Why Level Sync needs to be Mandatory!

[Uruare]

ITT: Fun Police Chief OP confused his personal opinions for objective facts and leads yet another Custer's Charge straight into being terminally wrong about everything.

 

 

There are no good reasons for it to be mandatory other than that Bioware says so because reasons™. We're almost certainly never going to know those reasons because we're to consider ourselves fortunate that they occasionally evidence signs of interactive life at all outside PR marionette shows of being danced around like muppets with marketing's hand up their bums at public events.

 

Bioware does whatever Bioware dang well pleases. They don't speak or care about data that hasn't been formatted into whatever statistical formats their metrics occur in.

 

Most of them were people once and probably like to still try to be in their own private lives, but that's never going to matter here.

 

There is no reasoning with the entity of Bioware. You'll be just as successful attempting to negotiate with a virus - you can't do that with words. It's a reactive entity that will recoil from sufficient deterrence in the rigid margins of things it's capable of being affected by, and its behavior otherwise never deviates from its aggressive pursuit of the money it requires to sustain itself and reproduce.

 

Trying to address the entity if Bioware as though anything even remotely resembling human value systems and reasoning patterns play any meaningful role in what it's actually doing is essentially as fruitless as anthropomorphizing a car - yes, it often has people in it, and it was made by people, but you can't reason with it and it's incapable of comprehending anything.

 

And there's no point in attempting to reason with the people that are allowed to interact with any freedom of regularity with we, the unwashed masses - of they're allowed anything resembling free interaction with us, they're not allowed to know anything worthwhile much before we are and they chiefly exist as a firewall, both to fend is off and to isolate the more important resources.

 

Kind've like skin, if you will; people like the community team exist solely to protect Bioware's more vital organs from us. They're the ultimately disposable front line that has to suffer the social consequences of all of Bioware's decisions while having virtually no special foreknowledge of or ability to influence what those even are.

 

Kind've like how your skin has very little reference over what your brain is planning.

 

For something like Bioware, it's vital that they protect their decision-making assets from the public, chiefly because they'd often go neurotic and implode if they had to face the consequences of their choices and actually shoulder the eternally diverse array of feedback anything there do generates, for better and worse alike.

 

The people that make the bombs can never be the people that drop the bombs, or they'll never make bombs again.

 

The people that make the decisions in governments to enact policies that will hurt millions of people can never see the effects of those policies firsthand, or they won't make policies anymore.

 

In a company like Bioware, great pains are taken to ensure that the vital organs are protected from the real consequences of their choices. Ultimately, even the devs are expendable, because they're not the organs most vital that such companies will kill themselves trying to protect.

 

It's the executives. By and large, it's also the shareholders. The people controlling the decision makers will sacrifice anyone and anything they deem less important than themselves most of the time in most predictable situations.

 

So much to say that even if the devs care, they can't do anything about anything. They make what they're told to make. They probably get a say in what their developmental milestones will be, but probably not the executive decision that cements it.

 

Nobody here will ever be allowed under normal circumstances to talk to anyone that has any actual decision making power at Bioware. Even if those few wanted to talk to us (very doubtful), they wouldn't be allowed to without a vetted script and a long list of off-limits topics.

 

What's the purpose of this exposition?

 

I see a lot of people so frequently trying to address Bioware directly in this forum; to reason with them, to plead some cases or position upon something.

 

We're all here to chiefly talk to eachother, and it really doesn't matter what we say to eachother in the end; the company skin will filter out anything that their roles stipulate should never be allowed to get further because that's what they exist to do.

 

They also exist to take all the heat and deal with all the friction, and day to day, month to month, those are the only 'Bioware people' you'll ever ever maybe occasionally interact with.

 

Probably 99% or more of this forum is just noise is the void. Nobody with any decision making power at Bioware is going to read any of this and care for one second what you, me or all of us combined think about anything at all if the metrics they measure macrotrends in don't reflect whatever's being said.

