Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Princess_Chibi]

Every MMO out has changed for one point or another. For a MMO to grow changes like this are needed. No long term MMOs ever stay near the same. From UO to Rift. Each mmo gets core game play changes. That is the very nature of mmos. If you can't adjust to changes like this. MMOs might not be for you.

 

No one is asking for things to remain the same. I'm stating that ONE VERY SPECIFIC CHANGE is illogical and based on the present state of the game and potential future iterations is unintuitive at best and unnecessary at worst. You're making the argument that I'm against change; that's an assumption and it's wrong. I'm against changes for the sake of making a change; there's been no explanation or justification for the change and based on all other factors it's a poor decision.

 

I like my high road. Logic makes me feel all good inside.

 

You're not using logic. Your scenarios are circumstantial, your arguments are specious and your conclusions lack support and definition... You are a poor, poor scientist Doctor Venkman.

 

One word from me, and my group will try it. You would not know about such things I know.

 

I love when you prove me right, please continue. This statement clearly shines a light on your arguments being little more than egotistical self-stroking. There's neither proof to justify your statement, nor does it hold any bearing on the conversation. The first rule of debate is to speak to the information, you've made a personal statement, and no one cares.

 

I don't care if they find it unfair. I don't even care if they leave.

 

So you're NOT concerned about fairness, glad we can find common ground on that point. And you don't care about people leaving, so overall health and success of the game isn't a concern. Your goals and interests are becoming quite clear at this point, continue.

 

What I care about is that if Bioware wants to make this game better. It does not need to listen to comments from people who don't want to adjust to changes even if they don't like it.

 

You don't know that this change is for the better, nor do you know BW's justifications for making it. You've presented zero evidence demonstrating the change will improve or otherwise benefit the game, and YOU YOURSELF stated above you don't care about the fairness or the success of the game, including other players within it. You can't claim the game might be better while stating you don't care about its health and success.

 

So allow me to draw an observation based on the facts. Bioware is making an ill-informed change without engaging its community, you have decided this change benefits you, your wife and one other person (apparently this is equivalent to a "gaming community") and since 3 people out of a game with millions of subscribers appears to support this change, Bioware should disregard a quite sizeable volume of negative feedback (whether it's be a vocal minority or not is irrelevant, negative feedback on the forums can be quantified, your support cannot beyond the three people you've mentioned).

 

Allow me to revise my previous statement: Your arguments are self-serving, ill-educated, illogical and are not stated to improve the success of the game or the players within its population, by your own admission.

 

I can do this alll day.

 

I believe you. But much like presidential candidates, repeating the same unsupportable talking points throughout the entire campaign wins you neither supporters nor helps achieve any beneficial goal. At this point, you're arguing just to argue; I've simply pulled apart your statements so that everyone else can clearly see it as well.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Princess_Chibi

[Mikahrtwo]

Will down leveling revive SWTOR? Not a chance. It's not that interesting as a game feature nor does it make old content interesting after 4 years. Not really the leveling up game gamers signed on for.

 

Noone found ops and fps interesting until now, so there you go.

[Teladis]

No one is asking for things to remain the same. I'm stating that ONE VERY SPECIFIC CHANGE is illogical and based on the present state of the game and potential future iterations is unintuitive at best and unnecessary at worst. You're making the argument that I'm against change; that's an assumption and it's wrong. I'm against changes for the sake of making a change; there's been no explanation or justification for the change and based on all other factors it's a poor decision.

 

Oh man the laughs keep on coming. The system will get tweaked, and a balance across the map seems to have been done. (already saw hint of it on the stream with the heroic changes. Just because you don't like a change does not mean that change is not going to be balance around. What it is called is common sense. I know it is rough for you.

You're not using logic. Your scenarios are circumstantial, your arguments are specious and your conclusions lack support and definition... You are a poor, poor scientist Doctor Venkman.

 

Oh man, I don't even know what to say about this one. Every point I have made is true. About MMO changes. YES core changes to game play elements much bigger than this many mmos go through. All you have done is say. "You are wrong wahhh"

 

 

I love when you prove me right, please continue. This statement clearly shines a light on your arguments being little more than egotistical self-stroking. There's neither proof to justify your statement, nor does it hold any bearing on the conversation. The first rule of debate is to speak to the information, you've made a personal statement, and no one cares.

 

You mean just like all the posts you have been doing? You asked me a question, and I answered it. Now that you don't like that answer. You are going to say "no proof". Here is a little something for you kiddo. You can't turn a argument around like that because you know that my friends are not going to sub to this game just to put you in place. They have me for that.

So you're NOT concerned about fairness, glad we can find common ground on that point. And you don't care about people leaving, so overall health and success of the game isn't a concern. Your goals and interests are becoming quite clear at this point, continue.

 

Life is not fair. If it was, Bioware would not have release this bad of a game. If it was fair, they would have listen to testers at the start. Bioware lost a lot of respect from mmo fans, and bioware fans alike. Just because some of you like the game way it is now, does not mean it is a consider a good game on the market. The changes happen for a reason. I know it hurts. You will get over it.

 

You don't know that this change is for the better, nor do you know BW's justifications for making it. You've presented zero evidence demonstrating the change will improve or otherwise benefit the game, and YOU YOURSELF stated above you don't care about the fairness or the success of the game, including other players within it. You can't claim the game might be better while stating you don't care about its health and success.

 

So allow me to draw an observation based on the facts. Bioware is making an ill-informed change without engaging its community, you have decided this change benefits you, your wife and one other person (apparently this is equivalent to a "gaming community") and since 3 people out of a game with millions of subscribers appears to support this change, Bioware should disregard a quite sizeable volume of negative feedback (whether it's be a vocal minority or not is irrelevant, negative feedback on the forums can be quantified, your support cannot beyond the three people you've mentioned).

 

Allow me to revise my previous statement: Your arguments are self-serving, ill-educated, illogical and are not stated to improve the success of the game or the players within its population, by your own admission.

 

The laughs never end with you. Oh man, this is amazing. Hold on let me make this comment on a level that even you can figure out.

 

 

MMOS always change. I know this is tough, stay with me now. Because MMOS change all the time, with changes like this. It is a very safe bet that it will get adjusted and added on to in the future. I know that is tough to wrap your head around. I am sure you can figure it out. The change happen for a reason. because pre 4.0 the game is not doing so hot for them. So they are changing things gasp.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Teladis

[Quraswren]

Noone found ops and fps interesting until now, so there you go.

 

To hear BW talk about FP and OPS there is a reason we're not getting any new ones.

 

BW apparently claims not enough cared for them so back to story as a main drive. Screw you if your guild did and other of course but I think that is a mistake in their design for launching this expansion. It's a piece of the MMO puzzle that needs new content just as much as PVP and just as much as story. Leaving out new content in a new expansion for 2 of thsoe 3 areas is a mistake in my eyes. Gamers consume story to quickly to rely so much on story, then leaving nothing but 1 to 4 year old content to try and hold gamers.

[Bakakiba]

Sounds like religion. Peddle faith in Bioware elsewhere.

 

If I were peddling faith in Bioware, these forums are the best place for it. If you don't like it...

