitely not bad, even though it does leave a lot of questions. I believe thats to keep us interested in further chapters.

 

The biggest plot-hole and twist however, still remains the paradigm shift between Vitiate of SoR and Valkorion of KOTFE. Why are they so different? The reason seems to be simply because Valkorion is a much much better and deeper character in terms of the story than Vitiates single-minded "I want to eat the galaxy om nom nom" villain was, and we get the transition with a lot of handwaving and carbonite-freezing and hopefully everyone forgets that SoR happened (I sure hope it would never have happened)

Edited October 23, 2015 by Karkais

[Karkais]

...

I believe the story is fantastic, and it has taken me almost 18 hours to get through the main story portion of it (that does however include the innumerable times I've pressed escape to restart conversations and times I stared at my screen slack-jawed at plot twists).

 

My favorite part of it's entirety is the COMPLETE LACK GENERIC KILL/FETCH QUESTS for the first 8 chapters. That alone is just... is just so ... wonderful. Had DAI done that... Man.

 

Thank you for this write-up. Very insightful! I agree with a lot of it.

 

The main problem lies with the fact that we were benched for the 5 years in which the Eternal Empire undid all our hard work. It pisses me off to be honest. My beloved Empire is now a farce, and I was pretty much sleeping while it happened. But realistically, had this expansion focused on us fighting a 'new and deadly threat' I would have enjoyed it far less and I suspect you would have as well. The Eternal Empire would have just been a re-skinned Revanite flunky, which were just a re-skinned Dread-Master flunky. By setting our super-overpowered characters aside for 5 years, a threat was able to emerge and actually achieve something. Now we have to deal with more than just a new threat, but a changed galaxy essentially foreign to the one we left behind.

 

And I personally love this fresh setting that leaves me almost maddeningly curious as to how my companions have fared. Additionally, I'm eager to see how the Republic/Sith conflict reignites (which it better).

 

While the 5-year forced break may seem like annoying to fhose who wanted to see what happened in the war between empire and republic, it seems like the only practical way to continue story at this point. Why? Because all of our PC's would have had to encounter each other eventually otherwise! There needed to be this buffer. Sure, the reset is a reset and it all serves the "one story, all classes" principle, but I still think SWTOR is more on the right track now compared to SoR.

 

I also realized something this evening. I get this strange feeling that Bioware was actually reading my complaints during the launch of SoR. I complained that my Wrath never got to actually 'serve' the emperor, despite being the one person designated for the job in the entire game. Then came along SoR, where all dialog options went along the lines of "Vitiate must be stopped". I thoroughly hated the ham-fisted way of forcing every PC to oppose Vitiate.

 

Now in KOTFE, what options do you get? You can kneel to Valkorion. You can actually choose to bend the knee and serve him. Even though it was not an option I ended up taking (thanks to the disastrous SoR messing up my head), I must applaud Bioware for actually giving us that option.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Karkais

[Sandreid]

Well I'd imagine you can't make a game with a manageable story arc if you were able to kill off every character you wanted. It would be similar to not rescuing Hon Solo from his carbonite prison because you wanted the option. Or just letting Luke Skywalker chill out hanging from the bottom of Bespin because I wanted the option to not save him.

 

Bioware - a typically story oriented developer by the way - can't offer us a story (or at least not withing an acceptable time frame) if they had to account for every choice a player wanted. Instead they give enough choices (for most of us anyways), that are manageable from a game developer perspective. It'd be nonsensical to create entire story arcs for characters that may be dead in other peoples playthroughs.

 

It's the nature of the beast, and in my opinion Bioware is unfairly criticized on it in every game it's created.

 

But more to the point, there are companions you can kill so yeah... All your arguments are moot because you can't do simple research.

 

 

Xalek and Tano Vik. With surely more to come as influence rises within the Alliance.

 

 

The only (albeit unfair) criticism I have for this expansion stems from what I mention above. Every character you are allowed to kill off in this game in essence means that they will have no meaningful impact in this current expansion or future ones.

 

 

So hopefully more agent companions are integral to the story line! Scorpio and Kaliyo ftw.

