So it costs like 4000/5000 comms to get full Expertise at level 60

[AlrikFassbauer]

One class that I see doing absolutely astounding in the midbies on the lowest levels (save for the sages, yes) is sniper/gunslinger. Just unbelievably well from 37 onward.

 

I fully agree to that. In the lowest bracket, Gunslinger is like "the killing machine", so to say.

 

In the middle bracket, however, it becomes less and less viable, at least that's my personal impression due to the herds of PTs & Sorcs & Assassins.

Which often do even more damage (got hit yesterday by an PT for 9000something on my level 38 Gunslinger who was entangled in another fight).

 

The worst experience I know of is the highest bracket for Gunslinger : IT is as if the viability of Gunslingers is going down from Low-level (highest viability) to almost nothing (highest levels), with a fluke upwards, I read, in Ranked.

 

That's my very personal impression. The interesting point is how different this is for example compared to Assassins, who get it the direct opposite : Low in low levels - high in high levels.

Edited October 7, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[teclado]

I still think that your biggest issue is actually that you are playing pub side. A lot of times you can go in with full 198 gear (and have less than 1k expertise after bolster does its thing) on imp side and still easily win. As somebody who also prefers pub side, I feel your pain. Just give in to your anger and go imp side, which will actually have the opposite effect of...relieving your anger (you'll start winning)...which is strange, I know.

 

They used to do the whole recruit gear thing, but they stopped doing that because many players refused to wear it for one reason or another - didn't know about it, didn't like the appearance, etc. So BW ditched recruit gear and instead opted for trying to make bolster one size fits all, more or less level the playing field no matter what you are wearing, but give the edge to the pvp gear. This resulted in a rather convoluted system. They have to give the edge to pvp gear, otherwise there would be no point in pvp gear at all - 198 ops gear would be best for pvp, meaning that you'd have to run endgame ops to get the best possible stats for pvp. Players figured out the best possible bolster with pve gear, 'cause we want every edge we can get in pvp. That's where the 162 and 162/156/148 came from.

 

Personally, I'd like to see recruit gear come back, but that's not up to me. At least now with the outfit designer, players can get the look that they want. They would just have to actually equip the recruit gear. BW does not want to have any barrier of entry to regular warzones whatsoever, perceived or real.

[foxmob]

Everyone starts somewhere, if you think a level capped player should start out by "PvPing while levelling of course so you have comms to start with", then no, that's not a solution. That's just gaming the system when you actually know what to do.

no. it's working as intended. leveling brackets give WZ comms. WZ comms are used to purchase PVP gear. wth is "gaming the system" about that? you can't figure out that you stockpile comms while leveling? or are you saying it's "gaming the system" to use legacy tokens that are specifically designed to transfer WZ comms from one toon to another. everything I've said is working as intended and has absolutely nothing to do with "gaming the system."

 

Of course I don't want to PvP while levelling, because it's even more unbalanced. Either I'll be stronger, or my opponents will be stronger as I level, so any sense of balance is out the window. I don't find that very fun.

60s are a lot more difficult than leveling brackets. if you get your panties in a bunch with leveling PVP then you'd be better off not PVPing at all, b/c I assure you, 60s is considerably more difficult. that's why scrub guilds run around low/mid brackets but you don't see those tags at 60: leveling brackets are easy sauce.

 

Your advice reeks of PvP Elitist, and is basically like saying to a PvEr that instead of just... you know, wearing basic comm gear to do content at max level to grind out Ultimate Comms and then gear the crud outta yourself before cap anyway.

your post and your response to me sounds like butthurt whiner who got crushed b/c he stepped into a WZ w/o knowing a thing about what he was doing and then ran to the forums to demand change for things that aren't even broken.

 

I'm not an elitist. I'm a realist. I don't expect to run around dominating OPS without practice (psst -- leveling brackets) and I don't expect to gear out my toons in the first week they hit 60. if you want to ignore PVP or PVE for 60 levels and then jump into it, expect some grinding. grow up.