[Alssaran]

You're not using logic. Your scenarios are circumstantial, your arguments are specious and your conclusions lack support and definition... You are a poor, poor scientist Doctor Venkman.

 

I will give you a pretty solid argument against the thesis that seems to be the norm here. That the proposed changes are going to cost the game a lot of players, or any amount of players that would hurt the game so much that a normal increase of casuals could not more than outweight the loss.

 

http://strawpoll.me/5688114/r

 

This is the strawpoll which has been up on this forum for somewhere around twenty-four hours. This game is played by aprox. 300k people who are subscribers to the game, as well as a lot of preferred players who will resub with KotFE for a time. Of those 300k people, barely 330 thought the change was important enough to give enough of a d**n to vote on it. Of those, 140 votes are for the system to become mandatory. Only 29 of those 330 votes are completely against the system.

 

Do you want me to give you numbers? Only 0,1% of the people subscribing to this game thought this change was worth enough of their time and effort to put a single vote up. Of those 0,1%, nearly 50% actually do appreciate the system that is proposed to go live. That means you have a total of 0,05% of the population against the mandatory system. Those 0,05% of people are the only people who give a rats behind about this proposed change. Yes, there might be more within the population that disagree, actual numbers are always a bit higher. But it is nowhere near the level that it would kill the game. People simply don't care. Neither forced or optional.

 

This isn't going to kill SW:TOR, like many people here suggest. This isn't going to revitalize the game either. Busiess is just going to continue as usual. And even if all people who are strongly opposed to the idea leave, that would make a 0,05% player loss.

 

If this was so opposed, so going to kill the system...why haven't players revolted against the change in an uproar? Why didn't 20% of the subscriptions immediately vanish overnight in an effort to make displeasure known.

 

I'll tell you why: Just don't enough people care.

 

 

I love when you prove me right, please continue. This statement clearly shines a light on your arguments being little more than egotistical self-stroking. There's neither proof to justify your statement, nor does it hold any bearing on the conversation. The first rule of debate is to speak to the information, you've made a personal statement, and no one cares.

 

The argument that this change alone will revive SWTOR is indeed egotistical self-stroking, that's correct. The statement that this is going to cause NGE numbers of unscubscription in combination with 6 schematics being removed and an achievement going away is the same. It's an argument that was tossed around here quite a lot during the past few days.

 

 

So you're NOT concerned about fairness, glad we can find common ground on that point. And you don't care about people leaving, so overall health and success of the game isn't a concern. Your goals and interests are becoming quite clear at this point, continue.

 

As stated above. You apply the false-consensus effect here. I've posted an interview with ghostcrawler two times already. A forum is rarely the detailed and average response of the community. Of 300.000 people, only 330 cared enough to vote. This poll was on the front of the forum for twenty-four hours. Heck, most people I ask say: "Hm, I have no idea what it is good for, but meh.". Then I ask them: "Would you leave because of this mandatory feature or the crafting changes?" and the answer is : "Not really.".

 

 

You don't know that this change is for the better, nor do you know BW's justifications for making it. You've presented zero evidence demonstrating the change will improve or otherwise benefit the game, and YOU YOURSELF stated above you don't care about the fairness or the success of the game, including other players within it. You can't claim the game might be better while stating you don't care about its health and success.

 

We could present you a detailed list of all the possibilities that this change offers, delivered in the Ark of the Covenant and carried by the archangels themselves. That still doesn't mean that most people will accept them. That's the usual behaviour in this forum. A level synch is always applied with a greater goal in mind. With a design choice associated in a long time plan. For GW2 it was the world events.

 

All the things you provide as negative are subjective. I need longer to farm materials. I can't solo heroic missions as easy as before. I "lose" levels I have previously earner. Do you see how all of this starts with "I"? The negative aspects are not overall negative, they are only negative in your subjective opinion. Maybe those changes are exactly for me? Maybe I like challenge? Maybe I want material prices to rise to make more credits.

 

This whole argumentation about benefits/negative aspects is subjective. We could argue until the dawn of time about them and still not reach a consensus. Fact of the matter: There are a lot of possibilities, but also a lot of possible drawbacks. The only thing we can do is let time and Bioware tell. We can always unsubscribe after the feature is not expanded upon. And if those features make forced level synch necessary in any way, fine by me. And don't start with FFXIV now. I can't hear it anymore. Those are two entirely different games, with an entirely different community and philosophy, even focus.

 

So allow me to draw an observation based on the facts. Bioware is making an ill-informed change without engaging its community, you have decided this change benefits you, your wife and one other person (apparently this is equivalent to a "gaming community") and since 3 people out of a game with millions of subscribers appears to support this change, Bioware should disregard a quite sizeable volume of negative feedback (whether it's be a vocal minority or not is irrelevant, negative feedback on the forums can be quantified, your support cannot beyond the three people you've mentioned).

 

Again. False consensus effect. You assume that what is currently the majority of this forum is the majority for the community. That's not the case. 90% of all the people are probably entirely indifferent about the change at all. As Ghostcrawler pointed out: "One could assume that, based on the negative feedback a change gets, it is not appreciated. That isn't the case. The issue behind this mindset is that one rarely sees the big picture. One also cannot ignore the fact that content or indifferent players don't care enough to talk in a forum about it. Which means that the loudest faction isn't always the biggest. It's just the one shouting the loudest, not the one that is representative of the community.".

 

Allow me to revise my previous statement: Your arguments are self-serving, ill-educated, illogical and are not stated to improve the success of the game or the players within its population, by your own admission.

 

And your arguments are just as self-serving, ill-educated and based on your own perspective aswell. People don't care a rats behind either way.

 

I believe you. But much like presidential candidates, repeating the same unsupportable talking points throughout the entire campaign wins you neither supporters nor helps achieve any beneficial goal.

 

It is a really great skill to have an introspection about ones self. Isn't it grand that you can see that what you accuse him of doing is exactly the same thing YOU are doing? You are mirroring behaviour here.

 

It's about forcing superior players (pro optionals) with better gear/stats to drop to their level (pro mandatories) so that the pro-mads have a much easier time and aren't required to invest time/resources to compete with higher skill/gear players.

 

So, to summarize the whole argument of that post:

 

You want superior players (pro-optional) players to be downscaled by force so that the inferior players (pro-mandatory) with less skill and gear can compete without a disadvantage?

 

I have never read a more self-absorbed, arrogant and negative statement in my entire life. You assume that everyone who is pro-mandatory is a bad player? That every pro-optional player is a pro? I'm more than able to compete with you without any leve synch, Princess. I have spend a lot of time in this game. Farmed enough credits to pay for two guild ships. Played the GTN several times. Have full operations gear on my Guardian, even with some HM pieces. I cleared higher difficulties of Explosive Conflict back in the day. Cleared DP/DF during 55 times on more than SM. Heck, one of our raid group even has the wings of the architect.

 

That view up there is just a self-absorbed statement which states how easy the world is for you. Everyone who disagrees with me on this must be an inferior player to me. They only want to put me at a disadvantage so they can compete.