 

You're talking about Xalek? REALLY? You can also imprison him, did you know that? Does this have any impact later on? No. Will I meet him again? No. Will it ever be mentioned again? No. Great! Simply amazing!

 

I'm talking about storyline companinions aka "main characters" and "other followers". Who cares about the Alliance followers aka "Alliance recruits" who are basically just puppets who stand afk in your alliance camp? You can't even take them with you! They are NOT traditional companions like Mako, Jaesa, or even 2V-R8. They are pointless. So yeah, my point still stands.

 

And for the record, I've played every single BioWare game and enjoy more of them. But what they told us was that this expansion was gonna have REAL consequences. LONG TERM consequences, and so far, I've seen NOTHING like that. NOTHING!.

 

And don't give me that whole "most of us are fine with the story"-bs. Most people haven't even seen the story yet, and plenty of the feedback is negative. I'd actually guess that roughly half of what I've seen has been negative. HALF. That's NOT a good procentage.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Sandreid

[Adelaine]

Just some more thoughts and I'm no Star Wars expert but the Eternal Empire as a society makes no sense to me when compared to the rest of the lore. Unlike every other force user sect we seen in the game the Knights of Zakuul seems to be able to just use the force as a tool with no downsides and even when they cut down people mercilessly none of them. except for the Emperor's children seem to struggle with their emotions or the dark side.

 

Voss society in this way made a lot more sense since the entire culture was alien/differnet from our own and Voss Mystics used the force in a limited capacity, mostly for visions. Zakuul however seems to have managed a sort of unity that doesn't make sense consider their high tecnology/culture and leader. Even if the Emperor was able to hide his nature from those around him I don't think a force tradition built only on justice would work in the long run.

 

The Scions at least seems to have some ideas on their own but the knights are basically just common soldiers with the force. Why do they continue to serve when Arcann is almost openly acting like a madman and Vaylin basically kill her own people at random?

[Swissbob]

I... I can understand your opinion however I think there are elements you are perhaps not considering.

 

First off, I believe you contradict yourself at one point although this may have been unintentional. You ask for a classic [band of misfits] and that is almost exactly what is delivered. The Empire and Republic

are both still obsessed with the destruction each (via Saresh and the new Empress)

and its up to your band of misfits and malcontents to make a difference each factions respective leaders are incapable and perhaps even unwilling to make.

 

No no no I know that was exactly what was delivered. What I was saying was not that they should've done it that way but didn't, rather I was saying that if they wanted to do it that way (and evidently they did want to to, because that's what they did) it could potentially work. Basically what I was saying was that the band of misfits was not what I had a problem with, and could have worked in my proposed story.

 

Second, the actual name of Vitiate doesn't matter (and my agent can attest to this). Whether Valkorion is his 'real' name or not is irrelevant. It's hardly realistic to expect a grand schemer like the Emperor to make a mistake like committing heinous atrocities like

whatever he did with Ziost [/sPOiLER] and using the same name? The citizens of Zakuul would be much more likely to believe the story of their own Emperor being a monster if a guy with the exact same name was performing those deeds elsewhere.

 

 

Well yeah, fair enough, though the literal RENAMING of Vitiate isn't really all that big a deal. It's more the rebooting aspect that I took a problem with, and I'll get to that in a bit.

 

Before this expansion the Emperor was the classic 'ultimate' villain, yet decidedly one dimensional and altogether unoriginal. Now that doesn't mean he wasn't a good villain, but everything he did really didn't need justification. It really boiled down to this:

Galaxy: "Hey Vitiate, why so mad?"

Vitiate: "Well, reasons you can't comprehend."

Galaxy: "OK."

And this is really driven home during the Ziost storyline, where we were led to believe we were making progress... And then he well... He goes and gently reminds us otherwise.

 

I agree with your basic premise here. Yes, the Emperor wasn't an emotional complex character. That said, that doesn't make him a bad character (as you said) as this is Star Wars, not, for instance, Game of Thrones.

