Poll: who likes level sync and who doesn't

[raverbane]

I always like to see new additions to game functionality. That being said.

This should DEFINITELY be optional!

[Jadescythe]

if its optional i am all for it. let people choose if they want to downscale or not.

 

as for me: i like to solo FPs in normal or HM, for achievements or decorations.. this change is going to take it away..

 

on the other hand i am going to take a look what it is going to be like... but not being able to solo the FP's is hitting me and my play style hard.

 

but like i said: optional.. anytime. let people choose, just like they can do with the 12x EXP...

 

I believe they are rescaling most FPs to allow for solo versions, so you should be fine there. It will mostly be heroics that will cause issues for solo players that would have otherwise been overleveled.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I like it, but not the incarnation that SW:ToR will be using. It should be optional. Like Rift!

 

If you want to Level Sync down to help a friend down Heroic Content on DK or Coru, then you should be allowed to!

 

If you want to not level sync and blaze through the DK/Coru Heroics, Ok, you can do that!

 

You should also be allowed to Level Sync UP to other planets, again Like Rift!

 

(If you want to know why there's so many Rift comparisons, it's cause Rift and this game compete within the same Themepark Tab Target MMORPG Genera, with Rift getting mechanics and optimization right, whereas SW:ToR has a great story and leveling pace. If we had the game mechanics and optimizations that Rift had in this game, it would be the best MMO ever. But, since the devs can't make a GPU work with the rendering engine... we are stuck with this POS.)

[Heaviermetal]

I prefer it and for it to be mandatory. Old mmo gaming trends need to change. + it works great in GW2. Edited October 5, 2015 by Heaviermetal

[-Spc]

The whole community should be on the same system of risk vs reward.

Then all servers should also be forced pvp enabled.

Why can people choose if they want to go to pvp forced server or pve ?

PVE vs PVP server ? why not just force everyone to be open world PVP enabled ?

[NUTMANIAC]

I like it

[azudelphi]

Then all servers should also be forced pvp enabled.

Why can people choose if they want to go to pvp forced server or pve ?

PVE vs PVP server ? why not just force everyone to be open world PVP enabled ?

Why not? Because false equivalency...

[-Spc]

Why not? Because false equivalency...

Well people have a choice.

PVP or PVE, here it should be the same with level sync, people should choose either ON or OFF.

 

That was my point.

[Tsillah]

I like it. Doesn't need to be forced from my point of view, but if BW has good reasons to do it like this then I'm fine with having it.

[Pirana]

Don't particularly care either way. I rarely go back to those areas, other than to help guild mates out. Now, it'll be slightly more challenging. Not a big deal.

[azudelphi]

Well people have a choice.

PVP or PVE, here it should be the same with level sync, people should choose either ON or OFF.

 

That was my point.

I have a choice between Coke brands or Pepsi brands. But most restaurants only carry one or the other! Queue the outrage machine!

 

Your point is a bad one because it uses a logical fallacy.

[Jadescythe]

I have a choice between Coke brands or Pepsi brands. But most restaurants only carry one or the other! Queue the outrage machine!

 

Your point is a bad one because it uses a logical fallacy.

 

The example is actually quite accurate. On PvE servers, you have those who choose to flag for PvP and those who do not. The key being that those who do not flag for PvP are not impacted by those who do. Me completing quests while 30 levels higher has no impact on your ability to do the same quests at level or someone else's ability to sync to planet level to do a quest with a friend.

 

And all of the arguments for mandatory syncing that I see use examples that make no sense like world bosses. As if anyone does world bosses today or as if you're entitled to kill a world boss simply because you were putting a group together to do so. But overall it is all easily fixed by simply having instances dedicated to sync or not the same way they fix the PvE and PvP differences by offering different server types.

[Tsillah]

The example is actually quite accurate. On PvE servers, you have those who choose to flag for PvP and those who do not. The key being that those who do not flag for PvP are not impacted by those who do. Me completing quests while 30 levels higher has no impact on your ability to do the same quests at level or someone else's ability to sync to planet level to do a quest with a friend.

 

That makes no sense at all. The PvP flag is about whether you want to engage in PvP or not. PvP is an entirely different type of gameplay.

