Poll: who likes level sync and who doesn't

[Ramalina]

Don't know, haven't seen it implemented in SWTOR yet.

 

As far as benefitting/hurting the game level sync is probably pretty much meaningless. Only a small minority power through old content solo for cosmetic items (gear/decorations) and achievements. It'll annoy them if they're stuck on a low population server and can't get groups for things they want to do, but people with OCD tendencies tend to just grind more rather than quitting if things are made more tedious to do.

 

As far as getting people back into underutilized maps, level sync is completely useless and irrelevant. If you want to herd MMO players you offer them in game loot. If that takes more loot than you're willing to freely hand out then you try giving out achievements that involve a lot of time spent on very low replay-value content, perhaps with a little bit of bonus loot attached to achievement completion. In theory you could make content with high replay value, but that's so hard to do in a MMORPG PvE setting that basically no one even tries anymore.

 

Once most of the herd has acquired the loot it wants, the stampede turns into a few strays trickling by, and no amount of bolster or similar mechanic is likely to alter that.

 

Where level sync might have some real benefit is on the content creators' end. If you can throw new level-cap PvE content into an existing map without messing up the "background level" content experience, then it greatly reduces the map-building workload for creating that new content. Basically it allows the developers to suddenly build something worthwhile on unused back lots in SWTOR maps without messing up anything else. Or in theory at any rate, an inspired design team can almost always find a way to screw up perfectly good game mechanics and create a terrible play experience.

 

Level sync gives them space to build content, whether level sync benefits the players to a significant degree depends on what the devs build in that space.

 

It could be great. It could be terrible. It could be meh.

 

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Deyjarl]

we can tell by the first few words that you vote FOR sync..and it's obvious why they don't want people to keep talking about it

 

Except they can talk about it all they want, in the main topic thread on the blog that discusses the changes.

 

Phony accusations and paranoia... get some help.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Deyjarl

[Faelandaea]

Except they can talk about it all they want, in the main topic thread on the blog that discusses the changes.

 

Phony accusations and paranoia... get some help.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. Some people need to get rid of their tin foil hats and seriously log off the game for a bit.

[PackfanKen]

Very against it.

[Exeeter]

Most of your points seem either irrelevant to level sync or don't support the need for it.

 

His points are reasonably sound actually, it amazes me how many people are bothered by this.

 

The system wide change opens so many doors for BW to implement future events and incentives for level capped players to participate in said events with players of all level ranges, allowing everyone to benefit from.

 

Making it optional is irrelevant as there is virtually no reason to roam around these planets if the above point ends up not being true (I fully expect bio ware to create events that send players to various planets with this feature intact). Seriously, what angle are the anti sync people taking here?

 

• it's immersion breaking? you are powerful and should feel it?

• reduced speed in farming acheivments, rep or credits?

 

You are synced to one level before the mobs would go grey to you with your entire arsenal of abilties. You will steam roll everything regardless ffs. or do you want the slight boost in convenience with not aggroing mobs?

[Faelandaea]

as for me: i like to solo FPs in normal or HM, for achievements or decorations.. this change is going to take it away..

 

Not at all. Did you watch the stream on the 30th? If not you may want to go to Twitch and pull up that stream Eric was on a Sync'd character, in AVERAGE gear, and he practically one-shot silvers in a heroic area. Golds went down for him as if they were silvers. Now imagine if he was in GOOD gear!

 

EDIT!!! - Looks like they just did a new blog that answers JUST that:

 

Heroic Missions have been adjusted to be completed by groups of 2+. This means that former [Heroic 4] missions have had their difficulties reduced.

 

Source: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20151005

 

There we have it. ALL Heroic missions can now be solo'd. You no longer need a group for ANY heroic content!!!!!

 

but like i said: optional.. anytime. let people choose, just like they can do with the 12x EXP...

 

I think the only viable compromise on that was the idea that was mentioned before - have a special map instance (not an auto-instance. A set map you have to take a shuttle to or something) that is the same planet but NOT sync'd. This way, players can play peacefully in Sync environments and the players who want to play in God Mode can do so on the side without affecting low level players at all.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Faelandaea

[TravelersWay]

I'm all for it. One of the best decisions the devs have ever made. And it absolutely must be mandatory. This is for several reasons. Most of them have already been talked about, but I'll list them:

 

 

 

• One more step in abating credit farming and slowing inflation.
   
   
  
• Yes the WBs are a thing. People don't do them now because they're mostly meaningless. I suspect they plan to change this.
   
   
  
• It's hard to say what it will do for PvP. I think, overall, it will be positive, but the one wild card is expertise. But that's a whole issue of its own.
   