 

They don't care. No more than you care about the bacteria on your skin. You're probably aware that you have lots, but you probably don't know what kinds or even know which ones are helping you and which are trying to kill you. You're about as likely to try talking to the germs on your hands as Bioware's decision makers are to talk to us, or to even perceive what we say as communication of any meaningful sort at all.

 

They don't hear us until we're so amassed in a negative fashion that it actually hurts them. Mass Effect 3 ending debacle made a good showing of what it takes to get Bioware's attention.

 

So, it really doesn't matter what shrine here thinks about level sync or anything much at all. They're generally like us better if we stopped this whole pesky thinking thing and just threw money at whatever there felt like giving us, and while they might 'listen to feedback', they don't mean yours it mine individually.

 

They math the trends of millions over months and listen to that.

 

Is that smart of them? Has its pros and cons.

 

Is it good for us? Nope. Not even little. And that will never matter.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Uruare

[Quraswren]

The issue here is that most people are simply missing the point.. The OP is right in a sense, although he could have done better to explain it..

 

Example:

 

All the men and women in the military have no level.. If anyone picks up a weapon they would do the same damage as anyone else with the same weapon.. Because there is no level in the military and rank is only a title.. The problem is the leveling system itself..

 

Just going to snip your post there. That is incorrect. Training and experience are the levels in the military. While both might have the same weapon. The more well trained will for nearly all occasions win out.

 

No different than my sith Sorc going back to DK. Sure the weapons should do the same but she should block, dodge and generally be well over the top of any acolyte there. Not just a couple levels above them. She's a Dark Lord on the council for a reason.

 

However, this is a fantasy game where laser swords should nearly kill you in one hit and thats not happening either but trying to bring a real world example into this will pretty much always fail.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Quraswren

[SithKoriandr]

Just going to snip your post there. That is incorrect. Training and experience are the levels in the military. While both might have the same weapon. The more well trained will for nearly all occasions win out.

 

No different than my sith Sorc going back to DK. Sure the weapons should do the same but she should block, dodge and generally be well over the top of any acolyte there. Not just a couple levels above them. She's a Dark Lord on the council for a reason.

 

However, this is a fantasy game where laser swords should nearly kill you in one hit and thats not happening either but trying to bring a real world example into this will pretty much always fail.

 

Exactly!

 

If we go by the idea that all weapons do the same, then really, there's no reason for group content, my Sith/Jedi should be able to handle Malgus on their own. Pffft...the Emperor isn't that powerful, I have force abilities and a lightsaber.

[ChaosIsGolden]

Honestly you make a lot of valid points, and while at first I wasn't too happy with Level Sync, admittedly I totally support it for one aspect. HIGH LEVEL GANKERS, on yavin its never been an issue for me I run a scoundrel dps and have my comp tricked out in pvp gear. So I generally survive any attacks from opposing players, however there are so many people that run about 10 to 15 levels higher returning to worlds like Tatooine, Alderaan, etc. just to gank low level players that are questing, its pathetic.

 

You'll probably say that's the risk of running around flagged or on a PVP server, but I see it more as Trolls feeding their egos because they can't hack it against a player that's the same level.

 

So while I'll miss a few aspects, honestly I'm happy to see level sync added to the game.

[Philmors]

Why would you NOT want level sync? I haven't seen a single valid reason why level sync should be removed, because all of those are counterable.

 

Maybe try reading and responding with a point for point analysis and we can have a rational discussion

 

Not to troll, but I haven't seen any valid reasoning. IF you'd be willing to provide it I'd be willing to have the conversation

 

Well most of the reasons are pretty greedy from what I've seen like they want to be able to solo lowbie quest areas, flashpoints, heroics, or the old world bosses.

[Kingsbount]

Well most of the reasons are pretty greedy from what I've seen like they want to be able to solo lowbie quest areas, flashpoints, heroics, or the old world bosses.

 

Probably becouse people... i don't know... EARNED this right?

They put time and effort to become stronger.

Thats their RIGHT to be overpowered. Becouse thats why they worked so hard.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well most of the reasons are pretty greedy from what I've seen like they want to be able to solo lowbie quest areas, flashpoints, heroics, or the old world bosses.