 

While emotionally complex villains are certainly a plus, look at the original Star Wars movies. Emperor/Chancellor Palpatine was essentially just a pure evil mastermind whose emotional backstory we were never told, and yet that was perfect for his place in the movies: he presented a galaxy wide threat which served to make the more emotionally complex characters (Luke, Darth Vader, Leia, etc.) go through their trials and tribulations and grow as characters. So too in SWTOR: Vitiate is the big bad villain that our characters and their respective factions (Republic and Empire) have battled against for a long while! This struggle has been going on for a long time, thus we have invested time and energy into it! We want to see it resolve! We want to see the Empire and Republic defeat him once and for all, for instance.

 

Rebooting him into some new villain with a new faction and having him completely destroy the Empire and Republic in the blink of an eye without us even involved in the fight is so terrible in my eyes because it erases all the importance of anything that happened before it. What the hell was the point of Vitiate drawing out this conflict between the Sith and the Jedi for literally centuries (going all the way back to KOTOR) when he had an invincible fleet in his back pocket that could take total and utter control of the Galaxy in a few years time...!?

 

It makes the entire plot of SWTOR (hell, even KOTOR!!) up to that point utterly pointless!! Every single thing anyone achieved for either the Empire or Republic completely meaningless, because those factions were doomed to be conquered incredibly quickly by a random and OP "Eternal Empire."

 

To use some of your words: Being benched for five years while everything is randomly seems to turn the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic, and the Empire into one big farce!

 

These factions have been fighting ruthlessly in some form or another for ******* MILLENIA only to be casually defeated in a year or two by a galactic power that has been inexplicably hiding for who knows how long. It's like one big comedy.

 

Jedi? Sith? The Light and Dark Side of the Force? You know, STAR WARS at it's very core? They've all become powerless and irrelevant.

 

Bear with me, as I use an analogy. Let's say this happened in Lord of the Rings. You've watched Frodo grow and change through his long and arduous journey, and he is on the verge of destroying the ring at Mount Doom, all the while a cast of memorable characters (Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, etc.) and the men of the west fight valiantly against the evil forces of Sauron. Suddenly, Frodo (and by extension the audience) enters a coma, only to wake up 5 years later to find an army of invincible Valkyrie have invaded Middle Earth, defeated Rohan, Gondor, the Dwarves, the Elves, and Sauron and his horde of minions to establish a new Empire. It would kind of defeat the purpose of Frodo's quest, and therefore the Lord of the Rings Books themselves.

 

This is what I feel just happened. Everything is conquered after literally millennia of interesting stories. What was the point of any of it? Why the hell was the Infinite Fleet and Valkorion waiting? If Vitiate is really Valkorion, then Valkorion has been alive for over a millenia, and his centuries of contest with the Jedi has been made comically irrelevant, as he could have conquered them within a year or two with the Infinite Fleet (which btw... how the hell did he acquire this without anyone knowing?)

 

 

Realistically, the entire galactic conflict was resume development for the Outlander title. [...] BUT, very few of those achievements had little to do with the Eternal Empire. The various planetary conflicts, the Dread Masters, Kephess, Kephess, and Kephess prepared us, and not the galaxy for the threat of the Eternal Empire

 

This is precisely the problem in my eyes. None of it matters in the grand scheme of things. Kephess could've won, the Dread Masters could have won, Revan could have won, the Hutts could have won.. Ultimately, any of them would have been steamrolled by Valkorion and his OP fleet, so what the hell was the point of any of the plots of the game up to this point at all?

 

Anyway... you said it best.

 

It's a farce.

 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Swissbob

[Deakon]

You're talking about Xalek? REALLY? You can also imprison him, did you know that? Does this have any impact later on? No. Will I meet him again? No. Will it ever be mentioned again? No. Great! Simply amazing!

 

I'm talking about storyline companinions aka "main characters" and "other followers". Who cares about the Alliance followers aka "Alliance recruits" who are basically just puppets who stand afk in your alliance camp? You can't even take them with you! They are NOT traditional companions like Mako, Jaesa, or even 2V-R8. They are pointless. So yeah, my point still stands.

 

And for the record, I've played every single BioWare game and enjoy more of them. But what they told us was that this expansion was gonna have REAL consequences. LONG TERM consequences, and so far, I've seen NOTHING like that. NOTHING!.