 

Guess what Princess? That's not the case. We can compete with you just fine. Now find a suitable point. If I have ever seen a personal attack on this forum, that post was it.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Alssaran

[ScarletBlaze]

Princess_Chibi;8496312]So allow me to draw an observation based on the facts. Bioware is making an ill-informed change without engaging its community, you have decided this change benefits you, your wife and one other person (apparently this is equivalent to a "gaming community") and since 3 people out of a game with millions of subscribers appears to support this change, Bioware should disregard a quite sizeable volume of negative feedback (whether it's be a vocal minority or not is irrelevant, negative feedback on the forums can be quantified, your support cannot beyond the three people you've mentioned).

 

3 people? What are you basin that on the forums? Sorry there is no way an argument like this can be based on the people that post in the forums.

 

No everyone that is a subscriber comes to the forums to post. My guild sends me and one other guild member to the forums to post what they consider important especially if it bothers them. Level Synch does not bother them.

 

I know for a fact that my boyfriend and I like the level synch as we will be able to do things on the lower planets, heroics, etc. without having to go through the area with our eyes close and one shooting everything.

 

I also know other people that like this as well. You can based your opinion that people don't like it on your area of experience due to the people you know and interact with but you cannot base it on the entire game as you do not know every single person that plays and you don't know their views.

 

Based any opinion on the forums is essentially a waste of time as it usually winds up being the same ones posting over and over again and the ones that have no trouble with the level sync is not going to keep arguing over and over with regard to this. They have moved on to something else or actually they have gone on to play the game.

 

On that note have a good weekend.

[Uruare]

If I were peddling faith in Bioware, these forums are the best place for it. If you don't like it...

 

Oh, oh, do I get to fill in the blank? Because the answer is 'Eat these street tacos and really not give a crap'.

 

Cheers!

[Max_Killjoy]

I feel like people who feel the way you do, haven't taken the time to read any of the reasons people are actually against it.

 

That pretty much sums it up.

[xxIncubixx]

If they lost 20% of the current subscribers that would be terrible for the game. It's highly unlikely that the hype for the new movie will garner that many new players to this Star Wars game that has been out for four years and already has a reputation.

 

actually on metacritic it has 85 which is quite good. and the user score is pretty much the same as world of warcraft

Edited October 9, 2015 by xxIncubixx

[SelinaH]

Of those 300k people, barely 330 thought the change was important enough to give enough of a d**n to vote on it.

Another possibility is that barely 330 of those people thought the POLL was important enough to vote on, or indeed were even aware of its existence.

 

I didn't bother to vote on it. If the devs are actually paying any attention at all, they've already seen the feedback (good and bad). There's no time to change anything before launch.

 

So what would it accomplish, exactly?

[Alssaran]

Another possibility is that barely 330 of those people thought the POLL was important enough to vote on, or indeed were even aware of its existence.

 

Which still doesn't make my point about the ludicrous claim that the game will shut down because of the massive amounts of players leaving any less true. The simple truth is that not enough people care. If people were that upset about the issue they would come to this forum to actually vote against it. Even the reddit blog has 49.051 subscribers to it. If they get the e-mail updates about the reddit blog they do know that the level synch is coming and were perfectly able to read the change.

 

People who claim the majority in this are in total denial mode. They always have been with such things. An experienced community manager who was renowned for his rework of the communication with a fanbase of eleven million players has stated it before: A forum community is in no way indicative of the game community. They might be the loudest for a while, but they are not even close to the actual number of players. Their feedback, while appreciated, is usually never the thought of the majority or a lot of players.

 

You can deny that as long as you want. It doesn't change the truth. That there is again no majority in this. That this will not cause the game to die. You're the loudest minority at the moment, but you are still a minority.

 

So what would it accomplish, exactly?

 

You'll have your signatures collected. A signature petition. That's the best way to go about things. One piece of evidence that is easy to read and makes it quite clear that a lot of people aren't pleased. Twenty dozen threads from the same people, with the same people posting "no" in them won't change a thing. Bioware won't even notice the threads below 20 pages.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Alssaran

[SelinaH]

You can deny that as long as you want. It doesn't change the truth. That there is again no majority in this. That this will not cause the game to die. You're the loudest minority at the moment, but you are still a minority.

You seem to be confusing me with someone who actually denies this, or in fact made the claim you're erroneously ascribing to me.

 

All I'm stating is that the assertion that "People didn't vote in the poll; therefore, they don't care about the changes," isn't necessarily true.

You'll have your signatures collected. A signature petition. That's the best way to go about things. One piece of evidence that is easy to read and makes it quite clear that a lot of people aren't pleased. Twenty dozen threads from the same people, with the same people posting "no" in them won't change a thing. Bioware won't even notice the threads below 20 pages.

I figured that's what the "Combat Changes," "Crafting Changes" and "Core World Changes" feedback threads were for.

[Faelandaea]

You'll have your signatures collected. A signature petition.

 

Except that those are just as fraudulent as the forums, which obviously have people using multiple accounts to try to force their word across. Sometimes in the real world, some guy with a clipboard will ask if you want to sign a petition for something. You say "yes", and they also note your ID to verify who you are. Then when the dozen or so petition takers all hand in their sheets, they can verify if some fanatic went around trying to sign multiple copies of the petition OR tried to sign under different names.

 

By the way - any real life petition that does not ask for your legal identification for verification is fraudulent.

 

Online, such verification is impossible. If someone feels strongly enough about something, they will create multiple accounts and sign many times under made-up names. I even know of entire groups out there dedicated to such purposes. People even make bots to sign petitions literally thousands of auto-generated names to accomplish their goals, and a bot takes maybe an hour to write and customize for the script form.

 

So, in the end, digital online petitions are just for people who want to feel like they are doing good somehow by signing a name, but should never be taken seriously by any serious company.

 

Forums are the same way.

 

The ONLY accurate method other than an in-person petition, is an in-person panel of randomly picked players sitting in a room providing feedback directly to an interviewing staff member or panel judge. They don;t need players from across the country. They have literally hundreds of players that are withing driving distance to their headquarters they could invite to such a panel.

 

Then again - they may be not acknowledging the Sync threads and such because they have more deeper plans. As was said in the latest stream (Comic Con) the Sync seems to be preparation for something else they have planned. And in no way are they obligated to tell us what those plans are. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

[Max_Killjoy]

Except that those are just as fraudulent as the forums, which obviously have people using multiple accounts to try to force their word across.

 

What is this theory based on?

[Faelandaea]

What is this theory based on?

 

Been seeing some posts which you can tell it's obviously the same person. Same typing style with the same typos and same grammar. I understand a lot of people can speak similarly, but some posts just make one face-palm when you read them. Especially when they are time-stamped always in conjunction with each other.

 

It's not just this forum, though. I see that on literally every forum I have ever visited that focuses on gaming, and some other forums for other purposes as well. I run and moderate a few forums of my own. One forum is a one which I have to approve every post before it is posted because of the crazy hatred and flames that come about when discussing the subject it is aimed at. It's crazy how often someone with a VERY unique writing pattern tries to post the same retort multiple times under different user names to try to get it posted.