 

And that comment just tells us that you either haven't bothered to read, or don't care to acknowledge, all the posts listing reasons why people might be opposed to mandatory level sync.

[RohanLanglois]

i m surprise there is so bad comments on this,

i m seeing good points (to me) for Planet Level Sync ,

-revisiting planets wont be boring cause i ll have to care where i walk,,,

-for the same reason above, helping lower guildie ll be fun,, (how boring to me can be for a lvl 6o now to help lvl10..),

-for those who do participate conquest planets, wont be so easy to do some lower lvl heroics to get easy points,

-more interactive between peoples from any levels on any planets, how many lvl60 right now on hutta, voss.. ?

very few, so if you dont go on those planets now, you wont be affected so much in future if you just still not go, no?

- i bet we ll see more of any levels anywhere on galaxy after 4.0, sound interesting to me,

-without Planet Level Sync , and more and more levels this game have the more spread out the players are ,

people dont mix much if big level difference

-much of lvl 60 players are like in a dead end cause they dont do much FP or OP or RP , 4.0 give the chance to

have much things to do , get on your ship and choose wich planet you ll visit today..you can go back to complete

planets bonus series or heroics with a challenge to doing it, (it make more realistic)

-only thing i can see i ll loose with Planet Level Sync is the abilitie to kill everything wih one shot..

-anyway i m pretty sure a lvl65 with all unlocked abilities and good gear , who go back on Hutt to do some contents, will still be more powerfull than anyone there who just lvling a new char ...

 

good day everyone, (and i apologize for any mistakes, english is 2nd language to me)

Edited October 4, 2015 by RohanLanglois
typo mistakes

[DmdShiva]

I don't consider being 6 levels above content, face-roll; far from it, and I'm hoping that we will be so we can all solo the H2+s if we want to, but also get a group if we WANT to, not HAVE to.

 

I will point out that the implementation as described does not properly address one of the things that level-syncing is supposed to enable -- taking your high-level character and playing with your friends and their low-level characters.

 

You've talked your friends into installing SWTOR, and they're logging in and creating their first characters; they've picked Jedi Knight for their class because lightsabers. You take your level-60 Guardian and travel to Tython to join them and help them level, and you're level-synced to 15, five over the planetary target... and they're level 1, so when you team, you're fourteen levels higher, and they don't get XP. Oops. So much for playing together. The same problem will occur each time you advance to a new planet; because the level-syncing is done to the planet level and not the team member level, you can still wind up with teams where the lowbies don't get XP.

Edited October 4, 2015 by DmdShiva

[SithEmpress]

Maybe it's been answered, but how are the higher level bonus areas going to be handled on the planets?

 

I actual brought this up in another thread, but so far haven't found an answer. Maybe the higher cap level will be enough to include the bonus area? Maybe those areas will have different down scaling level so you will be higher then the rest of the planets but I think that a long shoot. So I can only assume you'll have the level range or it be down leveled to fit in the planet. Other mission they haven't address are GSI/Seeker and dailies such as Belsavie where the planet max and dailies don't match up. I wish we'd get an answer to these questions. This is why I'm more worried about content being bugged or players finding way to exploit the bolster system as they have done before. They struggled to handle the bolster system back when they had it on Illum and in pvp, so I have a hard time believing this new feature won't have some serious issues. Finger crossed they did some serious testing and it won't be a buggy mess.

 

The poster above make a great point about the level range still making it harder to group with low level players. Of course they might have changed the level ranges to allow for the max level differences.

Edited October 4, 2015 by SithEmpress

[GrandLordMenace]

Probably becouse people... i don't know... EARNED this right?

They put time and effort to become stronger.

Thats their RIGHT to be overpowered. Becouse thats why they worked so hard.

 

So you'd rather faceroll old content than give bioware the future ability to develop newer content on old planets that's level neutral that anyone can participate in?

 

Seems legit.

[Shipwright]

I don't consider being 6 levels above content, face-roll; far from it, and I'm hoping that we will be so we can all solo the H2+s if we want to, but also get a group if we WANT to, not HAVE to.