 

And don't give me that whole "most of us are fine with the story"-bs. Most people haven't even seen the story yet, and plenty of the feedback is negative. I'd actually guess that roughly half of what I've seen has been negative. HALF. That's NOT a good procentage.

 

Ok...

 

Slightly and needlessly vitriolic post aside, I think it's prudent to remember that forums are not where people typically go to extol the virtues of a game... a point concretely reinforced by your response. 70% of users could be bashing an expansion on a forum, but that 70% is not reliably representative of the rest of player base. I will however make an educated guess this expansion was well received by the majority of early access players, as I have not seen (and I've looked) this apparent negative feedback which is so plentiful. Surprisingly there are very few forum topics regarding the new expansion, with most discussions having been created before the early access even started.

 

Regarding another one of your points...

Does imprisoning or killing Xalek does have an impact later on? Yes. He's gone, you've killed him. How does this impact the overall story afterwards? Unlike yourself who has a form of future sight and come somehow determine that there will be no LONG TERM consequences in an expansion that is in it's infancy, I couldn't tell you with a degree of certainty because I've only completed 9 of 18 chapters.

 

What I can tell you is that keeping him alive affects the story, by the simple fact that he is alive and able to have conversations. Is it meaningful? That is for the player to decide, but the life and death of a companion character you could have had since launch is... Well sort of a big deal.

 

I also have no idea what you mean by

They are NOT traditional companions like Mako, Jaesa, or even 2V-R8.

Tano Vik is a Trooper companion and Xalek is a Sith Inquisitor companion? They were available at launch, as in to say they were not just created for this expansion. If you knew that already, I apologize, that's how I interpreted what you were saying. If you didn't then well.. Now you know.

 

If Bioware did indeed promise that our choices will have 'real consequences', then they've already kept that promise. I let a certain someone take over twice now, and each time, the way my character was viewed by others changed rather dramatically. I basically let thousands of people die and directly murdered potentially thousands more, because I chose >2< dark side options. Lasting consequences of those actions? Well understandably some of the less cold-hearted amongst my crew hate my guts, and I'm sure as nerf **** not winning the hearts and minds of the local populace. While my choices haven't resulted in the life or death of crucial story characters (which isn't the definition of a meaningful decision), they have influenced how these characters interact with me, how the galaxy views me, and most importantly how I view my character going into the future.

[Deakon]

...

 

Interesting.

 

So what you really want, is an actual explanation as to why Valkorion was AFK'ing for so long with this invincible fleet. That is actually a good question... and I've got nothing for you on that which is concrete.

 

But I put forward the possibility that perhaps the Empire and Republic were both too strong at the time for even the Eternal fleet to win. I mean, the Empire was quite beastly at the time of it's resurgence, and the Republic was still massive. Perhaps he required the war to linger on, in order to allow Zakuul the opportunity to take over...

 

Perhaps he was disappointed with the result of the Sith Empire's return, and decided his Zakuul project was now his best chance. It depends heavily on when, but the Empire was a project of his at the time as well, and he (Vitiate) only started to withdraw after the Empire launched it's invasion.

 

Maybe he had given up on Zakuul as well when he was in the 'consume the known galaxy mood'. And after his 'change' on Ziost, he decided to put on the ol' Valkorion face again and give empire building another shot (because the Sith Empire didn't really want him back).

 

Conjecture I know, but there is so little concrete information any theory could technically be valid.

 

Hopefully Bioware will tell us in future chapters...

 

Regardless, the problem isn't the Eternal Fleet, it's the Emperor. He was the enabler of all these events, and he's so ridiculously powerful he realistically doesn't need the Eternal Fleet to enforce his will, he could just start nom nomming planets in a much more efficient manner than the silly Death Star ever could. At least they solved this problem in KOTFE... Sorta

 

Anyways, I'd wager a degree of faith needs to be placed in Bioware to make sense of that particular question.

 

But it honestly doesn't bother me to much, the same thing pretty much happened with the current Sith Empire in every way. It is just another aspect that requires suspension of disbelief.

