Range Capacitor and Burst Laser Cannon

[Linuxizer]

Time to revisit an old debate: which Capacitor to use with BLC?

 

I finally got around and did some calculations and graphs:

 

http://i.imgur.com/acxqsnv.jpg

 

Since Range Capacitor affects damage and accuracy, its benefit depends on your chance to hit, which is affected by many factors. I generated 4 cases to cover a wide range, and graphed the average damage versus the range. The results do not really favor Range Capacitor over Damage Capacitor. In the situations where Range is better, the BLC itself is rather ineffective.

 

I had a quick look at the calculations that Verain and Trinity did originally 1.5 years ago, and did not see anything wrong with their numbers. The difference is how to interpret the results, and in the 1.5 years since then, most Scout pilots are firing at closer range today, so Damage Capacitor is probably a better choice.

[ALaggyGrunt]

If you want to melt something fast, freq. That's also good in BLC jousts: your second shot goes off before your opponent's does.

[btbarrett]

That is one of the least color-blind-accessible graphs I have seen. On a serious note, I find that, for me, the choice is between Ranged and Frequency. I realize that Damage may have greater overall sustained DPS, but I find that rate of fire is my rate-limiting step in getting kills. There have been countless times where a single shot will finish the target, but I just need the cooldown to finish. I also find it more useful in jousts because it allows you to get more shots in and over a small window of time, I believe it will supply more DPS. The choice of Ranged is also a matter of opportunity costs: being able to finish a target at 4200m or start my joust at 4400m is, I think, worth the sacrifice in single-shot damage.

 

I am just not entirely sold on the Average DPS being the proper metric for evaluating BLCs given the way that they are used in a live-fire environment. BLCs live and die by burst damage and I think it would be far more useful to look at which capacitor wins in a 3 second, 5 second, 10 second, and 15 second window. I would be very surprised if it was the same capacitor for all four scenarios.

[SWCNT]

Having tried all of them, I don't think it really matters that much. As your plots show--assuming a linear y-axis--the max relative change within a case is maybe ~10%, generally much less than that. So, considering the impossibility of accumulating real-world data because no one can create controls in GSF--hell we can't even get double premade action half the time when we are all sync queuing--I've stopped splitting hairs between them. In some cases (matches), one might be more useful than another for a particular 1v1 and such, but there's no straightforward advantage to picking one over another.

[Linuxizer]

This really came up when I saw Cedwic's thread about re-arranging the upgrades for Targeting Telemetry. Is +10% crit chance and +25% crit magnitude better, or is +15% range better? I never thought about it much until now. The TT level 5 crit upgrade give about +10% average damage over TT level 4. If +10% range from Range Capacitor is recommended over +10% damage from Damage Capacitor, then the TT level 5 range upgrade should be worth a try. As it is difficult to test these small differences, I went to the spreadsheet instead, and started with the Capacitors.

 

Yes, all three Capacitors are still valid choices and they all have their pros and cons. If anyone asks me, I would recommend the Damage Capacitor for BLC.

[Karlbadmanners]

Ranged Capacitor all the way baby. It's certainly not empirical but in my experiments it has come out by far on top for BLCs.

[Karlbadmanners]

Gonna try out TT w/ range increase, seems like it could be pretty nasty with BLCs. Edited October 5, 2015 by Karlbadmanners

[Verain]

That is one of the least color-blind-accessible graphs I have seen.

 

It's ok, Bioware chased out all those color blind people by having shields and hulls only display with the colors that color blind people can't distinguish. Almost everything in the game is distinguished with red and green!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=790788

 

On a serious note, I find that, for me, the choice is between Ranged and Frequency. I realize that Damage may have greater overall sustained DPS,

 

Frequency is normally greater dps if you can stay on the target. The big power of damage is that your initial hit is boosted, and often that's all you get. Ranged is interesting- it actually boosts your accuracy and damage at all your ranges- and also gives you more ranges to shoot from.

 

There have been countless times where a single shot will finish the target, but I just need the cooldown to finish.

 

While true, ask yourself this- how many of those times would the frequency capacitor have made the difference between getting the shot and not? In other words, out of these situations:

 

> You can kill the target when cooldown finishes. Cooldown finishes. You kill target.

> You can kill the target when cooldown finishes. Target escapes before cooldown finishes.

> You can kill the target when cooldown finishes. Target escapes JUST BEFORE cooldown finishes.

 

Does the third happen? And then compare to the times where extra damage would work.

 

 

Now, on to the graph: Like most of these graphs, it assumes steady state dps. That is to say, it ignores entirely the first shot, as if it didn't exist- as if at time 0, your first shot is ALWAYS a miss. This will definitely give an edge to frequency. At time 0, after all, frequency does nothing, but damage and ranged both have their effects. By ignoring this, you really overestimate the value of frequency capacitor.

