Mandatory Level Sync, dumbest idea ever...No POINT in having a level based system.

[Bakakiba]

So? The ToS says they don't have to explain or tell us anything. And that they can change the game at anytime.

 

Guess what? We agreed to it.

 

Exactly:

 

15. Updates to EA Services

 

IMPORTANT: EA MAY FIND IT NECESSARY TO UPDATE, OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS TO BALANCE GAME PLAY AND USAGE OF EA SERVICES. THESE UPDATES OR "RESETS" MAY CAUSE YOU SETBACKS WITHIN THE RELEVANT GAME WORLD AND MAY AFFECT CHARACTERS, GAMES, GROUPS OR OTHER ENTITLEMENTS UNDER YOUR CONTROL. EA RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE THESE UPDATES AND IS NOT LIABLE TO YOU FOR THESE CHANGES.

[adaemeneten]

Exactly:

 

15. Updates to EA Services

 

IMPORTANT: EA MAY FIND IT NECESSARY TO UPDATE, OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS TO BALANCE GAME PLAY AND USAGE OF EA SERVICES. THESE UPDATES OR "RESETS" MAY CAUSE YOU SETBACKS WITHIN THE RELEVANT GAME WORLD AND MAY AFFECT CHARACTERS, GAMES, GROUPS OR OTHER ENTITLEMENTS UNDER YOUR CONTROL. EA RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE THESE UPDATES AND IS NOT LIABLE TO YOU FOR THESE CHANGES.

 

Correct. All this legalize been said, people can and will still vote with their wallet. No one's talking lawsuit here. This little blurb can't hold customer's feet to the fire, so to speak. It doesn't mean squat if customers don't like the incoming updates and decide to leave the game.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Pay attention to the news. Fifty page long terms of service, written in legalese with the specific intent to confuse or prevent the consumer from asserting common sense rights or hold companies accountable for their products and promises aren't holding up in court right now.

 

In other words, just because you agreed to something, especially under duress (agree to this or you can't play) may not mean jack in a lawsuit.

 

Courts are getting tired of companies laying all blame on the consumer while collecting their money hand over fist. It's all risk for the consumer (predatory business practices). And that's slowly but surely changing. Look at some recent California consumer lawsuits, especially the nestle bottling suit.

 

And yes, I have background in business law.

 

Which means nothing here because the consumer in question isn't being lied to. All the consumer is doing is paying for access to a service which may experience delays, maintenance or other changes as deemed fit by EA. That's all they get access to.

[TTGolding]

Exactly:

 

15. Updates to EA Services

 

IMPORTANT: EA MAY FIND IT NECESSARY TO UPDATE, OR RESET CERTAIN PARAMETERS TO BALANCE GAME PLAY AND USAGE OF EA SERVICES. THESE UPDATES OR "RESETS" MAY CAUSE YOU SETBACKS WITHIN THE RELEVANT GAME WORLD AND MAY AFFECT CHARACTERS, GAMES, GROUPS OR OTHER ENTITLEMENTS UNDER YOUR CONTROL. EA RESERVES THE RIGHT TO MAKE THESE UPDATES AND IS NOT LIABLE TO YOU FOR THESE CHANGES.

 

Yup. Very similar to the Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) version that Star Wars Galaxies had. After that lawsuit I gave them my original discs back and they had to return every cent I had spent on that game. Game cost, sub costs, expansion costs (Jump to Lightspeed) etc.. The precedent is there that if the game is significantly different that it was at release when you agreed to the terms then that TOS and any subsequent update to the TOS mean sweet diddly F all. It isnt the carte blanche that many players or the game owners/devs think that it is and SWG proved that.

Edited October 18, 2015 by TTGolding

[Princess_Chibi]

Which means nothing here because the consumer in question isn't being lied to. All the consumer is doing is paying for access to a service which may experience delays, maintenance or other changes as deemed fit by EA. That's all they get access to.

 

You have zero law background, don't you? I'll go slow, a subscription constitutes an agreement of service and meeting of the minds (a basic contract for your purposes) where the consumer receives services under good faith that they pay for. Drastically changing the quality of a service after advertising superior quality may in fact be tortuous (illegal, or to simplify it for you this is known widely as bait and switch).

 

So no, simple access to the game alone isn't the only thing implied in a subscription. A reasonable person standard holds as to the quality, state and availability of the game as well. In short, EA can't turn the game into Tetris tomorrow and expect to avoid a lawsuit because the terms of service says they can. A reasonable person would disagree that's what the consumer paid for.

 

Now, shall we try this again?

Edited October 18, 2015 by Princess_Chibi

[Reno_Tarshil]

You have zero law background, don't you? I'll go slow, a subscription constitutes an agreement of service and meeting of the minds (a basic contract for your purposes) where the consumer receives services under good faith that they pay for. Drastically changing the quality of a service after advertising superior quality may in fact be tortuous (illegal, or to simplify it for you this is known widely as bait and switch).