 

The sad part is, regardless of where they stand, it's people like that who ruin it for everyone else. If someone wants their opinion voiced, just log on, voice it, and then go about whatever else it is that you were doing. But I've seen people literally sit all day on a forum using 2-3 aliases trying to get a message across. It sucks.

 

And, before it is said or implied i am not talking about either camp here - During these Sync threads I've seen the pattern for both the supporters and the opponents of Sync. Nothing better to do I suppose.

[Princess_Chibi]

I will give you a pretty solid argument against the thesis that seems to be the norm here. That the proposed changes are going to cost the game a lot of players, or any amount of players that would hurt the game so much that a normal increase of casuals could not more than outweight the loss.

 

http://strawpoll.me/5688114/r

 

This is the strawpoll which has been up on this forum for somewhere around twenty-four hours. This game is played by aprox. 300k people who are subscribers to the game, as well as a lot of preferred players who will resub with KotFE for a time. Of those 300k people, barely 330 thought the change was important enough to give enough of a d**n to vote on it. Of those, 140 votes are for the system to become mandatory. Only 29 of those 330 votes are completely against the system.

 

Do you want me to give you numbers? Only 0,1% of the people subscribing to this game thought this change was worth enough of their time and effort to put a single vote up. Of those 0,1%, nearly 50% actually do appreciate the system that is proposed to go live. That means you have a total of 0,05% of the population against the mandatory system. Those 0,05% of people are the only people who give a rats behind about this proposed change. Yes, there might be more within the population that disagree, actual numbers are always a bit higher. But it is nowhere near the level that it would kill the game. People simply don't care. Neither forced or optional.

 

This isn't going to kill SW:TOR, like many people here suggest. This isn't going to revitalize the game either. Busiess is just going to continue as usual. And even if all people who are strongly opposed to the idea leave, that would make a 0,05% player loss.

 

If this was so opposed, so going to kill the system...why haven't players revolted against the change in an uproar? Why didn't 20% of the subscriptions immediately vanish overnight in an effort to make displeasure known.

 

I'll tell you why: Just don't enough people care.

 

 

 

 

The argument that this change alone will revive SWTOR is indeed egotistical self-stroking, that's correct. The statement that this is going to cause NGE numbers of unscubscription in combination with 6 schematics being removed and an achievement going away is the same. It's an argument that was tossed around here quite a lot during the past few days.

 

 

 

 

As stated above. You apply the false-consensus effect here. I've posted an interview with ghostcrawler two times already. A forum is rarely the detailed and average response of the community. Of 300.000 people, only 330 cared enough to vote. This poll was on the front of the forum for twenty-four hours. Heck, most people I ask say: "Hm, I have no idea what it is good for, but meh.". Then I ask them: "Would you leave because of this mandatory feature or the crafting changes?" and the answer is : "Not really.".

 

 

 

 

We could present you a detailed list of all the possibilities that this change offers, delivered in the Ark of the Covenant and carried by the archangels themselves. That still doesn't mean that most people will accept them. That's the usual behaviour in this forum. A level synch is always applied with a greater goal in mind. With a design choice associated in a long time plan. For GW2 it was the world events.

 

All the things you provide as negative are subjective. I need longer to farm materials. I can't solo heroic missions as easy as before. I "lose" levels I have previously earner. Do you see how all of this starts with "I"? The negative aspects are not overall negative, they are only negative in your subjective opinion. Maybe those changes are exactly for me? Maybe I like challenge? Maybe I want material prices to rise to make more credits.

 

This whole argumentation about benefits/negative aspects is subjective. We could argue until the dawn of time about them and still not reach a consensus. Fact of the matter: There are a lot of possibilities, but also a lot of possible drawbacks. The only thing we can do is let time and Bioware tell. We can always unsubscribe after the feature is not expanded upon. And if those features make forced level synch necessary in any way, fine by me. And don't start with FFXIV now. I can't hear it anymore. Those are two entirely different games, with an entirely different community and philosophy, even focus.

 

 

 

Again. False consensus effect. You assume that what is currently the majority of this forum is the majority for the community. That's not the case. 90% of all the people are probably entirely indifferent about the change at all. As Ghostcrawler pointed out: "One could assume that, based on the negative feedback a change gets, it is not appreciated. That isn't the case. The issue behind this mindset is that one rarely sees the big picture. One also cannot ignore the fact that content or indifferent players don't care enough to talk in a forum about it. Which means that the loudest faction isn't always the biggest. It's just the one shouting the loudest, not the one that is representative of the community.".

 

 

 

And your arguments are just as self-serving, ill-educated and based on your own perspective aswell. People don't care a rats behind either way.

 

 

 

It is a really great skill to have an introspection about ones self. Isn't it grand that you can see that what you accuse him of doing is exactly the same thing YOU are doing? You are mirroring behaviour here.

 

 

 

So, to summarize the whole argument of that post:

 

You want superior players (pro-optional) players to be downscaled by force so that the inferior players (pro-mandatory) with less skill and gear can compete without a disadvantage?

 

I have never read a more self-absorbed, arrogant and negative statement in my entire life. You assume that everyone who is pro-mandatory is a bad player? That every pro-optional player is a pro? I'm more than able to compete with you without any leve synch, Princess. I have spend a lot of time in this game. Farmed enough credits to pay for two guild ships. Played the GTN several times. Have full operations gear on my Guardian, even with some HM pieces. I cleared higher difficulties of Explosive Conflict back in the day. Cleared DP/DF during 55 times on more than SM. Heck, one of our raid group even has the wings of the architect.

 

That view up there is just a self-absorbed statement which states how easy the world is for you. Everyone who disagrees with me on this must be an inferior player to me. They only want to put me at a disadvantage so they can compete.

 

Guess what Princess? That's not the case. We can compete with you just fine. Now find a suitable point. If I have ever seen a personal attack on this forum, that post was it.

 

I'm deeply disappointed in you Alsarran. Up until this point your engagement has been logical and on-point. But you failed to notice some very glaring observations in my points, and even more of concern is that you failed to identify none of the quotations I made above, were addressed to you.

 

Based on your response, and injecting yourself into points directed towards Teladis, you've compromised your credibility and more importantly any impartiality you had. You've taken up defense of pro-mandatory players, whereas before at least you were riding the fence inbetween and it could be argued willing to hear out both sides of the discussion.

 

You've thrown in with a side, and now you'll have to stand with it. Pro-mandatory players by definition can't compete in the existing system; if they could they wouldn't be champions of it so hard to proceed. Further, pro-mandatory players are playing victims in that you call pro-choice players the vocal minority, and yet your biggest fear is if the change proceeds and it's optional, you'll in fact be the minority to use said system.

 

You've lost perspective... and it's unfortunate as you were one of the few engaging players in the discussion prior to this point.

[dscount]

Calm down Alssaran... your panties will get all bunched up.

 

Jeez... you are king of walls of text.

 

Oh yea.. a LARGE portion of that strawman poll still indicated OPTIONAL, but that fact is likely why you are grumpy. It's not OVERWHELMING positive for the Fan Boy defenders of Mandatory level sync.