 

Second, with no Y axis, I can't really bring much use to bear. Did this graph count crits? Is the target at 0 degrees deflection? Any cooldowns up? By putting both on the same graph, you can't easily see the difference in the lower graph.

 

My old math:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=729222&page=15

 

I'm still generally of the opinion that if you take a lot of shots above 1600m, ranged will be better. And in general, I think that's still true. Your graphs show that, but because the lower graph is squished (and is such an edge case) it's almost invisible, among the noise. Try a more reasonable graph, without a max case living next to it. And remember that if you feel you take more shots under that range, especially if you take a LOT more shots under that range, then damage will help.

 

Also, frequency is really not fair on that. Why compare everyone to his steady state? Why focus on damage per second and not the damage done per shot, for instance? Especially for burst cannons, putting dps on the X axis instead of damage per blast is assuming a very unrealistic case of continuous fire over a long time. Remember you have to spend a couple seconds on a target before frequency does any damage more than damage cap at all.

 

 

The final argument in favor of range is that you actually can use the range part to snipe mines sometimes. That's more a utility thing, but I definitely like having that around too.

 

 

 

I don't feel that any of the capacitors are wrong, however. Unlike many component choices where there's a pretty clear victor, capacitors really have a lot of choice to them- each is better at its own thing.

[Verain]

Gonna try out TT w/ range increase, seems like it could be pretty nasty with BLCs.

 

The math says it is reasonable, but I don't think you'll like it compared to the crit thing.

 

If we are roughly considering the 10% range and 10% damage caps to be of similar-ish value, with the edge given to the range, we know that the range talent is about 15%- 50% better than what the cap gives.

 

The damage increase over base with the crit talent active is around 10% more damage* - that's lower than the 15%.

 

 

Since 15% (ranged) is more than 10% (damage) when we liked 10% (range) better than 10% (damage), it stands to reason we'd like it more... but the difference is that in the damage case here, we're comparing really wild crits. Damaged enemies are suddenly put in a spot where they could simply be obliterated a fifth of the time. That's pretty incredible, and enemies that ignore it will often be blown away or rendered profoundly damaged by a crit, while enemies that are aware of it will often have to leave. Then recall that the crit stuff applies to rocket pods, while the range talent doesn't help them at all, and I think you'll find that it's a much better talent on the whole. The ranged talent is great- I just think that it's up against one of the strongest talent points in the game with Precision Targeting on the table.

 

 

 

 

*If you turn on TT without the T5 talent at all, you have a 10% crit chance with BLCs, and the BLCs crit for 50%. The rockets have a 0% crit chance. This means that the BLCs are at 1.05B and the rockets at 1R. With that talent, the BLCs have a crit rate of 20% for 1.75 damage, and the rockets have a 10% crit chance for 1.75 damage. This means that the BLCs are at 1.15X and the rockets at 1.075R. The BLCs are at 1.15/1.05 ~= 10% boost, and the rockets at 7.5% boost over not having it. This is where the 10% above is mentioned.

[Linuxizer]

Some much needed background:

 

BLC with no Capacitor:

Min (500m): 1156 sdps, 123% weapon accuracy

Mid (3000m): 775 sdps, 93% weapon accuracy

Max (4000m): 590 sdps, 78% weapon accuracy

Tracking penalty = 0.5% per degree, less 5%

Rate of fire = 80 per minute

Firing arc = 34 degrees

(Lieutenant Pierce for offense)

 

Damage Capacitor: +10% damage per shot, giving +10% sdps, no change to blaster power consumption

Range Capacitor: +10% min, mid and max range

Frequency Capacitor: +15% rate of fire, no change to damage per shot, giving +15% sdps, +15% blaster power consumption per unit time

 

What is the y-axis on those graphs? It is the (sdps) x (chance to hit). The (chance to hit) is the weapon accuracy + bonuses - penalties, limited to 0% to 100%. I purposely didn't label it because I didn't want to start a big discussion about shield dps vs. hull dps, crit chance, crit damage, armor piercing, etc., all of which do not affect the comparison between Capacitors on the BLC.

 

The effects of bonuses and penalties do not need to be considered individually.

 

E.g., Wingman (+20%), TT (+10% base), TT (+5% Target Prediction), Combat Command (+20%), In Your Sights (+20%), Suppression (-25%), Running Interference (-15%), Distortion Field (-35%), Tracking Penalty (-12%), TT (-8% Threat Evaluation), Tensor (-6%), engine manoeuvre (-24%), passive evasion (-33%).

 

I think the range of total (bonuses - penalties) can go from -158% to +75%. I picked 4 values (+15%, -23%, -58%, -91%) to graph. If your target is a Scout at 20 degrees deflection, and nobody has any buffs or debuffs, then the total penalty is -38%, and we can mostly guesstimate or interpolate between Cases 2 and 3.