 

So no, simple access to the game alone isn't the only thing implied in a subscription. A reasonable person standard holds as to the quality, state and availability of the game as well. In short, EA can't turn the game into Tetris tomorrow and expect to avoid a lawsuit because the terms of service says they can. A reasonable person would disagree that's what the consumer paid for.

 

Now, shall we try this again?

 

For someone with a background in Law, you're still not getting it, so I'll repeat.

 

The Consumer is paying w/e amount they agree to pay for access to the game for however many months they agree to. The ToS states that EA can make any changes to the game it deems necessary. The ToS also makes note of unexpected delays and scheduled/unscheduled maintenance can occur at given time.

 

If you cannot agree that changes can be potentially made to the game, then do not agree to give them money for said game.

 

You are giving them full consent that you accept any future changes that will be made to the game in order to access the service.

[TTGolding]

You aren't agreeing to that at all and the fact that everyone that bought SWG was able to get everything they spent on that game returned to them, if they wanted it and returned their original discs proves that and is legal precedent.

[Princess_Chibi]

For someone with a background in Law, you're still not getting it, so I'll repeat.

 

The Consumer is paying w/e amount they agree to pay for access to the game for however many months they agree to. The ToS states that EA can make any changes to the game it deems necessary. The ToS also makes note of unexpected delays and scheduled/unscheduled maintenance can occur at given time.

 

If you cannot agree that changes can be potentially made to the game, then do not agree to give them money for said game.

 

You are giving them full consent that you accept any future changes that will be made to the game in order to access the service.

 

Wow. What you just said is special. The statement you just made wouldn't even hold up in traffic court... And that's by far a lower standard.

 

Terms of service is not God. In law, it's at best a warning label. It doesn't relieve the company of due diligence. Since you seem unable to understand that terms of service hold little weight in court in a matter of product quality, let's just both agree that you're horribly wrong and move forward...

Edited October 18, 2015 by Princess_Chibi

[Reno_Tarshil]

Wow. What you just said is special. The statement you just made wouldn't even hold up in traffic court... And that's by far a lower standard.

 

Terms of service is not God. In law, it's at best a warning label. It doesn't relieve the company of due diligence. Since you seem unable to understand that terms of service hold little weight in court in a matter of product quality, let's just both agree that you're horribly wrong and move forward...

 

I understand the ToS just fine. Apparently you do not however but you still agreed to them anyways. So thank you for your continued support of the game.

[Deyjarl]

What's the point of levels now?

 

Skill and gear progression.

 

 

Levels make don't really make sense. Why would a soldier, same kind of beast, Sith or Jedi on one planet be any less or more dangerous on another?

 

At 60 I can wipe the floor with whole armies on Ord Mantell or Korriban but I can't on Yavin IV?

[cubiehole]

I wonder if the addition of level sync is actually intended to mess up bot farmers and the third party credit sellers.

[Max_Killjoy]

Can we please stop pulling that up as proof? We have been asking to see Eric soloing the top level Heroic on Voss or Hoth or Belsavis as a fairer example of how much of a nerf level-sync will be.

 

That's why I said "at least in the..."

 

I'm not convinced by that one stream, not at all, but many of the pro-mandatory keep referencing it as "proof" of what things will be like -- so I figured I'd turn it on it's head and point to it as an indicator that levelsync will be the worst of all worlds, with no one getting what they want out of the deal, except for people who want to be able to grind content far below their level for creampuff XP...

Edited October 19, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Max_Killjoy]

You're numbers are skewed. There are more then 200 posters on the forum, there must be thousands, tens of thousands, and of all those posters only 135 had enough of an issue with the level syncing to post about.

 

And 44 felt strongly enough to post in favor of it at that point on that thread.

 

If there are 1000 voters in a precinct, and only 100 show up to vote... guess who's voices actually count that day...

 

If there are 100000 in a county, and 1000 answer a survey...

Edited October 19, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Quraswren]

Seriously, whoever came up with this should just be outright fired. What's the point of levels now? You're just going to be brought up/down to be on par with the mobs.

SNIP....

 

Down leveling everyone is a way to make you redo old content when nothing new is being created but story and is a gating mechanic to stop you from getting some extra buttons to press.

 

Its a rather convoluted way to get people to sub for short lived content.

[RevenDark]

Does this mean that theoretically i could level from 1-65 on the starting planet alone?. Exactly how does it work anyway if I'm 20 running around the starting planet would it be instanced for a lvl 20 so that everything would be level 20 or would the open world be the 1-10 and the instances/heroic's would scale up?

[Max_Killjoy]

Does this mean that theoretically i could level from 1-65 on the starting planet alone?

 

Unless there's something hidden in the information they don't feel like sharing with their customers, yes, that's absolutely possible. You could level all the way up doing nothing but grinding mobs on the starter planet.