 

From what I can see in the dev post, as opposed to the live stream...one will not be any higher than the max level of the planet leveling range, let alone maybe 5-6 levels.

 

I'm ok with this level sync, but I lost 8 or 9 so far from the guild I am in because they specifically dislike not being able to over level a class boss by 2 or 3 levels if they're having rough time. Maybe they go 5 levels? I don't know, but in any case they are done. These are casual players and they're not looking for everything to be a "tooth and nail", winning by a hair's breadth event. So, they have a rough time....they level a bit and go back.

 

2 had tried Guild wars, where i have a bunch of characters, and they hated the system there ( which is a lot like this one we are getting). Kinda burned out on GW2 myself but that is another story.

 

So, they like to out level a bit and no longer can. That is how they feel, and that's that. It is this single consequence of the system that completely turns them off. They can't do that anymore and went to where they can play how they like (some already had characters in another game, others have followed them).

 

Anyway, it hardly even matters why (although not one of mentioned this alleged hobby of "killing grey mobs"), except for the fact they have no interest in the system and so they are gone.

 

There will be bad with the good.

[JourrnoRush]

So you'd rather faceroll old content than give bioware the future ability to develop newer content on old planets that's level neutral that anyone can participate in?

 

Seems legit.

 

People are just mad they can't do certain dailies in 10 minutes, so this will cut into their credits. However, they forget that by just using their class correctly and/or bringing a *gasp* friend, they can still do it.

[Max_Killjoy]

So you'd rather faceroll old content

 

You'd rather keep falling back on that tired and disproven canard than address people's actual concerns and reasoning?

[Bakakiba]

 

There are no good reasons for it to be mandatory other than that Bioware says so because reasons™.

 

That is the only reason that counts.

[Quraswren]

So you'd rather faceroll old content than give bioware the future ability to develop newer content on old planets that's level neutral that anyone can participate in?

 

Seems legit.

 

Seeing as how they can accomplish that without forcing everyone to down level sure.

 

IF you're 45 or higher you can go do gree or the rakghoul stuff. If you're level 15 or higher, jump into KDY. There level adjustment mechanics work as is.

 

Create any inside or outside area and new content you want, bolster or down leveling occurs as needed. Rest of the game goes along like it has been with new things to do just the same.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Quraswren

[Bakakiba]

I did put you on ignore last night, because of this comment, which is of a sort that I've lost all patience for in the last couple of weeks.

 

 

Welcome to the club, JoeeyyMagzz!

 

We have cookies!

[well]

Which is the direction I hear the people who are no sold on down leveling are going. There not asking it to be removed for everyone, just work in an optional choice. Like 12X or PVP. It doesn't need to be forced on every player in the game.

 

From the beginning of it's design it should have been as an option and never released till it was. That way, just as you say, others can play as they like and the rest can play as they like. Pretty much then accepted by all.

 

That is it. For some reason some can't accept that others want to play the game different then them. As long as someone plays within the guidelines of the game then it shouldn't matter to anyone else.

[Bakakiba]

That is it. For some reason some can't accept that others want to play the game different then them. As long as someone plays within the guidelines of the game then it shouldn't matter to anyone else.

 

Level sync is the new guideline.

[Quraswren]

Level sync is the new guideline.

 

Clearly but not hard to point out one version of game play has been working for years now in this game to success because after all, it is based on a leveling up game and the new version can barely get off the ground without negative feedback to make it optional because gamers know getting down leveled isn't something they want all the time, every day and the only way to escape it is to not do what they have been doing.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Quraswren

[Juromaro]

OP, while I agree with everything you say, you can't get the response you are hoping for. The Anti-Mandatory and Pro-Mandatory will never agree. People don't like to be told how they can enjoy a game, regardless if it's better as a whole or not.

 

I for one don't care if it's mandatory or not, if it's mandatory I'll use it, if it's not then I won't simply because I don't have to. The thing that is upsetting the 95% of the 10 people here that are against it is they don't want to be forced to use it, period. It's how they want to play the game so be it, I still think Bioware shouldn't buckle like they did with ME3, and I also think if they do buckle then they should make it where unless you use the sync you can't get drops, credit, money, exp for any content that isn't within 7 levels of your current level.