 

Me... still against it and it's a waste of time. Only ONE... ONE single valid point has been brought up FOR the mandatory level-sync. Helping a buddy level up. Beyond that its useless and to be frank not worth the change.

[Alssaran]

What is this theory based on?

 

The fact that he believes every petition online must meet the accepted norm to function as an indicator.

 

Legal talk following. If you don't care, skip the spoiler.

 

 

There are two things wrong with that theory: What circumstances must be met in order for the petition to be consideres is not up to law. What you are describing is an official legal petition to a government body about certain changes to laws as well as taxes and official matters. Other rules apply for private and commercial petitions.

 

The second one is that requirements for a petition change based on the country. A legal petition might be considered valid by reaching 30.00 signatures in Denmark while the minimum requirement is 42.000 in Germany. One can accept that the legal requirements would probably be based on Biowares country of residence.

 

However: A petition does not need the legal requirements met to be considered by a publisher or a game company. Game companies can act upon receiveng a petition on their own discretion. You, as the paying customer for the product, cannot stop them from doing that. Even if the criteria you are referring to are not met, Bioware can still choose to act on the petition. There is no legal case here since listening to a petition does not require for the petition to meet certain government requirements because Star Wars: The Old Republic and the Star Wars franchise are intellectual property of Disney. If Disney receives a petition with 80.000 signatures to stop the level synch and does so, your point of "You need legal proof" becomes mood.

 

As long as the petition is conducted without the intention of fraud (Not giving an option to say no would be an example) or does not ask for something that is outside the receivers legal boundaries to do the petition can be considered and acted upon by Bioware.

 

Which means you do not have a case when claiming requirements. BIoware and EA can do with their legal property as they so desire. They reserve the right to change, delete or add any feature they desire to the game as long as it does not contradict law. Switch & Bait comes to mind. Or false advertisement.

 

 

Lots of legal talk. The TL;DR: He doesn't have a convincing point. I'm saying this as someone who is for forced level synch. If a conducted poll would show a heavy inclination to optional synch with a decent participation (at least 30% of the playerbase) then I don't mind them listening to the petition, legal requirements met or not.

 

Oh yea.. a LARGE portion of that strawman poll still indicated OPTIONAL, but that fact is likely why you are grumpy. It's not OVERWHELMING positive for the Fan Boy defenders of Mandatory level sync.

 

I have said so before, I will say it again: I don't care either way. I do like the idea of forced level synch if a new feature follows closely. If Bioware decides to make it optional, fine by me. I couldn't care less about how the feature is implemented, if at all. I think the underlying issue here is that you assume that I have in any way a positive or negative emotion associated with getting it forced or not. I don't. I'm indifferent about the polls results, despite forced being at the top above Optional and Semi optional still.

 

You should let go of the notion that I put any emotion into the outcome of this feature. I don't.

 

Based on your response, and injecting yourself into points directed towards Teladis, you've compromised your credibility and more importantly any impartiality you had. You've taken up defense of pro-mandatory players, whereas before at least you were riding the fence inbetween and it could be argued willing to hear out both sides of the discussion.

 

I'm still somewhat riding the fence inbetween. What I do not accept in the slightest, again, is the way people conduct this discussion. If people would stop using useless hyperboles and subjective statements to make points we would be weeks further ahead with this discussion. This game is going to die because of it is the same as Nobody will leave.

 

I do not defend the "pro-mandatory" force per se. What I did defend them against was your notion that every pro-mandatory player is a "inferior player", whereas everyone from the pro-optional faction is a "more skilled player", and that the aim in this is to bring them both in line again. That is a pointless accusation and a simple attack against the pro-mandatory force that doesn't add anything to this discussion besides a reason to antagonize both sides further.

 

If I have offended you then I am sorry. I choose the strong wording in order to hold up a mirror. This generalization isn't helping. Frankly speaking, your first post read like an offense to everyone in support of the feature while degrading them to unskilled, inferior players.

 

You've thrown in with a side, and now you'll have to stand with it. Pro-mandatory players by definition can't compete in the existing system; if they could they wouldn't be champions of it so hard to proceed.

 

I can compete in the current system just fine. I have been since early access and I will continue to do so in the future. Me being a superior or inferior player has nothing to do with the side I choose. I simply like to believe in potential, which this feature has some. That is the reason I choose forced in the poll.

 

If you want to put me into a category for choosing a side as an unskilled, inferior player...by all means. My choice isn't based on my skill level or that of others. And despite that choice I will keep pointing out flaws on both sides, as I did with the petition thing. I don't like hyperboles on either side. But I will say it again: A generalization that isn't helping.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Alssaran

[Shikyo]

I'm deeply disappointed in you Alsarran. Up until this point your engagement has been logical and on-point. But you failed to notice some very glaring observations in my points, and even more of concern is that you failed to identify none of the quotations I made above, were addressed to you.

 

Based on your response, and injecting yourself into points directed towards Teladis, you've compromised your credibility and more importantly any impartiality you had. You've taken up defense of pro-mandatory players, whereas before at least you were riding the fence inbetween and it could be argued willing to hear out both sides of the discussion.

 

You've thrown in with a side, and now you'll have to stand with it. Pro-mandatory players by definition can't compete in the existing system; if they could they wouldn't be champions of it so hard to proceed. Further, pro-mandatory players are playing victims in that you call pro-choice players the vocal minority, and yet your biggest fear is if the change proceeds and it's optional, you'll in fact be the minority to use said system.

 

You've lost perspective... and it's unfortunate as you were one of the few engaging players in the discussion prior to this point.

 

From someone who appears to have pride in the ability to stand on logic and articulate yourself well you fail to see how your own logic caves on itself. Clearly this simply my observation of the two of you debating but of the two, you have not been the one being very objective. This is evident in your assumption that "pro-mandatory" is equal to "unskilled" which makes no logical sense. Making something more challenging, regardless of whether it is still trivial to your particular skill level as a player can never logically equal less skillfull. Rather than pointing out specifics I'll instead offer my opinion of the changes which to be clear no matter the outcome will not impact my desire to play the game further or not at this exact point in time:

 

WARNING: this will sound rather arrogant and I apologize considering I know of and have met plenty of talented players in this game, many of which far better than I. spoiler tag because this is a very lengthy opinion.

 

 

So knowing that level sync does not buff players up to a level such as bolster but instead brings higher levels down without removing a distinct advantage of being a higher level (see the dev stream for evidence of this).

 

SWTOR has been from the beginning a bioware game which was focusing on story and immersion. Debatable in its success of this sure but I've liked it. Going back to this is a breath of fresh air.

What does this have to do with the price of potatoes? Well from a Sith Lord returning to say tatooine as a level 60 and walking through a republic encampment with not a single npc batting a eye is simply immersion breaking. How can they see my lvl? Why would it matter? Wouldn't they give their life to stop me? On top of that in current game I can go stand in a mob of 15+ republic fighters and do literally nothing without taking a scratch. That is beyond godly and simply impossible. Again, breaks immersion. Sure, with level sync I could still do this but not with ignoring the NPC mechanics such as terminates and snipes. Most MMO systems create a atmosphere where you can simply ignore parts of the game that are designed to make it challenging by out leveling and out gearing the content which does little to promote skill or actual improvement in how you play. Ever do a end game encounter with someone and wonder how they are so terrible? Could be a good reason why. This also makes the leveling experience less fun for me because with how abundant exp is you quickly out level the content making it even less challenging then it may have been to begin with. For me that is boring.