[Redlotusx]

what should have been done is have it optional and when you are doing a quest there, if you don't level sync the kill doesn't count and you get no loot/ no mission update or you should get nothing even when not questing. Same for world boss, if you don't sync they are untargetable, that what should have been done, lets the crying start for a while BW gonna learn the lesson and make it optional (i hope) and that gonna means no more whining. I still gonna play since i like this game despite the flaw and solo flashpoint is something i wanted for a long time, well anyway see ya in game if ya don't chicken out Edited October 19, 2015 by Redlotusx

[Max_Killjoy]

what should have been done is have it optional and when you are doing a quest there, if you don't level sync the kill doesn't count and you get no loot/ no mission update or you should get nothing even when not questing. Same for world boss, if you don't sync they are untargetable, that what should have been done, lets the crying start for a while BW gonna learn the lesson and make it optional (i hope) and that gonna means no more whining. I still gonna play since i like this game despite the flaw and solo flashpoint is something i wanted for a long time, well anyway see ya in game if ya don't chicken out

 

So... have it optional... but don't even give out the current piddly "rewards" for doing content over-leveled?

 

Huh.

[EllieAnne]

They're screwing over subs and trying to collect f2p players by releasing an expansion that is only available by subbing?

 

Guarantied it'll be F2P before the end of the year.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Guarantied it'll be F2P before the end of the year.

 

And if it isn't?

[EllieAnne]

And if it isn't?

 

Willing to make a bet? What will you do if it is F2P either announced or implemented before the end of the year?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Willing to make a bet? What will you do if it is F2P either announced or implemented before the end of the year?

 

You're the one offering, you first. But then again, you've made it clear you're unsubbing and going preferred so even if we were to make a bet you wouldn't have forum access to own up to your bet.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Reno_Tarshil

[Deyjarl]

And 44 felt strongly enough to post in favor of it at that point on that thread.

 

If there are 1000 voters in a precinct, and only 100 show up to vote... guess who's voices actually count that day...

 

If there are 100000 in a county, and 1000 answer a survey...

 

This game isn't a democracy. And even if it was, voting would be done with the players wallets. So all those player that are still playing and paying for the game have voted, and they voted they don't care about these changes as much as you do.

[Megamaid]

Here is my 2 cents on the issue, whether it matter to anyone or not.

 

Personally i like level sync, the benefits to it are numerous, especially a game that has long queues on dungeons, while that could also be solved with cross server, i think doing both are best. However, the level sync Bioware is implementing is bad. Personally my favorite form of level sync is the way FF14 a realm reborn does it. In that game level sync is only done for dungeons, that way the old content stays relevant, queue times are much shorter from the larger pool of players, and they can use old content for your daily dungeon. This helps prevent getting bored with new content helping it last longer. In WoW only the newest dungeons mean anything and after running them constantly while leveling i am done and tired with them. With level sync that will take longer, and i am still getting rewards for my actual level.

 

With that said, i am against mandatory level sync on the whole planet. While it makes sense on a lore perspective to have a Darth mob on early planets seem more powerful than a storm trooper on the newest planet it still suck when all i want to do is farm lower level mats or complete a meaningless side quest i missed before. I don't like getting knocked off my mount to fight some scrub mob, when i want to farm mats, and the fact that we keep skills means they aren't going to be that hard anyways so whats the point.

 

On the other hand, some of you want completely optional level sync, but, if that is the case will you actually ever use it, i doubt anyone will, which then makes the mechanic pointless. If it is optional they would have to remove appropriate level rewards on flashpoints, and queue will continue to suck. It is also stupid if they want to the reward player for daily and Weekly flashpoints or heroics with appropriate rewards. The same goes for achievements, why have hard to get ones, if the player can simply out level them to acquisition.

 

What i would like to see is a semi-optional level sync. What i mean is that when you go to a planet you have the choice of it being on, however if you wish to complete any daily/weekly heroic quest, or flashpoint you must be synced to get credit and get your rewards. However if you just want to go do the content for a certain gear look, you can unsync and go through that stuff quickly and easily and not feel burdened. Achievements will also require that you be synced to get them. This way you can farm your Mats quickly without getting knocked off or having to fight through mobs that just slow the game down and decrease fun.

 

The only thing this doesn't address is ganking, but this level sync that allows you to benefit from expertise and larger skill table doesn't actually address that. The higher level will still win almost all the time, unless the low level gets the drop when the other is near death, doing so isn't much better than a level 60 attacking a level 20. I like world PvP, but ganking low level or low health player is nether fun nor competitive PvP.

[EllieAnne]

On the other hand, some of you want completely optional level sync, but, if that is the case will you actually ever use it, i doubt anyone will, which then makes the mechanic pointless..

If the reward is as great as people claim it is, then why wouldn't the optional-crowd use it sometimes to farm? Especially if someone is not maxed out in levels?

 

The only thing this doesn't address is ganking, but this level sync that allows you to benefit from expertise and larger skill table doesn't actually address that. The higher level will still win almost all the time, unless the low level gets the drop when the other is near death, doing so isn't much better than a level 60 attacking a level 20. I like world PvP, but ganking low level or low health player is nether fun nor competitive PvP.

Why can't level-sync be mandatory on PvP servers like being flagged is?