   
  
• Also, griefing isn't just a PvP issue. There are plenty of ways high level characters can grief lower level players without ever being flagged.
   
   
  
• It will help balance Conquest and make it work closer to what was intended.
   
   
  
• Makes sense from a story/lore point. Yes you're 65 uber Sith outlander could go back and slaughter k'lor'slug eggs. But it's also six years later and Korriban got a makeover, but I guess Cormun is still there begging for help? The sync is just a pseudo time regression. It works best to this effect when everyone uses it.
   
   
  
• The edition of temp bars suggest to me they plan on adding more regular events. These will be more fun for everyone if levels are all equal. Zone events in other games are always a lot of fun until a high level comes along and spoils it for everyone. And, yes, it happens more than you'd think.
   
   
  
• Along those same lines, I bet they'll start adding level-scaled dailies to all the planets. One easy solution would be to make four or five of the new exploration quests on each planet repeatable. Then add a daily cap. (Say 15 per char.) This would not only give people a lot more verity, but it would help spread the pop.
   
   
  
• It promotes a more consistent difficulty curb throughout the course of the game. SWTOR is in a truly unique situation where it has storylines akin to those of single player RPG, but has to do so in a MMO environment. All of their single player games use mechanics to help control the level curb and prohibiting players from powering through games: regulate exp gains, scale pack level, size, difficulty, that sort of thing. But none of those work in a MMO environment. This was their [best] answer, even if only helps a little.
   
  There are those who say they like to do story several levels above. But, in every form of the game, the story continues at cap. And, with such a small cap increase, I suspect much of the TFE chapters will be 65. What will those players do then? What have they done. I suppose they can supplement out-leveling with out-gearing. But in most phases of game the quickest/easiest way to get entry gear was doing the cap content.
   
   
  
• I have no doubt that a more balanced difficulty curb will make the population as a whole better. People argued against 12xp because it would promote poor play. But really, there's only so much a player can learn about his class/spec if he doesn't have the basics down. The amount of time he spends doing it is mostly irrelevant. However, since they now can't power their way through the base game, they'll be forced to learn those basics.
   
   
  
• Having a consistent difficulty curb also balances quest rewards with their relative difficulty. I think they could take it further in this area. I was surprised to learn they didn't make the exploration quests rewards level-appropriate. Even if they don't make them repeatable as I suggested above, they should at least make the rewards scale.
   
  In fact, I'd go so far as to say all quest rewards would be scaled to true level.
  

 

 

While none of these examples may not be justification enough on their own, they do add up. And I'm sure there are other small reasons the devs has thought of as well. When criticizing a development change of this magnitude It's important consider the whole effect and not focus on one part.

 

Really, what have been the issues that people think mandatory level syncing will solve? Let's also remember that there is a difference between perceived problems and actual problems.

 

PvP ganking

A problem that is as old as the MMO genre itself. My days of hardcore PvPing are behind me (except during Stronghold Kingdoms), so I don't know if any other games with OPvP have any systems in place to combat this, nor how well they have worked, but a simple solution to this is for the game to prevent one player from attacking another player if there is a pre-determined level disparity between them. That way, even with PvP flags on, a max level character can't attack a level 20 character, and vice versa.

 

Helping a lower level player

This should be obvious to any and every one. There are many, many games that have mentoring systems in place, and most are optional systems. Optional works just fine there, so there's no problem having optional work fine here as well.

 

World Boss/Group Content Soloing

People keep soloing the WB on you? Well, just add a skill to every WB that mimics the dev's one shot ability and have it trigger when a player or group of players attempts to attack the WB with less than a predetermined number of people in said group. Three or less? All one-shot. Group of Four - have at that sucker.

 

Now in terms of the soloing of group content, that is more of a perceived problem than an actual problem. Someone soloing a heroic has absolutely no bearing on my ability to play that heroic "as intented" with three of my guildmates, friends, or random PuG. However, since people seem to always get there panties all in a wad over how other people enjoy a game, we can just make Heroics that take place in an instanced zone disallow anyone entering who is not in a group, or level appropriate for that heroic. Open World Heroics can simply be one of those zones where level syncing does become mandatory - just like those designated PvP zones like Outlaw's Den.

 

Content Relevance

This might come as a complete surprise to a great many people but the relevance of content is a purely subjective thing. What may be relevant to one person is irrelevant to another.

 

I enjoy running Essles and Black Talon. I enjoy running them as I level with my alts, and I enjoy running them with my characters who have long since out-leveled those flashpoints. They still remain relevant to me without level syncing, and will always remain relevant to me with or without level syncing. Someone who has no interest in running those Flashpoints will feel the opposite - that content will never feel relevant to them regardless of whether they are synced or not.