 

Now this isn't the first game to implement something like this, guild wars 2 comes to mind. Recently with it being free to play I've given the game a go and experienced it since being bored with how unchallenging swtor is. From a lower leveling character in it and partaking in live event content with other players higher level than I, I found it rather rewarding to not feel like a burden and while they were still more useful in the encounters I still felt useful which was rather nice. Believe it or not some people don't like the feeling of being a backpack to others. While the realm of guild wars isn't my interest I can only wonder if this will be similar to players experiencing swtor within this new system for the first time.

 

This brings me to the concern of pvp servers under this lvl sync. At first I had the feeling like well how is it fair that lowbies can or should be able to contend with me as a higher level? Then I thought about immersion and gaming experience on a pvp server and currently in open world pvp as a lowbie means you avoid all combat as the majority of it is higher lvl characters running around one shotting lowbies or fighting other high level characters which you can do nothing to impact. Boring and a nuisance. From a high level character perspective what challenge is there in one shotting lowbies on other planets? In hopes that higher levels will respond and some challenge can begin? How often does that really pan out? With level sync a high level can still easily take out a lowbie under level sync, if not then I think that high level may not be as skilled as they thought. Now seeing a group of low level players that can actual hit you, now that seems like a challenge both parties can possibly enjoy. Again from a immersion stand point this is good. You may be stronger in your higher level but shouldn't be a god to 4 other champions on their journey. More like a epic raid boss they have to try and over come! A exciting prospect to me personally. Again from a lowbie perspective on a pvp server you come by a fight among characters of a higher level, no longer is your only option to turn tail and run. You can engage and feel like you are actually contributing something to the outcome of the battle! Exciting prospect to me again.

 

Then there is the point that as a higher level you can go back and help friends level without hindering their experience gain as well as your own.

 

On the note of the added time to gather resources from these planets I fail to fully understand this because in the crafting changes they stated that of higher level you gain more resources per node and the nodes theirselves have had a blanket increase to what they yield which would theoretically offset this. Now datacron hunting I can understand but seems trivial to me.

 

Now before you attack me as being "unskilled" allow me to really bring on that arrogant warning I started with. I currently have yet to have absolutely have to min max to compete in pvp or pve end game content. The skill required in the content in pve and the majority players in pvp just hasn't merited the need for it from me. Instead I've found myself flocking to the nerfed classes rather than the FOTM classes simply for the added difficulty in making them work in the content. The last time in PVE I've found the need to buckle down and really try was HM styrak enrage timer back in the day. NiM of that encounter was easier as it had less number crunching but more strict mechanics. Similarly in current end game ToS HM has a similar situation with the under lurker. As for pvp, there are some really talented and competitive players that really would require me to put everything into it but they are such a minority that preparing for them creates more situations where I steam roll the majority for the few challenging encounters. I'd rather go up against the truly competitive unprepared, losing almost every time for the exhilarating challenge and hell I still manage to give them for at least a more consistent challenge from those less skilled. I told you, arrogant, but how I choose to play as winning isn't what is important to me and what engrosses fun for me. Yes, winning is fun but only when it is hard fought for!

 

As you may or may not be able to tell, I do not fit the bill of your assumptions and am excited to see the changes in action. Sure, after experience I may find it to be a aweful change and a bad idea but ultimately I can find nothing on paper to tell me this to be true. It has instead done the opposite and peaked my curiosity and look forward to leveling a character within this change. I simply will have to experience it.

 

This most likely will not modify your assumption and you may be a better player than I at this game, you may not, but ultimately your money spent on this game is no more or less significant than mine or any other player for that matter and this is simply the lense I'm looking through

 

 

[Princess_Chibi]

From someone who appears to have pride in the ability to stand on logic and articulate yourself well you fail to see how your own logic caves on itself. Clearly this simply my observation of the two of you debating but of the two, you have not been the one being very objective. This is evident in your assumption that "pro-mandatory" is equal to "unskilled" which makes no logical sense. Making something more challenging, regardless of whether it is still trivial to your particular skill level as a player can never logically equal less skillfull. Rather than pointing out specifics I'll instead offer my opinion of the changes which to be clear no matter the outcome will not impact my desire to play the game further or not at this exact point in time:

 

Fair to an extent; however, I've attempted to articulate that it's not just a matter of "skill" in the traditional sense, although you're correct that I'm using the term interchangeably to describe a group of players unwilling (or unable) to make a tangible investment be it in time, virtual credits, money via subscription or some other game-related factor that places them in a less favorable position versus those players who do.

 

Don't take my use of the word skill to be all-inclusive in the traditional sense, it's not. But what I do stand behind is that pro-mandatory players are supporting a stance on the belief that "leveling the playing field" effectively means the redistribution of rewards more in their favor (this could be credits, easier time in killing mobs, farming, whatever the end game goal is). The observation I make is they would not support level sync unless there was a redistributed reward in their favor; no one argues for or against a stance without a benefit to themselves in doing so.

 

So let's boil things down a bit. Those arguing for level sync to be optional on a scale of 1 to 10 represent closer to a 5; they don't necessarily care about the concept, but they certainly don't want to be forced into it; 1's would be represented by players adamantly against the system (and arguably change in general as pro-choicers have been accused of) and 10's...are pro-mandatories; I say they're the extreme because optional is literally the compromise between "no syncing" and "all syncing".

 

So ask yourself, why force syncing on to other players? If it's a desire for "more challenging content", that's a self-contained notion. You don't need to interact in any way with other players to lower (sync) your own level down on Tatooine and play it either for rewards or to enjoy the story. Let's be realistic, is there any single reason someone would want to force level-syncing on others that isn't solely self-serving? Based on currently known facts, and without speculating about Bioware being infallible or having some master plan, current evidence does not support this course of action. So there is no benign reason to force this change on others.

 

Now flip the thought process. What are the reasons someone might want to force level sync on others? Let's name them: 1) to make farming easier; competition with equivalent stats [this assumes the pro-mad player hasn't worked to acquire end-game gear and max level] now means it takes X period of time to farm nodes for both level 65's and level 25's no matter their location (assume Tatooine for this scenario). Level sync here "levels" the playing field in the Level 25's favor, as it takes the Level 65 just as much time or close to it to clear trash mobs as it does for the 25 to reach a node...

 

2) World Boss Spawns and pulling; same principle as #1, it takes more manpower to pull world bosses, they aren't solo-able by the level 65 any longer. This means more up-time, which is *most* beneficial to the Level 25.

 

3) Challenge for greater rewards - Some people on both sides seek this, but bottom line is this is specific to an individual. There's no reason for force level sync on everyone if a select few (whatever their population) just want a greater challenge in the game. Some people play Arkham Knight on Normal, others on Knight Mode. But not everyone is forced to play on Knight Mode because one side argues for it.

