VegasTheLost Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Plus, the elimination of Force Charge | Leap seems like a good thing to me so far as we no longer have to worry about that ability re-positioning us or being on CD when we actually need a gap closer. Summed up perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpeSangrea Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) I don't raid anymore, I haven't for a long time. So all these arguments about a better raiding rotation don't mean anything to me. I enjoyed leaping around like a crack-monkey. Close range leap made it so much fun. I tried everything out on the dummy, and numbers notwithstanding it just isn't fun anymore. That one ability is the main reason I played watchman for so long. Being able to hit better numbers doesn't mean much if I'm not having fun with the class anymore. Edited October 30, 2015 by CarpeSangrea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyrider Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 The force leap rework was a little jarring at first but by the time I hit 65 using force melt as a generator instead of leap worked fine for me. Hated note being able to close after knockback because leap was on cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrillOG- Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) No. Just no. Now you always have a leap up when you need it and aren't forced to blow your leap on CD for focus/rage. Anni mara's now have a leap to use for mobility 100% of the time, a brand new gap closer/immunity (which is also amazing, if you disagree its a l2p issue.) in the form of mad dash, and while not as new the ability to use predation every 30 seconds without the cost of a berserk/bloodthirst. (Predation also provides 10% melee/ranged defense to your group. A very useful bonus.) On top of everything else you aren't forced to self root yourself to build focus. I'm sorry but there is literally no reason to complain about the change. Stop thinking inside the box and trying to hold onto the same old static rotation. This change is good for the class and only that. Edited November 1, 2015 by TrillOG- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Who gives a thing about tactics I wanna jump all over the battlefield and look cool doing it. Have you seen mad dash that stupid thing has no precision and its a sure way to die because in this game there a ton of platforms with a never ending hole. It was not removed but it went great to close the gap when you killed one mob nobody wants to lose time moving from mob to mob. Marr/Sentinel are dps nothing else but dps they are nothing else but dps they can not afford to lose time not doing dps. Damn it bioware why do you destroy what you do right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrillOG- Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Who gives a thing about tactics I wanna jump all over the battlefield and look cool doing it. Have you seen mad dash that stupid thing has no precision and its a sure way to die because in this game there a ton of platforms with a never ending hole. It was not removed but it went great to close the gap when you killed one mob nobody wants to lose time moving from mob to mob. Marr/Sentinel are dps nothing else but dps they are nothing else but dps they can not afford to lose time not doing dps. Damn it bioware why do you destroy what you do right. What? Mara dps is in a better spot than it was the entirety of 3-4.0. As far as mad dash being a sure way to die and having no precision, you go 20 meters in the direction you are facing and Tyrans is the only fight I can think of that would be risky to use the ability. Adjust to change, you'll be better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) What? Mara dps is in a better spot than it was the entirety of 3-4.0. As far as mad dash being a sure way to die and having no precision, you go 20 meters in the direction you are facing and Tyrans is the only fight I can think of that would be risky to use the ability. Adjust to change, you'll be better off. You all forget the time lost when you attack another target sure its good when fighting against one target but you kill it and you have to attack another one that is precious time lost while before force jump and done. Now I have to actually walk towards the target which again is precious time lost. Or better lose time calculating if its good to use mad dash. Somebody said think outside the box well stop thinking in terms of the dps against one creature and think of the dps in terms of the whole group. dps means damage per second and there are a lot of seconds lost. Remember most the fighting in this game is against groups of mobs not against one single mob at a time. Also you forget that even some ops are in a platform and if you fall you die. The new content has tons of places you can fall in the abyss, so does the red reaver, the op with the rakata, plenty of quests a couple of FP like the one against the madalorian mercenary we tried to recruit and I am pretty sure there others also. I will repeat it does not matter you have the best dps possible against a single creature when you lose 10 seconds getting to the other one. Remember you are a dps you have to kill them very very fast. Also I am tired of mastering this class time and time again. There are other classes I need to master also and game time is not that generous. Edited November 2, 2015 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardarell_Solo Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 You should practice ghosting, as it's the great thing we can do having instant abilities almost exlusvely: Activate the killing blow of your last target and once it has triggered, start moving towards your next target. If you do it right, you won't have any downtime, even without short range leap. Plus: Not having leap in your rotation means it will alway be available so you can always jump to your next target. If you're at 9m, walk back 1m during "ghost" and then leap. You can also "ghost" to your next target with our 10m skills, if it's farther away and leap should not be ready: Force Stasis (it's instant since 3.0!), Rend (If available) and even Blade