MusicRider Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Lastly, we have rearranged how we distribute ratings on items. Now, Power and defense share the first rating slot on modifications, while the rest of the stats (Accuracy, Alacrity, Critical, Absorb, and Shield) will share the second rating slot. Can't say I'm happy about this competition in stats for sin/shad tanks. Edited October 2, 2015 by MusicRider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Can't say I'm happy about this competition in stats for sin/shad tanks. For PvP at least, it means throw all of your mods into power. Get all of your shield/absorb from enhancements. I'm fine with this. For PvE, I don't see too much changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well for pve I do play with a high shield/absorb build, so this change will half them and double defence; but sin tank rely too much on shield/absorb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) For PvP at least, it means throw all of your mods into power. Get all of your shield/absorb from enhancements. I'm fine with this. For PvE, I don't see too much changing. For pvp why even stack shield and absorb anyway? Better off stacking health, crit and power Edited October 3, 2015 by allexj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 For pvp why even stack shield and absorb anyway? Better off stacking health, crit and power Well I personally wouldn't, but for those who aren't comfortable yet with running the tank stats listed in my guide, they might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allexj Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Well I personally wouldn't, but for those who aren't comfortable yet with running the tank stats listed in my guide, they might. I was sure you ran a high ends, power surge Edited October 3, 2015 by allexj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I was sure you ran a high ends, power surge Yea I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truevalon Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 For PvP at least, it means throw all of your mods into power. Get all of your shield/absorb from enhancements. I'm fine with this. For PvE, I don't see too much changing. For PVE it means a considerable increase in spikiness. Damage spikes is what kills tanks. This is a very bad change for sin tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 For PVE it means a considerable increase in spikiness. Damage spikes is what kills tanks. This is a very bad change for sin tanks. That's my concern hence why the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 High endurance/power build has always been the tradition build for all tanks since the ages of ranked warzones due to the mechanics of guard. Some teams even used to ran two tanks, one pure tree tank in high end/power and a guardian vigilance in tank stance hybrid and in dps gear. But anyway, ranked warzones are ancient history nowadays but a high end/pow build is nothing new. In fact with arenas and tank tunnelling being a perfectly viable and popular strategy there could be put forward a case for playing in tank gear. Respeccing is not allowed but re-gearing is so it is good for a tank to have both a damage reduction gear as well as a high endurance one, which to be honest it would be better to be in dps gear with a shield for higher damage capable tanks like pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Never said it was anything new, just stated that it would propel it's viability considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutoCocker Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) For PvP at least, it means throw all of your mods into power. Get all of your shield/absorb from enhancements. I'm fine with this. For PvE, I don't see too much changing. There are no longer going to be shield/abso enhancements. Only def/shield and def/abso. Same with ear/implants. Edited October 3, 2015 by AutoCocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyalenn Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Yeah I'm in a similar boat, not liking these changes at all. However do remember we're getting 3% shield, up to 2% absorb and better uptime on Dark Ward. The obvious answer is just to take what you're given and work with it. Which in this case will likely mean stacking endurance. You might even consider running the power mods instead of the defence ones... I'm actually most worried that the tank relics seem to be mastery/defence without any endurance.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisbugged Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 yea, i run very minimal defense on my shadow tank(which cleared revan hard mode in july) and stack shield/absorb. I think i only run 400 defense rating atm. The reason behind this is because i want to reduce spikiness in alot of the strong K/E moves from bosses (e.g. saber charge from revan), and especially for that fight, consistency is much more important. Higher defense rating as a result of the new gear types may increase chance to avoid the dmg altogether but will make tanks alot spikier and less consistent, which isn't ideal for progression pve imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Never said it was anything new, just stated that it would propel it's viability considerably. The "nothing new" was in support to your guide not to shoot it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 There are no longer going to be shield/abso enhancements. Only def/shield and def/abso. Same with ear/implants. I think it could be argued that since there will be a larger stat pool, we will have roughly the same amount of Shield/Absorb even if we have to divide our enhancements among the two stats. For PvE at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 yea, i run very minimal defense on my shadow tank(which cleared revan hard mode in july) and stack shield/absorb. I think i only run 400 defense rating atm. The reason behind this is because i want to reduce spikiness in alot of the strong K/E moves from bosses (e.g. saber charge from revan), and especially for that fight, consistency is much more important. Higher defense rating as a result of the new gear types may increase chance to avoid the dmg altogether but will make tanks alot spikier and less consistent, which isn't ideal for progression pve imo. Yes. These changes affect shadow tanks more than the others, to the best of my knowledge with respect to the other two tank classes, which have baseline higher damage reduction than shadows. Shadows compensate for that by having a more effective shield/absorb build. Bottom line, from the info given it hurts all tanks, but shadows more I think. PS: Where is KBN when needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The "nothing new" was in support to your guide not to shoot it down. Accept my apology then, as I've grown jaded into thinking that every post is negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyalenn Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I think it could be argued that since there will be a larger stat pool, we will have roughly the same amount of Shield/Absorb even if we have to divide our enhancements among the two stats. For PvE at least. The stat pool will only be larger because the level is higher, comparative to level the stat pool will remain the same. You might see a