 

4) Bioware/balance/future state - There's no information to form intelligent conclusions on this. Bioware is notorious for having released poorly thought out content in the past and this could be no different. Or they might actually have something. Either way, they haven't explained it, so this argument is debunked for both sides and supports neither. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't paying attention.

 

5) Lack of commitment to the game/desire to multi-game - Let's be real, some players in SWTOR just don't want to commit hours to raiding regularly to have max gear. They aren't completionists, and they just want to jump in and out of games. But while they're logged in, they expect all the perks of being max leveled-geared and/or to effectively be treated as subscribers (I'll compared F2P to subs here). In short, they spend 30-60 minutes 2-4 times a week playing, if that but that's not nearly enough time to max out gear and learn ops tactics. Level sync is a convenient means of forcing MAX Level 65's into a situation where their Level 40 with mid-level gear is "in the same ballpark" as the Level 65's toon when on the same planet. Passives don't make up for this and stats drive the majority of fights. Now the Level 40, instead of feeling like a second class citizen, feels on top of the world, ...as long as they stay on planets ~Level 40 or below.

 

6) There was a grotesquely niche case of a family wanting to play together but the levels between them all was spread to all ends of the spectrum. Level sync would homogenize them all enough to play together on equal footing. This is mentioned or reasons of completeness, but isn't going to be a common case.

 

7) Accessibility to new players - This harkens back to #1 and #5; it puts a day 7 new player on relatively equal terms with a 4-year player when on the same planet and area. This again benefits the Level 20 at the expense of the Level 65, with game knowledge being the only measure of true separation. I offer as proof homogenization of the crafting skills as demonstration that Bioware is willing to sacrifice beneficial complexity (a rich economic crafting system) to allow quick entry and easy access to this game, largely at the expense of those who have invested a great deal of time, virtual currency and energy into gaining a (fair) advantage [fair in that they built their crafting empire from the ground up within means of the game]. A day 1 player should NOT be in the same ballpark as a 4 year player who's spent thousands of hours playing. Buying Level 60's toons is for the most part this equivalent; and I draw this comparison as another possible motive for this change...

 

So there are the immediate arguments. Please bring up more if you can think of them, but most importantly, try to come up with one that doesn't benefit a lower level, less skilled (potentially, some people don't want to learn button rotations), less economically well off (either F2P or in-game currency), doesn't want to farm, or simply is hoping level sync might discourage farming of lower level nodes, player. You don't force someone else into an undesirable situation unless it's to your benefit, that's human nature. What I want to know is why pro-mads think this is acceptable and reasonable; and I really want to know why common sense from Bioware doesn't necessitate that they should know better.

[Shikyo]

Fair to an extent; however, I've attempted to articulate that it's not just a matter of "skill" in the traditional sense, although you're correct that I'm using the term interchangeably to describe a group of players unwilling (or unable) to make a tangible investment be it in time, virtual credits, money via subscription or some other game-related factor that places them in a less favorable position versus those players who do.

 

Don't take my use of the word skill to be all-inclusive in the traditional sense, it's not. But what I do stand behind is that pro-mandatory players are supporting a stance on the belief that "leveling the playing field" effectively means the redistribution of rewards more in their favor (this could be credits, easier time in killing mobs, farming, whatever the end game goal is). The observation I make is they would not support level sync unless there was a redistributed reward in their favor; no one argues for or against a stance without a benefit to themselves in doing so.

 

So let's boil things down a bit. Those arguing for level sync to be optional on a scale of 1 to 10 represent closer to a 5; they don't necessarily care about the concept, but they certainly don't want to be forced into it; 1's would be represented by players adamantly against the system (and arguably change in general as pro-choicers have been accused of) and 10's...are pro-mandatories; I say they're the extreme because optional is literally the compromise between "no syncing" and "all syncing".

 

So ask yourself, why force syncing on to other players? If it's a desire for "more challenging content", that's a self-contained notion. You don't need to interact in any way with other players to lower (sync) your own level down on Tatooine and play it either for rewards or to enjoy the story. Let's be realistic, is there any single reason someone would want to force level-syncing on others that isn't solely self-serving? Based on currently known facts, and without speculating about Bioware being infallible or having some master plan, current evidence does not support this course of action. So there is no benign reason to force this change on others.

 

Now flip the thought process. What are the reasons someone might want to force level sync on others? Let's name them: 1) to make farming easier; competition with equivalent stats [this assumes the pro-mad player hasn't worked to acquire end-game gear and max level] now means it takes X period of time to farm nodes for both level 65's and level 25's no matter their location (assume Tatooine for this scenario). Level sync here "levels" the playing field in the Level 25's favor, as it takes the Level 65 just as much time or close to it to clear trash mobs as it does for the 25 to reach a node...

 

2) World Boss Spawns and pulling; same principle as #1, it takes more manpower to pull world bosses, they aren't solo-able by the level 65 any longer. This means more up-time, which is *most* beneficial to the Level 25.

 

3) Challenge for greater rewards - Some people on both sides seek this, but bottom line is this is specific to an individual. There's no reason for force level sync on everyone if a select few (whatever their population) just want a greater challenge in the game. Some people play Arkham Knight on Normal, others on Knight Mode. But not everyone is forced to play on Knight Mode because one side argues for it.

 

4) Bioware/balance/future state - There's no information to form intelligent conclusions on this. Bioware is notorious for having released poorly thought out content in the past and this could be no different. Or they might actually have something. Either way, they haven't explained it, so this argument is debunked for both sides and supports neither. Anyone arguing otherwise isn't paying attention.

 

5) Lack of commitment to the game/desire to multi-game - Let's be real, some players in SWTOR just don't want to commit hours to raiding regularly to have max gear. They aren't completionists, and they just want to jump in and out of games. But while they're logged in, they expect all the perks of being max leveled-geared and/or to effectively be treated as subscribers (I'll compared F2P to subs here). In short, they spend 30-60 minutes 2-4 times a week playing, if that but that's not nearly enough time to max out gear and learn ops tactics. Level sync is a convenient means of forcing MAX Level 65's into a situation where their Level 40 with mid-level gear is "in the same ballpark" as the Level 65's toon when on the same planet. Passives don't make up for this and stats drive the majority of fights. Now the Level 40, instead of feeling like a second class citizen, feels on top of the world, ...as long as they stay on planets ~Level 40 or below.

 

6) There was a grotesquely niche case of a family wanting to play together but the levels between them all was spread to all ends of the spectrum. Level sync would homogenize them all enough to play together on equal footing. This is mentioned or reasons of completeness, but isn't going to be a common case.

 

7) Accessibility to new players - This harkens back to #1 and #5; it puts a day 7 new player on relatively equal terms with a 4-year player when on the same planet and area. This again benefits the Level 20 at the expense of the Level 65, with game knowledge being the only measure of true separation. I offer as proof homogenization of the crafting skills as demonstration that Bioware is willing to sacrifice beneficial complexity (a rich economic crafting system) to allow quick entry and easy access to this game, largely at the expense of those who have invested a great deal of time, virtual currency and energy into gaining a (fair) advantage [fair in that they built their crafting empire from the ground up within means of the game]. A day 1 player should NOT be in the same ballpark as a 4 year player who's spent thousands of hours playing. Buying Level 60's toons is for the most part this equivalent; and I draw this comparison as another possible motive for this change...