[DomiSotto]

Given the below quote from the OP, I am not sure about the extent of his or her experience in the end-game PvE. I am wondering if s/he primarily plays solo and does not normally gear up via content, and that is what is causing this strong knee-jerk reaction:

 

PvP you're expected to have PvP gear, or seemingly, gear so bad it gets full 2018 bolster. Though given Ops aren't soloable, Arkanian isn't exactly the easiest to grind for, though I presume you mean it's just best you can get since it has aset bonus.

 

In my experience on the Harbinger, and I have only been playing the Ops over the summer as a casual pug, getting a full set of Arkanian gear is a two hour undertaking at most. And, tbh, I did it for most of my level 55 characters since I saw the advantages of it. And, yes, I know it's cheating!

Edited October 7, 2015 by DomiSotto

[DariusCalera]

We could always ask to go back to the basic gear costing 13,500 comms for a full set.

 

Simply put, if you do not want to PvP while level then that is your choice but you have to live with the consequences of your choice. If you want to be competitive when you hit 60 you either have to PvP a little while leveling or use 162 gear once you hit 60.

 

If you refuse to do either of those and insist on using high end PvE gear then you should prepare to be targeted first, especially in arenas where the other team can see your hit points, and to die a lot.

[Transairion]

@foxmob

 

 

no. it's working as intended. leveling brackets give WZ comms. WZ comms are used to purchase PVP gear. wth is "gaming the system" about that? you can't figure out that you stockpile comms while leveling? or are you saying it's "gaming the system" to use legacy tokens that are specifically designed to transfer WZ comms from one toon to another. everything I've said is working as intended and has absolutely nothing to do with "gaming the system."

 

You also very deliberately fail to mention how, until a few weeks ago there was no way to stockpile comms while levelling for a full PvP set at cap, without selling and rebuying PvP gear to constantly stay under comms cap (which was like 4500 or so if I remember right). Legacy tokens were only added extremely recently.

 

WZ "Brackets" give PvP comms, because they're PvP. PvP not giving PvP comms would be pretty dumb. Being told they're the only way to earn them is also pretty dumb. I can earn Basic Comms going and grinding low level content too, but I'm not going to tell anyone that earning them at max level is a bad idea either.

 

 

PvP while levelling is "best practice"/most exploitable, just like getting a full set of Ultimate gear then transferring to another freshly capped character is best practice for PvE if you had nothing better.

 

 

60s are a lot more difficult than leveling brackets. if you get your panties in a bunch with leveling PVP then you'd be better off not PVPing at all, b/c I assure you, 60s is considerably more difficult. that's why scrub guilds run around low/mid brackets but you don't see those tags at 60: leveling brackets are easy sauce.

 

Exactly as I said, because sub-60 PvP brackets are a million times more unbalanced.

 

If half your team hasn't got any CC yet because they just so happen to be level 10's, while the other team is full of level 25+'s, then yeah of course that team will have an easier time of things. They're exploitable for easy wins by the higher ups in the brackets.

 

You're not going to find someone in a 60's game with only 10 abilities total unless they're a troll.

 

 

your post and your response to me sounds like butthurt whiner who got crushed b/c he stepped into a WZ w/o knowing a thing about what he was doing and then ran to the forums to demand change for things that aren't even broken.

 

I'm not an elitist. I'm a realist. I don't expect to run around dominating OPS without practice (psst -- leveling brackets) and I don't expect to gear out my toons in the first week they hit 60. if you want to ignore PVP or PVE for 60 levels and then jump into it, expect some grinding. grow up.

 

Sure, I suppose I just got those 8000+ comms and 70 valor just by magic right?

 

By virtue of apparently being a Rep player, my WZ experiance is usually chalked up to defending nodes/doors nobody else will bother to do (the fact I have to actually thank people who bother to come help when attacked says a lot), and being steamrolled by FOTM classes as balance changes shuffle them slightly. And boy when those guilded team vs PUGs games roll by it just gets depressing. Practice isn't an issue. That it's often like pulling teeth for 15 minutes at a time for 60-80 comms usually is. You don't want to know what it was like back when losses didn't even count for the Daily/Weekly, which asked for 7(?)/15 wins still.