[DAWUSS]

Just wait until Revan re-enters the picture... If that happens, we'll know SWTOR has cleared the shark.

 

 

As for consequences, I think it's too early to really tell, but I wouldn't be surprised if we continue to remain on the Railroad Express.

 

I don't exactly care for the retcon (OK, probably punchline more than retcon) of the Emperor (though I suppose a couple more punchlines could be in store [some have theorized that the Emperor has settled into the Outlander, for instance]) or the rehash that's basically the SWTOR prologue, where an outside faction comes from out of nowhere and reks a faction that more or less is still recovering from what turned out to be a proxy war. Maybe the Emperor is playing some 3-dimensional chess where the Eternal Empire is the next pawn to get sacrificed. While I don't care for the 5 year gap, I do like the fact that our characters still get whacked down every once in a while. I would have preferred that the war between the Republic and Empire rage on again (we really didn't get to experience that too much, especially post-Corellia).

 

 

Anyway, one thing this did do was verify a (fairly common) prediction of several years back (sorta) that the Galactic Republic and Sith Empire would eventually merge (explaining certain things about the Republic of the PT), though it was believed that that would have been how SWTOR would have concluded, not continued.

[SithKoriandr]

*LOTS OF STUFF*

 

By that reasoning, then everything we do is pointless and worthless because we know the Empire will destroy the Republic, who will become a rag tag fleet known as the Rebel Alliance who will then topple the Empire Regime.

 

And what have the characters accomplished? For someone like my Sith Inquisitor who thinks combining the Republic and Empire into one better society is a good idea, then, while the decimation of both is terrible, it's more likely to help both come together into one society now.

 

Which I thought may be the idea of this storyline. The Rep and Imp become one, which lasts for however long until someone in the new Republic decides it's time for a new form of government and secretly starts making plans for a new Empire!

[ArcharLord]

I enjoyed the story and the twists, but just like SoR and Hutt Cartel, it does not live up to the hype(imo). We were told that it would be character driven and choices would affect the story. I've played two characters through it so far and intentionally made completely different choices to test that theory. Guess what? EXACT same outcome regardless. EXACT same story. Again, it IS a good story, but just once I'd like to see some variations, either in class or at the very least in faction.

But, don't get me wrong, I LOVE this game and will probably still be playing it when I'm 80...lol

 

Just my two cents

 

 

Thanks for that input.... I'm only on chapter 7 and taking my time... But was wondering if choices matter if I leveled imperial toon thru... Wishbioware would get their act together... Jeeezzzz

[Swissbob]

By that reasoning, then everything we do is pointless and worthless because we know the Empire will destroy the Republic, who will become a rag tag fleet known as the Rebel Alliance who will then topple the Empire Regime.

 

Ehh... I don't buy it. Why? Because of time.

 

The difference being is that what you're talking about is millennia in the future. Our characters are long, long dead, so of course their accomplishments have faded in importance. In this expansion, our characters are very much alive, and in the prime of their importance, only to see their accomplishments, relationships, powerbases, and factions, and ultimately most everything they've been working towards obliterated instantly in front of their faces.

 

Using my Lord of the Rings analogy, if we knew Sauron returned 2 thousand years later, that doesn't mean Frodo's quest was pointless, as his destruction of Sauron lasted for 2 thousand years. However, if we see Sauron get defeated by a random army of Valkyrie before Frodo even finishes his quest, then it is all pointless because he didn't even enact much change at all.

 

Same thing here in SWTOR. We see our character's grow and change, and work towards a steady goal (the success of their faction most commonly), only to see it be erased randomly while they're in a coma just moments after it happened.

 

Put simply, a few thousand years of impact means a lot, but a year or two doesn't mean much at all.

 

 

And what have the characters accomplished? For someone like my Sith Inquisitor who thinks combining the Republic and Empire into one better society is a good idea, then, while the decimation of both is terrible, it's more likely to help both come together into one society now.

 

Well, I guess I'm envious that your character fits into the story well then, unlike mine.