 

But again they won't like that because that is me telling them how to play. Bioware either needs to have it mandatory or not at all it's simple as that.

[Teladis]

Clearly but not hard to point out one version of game play has been working for years now in this game to success because after all, it is based on a leveling up game and the new version can barely get off the ground without negative feedback to make it optional because gamers know getting down leveled isn't something they want all the time, every day and the only way to escape it is to not do what they have been doing.

 

MMO players should be ignored most of the time to be honest. Wildstar designed a game that the so-called MMO players asked for,and look what it got them.

 

The problem is that most people are selfish. They think about what they want and not willing to budge on it. Even if it is for the good of the game, and to help get new people back into it. They want the mmo to be design around how they want to play, and are not willing to accept things even if they don't like it.

 

That is why Devs take things we say with a grain of salt until it is tested fully.

[pegasussgc]

For the people talking about how it will make doing missions impossible for them because they can no longer overlevel, you should go here: http://www.dulfy.net Select Swtor and look at the guides. I am not expecting everyone to master their rotation, but if you can get even a very basic idea of how to play your class you will have no issues at all with missions.

 

For example, you should probably use more than 1 attack over the course of a fight. Another example, don't go afk during a fight. Yet another example, equip a weapon if you haven't already. And final example, interrupt. With those four tips, you should be able to take on anything thrown at you, downscaled or not.

 

Seriously people, it's not hard.

Edited October 4, 2015 by pegasussgc

[Kingsbount]

For the people talking about how it will make doing missions impossible for them because they can no longer overlevel, you should go here: http://www.dulfy.net Select Swtor and look at the guides. I am not expecting everyone to master their rotation, but if you can get even a very basic idea of how to play your class you will have no issues at all with missions.

 

For example, you should probably use more than 1 attack over the course of a fight. Another example, don't go afk during a fight. Yet another example, equip a weapon if you haven't already. And final example, interrupt. With those four tips, you should be able to take on anything thrown at you, downscaled or not.

 

Seriously people, it's not hard.

 

True words from casual crafter/money farmer.

 

No, dear sir or madam.

Knowing your rotation will not speed you up or make you kill mobs faster than without downgrade.

Only overleveling will make money/materials farm faster.

 

If you think otherwise - you are blind and blunt.

[Quraswren]

MMO players should be ignored most of the time to be honest. Wildstar designed a game that the so-called MMO players asked for,and look what it got them.

 

Incorrect. Ex wow people wanted to design an MMo for hardcore people when the MMO players have said for ages there not the ones carrying the games. It was going to stumble before it ever got start off their design premise alone.

 

The problem is that most people are selfish. They think about what they want and not willing to budge on it. Even if it is for the good of the game, and to help get new people back into it. They want the mmo to be design around how they want to play, and are not willing to accept things even if they don't like it.

I have no doubt that is the case many times but when asking for optional for everyone. That really doesn't fall into the category you're trying to place it in. Not in this instance anyway. It seems most are OK with the idea of down leveling, just not mandatory for everyone 24/7. The request is being made to get better things for more people, not individual or one sided. Something that catches the most gamers. Not really selfish at all.

 

That is why Devs take things we say with a grain of salt until it is tested fully.

 

Yea well, they have teir own goals and it's not always whats best for the players either. Time and time again players are berated with well do anything for the path of least resistance. BW and game companies are no different.

Why should they do more when they can get away with doing less. No new FP, no new OPS, rehashing 4 year old heroics, no new PVP. Staple areas that you should not leave out yet they did just to push for story that will be consumed faster then anything they had at launch and that blew there"F"ing minds if you go back and watch/read clips about how bad it got after launch.

 

They'd actually be smart in taking the gamers ideas a bit more seriously, there the ones playing and paying. After 4 years they want to turn a leveling based game on it's head. We'll thats not all that great for many in a game already riddled with problems from engine to how slow they are fixing things if they fix it at all.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Quraswren