 

Level syncing is still PvE but instead of being 50 times more powerful you'll be twice as powerful as any mob or something like that. You'll still beat them quite easily, just not quite roflstomp style. So it's not a different gameplay type.

 

Bolster happens in PvP, you have no choice to turn it off, do you? That is a much better comparison.

[azudelphi]

The example is actually quite accurate. On PvE servers, you have those who choose to flag for PvP and those who do not. The key being that those who do not flag for PvP are not impacted by those who do. Me completing quests while 30 levels higher has no impact on your ability to do the same quests at level or someone else's ability to sync to planet level to do a quest with a friend.

The problem is the word "choice" is being tossed around like that magically makes it equal; saying "I have a choice here means I should have a choice there" is a stretch of logic because it ignores all criteria that go into why each feature is structured the way it is. There exists ruleset A for certain servers and ruleset B for other servers. Yes, that much is true... but it doesn't mean that Legacy behaves different on PVE servers vs PVP servers. Doesn't make flashpoint behave different, operations, warzones, heroics, class missions, etc... just because one particular aspect of the ruleset functions on a choice basis (server without choice vs server with choice) doesn't mean that every ruleset can function that way. That's the false equivalency: "There exists a feature that is available as a choice, ergo this feature is capable of functioning as a choice."

 

By all accounts, if it is mandatory it was selected to be as such because of design considerations or other parameters that made optional an non-option.

Edited October 5, 2015 by azudelphi

[Jadescythe]

That makes no sense at all. The PvP flag is about whether you want to engage in PvP or not. PvP is an entirely different type of gameplay.

 

Level syncing is still PvE but instead of being 50 times more powerful you'll be twice as powerful as any mob or something like that. You'll still beat them quite easily, just not quite roflstomp style. So it's not a different gameplay type.

 

Bolster happens in PvP, you have no choice to turn it off, do you? That is a much better comparison.

 

Ok, with that example, is there a reason you couldn't have an option to turn it off? Other games have had PvP without bolster, so it's obviously preferential. I guess I'm yet to see an argument for forced sync that can't be overcome by simply gating the differences by instance. So you will never see anyone who isn't synced in one instance and it's free for all in another.

 

The other question is why it matters to you if I'm 50 times more powerful in PvE questing areas? And I would also argue your assertion that changing levels of a character based on location is as much a different game type as PvE vs. PvP server types. You yourself noted that I'd be 50 times more powerful than players actually at level, so my experience would certainly differ greatly from yours and my goals are different as well I'm sure.

[benwrigh]

Hi all im posting this not start any arguments at all so please bare with me.

I have been a subscriber since this game was first launched i am amongst the founders of this game and i have a right to be heard by bioware on this subject. Ok so what i need to put across is this after putting alot of time on my characters to get them to level 60 i feel that with level sync i would feel that all my effort and time and money also have been wasted. I do not want to become the highest level with 198 gear only to have you lower all my stats to match a certain planets level cap. I personally love going to say tython just to help lower levels with advice and i also give credits out freely to new subs to hep them out. But i hate the fact that i would be reduced down to such a low level as if i never left the planet and became a level 60/65 i earnt the right to be as powerful as i am i do not want you taking that away from me. If i want to go to a lower world and say take out a boss for a lower level just to get the loot from it for them to take away then that is my right as a paying customer. I simply do not see why you could not offer level 60/65 heroic versions on the worlds we once visted to make them fresh again with new challenges and not have us not filling our full potential. Truth is bioware i hope you read this as this is from someone who has supported you guys through the years with all of you're products i have even got my friends to continue to subscribe to swtor even after having there doubts. please do not do this you will lose so many people this way perhaps even me included. Just make 60/65 heroics on all lower worlds and do not sync our level to the planets level as attracting all the mobs when all we want to do is get to the objective will be unbareable. Thank you for you're time and i hope you are listening.

[Alphasgimaone]

I'm all for it. One of the best decisions the devs have ever made. And it absolutely must be mandatory. This is for several reasons. Most of them have already been talked about, but I'll list them:

 

 

• One more step in abating credit farming and slowing inflation.
   
   
  
• Yes the WBs are a thing. People don't do them now because they're mostly meaningless. I suspect they plan to change this.
   
   
  
• It's hard to say what it will do for PvP. I think, overall, it will be positive, but the one wild card is expertise. But that's a whole issue of its own.
   