 

l mean, I could certainly invent a character now for who this plot fits neatly into a bow, but that's not who my characters have been for the years I've played this game. For most of them (Freelancers like Smuggler and Bounty Hunter potentially being exceptions) the Eternal Empire conquering the entire galaxy destroys everything they believe in and accomplished.

 

As to what they accomplished? Well, that's a long list and involves spoilers for every major plot line, but some highlights, spoilers abound:

-Presumably killing the Sith Emperor (except, apparently not)

-Prevented the total destruction of several planets, and perhaps the galaxy (only to fall into Arcann's hands)

-Prevented the fall of the Sith Empire (Except it still fell)

-Prevented the fall of the Republic (Except it also still fell)

-Prevented the fall of the Jedi Order (Basically irrelevant in this point in history)

-Gained Isotope-5 for the Sith Empire (all the good that did)

-Gained the alliance of the Hutts for the Republic (again, made pointless)

-Stopped the Dread Masters (but now under control of equally tyrannical force users)

-Stopped a crazy Revan (see above)

 

etc. and so forth.

 

Does the erasing of all these accomplishments within a year or two of accomplishing them make for a good and meaningful story?

 

In my eyes.... hell no.

 

Also, another thing as to why this whole thing makes no sense:

 

Vitiate is now paradoxically both the puppetmaster, and the puppet. He lay in wait with a secret empire for a millennium only to strike to weaken his own Empire so that he could destroy his own Empire with his other, even more secret Empire that is also more powerful. Why the hell didn't he just invade with both Empires at the same time and end the "war" (or slaughter) that much faster?

 

If the answer is because his new Empire wasn't ready until very recently, why didn't he just wait a few extra decades (or however long it is from the invasion of the Sith Empire to the invasion of the Eternal Empire) until it was ready, rather than wasting his other Empire? I mean, he had already waited a millennium, so in perspective that should be like a blink for Vitiate.

 

. . .

 

 

Ultimately, I'm not saying the story of SWTOR is destroyed beyond repair. I mean, KotFE's story isn't even over yet, and it doesn't look like SWTOR (the game itself) is ending anytime soon. All I'm saying is that I feel Bioware seems to have dug themselves into quite a large plot hole, and it's going to take a very good plot rope to escape from... And I don't like the look of that shovel they are holding.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Swissbob

[PolvinKut]

I have only played through chapter 4 of KOTFE but I feel the story is spinning a bit out of control, I mean I thought I destroyed the Sith Emperor and now this Santa Claus is supposed to be him?!

 

Makes no sense, so now he has children as well.

[DAWUSS]

I have only played through chapter 4 of KOTFE but I feel the story is spinning a bit out of control, I mean I thought I destroyed the Sith Emperor and now this Santa Claus is supposed to be him?!

 

Makes no sense, so now he has children as well.

 

He's had "children" in Acts I-III.

[PolvinKut]

He's had "children" in Acts I-III.

 

I'm a bit rusty on my acts, all I remember is Kira Carsen being the Emperor's pawn as well as others being controlled by the Emperor. Kinda what this Emperor is trying to do to me now in KOTFE.

[Bobbyrab]

Just some more thoughts and I'm no Star Wars expert but the Eternal Empire as a society makes no sense to me when compared to the rest of the lore. Unlike every other force user sect we seen in the game the Knights of Zakuul seems to be able to just use the force as a tool with no downsides and even when they cut down people mercilessly none of them. except for the Emperor's children seem to struggle with their emotions or the dark side.

 

Voss society in this way made a lot more sense since the entire culture was alien/differnet from our own and Voss Mystics used the force in a limited capacity, mostly for visions. Zakuul however seems to have managed a sort of unity that doesn't make sense consider their high tecnology/culture and leader. Even if the Emperor was able to hide his nature from those around him I don't think a force tradition built only on justice would work in the long run.

 

The Scions at least seems to have some ideas on their own but the knights are basically just common soldiers with the force. Why do they continue to serve when Arcann is almost openly acting like a madman and Vaylin basically kill her own people at random?

 

Very good point. It feels like a group of people/soldiers/characters who just get to use the Force and lightsabers because those are the "cool" toys of the SW universe, huh?