 

Mind you, you can EASILY get geared at max level from 0 within a week: except I'm not so elitist to consider Ops gear bottom-of-the-barrel gear. Basics, which are in abundance, are just fine for playing. When Recruit was around, that was just fine for PvP too, it got you in the door so you weren't cannonfodder as a fresh player.

 

Here's a counterpoint for you: if gear is so easy to get, and not important (as PvPers love to say, since it's all skill right?) then why were people so opposed to free starting gear. Or gear period?

 

I mean, clearly if PvP were to be truly skilled based, everyone would want walk in at the same power level, no? The less barriers to entry, at least the more populated PvP would be.

 

 

Given the below quote from the OP, I am not sure about the extent of his or her experience in the end-game PvE. I am wondering if s/he primarily plays solo and does not normally gear up via content, and that is what is causing this strong knee-jerk reaction:

 

PvP you're expected to have PvP gear, or seemingly, gear so bad it gets full 2018 bolster. Though given Ops aren't soloable, Arkanian isn't exactly the easiest to grind for, though I presume you mean it's just best you can get since it has aset bonus.

 

In my experience on the Harbinger, and I have only been playing the Ops over the summer as a casual pug, getting a full set of Arkanian gear is a two hour undertaking at most. And, tbh, I did it for most of my level 55 characters since I saw the advantages of it. And, yes, I know it's cheating!

 

 

I don't normally PUG Ops often simply because I don't find any enjoyment grinding old Ops for what amounts to a comm reward only, a lot of my characters are already capped in that regard so the benefit is close to nil. I'm also not in the USA timezone (given Harbinger has had like 2-4 other servers merged into itself), so LFM Ops aren't being shot out every few seconds like I sometimes see when I'm able to log into earlier in USA time.

 

You've already said you can use 162 vendor gear (minus main/offhand) anyway, full bolster is the most important thing. We'll see if 162 will still be best in a week and a half in KOTFE, but I'm not sure it will be. Arkanian has only been easy to get since beginning of the year when it was rendered irrelevant for PvE gearing for the most part and nobody (usually) minds if someone Needs on them all right now. I'm not sure with Ops scaling in a week and a bit that'll be possibly anymore, but I hear 198's(?) will be best then?

 

 

We could always ask to go back to the basic gear costing 13,500 comms for a full set.

 

Simply put, if you do not want to PvP while level then that is your choice but you have to live with the consequences of your choice. If you want to be competitive when you hit 60 you either have to PvP a little while leveling or use 162 gear once you hit 60.

 

If you refuse to do either of those and insist on using high end PvE gear then you should prepare to be targeted first, especially in arenas where the other team can see your hit points, and to die a lot.

 

 

Hence why I always liked Recruit and never understood why they pulled it. Actual PvP gear always had better stats, but newbie gear was always good enough to not be cannonfodder. Bolster and the funny ways it works means without the 162 (at present) it's always weaker than Recruit gave.

 

I'm perfectly content using bolstered low PvE gear since I've been informed it can get you to cap (as I already said, previous times it only ever got me to 1800-1900's), though I still don't see why it needs to be such a slog from 0. The PvP gear system essentially presumes you'll win every single match for Daily/Weekly, but if the opposite is true... the comms you get are paltry.

 

Like 70 comms for a loss vs 120+ for a win, of course people will wanna exploit any advantage they can!

 

 

 

I miss Recruit, lol.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Transairion

[Draqsko]

I miss Recruit, lol.

 

/thread

 

Anyone that misses recruit gear doesn't have a leg to stand on, it was far worse than the current system we have now since it didn't even give you the same expertise as the first tier of pvp gear much less the top tier. New max level characters in recruit got melted just as fast as BIS PvE geared an heros do today.

 

Sorry, you just blew your own argument.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Draqsko

[DariusCalera]

Hence why I always liked Recruit and never understood why they pulled it. Actual PvP gear always had better stats, but newbie gear was always good enough to not be cannonfodder. Bolster and the funny ways it works means without the 162 (at present) it's always weaker than Recruit gave.