 

So there are the immediate arguments. Please bring up more if you can think of them, but most importantly, try to come up with one that doesn't benefit a lower level, less skilled (potentially, some people don't want to learn button rotations), less economically well off (either F2P or in-game currency), doesn't want to farm, or simply is hoping level sync might discourage farming of lower level nodes, player. You don't force someone else into an undesirable situation unless it's to your benefit, that's human nature. What I want to know is why pro-mads think this is acceptable and reasonable; and I really want to know why common sense from Bioware doesn't necessitate that they should know better.

 

I will attempt to debunk most of what you are saying with two things you can do right now that are known to us:

1. Go to the dev stream where he is in a dromund kaas heroic with level sync. Watch the numbers from his fly by texts which are 5k to 9k hits. We know these are simply from skills and passive abilities as his stats have been level synced. Watch how quickly they melt yet his health does actually slowly go down because they are no longer out of the that 10 level gap that causes everything to completely miss.

 

2. Go to the same heroic on dromund kaas with a level 18 character and do the same. Look at your damage text. You will not see 5k to 9k hits and you will most likely die.

 

3. While everything in the dev stream is subject to change, currently stating a level 25 will go through the same encounter as fast as a level 65 synced is proven to be incorrect by doing both 1 and 2 above.

 

So now re-evaluate your idea that a level 25 player will have a advantage of any kind over a level 65 synced down to level 25. Now modify that example as 4 level 25s vs a level 65 under level sync and now a advantage may be seen toward the level 25s considering the level 65 has to plow through. This seems interesting to me and actually fun whether I be the level 65 or one of the level 25s.

 

As for a 7 day player being on equal terms as a 4 year: I can't see that at all. Currently, being a player since beta, I can be on a level 15 character and walk circles around new players of the exact same level. Why? Because I have years more experience with the game. I know what their move should be and shouldn't be while they still have no clue because they are still learning. I remember launch, considering I played beta, listening to players complain they couldn't make it beyond their class story boss in early act 1 because they couldn't figure out that their stun was also a interrupt and they had to interrupt a specific ability. They also didn't realize they needed to use the actual interrupt ability and thought it was useless because it did no damage.

 

As for time investment which is a valid point let's look at other games currently doing well on the market that hinge on multiplayer:

1. Call of Duty: while a max leveled, fully unlocked, fully prestiged player has a advantage from all that time spent. A level 1, new player can still play with them, put up a fight, and win. Very successful multiplayer game.

 

2. Destiny: a closer example. A level 40 fully geared player can go do Russia earth which is full of level 1 and 6 spawns and die from taking on too many enemies. They have a distinct advantage still and plow through them compared to a actual level 6 player but can and do still die from biting off more than they can true. In destiny it takes a lot of time and effort to fully gear. Also contains live events where players of all levels come together to take down content without being carried or being a back pack.

 

3. Guild wars 2 as I pointed out initial and won't bother to explain again.

 

Those are the three big ones I can think of now as I don't play very many consecutive games at once, but this is where gaming is evolving to and may be a drag for some but is being successful for the gaming developers.

 

As for being optional instead of forced: doing so doesn't supply a workable system I can see for how rewards are being done. Remember that in the dev stream they stated that the rewards and experience scales based on your actual level. So taking on a level 40 world boss on a level 60 will net you level 60 experience and level 60 rewards. Also in pvp servers this will create the option of still ganking low level characters with the only response being calling as many equal level players of the ganker to help which isnt working. Look at the health of pvp servers. Forced gives those lowbies the ability to band together in numbers to try and fight back. Currently, if there is a 10 level gap no matter how many players band together, the 65 will kill them all with a single aoe.

 

So far the only benefit of it being optional I can see is so you still have the option of using MMO system of out leveling and out gearing the content to solo it or farm it quickly and easily. Do you really think nightmare pilgrim was ever designed to be solo'd? Or any group content for that matter?

 

I understand that this system removes that aspect of play with it existing or not being optional but from someone who enjoys playing content as intended and enjoys playing with other people regardless of if I've spent more time then they have playing I'm unable to get upset by it with what is currently understood about the system.

 

As for how you feel about this change, I won't argue that because clearly you feel this change will negatively impact how you currently play which is fair. Others may agree, others may not. Heck I might find i don't like the change once I actual play it either. My point is that it simply to me it has peaked more interest and excitement than displeasure for the reasons i said and how I am perceiving it.

 

I will say I share your sentiment that games are becoming very simplified catering to those that do not wish to spend large amounts of time and effort to be successful. This has been a trend for a long time and is just unfortunate way of games evolving. The reality is that those that do not like that fact are a minority of the target audiences. There are more kids, teenagers, and young adults playing games than the older gamers around during the time of how games use to require large amounts of time and effort to master. Going off the trend of games being released and bought it is pretty clear to me that the majority of gamers spending money now don't want complex, effort extensive games. They want to boot up and be awesome and then shut down. You either adapt or move on. I know if I ever can't adapt to a game I move on. Could happen with swtor for me but at this moment I don't see it.

 

Anyway, good chatting and I'm a bit curious as to how you actual receive this change once live from reading your opinions on the changes.

[Teladis]

...Not sure why people are taking the points so serious. The fact that they wanted to call people bad for wanting level sync was enough of a point to dismiss most of they said. Now, people are all hardcore at making points.

[Uruare]

Anyway, good chatting and I'm a bit curious as to how you actual receive this change once live from reading your opinions on the changes.

 

I know you weren't addressing me in that post, though for my own part, I fully expect that its not going to be some black and white, horrible if this/wonderful if that dichotomy.

 

With things going live as they are, I rather realistically suspect that its going to be pretty awesome on the whole, with some glaring issues in other areas entirely (Looking at you, conquest and crafting mat requirements), but level sync itself?

 

I suspect most will either like it or, at worst, be indifferent towards it.

 

To me, that's just taking a realistic view; a view I think is as tempered by rational assessment of the facts and the situation as I can manage from my current vantage points.

 

I'm crabby that this is forced and we still have no idea how, or even IF, going to Belsavis to do the dailies will even work.

 

I'm crabby that this is declared as mandatory and we still just don't even have a foot to stand on beyond hoping really hard that they get it right...that the implied nuisance of everything now always being on-level will be worth it.

 

The heroics clearly sound like they will be, AND THAT'S GREAT!

 

What do we know about how things will pan out if we go to Section X?

 

And listen to them crickets chirp. We don't know. We can't know, because they're not answering very valid and very legitimate questions.

 

So here we sit.

[EllieAnne]

5) Lack of commitment to the game/desire to multi-game - Let's be real, some players in SWTOR just don't want to commit hours to raiding regularly to have max gear. They aren't completionists, and they just want to jump in and out of games.

 

Not necessarily. I did a lot of grinding of ops to get my purple 186 mods. The Revan cam out and it was "Welcome to Rishii. Here's your free gear that is better than what you have." At that moment I decided to stop grinding Ops because I could just wait for the next update.