 

This is a problem that all of Star Wars stories, whether prequels or EU, have had for a while. I call it Force/lightsaber abuse. Basically, Jedi/Sith are recognized universally as the "big boys" of the galaxy (maybe the Mandalorians could be included in there...maybe) and therefore writers (video games, novels, comics, TV shows, even Lucas himself) use them and their powers ALL THE TIME. In SWTOR, literally any moment a Jedi/Sith is confronted by anything, they pull their lightsabers. And what happens? With such overuse, the powerful image of the Jedi igniting his lightsaber is rendered terribly ordinary.

 

Not to keep taking everything back to the OT, but whenever somebody pulled a lightsaber it was a BIG DEAL. Business was about to pick up. Now, you feel like if a mouse droid made a threatening noise to a Jedi, he'd pull his lightsaber. Because everybody loves those, right?

 

Same with Zakuul. It's like the writers for the story thought, hmm, we need a new civilization that's as bad as the Jedi or Sith...hmm, what to do...I know, let's give them lightsabers and Force use!! The mystique, aura and coolness of the lightsaber and Force use have been watered down so much that pulling a lightsaber is just as routine as pulling a blaster. Everyone has one.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Bobbyrab

[Karkais]

I have only played through chapter 4 of KOTFE but I feel the story is spinning a bit out of control, I mean I thought I destroyed the Sith Emperor and now this Santa Claus is supposed to be him?!

 

Makes no sense, so now he has children as well.

 

Vitiate hasn't had a real body in a long time. None of the incarnations we've seen ingame has been his original real body. He is essentially unkillable at this point. Which is in my opinion why the writer(s) turned him into Valkorion, a more manageable character with actual personality.

 

I'm a bit rusty on my acts, all I remember is Kira Carsen being the Emperor's pawn as well as others being controlled by the Emperor. Kinda what this Emperor is trying to do to me now in KOTFE.

 

Consular story has numerous children of the Emperor. At one point they are consulars planetary endbosses plus some others between planets.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Karkais

[SithKoriandr]

Don't agree that the accomplisments are forgotten. In fact, I'd say the accomplishments are remembered quite well, it's just the seven other classes that are not considered as important as the eighth one is.

 

So whatever character you're playing, you are remembered very well.

 

Besides that, what they really accomplished was "keep the status quo" for a lot of it. Can't have one side go to far over the other, or well, we've already seen it on the forums...players whining. Look at what people say about Malgus and Marr. "Why only Sith die?!" Of course, they forget the Jedi lose two council members who are seen in the early levels of Knight and Consular. Consular defeats one for being a child of the emperor and the other is killed on Ilum by the Empire characters.

 

See that? It's the Empire characters killing a major Council member and it's the Empire who kills Malgus.

 

As for the Eternal Empire. They (BW) needed an enemy that both the Empire and Republic could rally against, since they're going the route of one storyline. So, the made a new big bad.

 

As for the Eternal Empire's force use. It would appear the Knights of Zakuul are pretty neutral in standing, and it's been debated before if one really needs to be all dark or all light to be all powerful or if it's just based on the person, but if we go with Dark or Light pick a side for true power, even Lana says "You never learned to channel your hatred."

 

As for all the force users, I do agree there. Seems to be way to many for something that is supposed to be rare. Both for the Sith, Jedi and now the Knights. The Jedi now, seem to over populate the ones from the second trilogy.

 

At the same time, it's an MMO, so they're likely to just go that route and have to make concessions for the MMO factor of it.

[PolvinKut]

Vitiate hasn't had a real body in a long time. None of the incarnations we've seen ingame has been his original real body. He is essentially unkillable at this point. Which is in my opinion why the writer(s) turned him into Valkorion, a more manageable character with actual personality.

 

 

 

Consular story has numerous children of the Emperor. At one point they are consulars planetary endbosses plus some others between planets.

 

It seems kind of wierd that we stop Revan from trying to revive the Emperor in a real body so he could destroy him and all of a sudden he is now Valkorion?! IDK I just think these plot twists are a bit strange for my taste.