 

I'm perfectly content using bolstered low PvE gear since I've been informed it can get you to cap (as I already said, previous times it only ever got me to 1800-1900's), though I still don't see why it needs to be such a slog from 0. The PvP gear system essentially presumes you'll win every single match for Daily/Weekly, but if the opposite is true... the comms you get are paltry.

 

Like 70 comms for a loss vs 120+ for a win, of course people will wanna exploit any advantage they can!

 

 

 

I miss Recruit, lol.

 

The reason that they got rid of recruit gear was two fold:

 

1: People would sell the recruit sets for 350k, or whatever it was, then go into WZs in PvE gear, get smashed, then complain about getting smashed.

 

2: The recruit gear was just good enough for a player to skip a number of the lower level OPs. Which, PvErs complained about.

 

Recruit gear was terrible. It could not be modified and as such it was a waste of time and money to augment it. Not only that, there was quite a large gap in between the recruit gear and stock Battle Master, not even counting the gap between it and War Hero.

[DomiSotto]

Arkanum set became a great option for a level 55 PvP character with no prior PvP gear set simultaneously with Level 55 ops becoming a casual walk-through, i.e. at max level change to 60. For me the benefits of Arkanum at 55 were awesome, because it put me closer to the twinked guys in Bruts, and gave me a comm-earning stretch from 55 to 60 to change into Exhumed at 60. Ths option is not going to be available in a couple of weeks though, so... what can you do

 

The PvP gear system essentially presumes you'll win every single match for Daily/Weekly, but if the opposite is true... the comms you get are paltry.

 

Not really, no. There is no time limit set out to gear up. Hey, we all have those losing streaks, but even with all losses the current comm accumulation speed vs cost of the set is astoundingly generous. I have not had a chance to play with Recruit gear, I started back when there was no full expertise, and I was wearing 112/116, and Obroan was 168. It was hard! I also grinded an Obroan set before levels switch from 55 to 60, at the old comm accumulation rate. It was a piece per day grind, really. 2+ hours, wins, losses.... took me a couple of weeks. I think I have calculated something like 5 months to reach Dark Reaver at my rate

 

I am sorry if it sounds like walking both ways up-hill kind of memories, but I've only recently actually went through gearing process in both PvP and PvE, and there is no comparison in how much easier and straightforward the PvP gearing is.

 

Anyway, PvP has its problems, but the ease of gearing right now is not one of them.

Edited October 9, 2015 by DomiSotto

[foxmob]

 

I am sorry if it sounds like walking both ways up-hill kind of memories, but I've only recently actually went through gearing process in both PvP and PvE, and there is no comparison in how much easier and straightforward the PvP gearing is.

 

Anyway, PvP has its problems, but the ease of gearing right now is not one of them.

 

literally all I said in the first post before capt. overreaction went full retard.

[DomiSotto]

Sorry, I did not mean to regurgitate the points already made!

[Ramhez]

I play on EU normally and last week I levelled a sorc on Harb from 1 to 60, geared it in 168 (did regs for a few hours in green 162 gear) and played solo ranked to tier 1 rating in a total of 6 days. I'm obviously a nolife but if i can get full 168 in a day it would take a casual what, like 3 days? Ridiculous thread

[DomiSotto]

I play on EU normally and last week I levelled a sorc on Harb from 1 to 60, geared it in 168 (did regs for a few hours in green 162 gear) and played solo ranked to tier 1 rating in a total of 6 days. I'm obviously a nolife but if i can get full 168 in a day it would take a casual what, like 3 days? Ridiculous thread

 

I just had to comment that I have enjoyed your story It is so cool what people can do when they know what they are about. It never fails to amaze me.

[Jadescythe]

I play on EU normally and last week I levelled a sorc on Harb from 1 to 60, geared it in 168 (did regs for a few hours in green 162 gear) and played solo ranked to tier 1 rating in a total of 6 days. I'm obviously a nolife but if i can get full 168 in a day it would take a casual what, like 3 days? Ridiculous thread

 

Do the same thing with a DPS Commando and I'll consider you a god

[James_Mcturney]

OMG thats why this game is what it is, this is the kind of stuff ppl complain about? wth... it used to be 3x more expensive just 2 patches ago. CHILL AND PLAY matess!