   
  
• Also, griefing isn't just a PvP issue. There are plenty of ways high level characters can grief lower level players without ever being flagged.
   
   
  
• It will help balance Conquest and make it work closer to what was intended.
   
   
  
• Makes sense from a story/lore point. Yes you're 65 uber Sith outlander could go back and slaughter k'lor'slug eggs. But it's also six years later and Korriban got a makeover, but I guess Cormun is still there begging for help? The sync is just a pseudo time regression. It works best to this effect when everyone uses it.
   
   
  
• The edition of temp bars suggest to me they plan on adding more regular events. These will be more fun for everyone if levels are all equal. Zone events in other games are always a lot of fun until a high level comes along and spoils it for everyone. And, yes, it happens more than you'd think.
   
   
  
• Along those same lines, I bet they'll start adding level-scaled dailies to all the planets. One easy solution would be to make four or five of the new exploration quests on each planet repeatable. Then add a daily cap. (Say 15 per char.) This would not only give people a lot more verity, but it would help spread the pop.
   
   
  
• It promotes a more consistent difficulty curb throughout the course of the game. SWTOR is in a truly unique situation where it has storylines akin to those of single player RPG, but has to do so in a MMO environment. All of their single player games use mechanics to help control the level curb and prohibiting players from powering through games: regulate exp gains, scale pack level, size, difficulty, that sort of thing. But none of those work in a MMO environment. This was their [best] answer, even if only helps a little.
   
  There are those who say they like to do story several levels above. But, in every form of the game, the story continues at cap. And, with such a small cap increase, I suspect much of the TFE chapters will be 65. What will those players do then? What have they done. I suppose they can supplement out-leveling with out-gearing. But in most phases of game the quickest/easiest way to get entry gear was doing the cap content.
   
   
  
• I have no doubt that a more balanced difficulty curb will make the population as a whole better. People argued against 12xp because it would promote poor play. But really, there's only so much a player can learn about his class/spec if he doesn't have the basics down. The amount of time he spends doing it is mostly irrelevant. However, since they now can't power their way through the base game, they'll be forced to learn those basics.
   
   
  
• Having a consistent difficulty curb also balances quest rewards with their relative difficulty. I think they could take it further in this area. I was surprised to learn they didn't make the exploration quests rewards level-appropriate. Even if they don't make them repeatable as I suggested above, they should at least make the rewards scale.
   
  In fact, I'd go so far as to say all quest rewards would be scaled to true level.
  

 

While none of these examples may not be justification enough on their own, they do add up. And I'm sure there are other small reasons the devs has thought of as well. When criticizing a development change of this magnitude It's important consider the whole effect and not focus on one part.

[rafter]

I wasn't too keen on the idea of level syncing until i realized that even though your character is synced you'll still get rewards according to your actual level. At that point I no longer cared. I'm not in the habit of going around destroying old content because I think it's boring to faceroll the stuff, at least now I'll have a reason to go back and do all of it.

[Siarti]

Against unless optional. If the GSI can bolster your stats then it can reduce your stats also.

[-Spc]

Bolster happens in PvP, you have no choice to turn it off, do you? That is a much better comparison.

Yes but bolster does reverse thing, it gives you MAX level not lowest level.

So i am level 12 in pvp i am bolstered to level 60, not to level 1.

[Jadescythe]

I'm all for it. One of the best decisions the devs have ever made. And it absolutely must be mandatory. This is for several reasons. Most of them have already been talked about, but I'll list them:

 

 

• One more step in abating credit farming and slowing inflation.
   
  Not sure what you mean here. Much faster to farm credits in higher level areas today regardless
   
  
• Yes the WBs are a thing. People don't do them now because they're mostly meaningless. I suspect they plan to change this.
   
  Your guess at functionality changes aren't a real reason. Currently, no one does WBs unless they need an achievement.
   
  
• It's hard to say what it will do for PvP. I think, overall, it will be positive, but the one wild card is expertise. But that's a whole issue of its own.
   
  I assume you mean open world PvP as it does nothing for instanced. Open world will continue to be dead as there is no reason to do open world PvP.
   
  
• Also, griefing isn't just a PvP issue. There are plenty of ways high level characters can grief lower level players without ever being flagged.
   