small increase in full BiS gear but nothing major. On the other hand we will be forced to spend a considerable chunk (roughly 40% minimum) of available mitigation stats on Defence. Right now I am spending about 6% of my stats on Defence. I understand that they didn't like people ignoring Defence but forcing it onto every bit of gear is a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't help anyone. Edited October 3, 2015 by Fyalenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) The stat pool will only be larger because the level is higher, comparative to level the stat pool will remain the same. You might see a small increase in full BiS gear but nothing major. On the other hand we will be forced to spend a considerable chunk (roughly 40% minimum) of available mitigation stats on Defence. Right now I am spending about 6% of my stats on Defence. I understand that they didn't like people ignoring Defence but forcing it onto every bit of gear is a knee-jerk reaction that doesn't help anyone. To be honest, I would like to see them rework defence to also allow you to resist Force and Tech damage in addition to white damage. If it proves to be too strong they could always diminish the returns on large sums of it. That would make defence both useful in PvP while also making it more useful in PvE without being the only stat to stack due to a large enough diminishing return. But alas, I'm but a dreamer. Edited October 3, 2015 by Jinre_the_Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) Accept my apology then, as I've grown jaded into thinking that every post is negative Yeah no worries. Forums and writing can create misunderstanding easier and in case it was also partially my bad as the expression "nothing new" usually has negative meaning. However, in this case it was the opposite and positive cause you take something that has been long validated by many experts and you present and extend it in your own way in your guide (i.e. you followed a common academic practice). Edited October 4, 2015 by MusicRider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 So, in lieu of KBN speaking up here for reasons that may not be apparent, I'm going to jump in. This is going to hurt a bit in PvE. I'd be more worried if you were playing a Powertech tank, but it's still going to hurt us. Defense is a decent stat for us, yes and more of the bosses have defendable attacks (and large ones at that!) with the reintroduction of all the old operations at level cap. However, our top two stats have just been made less useful because both a) we have more defense, which naturally makes shield and absorb less effective, and b) we are losing a bunch of shield, which makes absorb's usefulness fall, which makes shield's usefulness fall a little less, and so on. I think we'll still do well due to naturally high shield chances, I just think we'd be better off with the old gearing scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 So, in lieu of KBN speaking up here for reasons that may not be apparent, I'm going to jump in. This is going to hurt a bit in PvE. I'd be more worried if you were playing a Powertech tank, but it's still going to hurt us. Defense is a decent stat for us, yes and more of the bosses have defendable attacks (and large ones at that!) with the reintroduction of all the old operations at level cap. However, our top two stats have just been made less useful because both a) we have more defense, which naturally makes shield and absorb less effective, and b) we are losing a bunch of shield, which makes absorb's usefulness fall, which makes shield's usefulness fall a little less, and so on. I think we'll still do well due to naturally high shield chances, I just think we'd be better off with the old gearing scheme. What's the "old gearing scheme"? As far back as I remember sin tanks were always with a high shield/absorb build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted October 5, 2015 Share Posted October 5, 2015 Yes. These changes affect shadow tanks more than the others, to the best of my knowledge with respect to the other two tank classes, which have baseline higher damage reduction than shadows. Shadows compensate for that by having a more effective shield/absorb build. Bottom line, from the info given it hurts all tanks, but shadows more I think. PS: Where is KBN when needed? Technically, this affects vanguards more than shadows. Shadows have some nice properties in their mitigation (especially Kinetic Bulwark) that push-pull against defense in a rather unique way. High defense builds aren't the end of the world for them. Here's the more salient point though: ToS/Rav have been the highest F/T damage PvE content since NiM EV. Seriously. Everything prior to this point has been significantly richer in the M/R damage, especially the really hard fights in S&V and TfB. This implies in and of itself that we would already be running much more defense-heavy builds than we currently do on live, assuming that Bioware doesn't alter the damage distributions in scaling the content to 65 (they altered TfB's distribution going from 50 to 55 in 2.0, so I wouldn't hold my breath). In general, this is an indirect nerf. We certainly won't be augmenting defense anymore, and I'd be surprised if the Fortunate Redoubt relic remained BiS. The sky isn't falling for PvE though. PvPers are really the ones who are being screwed here. Defense is far from useless in PvP, but I tend to agree with those who are planning on stacking DPS mods/enhs on their shadow tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicRider Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Technically, this affects vanguards more than shadows. Shadows have some nice properties in their mitigation (especially Kinetic Bulwark) that push-pull against defense in a rather unique way. High defense builds aren't the end of the world for them. Here's the more salient point though: ToS/Rav have been the highest F/T damage PvE content since NiM EV. Seriously. Everything prior to this point has been significantly richer in the M/R damage, especially the really hard fights in S&V and TfB. This implies in and of itself that we would already be running much more defense-heavy builds than we currently do on live, assuming that Bioware doesn't alter the damage distributions in scaling the content to 65 (they altered TfB's distribution going from 50 to 55 in 2.0, so I wouldn't hold my breath). In general, this is an indirect nerf. We certainly won't be augmenting defense anymore, and I'd be surprised if the Fortunate Redoubt relic remained BiS. The sky isn't falling for PvE though. PvPers are really the ones who are being screwed here. Defense is far from useless in PvP, but I tend to agree with those who are planning on stacking DPS mods/enhs on their shadow tanks. Thanks. Hmm, seems I was under the false impression (since I have hardly played the other two tanks) that shadows rely more on shield/absorb for both spikiness and similar damage taken profiles with jug and pt tanks, while the other two have higher damage reduction even after shadows kinetic bulwark and shadow protection but their shield/absorb is less effective. PS: Yes have barely played the other two tanks as personally I find them boring . Edited October 5, 2015 by MusicRider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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