 

Case 1 and Case 2 give the same result at 500m, because a 23% evasive Gunship at 0% tracking penalty still has (barely) 100% chance to get hit. Cases 3 and 4, even at 500m, have less average damage because the chance to hit is less than 100%. Putting two Cases on each graph saves space, and also works as a reminder, for example why it is a bad idea to joust a Scout with DF, TT, RI while your Scout has nothing .

 

With all of that out of the way, it should be clear which line is which, even if I had used the same colour for all the lines . The Damage and Range Capacitor comparisons are apple-to-apple below 4000m. The Frequency Capacitor comparisons are valid for those odd times when we use the BLC like a (bad) machine gun instead of a rifle.

[ALaggyGrunt]

You can fire freqburst semi-auto. Besides the obvious raw DPS stat, it has two big advantages:

If you're in a BLC joust, you get the second shot sooner than someone who doesn't.

Lag. When you're firing semi-auto and clicking on target with perfect 3/4 second tempo, lag will eat shots with the other two capacitors. Freq won't have this issue. As much.

[Danalon]

If you're in a BLC joust, you get the second shot sooner than someone who doesn't.

 

Depends. Someone with range capacitor can start shooting sooner, which makes all of his shots happen earlier.

[Ramalina]

Depends. Someone with range capacitor can start shooting sooner, which makes all of his shots happen earlier.

 

It's about 0.1 seconds sooner for the second shot if you fire at exactly 4400 m with the first, and frequency catches up on the third shot. This assumes head to head at normal speed.

 

Slow down and frequency pulls ahead on the 4th and subsequent shots.

 

In a normal speed head to head pass all of the capacitors only have time for 3 shots and Damage in general should do the most damage.

 

Use retro with ranged and you might be able to squeeze in a "free" extra shot if you also slow down.

 

It really is conditional as to which is best, and you can tailor your build to your expected flying style.

 

 

Where I think a lot of people get a preference for Ranged is that with imperfect play getting 1-2 shots is more likely to happen than getting 3-4 shots, and Ranged gives more leeway in positioning to have shots be in a favorable section of the accuracy and damage curves. So more of your shots wind up being good ones.

[RickDagles]

EDIT: nevermind I figured it out.

 

It seems to me that damage is the best choice against gunships, all three are about the same against scouts, and range is the best against CP bombers (you can kill mines easier and shoot BLC/pod combo from a safer distance of 4400m since that ship's evasion is either zero or 5 percent).

 

I think it's also worth mentioning that shooting turrets from 4400m is a lot safer than shooting them from 4000m.

 

 

I think it might be useful to make a chart for how the capacitors fare in the TT vs drone bomber scenario since a lot of TDM scouts use running interference. So 10% accuracy vs. 14% evasion. Maybe even throw in the effects of suppression or running interference.

Edited October 7, 2015 by RickDagles

[Linuxizer]

EDIT: nevermind I figured it out.

 

It seems to me that damage is the best choice against gunships, all three are about the same against scouts, and range is the best against CP bombers (you can kill mines easier and shoot BLC/pod combo from a safer distance of 4400m since that ship's evasion is either zero or 5 percent).

 

I think it's also worth mentioning that shooting turrets from 4400m is a lot safer than shooting them from 4000m.

 

I think it might be useful to make a chart for how the capacitors fare in the TT vs drone bomber scenario since a lot of TDM scouts use running interference. So 10% accuracy vs. 14% evasion. Maybe even throw in the effects of suppression or running interference.

 

We can use the existing charts and interpolate. Wingman (+10%) vs. Drone Bomber evasion (-14%) gives a total bonus of -4%. That's halfway between the existing graphs for +15% and -23%. On the +15% graph, the blue and red lines intersect at 3600m. On the -23% graph, they intersect at 2900m. We can estimate a -4% graph where they intersect at 3250m, so the Range Capacitor will be better than the Damage Capacitor above 3250m.

 

If you also got suppressed (-25%) and the Bomber also got RI (-15%), the total bonus becomes -44%, which is 3/5 of the way from the -23% graph to the -58% graph. On the -58% graph, the red and blue lines intersect at 2400m. 3/5 of the way from 2900m to 2400m is 2600m, so the Range Capacitor is better than the Damage Capacitor above 2600m. More importantly though, in this scenario and above 2600m, you are doing less than half the damage that you could be doing with the BLC.

 

If you have to shoot BLCs at 4000 - 4400m, your Capacitor choice is simple

[RickDagles]

I tried damage capacitors out for a bunch of matches. It might be that I'm too stuck in my ways but I really disliked it. I got killed by more seismics and got interdicted a lot too. And when I did pounce on gunships it didn't feel any more powerful.