 

People who are only interested in the class stories will not find any other piece of content relevant to them with or without level syncing. People who enjoy running heroics again and again will always feel that the content is relevant to them. Now they can be rewarded appropriately with level syncing - and it doesn't require that level syncing be mandatory in order to keep it relevant for them. Players who want to make content relevant for themselves can turn syncing on. Those that don't care can turn it off.

 

As mentioned before, syncing does little to encourage grouping. Those who are inclined to group will still do so. Those who do not wish to group will not be inclined to do so even with level syncing - they will just end up skipping the content they cannot solo more often than not.

 

Again, there has not been a problem mentioned where a more equitable solution than forced level syncing cannot be implemented to do the job better and more efficiently. Level syncing as an optional feature is a great idea. As a forced feature it fails on both accounts - it alienates players to prefer to have control over their character levels and power and it fails to adequately solve many of the long-standing problems that are staples of the MMO genre.

 

Ultimately, there is nothing about new content that could be added to the game that would require level sync be mandatory - the sync can always be tied to the mission being in the mission log (and thusly eliminating to potential for someone to turn it off and on in order to get the higher rewards for the easier content).

Edited October 6, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Beyorn]

If I wanted to go play GW2 I would ;P.

 

Make it optional if you have to add it at all ;P.

[-staticmatic-]

Not for it, unless I can toggle it.

[tavrinDosa]

I DONT WANT IT!!!!!!!!!!! It's a stupid idea. This is not Guild Wars 2.

 

this isnt wow neither and this isnt the same type of level sync as guild wars 2 so bleh

Edited October 6, 2015 by tavrinDosa

[Dalagante]

Because the core issues at hand aren't in the minute details. We know enough on the aspects of it we're discussing to form an informed opinion.

 

1.Have you been reading this post. Honestly optional supporter talk about having to group. It was clearly stated that you should be able to solo Heroics if you play smart. People have said levels won't matter. But high higher level will effect game play because you will have more abilities and more passive. People who support level-sync make claims it will increase group etc. Nothing has been said that would support that either. So no we can't discuss it informed because people are too set in their opinion they make up facts to try to get their point.

 

2. We don't know the full mechanics of the said change so it might not able to be made optional. Heck it might be key to the planned future of the game. You have no idea the reasoning for it being mandatory so to say it has to be optional is just an opinion based on no information.

 

3. There is almost no down side to this except I don't like it from the post I have seen. Mikey said he didn't like Life cereal Sam I am said he didn't like green eggs and ham. Again until you actually know how it works you really have no clue how much it effects your play.

 

4. Options aren't always better especially in games. In fact limiting the level game on a planet allows them to focus on getting the planet balance and spawn rate right. If you allow a huge disparity this can cause issue with balance and spawn rate. Warhammer if you got flagged PvP in a area where you were too high of level you got turned into a chicken with 1 hit point.

 

The problem is there is no intelligent discussion when people discuss thing from a point of ignorance and closed mindedness. We saw 3 fights of character with no passive not fully geared where he was 4 level above what he was fighting. I am sorry that isn't any information. That being said yes we know what changes but we don't know how much it changes or what determines it.

 

The minute detail are everything because that is how the system works. They also determining if the system will work or not. The only ones the minute details don't matter to are people who are disagreeing or agreeing because of a belief that the system is good or bad. People who are coming from a point of belief are not usually ration about said belief so have no business in an intelligent discussion.

 

Personally

 

I don't like level sync in concept. I general over level as I play naturally.

 

I think making it optional is the worst idea. You don't make a system like that optional you either do it or you don't. It mess too much with balance. There is a better chance for bugs and exploits in an optional system.

 

Without knowing the system I can't say if it will be good or bad. The concept is good for the growth of the game.

 

 

Besides studies show that options only decrease enjoyment not increase it.

[Dalagante]

After my moment of rage:p I come to the conclusion that this must be Optional for the most part. But things like the world boss can be level sync so that people need to group up for special stuff.

 

But I am a solo player and always will be a solo player, the people I play with are players I know in real life. And I liked this MMO because you could almost do everything solo. I also like achievement hunting but even when you are overpowered it takes a lot of time so I wont do that anymore. So I will have more and more reason not to play anymore.

And I love this game so much, put so much time in it, but what can you do:rolleyes:

 

I pretty sure all but world boss would still be able to be solo. Eric even said you keep your active and passive abilities so if you play smart you can solo the heroics. THe problem is people who scream optional ignore that because it crushes most of their complaints. In fact really all the do is scream I don't like it I don't like it. My nephew did that a lot when he was here last weekend. He has an excuse he is 5. Guess what he didn't get his way either.