Storm, since we're good on focus with 4.0. Go and check Beastfury's raid parses on Parsely, he's a master at not having any downtime even with loads of target switching. Battelfield control is what you need to be capable of doing as a melee DPS. That means knowing which will be your next target and planning attacks and movement beforehand. I see how Force Leap without minimum range would let you cheese out of that and everybody liked that. But saying that you can't be as effective without it is oversimplifying things. It's gotten harder, but not THAT hard. If you're looking for practice: Draxus, Commanders, Corruptor, Olok, Styrak, Bestia are good bosses to improve on that. And above all: PvP :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasTheLost Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 If you're looking for practice: Draxus, Commanders, Corruptor, Olok, Styrak, Bestia are good bosses to improve on that. And above all: PvP :-) Lurker? 3 dummy adds basically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I have played watchman from the begining and I really understand people who say it's like missing a limb. We lost alot of mobility which is quite important for melee dps. I didn't really think leap as a focus builder as much as a gap closer. We got some mobility back with blade blitz and I can see it having some uses, but it's way too imprecise to replace the leap. I didn't like changes to watchman spec in 3.0 and I don't like them now sadly I don't believe any changes will come so I will just switch to some other class. Sentinel doesn't feel enjoyable anymore. EDIT: It took while to get used to but after trying out oofalong's rotation and few operations I have changed my mind. I don't miss lower range on leap anymore and watchman feels alot better than what it was in 3.0. I actually agree with your first statement before the edit. I am a heavy PvPer and I can assure you, Marauders are a joke in PvP now. I actually giggle when I see somebody come at me with one while I completely either destroy destroy destroy them or send them running to go lick their wounds. Really sad since Annihilation Marauders were my favorite spec/class since open Beta. Now I don't play them at all. They need to be fixed or taken out of the game to save people the disgrace of being repeatedly killed in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor-Norton Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I actually agree with your first statement before the edit. I am a heavy PvPer and I can assure you, Marauders are a joke in PvP now. I actually giggle when I see somebody come at me with one while I completely either destroy destroy destroy them or send them running to go lick their wounds. Really sad since Annihilation Marauders were my favorite spec/class since open Beta. Now I don't play them at all. They need to be fixed or taken out of the game to save people the disgrace of being repeatedly killed in PvP. Watchman and Sent/Mara in general performs fine in PvP (honestly one of the stronger classes). If you are doing terrible the problem is you aren't playing it right. I think there are some QoL changes that should be made to make it more consistent and a bit less frustrating (comes down to their ideas for making Force Melt gel with the spec don't work). But it can perform fine. Edited January 17, 2016 by Emperor-Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Watchman and Sent/Mara in general performs fine in PvP (honestly one of the stronger classes). If you are doing terrible the problem is you aren't playing it right. I think there are some QoL changes that should be made to make it more consistent and a bit less frustrating (comes down to their ideas for making Force Melt gel with the spec don't work). But it can perform fine. I don't think the problem is me not playing it right. If that were true then everyone else is playing them wrong as well...on a PvP server. Hardly anyone plays them and when you do find that one poor soul who plays one, you see them completely destroyed by all other classes. I do not believe it to be a matter of playing it wrong, I believe it to be a horrible mechanic for the class in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor-Norton Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I don't think the problem is me not playing it right. If that were true then everyone else is playing them wrong as well...on a PvP server. Hardly anyone plays them and when you do find that one poor soul who plays one, you see them completely destroyed by all other classes. I do not believe it to be a matter of playing it wrong, I believe it to be a horrible mechanic for the class in general. NA PvP Servers (especially Pot5) are dead, every active player who was good has long left the server. Class performs well (Anni included) in both yolos and 4s. Look at the leaderboards. The top Sent in 4s in S5 and number 3 Yolos Sent in S6 played Watchman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 NA PvP Servers (especially Pot5) are dead, every active player who was good has long left the server. Class performs well (Anni included) in both yolos and 4s. Look at the leaderboards. The top Sent in 4s in S5 and number 3 Yolos Sent in S6 played Watchman. Okay, first I was one of those players who were considered good by the community and I was one of those players who have long gone. I recently came back. I do admit, the players who are here now seem very clueless as to how to play their class in general and are what I would consider bads. I have noticed that all the good players that was once here, that I was friends with, have left the game and are nowhere to be found. So I can agree with you there. I am currently leveling my Marauder up to level 65 and am going to give it a try for myself. However, the class feels very clunky now in comparison to what it once was. In regs, at level 55 (Which was top level when last I played) I am doing well so far. However, I have yet to see any really good players since I have been back. I wish members of WAR or any other half decent guild was still playing, so I could find somebody who could give me a good run for my money. Sadly, I have yet to see any of their members