  Are we talking about high level players coming to low planets just to kill your mobs? This is a non-issue today and would remain so in the future.
   
  
• It will help balance Conquest and make it work closer to what was intended.
   
  In what way? The only broken portion of Conquest was crafting and it's being reworked.
   
  
• Makes sense from a story/lore point. Yes you're 65 uber Sith outlander could go back and slaughter k'lor'slug eggs. But it's also six years later and Korriban got a makeover, but I guess Cormun is still there begging for help? The sync is just a pseudo time regression. It works best to this effect when everyone uses it.
   
  No it doesn't. Why is a level 65 outlander having the same difficult killing something that fresh recruits do?
   
  
• The edition of temp bars suggest to me they plan on adding more regular events. These will be more fun for everyone if levels are all equal. Zone events in other games are always a lot of fun until a high level comes along and spoils it for everyone. And, yes, it happens more than you'd think.
   
  Perhaps, but other sources would lead you to other conclusions if you choose to look into it.
   
  
• Along those same lines, I bet they'll start adding level-scaled dailies to all the planets. One easy solution would be to make four or five of the new exploration quests on each planet repeatable. Then add a daily cap. (Say 15 per char.) This would not only give people a lot more verity, but it would help spread the pop.
   
  What does this have to do with level sync? Daily areas already exist today.
   
  
• It promotes a more consistent difficulty curb throughout the course of the game. SWTOR is in a truly unique situation where it has storylines akin to those of single player RPG, but has to do so in a MMO environment. All of their single player games use mechanics to help control the level curb and prohibiting players from powering through games: regulate exp gains, scale pack level, size, difficulty, that sort of thing. But none of those work in a MMO environment. This was their [best] answer, even if only helps a little.
   
  They did this in the same way RPGs do, by making you travel to certain areas that match your level. It's not like the starter areas in single player games are scaled up if you go back to them.
   
  There are those who say they like to do story several levels above. But, in every form of the game, the story continues at cap. And, with such a small cap increase, I suspect much of the TFE chapters will be 65. What will those players do then? What have they done. I suppose they can supplement out-leveling with out-gearing. But in most phases of game the quickest/easiest way to get entry gear was doing the cap content.
   
   
  
• I have no doubt that a more balanced difficulty curb will make the population as a whole better. People argued against 12xp because it would promote poor play. But really, there's only so much a player can learn about his class/spec if he doesn't have the basics down. The amount of time he spends doing it is mostly irrelevant. However, since they now can't power their way through the base game, they'll be forced to learn those basics.
   
  The issue was not in content difficulty, but in time played. If you hit a new level every 15 minutes, it's hard to get an understanding of your skill tree and new abilities as they evolve.
   
  
• Having a consistent difficulty curb also balances quest rewards with their relative difficulty. I think they could take it further in this area. I was surprised to learn they didn't make the exploration quests rewards level-appropriate. Even if they don't make them repeatable as I suggested above, they should at least make the rewards scale.
   
  Rewards scale based on actual level with level sync, so this is already in place
   
  In fact, I'd go so far as to say all quest rewards would be scaled to true level.
  

 

While none of these examples may not be justification enough on their own, they do add up. And I'm sure there are other small reasons the devs has thought of as well. When criticizing a development change of this magnitude It's important consider the whole effect and not focus on one part.

 

Most of your points seem either irrelevant to level sync or don't support the need for it.

[teabags]

oh my god, nobody has thought of this, you are so original! Stop posting about level sync, developers have asked you to stop making new ones.

yes..gods forbid they find out how many are upset by it and by them not even asking their paying player base.

 

i for one, don't want it...and not for most of the reasons these BW suckups say

[teabags]

I see someone ignored BWs request to quit making new threads on the matter and discuss it in the already existing tens of millions of threads.

 

Really.

 

Also, I vote FOR sync. There you go.

 

Maybe I'll go make a new topic now "Poll: Should people start using existing topics on lvl sync"...

 

we can tell by the first few words that you vote FOR sync..and it's obvious why they don't want people to keep talking about it

[Uruare]

I like everything about it except the mandatory aspect.

 

It should be a toggle.

[YodaUnrea]

I DONT WANT IT!!!!!!!!!!! It's a stupid idea. This is not Guild Wars 2.