[YinYangFirst]

Generally, I'm actually all for level sync. It would make doing lower level quests, as with the intention, interesting to do and not just make them a walk in the park. My problem lies with the fact that it's mandatory. Why can't more MMOs take a page out of Rift's, and other games like it, book? Level sync should be optional, a setting you turn on so that you can be on par with your friends or to make certain things more interesting. With it as mandatory, the game in its entirety becomes very off-putting and is one of the huge reasons why I stopped playing Guild Wars 2.

[Zylla]

I am a founder. I have played since launch as a sub. Because of mandatory level sync, my interest in the game has greatly diminished. I am seriously considering not renewing my sub. I could live with an optional sync, but not mandatory. What is the use of leveling now? Edited October 6, 2015 by Zylla

[djmtott]

What is the use of leveling now?

Unlocking additional content.

[djmtott]

Whether or not you like or dislike the levelsync system, it should not be optional. You simply can not have two different tiers of relative game difficulty that offer the same level of reward. The only way to make it even close to equitable is to severely gimp the benefits of not being levelsync'd. Or you just scrap the whole levelsync system, and at this point I assume it's far too late for that.

[dscount]

AGAINST unless it's optional. Then NONE at all if it's not. Sorry, but I like options.

[Deathbo]

The level sync doesn't bother me at all.

[RokDalor]

oh my god, nobody has thought of this, you are so original! Stop posting about level sync, developers have asked you to stop making new ones.

 

and we have asked for our conquest rewards/ achievements/ tittles to work properly. See what I did there?

[ROGERMNF]

Help new guild members is part of my dutty. IMO, leveling planets and leveling FP are one of the best ways to make sure that newbies will reach level 50-65 with a minimum bases of the game (rotations, skills, how to fight, what target attack first, how to work with a healer/tank in a group).

 

Teaching this in a FP is not practical. Sometimes you don't have 4 guild members (with 1 healer and 1 tank) and you have to enter with the newbie via GF. Most of the community has not always the patience to undestand this guy is learning to play. you have to stop to explain, give directions and die more than once... So, others do a ragequit (and I can't say I can't undestand).

 

level sync in my opinion makes my life easier because:

a) I can teach new player without presure to have to kill a boss or whatever and,

b) I can do it with any character (no relog time) without major affect to XP gain.

 

 

So... these are my reasons. Sorry for my really bad english.

[silviaslack]

I think making it optional is the worst idea. You don't make a system like that optional you either do it or you don't.

 

 

Rift has a scale down system, they did it before GW2 was even out and guess what? It's OPTIONAL.

 

You can either set your level manually or match the level of anyone in your group. The only thing that scale you down automatically is instant adventures, group activities you queue for.

 

In GW2 automatic scaling works very well because you have no reasons to be higher level than zones, ever, unlike Rift and SWTOR.

 

More important, in both Rift and GW2, XP after level cap matters, for planar attunement in RIft and skill points in GW2. I don't see the same in SWTOR except for those who are not yet legacy 50.

 

So either they don't take away what we can solo today and make XP actually useful after level cap or the sync being mandatory won't be a good thing for the game.

 

Personally.

I'd rather have it optional but I'm not quitting over it, not for now at least, I'll give it a good try and see how it goes.

Edited October 6, 2015 by silviaslack

[Quraswren]

AN UPDATE:

 

on how gamers think of level scaling. With SWTOR considered and labeled so much a copy of WOW and the wow poll based off the down leveling thats happen here. Something BW should have looked into.

 

Poll - Level Scaling

Would you like to have your character scale down to a zone's target level in WoW? What would you do with this feature if it was implemented?

 

Yes, optionally 52.87% (28,346 votes)

 

No 29.55% (15,843 votes)

 

Yes, always 17.58% (9,426 votes)

 

Total Votes: 53,615

 

There was a way to do this for the most gamers and BW making it mandatory isn't it.

 

You can see the actual poll over at MMO-C if you want: MMO-C

[djmtott]

AN UPDATE:

*snip*

 

Who cares? You think people are going to give up their easy mode without complaining? That's not a surprise.

[Mordresh]

I don't care one way or the other.

[Quraswren]

Who cares? You think people are going to give up their easy mode without complaining? That's not a surprise.

 

Seeing as how it's still rather easy anyway given the video. It's a rather stupid forced change that really doesn't accomplish making anything harder like you seem to think it does.

 

Lets not try and fix what isn't broken.