or any other member from any other well known guild since I have been back. I won't make any further harsh judgements for now until I have given it a fair chance behind the wheel. However, as of right now...my mind is unchanged as to my opinion of the class....because so far, I have seen nothing impressive come out of a Marauder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LautrecofCarim Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Wraiven, watch this, my mans, it's a dueling tournament 23:26 - Mara just outheals a jugg's self heal and destroys him 48:16- Mara poops on a MM sniperthat had previously deleted a fury mara 1:40:13-Mara beats a madness sorc He was only beat out by a concealment op, I've only recently seen you post about how maras are bad and annihilation is bad Edited January 18, 2016 by LautrecofCarim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Wraiven, watch this, my mans, it's a dueling tournament 23:26 - Mara just outheals a jugg's self heal and destroys him 48:16- Mara poops on a MM sniperthat had previously deleted a fury mara 1:40:13-Mara beats a madness sorc He was only beat out by a concealment op, I've only recently seen you post about how maras are bad and annihilation is bad Okay, leveled Sacrofeus to 65 and geared him up fairly well. I must admit at this point, all those Marauders I have obliterated simply had no idea how to play them. The play style of the Marauder is pretty much the same with only a couple minor changes. I still miss my 0-30 leap...was really useful in interrupts. However, I seem to be doing pretty good at topping the charts in Damage at the end of almost every match I play. I'm actually curious what I could pull if I took the time to min max this one. My second closest to my main is my Assassin, he's a beast, but I think I am enjoying my Marauder again much better. Still though, I still agree with the OP that the class feels a bit off without that 0-30 leap. Just wish they changed the animation of Force Rend...that ability does not visually flow well with the class' other abilities. Feels very out of place and unnatural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arehonn Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Okay, first I was one of those players who were considered good by the community and I was one of those players who have long gone. I recently came back. I do admit, the players who are here now seem very clueless as to how to play their class in general and are what I would consider bads. I have noticed that all the good players that was once here, that I was friends with, have left the game and are nowhere to be found. So I can agree with you there. I am currently leveling my Marauder up to level 65 and am going to give it a try for myself. However, the class feels very clunky now in comparison to what it once was. In regs, at level 55 (Which was top level when last I played) I am doing well so far. However, I have yet to see any really good players since I have been back. I wish members of WAR or any other half decent guild was still playing, so I could find somebody who could give me a good run for my money. Sadly, I have yet to see any of their members or any other member from any other well known guild since I have been back. I won't make any further harsh judgements for now until I have given it a fair chance behind the wheel. However, as of right now...my mind is unchanged as to my opinion of the class....because so far, I have seen nothing impressive come out of a Marauder. We ( WAR ) transferred to the Shadowlands. Some of us are currently taking a break while others are doing their own thing in-game. But we all still use the same TS and play together in SWTOR when the mood strikes us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraiven Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We ( WAR ) transferred to the Shadowlands. Some of us are currently taking a break while others are doing their own thing in-game. But we all still use the same TS and play together in SWTOR when the mood strikes us. Shadowlands huh? How's the PvP over there? Might transfer if you have good news for me. PoT5 is dead dead dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xedrous Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 Finally someone else who thinks this is an abomination of a change, I feel you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Was this the reason the dev who made the change was insulted? Because of force leap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwurdilu Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 hello, i found a really annoying bug in the new patch: force leap isn't 0-30m since the patch, it's 10-30m and this is gamebreaking for me, because it absolutely destroys my play style can you hotfix this bug asap? thx then l2p. This has been the best change in existence of this specc because it finally leaves us with force charge as a real gap closer, and not as something we nee to spam because energy. This change made this specc viable for pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khryn Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Shadowlands huh? How's the PvP over there? Might transfer if you have good news for me. PoT5 is dead dead dead. The PvP on the Shadowlands is great. Very Bipolar though on which side wins. Somedays the Reps have it together, other days it's like they all thought "Let's not fight back!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkillon Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Not a bug, intended. Same as in kotor 1/2, you only leap when at least 10m from target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PacificaSolaria Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 then l2p. This has been the best change in existence of this specc because it finally leaves us with force charge as a real gap closer, and not as something we nee to spam because energy. This change made this specc viable for pvp. You do you know you're replying to a post that was written in Oct of last year? I'm sure he's adjusted to the change since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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