Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) There are a million reasons. Asking to keep this as a toggle retains those options, and options are good. While I am not against Sync being optional, I am against it being a toggle Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You didnt reply to my question either. I did answer it. I don't always go back to those planets for a quest reward. Soemthing its just for pure entertainment for me. Thats the reward. Down scaling me. Thats not interesting and actually hinders my entertainment reward. Why do it with zero reward. "Because its not tied to reward". What is it tied to then though? Once again only thing that comes to mind from vague reply like this, is someone just likes to go oneshot things and feel powerful for 5 minutes. Is there something wrong with one shotting mobs? Pretty sure if thats someone reason for entertainment, there isn't anything wrong with that. Maybe they like soloing all that content with one shot abilities. Lord know I love to pull a pack of low level mobs and one shot them all with Force in Balance. Damn thats fun while I farm up some mats or farm some random gear I want for a particular look. Again, you don't have to understand or even care for why other like and find enjoyment in that play style. It's something gamers have enjoyed for quite a long time. You just have to know others don't play like you and it;s probably not best to put a forced down leveling on everyone, every single time the log in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllieAnne Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And we are not only talking about lvl 65's dropping down to lvl 20 on DK. When I was leveling, I purposefully was a couple levels over to solo easier. Now that strategy wont work if I am maxed out at the upper limit of the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Then wouldn't it be a better use of time to ask BW why this system is mandatory rather than already asking them to change the system? I mean, most of us don't have any insight to what goes on in there. You never know, their reason might be a perfectly good one. Though for all we know, it's all jungle-themed parties with macadamia nut cookies and tiger-skin loincloths. Already asking is because this is the only opportunity to ask them to change it. If it goes live like this, chances are we will be stuck with it. And because for a lot of people, it doesn't matter their 'reason', in an RPG, we just don't want it. Either way we are hoping for some communication, a serious justification for it being mandatory or an agreement to make it optional. But I still struggle to see any scenario were there would be a legitimate reason for it to be mandatory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Oh, I'm sure they think they have a perfectly good reason, from their perspective of trying to maximize profit while minimizing costs... Cookies cost money, just sayin'. Also, have you seen the upcoming changes to the Cartel Market? That seems more worthy of discussion than a level sync feature. Already asking is because this is the only opportunity to ask them to change it. If it goes live like this, chances are we will be stuck with it. And because for a lot of people, it doesn't matter their 'reason', in an RPG, we just don't want it. Either way we are hoping for some communication, a serious justification for it being mandatory or an agreement to make it optional. But I still struggle to see any scenario were there would be a legitimate reason for it to be mandatory. That seems like a roundabout way of asking for communication. How far do you really think a thread like "level sync=death of SWTOR" will go? The title alone will more than likely be dismissed by actual devs browsing the forums as rant-filled drivel. RandomDevBrowsingtheForum: "Nooope, not touching that with a ten-foot pole." Edited October 2, 2015 by Chelan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Maybe they like soloing all that content with one shot abilities. Lord know I love to pull a pack of low level mobs and one shot them all with Force in Balance. Damn thats fun while I farm up some mats or farm some random gear I want for a particular look. You know, this made me think of all the times I'd head back to certain areas on low level planets just to force push mobs off the edges of cliffs and bridges and the like just for hits and shiggles. And we are not only talking about lvl 65's dropping down to lvl 20 on DK. When I was leveling, I purposefully was a couple levels over to solo easier. Now that strategy wont work if I am maxed out at the upper limit of the planet. That's the crux of it right there. It's pretty much exactly like I thought it would play out as soon as I heard about the level syncing and the fact that they were not going to remove any of the side quests, yet still maintain a higher rate of leveling just through the class stories. The level syncing is their ultimate answer to people who will end up hitting max level by the time they reach Nar Shaddaa. Except of course, we no longer have the White Acute Module to allow us to opt out and continue to level at the pace that we choose. Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Just how much time do you spend on lowbie worlds that you won't see your actual level? What dailies are being introduced with the expansion? Are they like level 10 or something? Seems snarky, but really, since they're increasing the cap, and buffing up the old Ops so they can be level appropriate at the new cap, how will you not be able to see your actual level there? You have a dummy, according to your post, so you practice for something. I sincerely hope you don't need that much practice to blow up the slugs on Korriban, at 60. Yes you are being snarky, I never mentioned slugs on Korriban Obviously the amount of time people spend on words (it's not just lowbie worlds - it's any world where there will be level sync) varies amongst players. For some people they never go there, others spend a lot of time there. This isn't about dailies introduced in the expansion, eh? A lot of people like to run the black hole or section x ones at a level 60. I don't do ops, so perhaps you'll see your true level a great deal more than me. Shame that i'm the one more interested in the RPG side and getting to use my full level. Sorry I didn't add /s to my point about the dummy, I was making the point that that will be one of the few things now I'll be able to see my full power on. Edited October 2, 2015 by ZavienUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Oh, I'm sure they think they have a perfectly good reason, from their perspective of trying to maximize profit while minimizing costs... /5char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Is there something wrong with one shotting mobs? Pretty sure if thats someone reason for entertainment, there isn't anything wrong with that. Maybe they like soloing all that content with one shot abilities. Lord know I love to pull a pack of low level mobs and one shot them all with Force in Balance. Damn thats fun while I farm up some mats or farm some random gear I want for a particular look. No, go farm heroic mobs all you want. Nothing wrong with that. But let me pull my old WB and PVP example out, again. Remember when we had lowbie raids for WBs? Those dont happen anymore because max-lvls think its fun to farm them solo, and WBs are dead most of their spawn time, because max-lv roflstomp. Also, it is so easy for 60 to go farm lowbi playerkills on bowbi planets with current system it would be absolutely hilarious, if they wouldnt be rewarded by BW for easy kills. I too, have facerolled WBs for cosmetics and whatnot, but if I'd have to choose between lvlsync above issues or continue let max-lvs faceroll everything, I'd choose the sync. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You know, this made me think of all the times I'd head back to certain areas on low level planets just to force push mobs off the edges of cliffs and bridges and the like just for hits and shiggles. BINGO. Sometimes it's the little things that make the best experiences. down leveling wont kill that completely but those mobs are now more likely to resist things Im sure. More likely to pull useless POS mobs I don't care for. Down leveling everyone is nice as an optional feature. Forced on everyone because they logged in? Not so enjoyable. Might as well make everyone PVP and be forced to run OPS as well while their designing game play features that are forced on individuals and especially on play styles gamers have been enjoying for years and the game didn't "F"ing fall apart either because if it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 That's a very limited definition of RPG isn't it? Do you run out between sessions and whack stuff with your lightsaber in real life, thus playing a Sith or a Jedi isn't playing a role? That's part and parcel of RPG, it's even what it means: Role Playing Game, not SPG, Stat Playing Game. Ok mr pedantic, I'll accept there are RPG's without levels, point retratcted. Replace all instances of RPG with 'stat based levelling game'. Happy now? Whatever you want to call it, I enjoy that aspect of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 While I am not against Sync being optional, I am against it being a toggle I had to read that more than twice! I think your over reading the use of the word toggle, I don't think we are suggesting people should be able to turn it on and off at a whim, that would just be silly. I'd always assumed you would have to decide before travelling to a planet. As to whether level synced vs non level synced should be in a different instance, well that a whole different debate entirely, we have to get the option first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yes you are being snarky, I never mentioned slugs on Korriban Obviously the amount of time people spend on words (it's not just lowbie worlds - it's any world where their will be level sync) varies amongst players. For some people they never go there, others spend a lot of time there. This isn't about dailies introduced in the expansion, eh? A lot of people like to run the black hole or section x ones at a level 60. I don't do ops, so perhaps you'll see your true level a great deal more than me. Shame that i'm the one more interested in the RPG side and getting to use my full level. Sorry I didn't add /s to my point about the dummy, I was making the point that that will be one of the few things now I'll be able to see my full power on. I replied to what you said about not ever being able to see your actual level. In level appropriate content, you'll be able to look at it all you want. I can't imagine Ziost will be all that drastic, Oricon won't be too bad either, until you're around 65. Section X? If I need a quick 100k, sure, other than that, I haven't been in a very long time on a lot of toons. The thing is, I don't see the need to be hangin' out on Korriban, or DK, or Taris, depending on faction. I did the Nar Shaddaa bonus series, once, on the Pub side, because a comp's personal quest took me there. I'm there a lot, but so is my SH... However, and here we are back to "RPG means my stats", that's not all there is to an RPG. There's new story content coming out where I bet you won't even see any level sync. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 That seems like a roundabout way of asking for communication. How far do you really think a thread like "level sync=death of SWTOR" will go? The title alone will more than likely be dismissed by actual devs browsing the forums as rant-filled drivel. RandomDevBrowsingtheForum: "Nope, not touching that with a ten-foot pole." Yeah it's a real shame that when the moderator merged the threads, they kept the one with the hyperbolic title rather than the one that was titled 'Level Sync Confirmed'. Frustrating, but what are we to do. The moderator understandably wants all feedback kept in a single thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No, go farm heroic mobs all you want. Nothing wrong with that. But let me pull my old WB and PVP example out, again. Remember when we had lowbie raids for WBs? Those dont happen anymore because max-lvls think its fun to farm them solo, and WBs are dead most of their spawn time, because max-lv roflstomp. Also, it is so easy for 60 to go farm lowbi playerkills on bowbi planets with current system it would be absolutely hilarious, if they wouldnt be rewarded by BW for easy kills. I too, have facerolled WBs for cosmetics and whatnot, but if I'd have to choose between lvlsync above issues or continue let max-lvs faceroll everything, I'd choose the sync. Valid concerns, but personally speaking on the servers I have played on, problems that I have not really seen manifest themselves in any way as to be any more problematic than any other issues in the game. And again, level syncing will not stop the griefing in either case. Griefers will always find a way to grief - heck there are whole groups of them that play games just to be able to grief others. Level syncing will not stop the ganking, nor will it stop the WBs from being killed before you get your chance to fight it. However, there are other methods to fight the problems you speak of without forcing a system on the entire playerbase that can greatly affect a player's enjoyment of the content - as much, if not more, than the problems that you mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No, go farm heroic mobs all you want. Nothing wrong with that. But let me pull my old WB and PVP example out, again. Remember when we had lowbie raids for WBs? Those dont happen anymore because max-lvls think its fun to farm them solo, and WBs are dead most of their spawn time, because max-lv roflstomp. Also, it is so easy for 60 to go farm lowbi playerkills on bowbi planets with current system it would be absolutely hilarious, if they wouldnt be rewarded by BW for easy kills. I too, have facerolled WBs for cosmetics and whatnot, but if I'd have to choose between lvlsync above issues or continue let max-lvs faceroll everything, I'd choose the sync. And I'd be the opposite, I'd rather no have level sync along with the problems that brings (i.e. world bosses always being dead) than it being forced on me. Guess people are different, who'd have thunk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) I had to read that more than twice! I think your over reading the use of the word toggle, I don't think we are suggesting people should be able to turn it on and off at a whim, that would just be silly. I'd always assumed you would have to decide before travelling to a planet. As to whether level synced vs non level synced should be in a different instance, well that a whole different debate entirely, we have to get the option first! The only "Toggles" we currently have on planets, are flagging for pvp on pve servers, and bolster on makeb and fleet. That is how I imagined the "toggles" in this game would work. On fp you can choose HM or Normal mode, but those are also instanced and not on planets. They would have to make yet another system to allowe such a "toggle" for this Sync, as the only ones we currently have usable on planets are basically usable by whim. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZavienUK Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I replied to what you said about not ever being able to see your actual level. In level appropriate content, you'll be able to look at it all you want. I can't imagine Ziost will be all that drastic, Oricon won't be too bad either, until you're around 65. Section X? If I need a quick 100k, sure, other than that, I haven't been in a very long time on a lot of toons. The thing is, I don't see the need to be hangin' out on Korriban, or DK, or Taris, depending on faction. I did the Nar Shaddaa bonus series, once, on the Pub side, because a comp's personal quest took me there. I'm there a lot, but so is my SH... However, and here we are back to "RPG means my stats", that's not all there is to an RPG. There's new story content coming out where I bet you won't even see any level sync. Actually I think your missing a lot of what this expansion is about. They are intending people to spend a lot of time on the old worlds, and so they won't be seeing their level when there. And of course there will be new high level content where there won't be level sync, but doesn't change the complaints about this. And in any case this isn't JUST about the level, that is one aspect, it's been done to death all the other things that will be affected by this change. And once again, just because you don't do something, it doesn't mean others don't. You might hate section x with a passion, but people are different. People play in different ways, what we are asking for is for options not to be removed. And i've replied to your post about RPG already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Valid concerns, but personally speaking on the servers I have played on, problems that I have not really seen manifest themselves in any way as to be any more problematic than any other issues in the game. And again, level syncing will not stop the griefing in either case. Griefers will always find a way to grief - heck there are whole groups of them that play games just to be able to grief others. Level syncing will not stop the ganking, nor will it stop the WBs from being killed before you get your chance to fight it. However, there are other methods to fight the problems you speak of without forcing a system on the entire playerbase that can greatly affect a player's enjoyment of the content - as much, if not more, than the problems that you mention. Wrong. While it wont "stop" griefing, (never expected it would) it would conciderably lower it. Group ganking is just something that will always happen on pvp servers, however, lv60 vs lv20 is propably not what the devs had in mind when designing world pvp. WBs can still be dead, but atleast they need a group for them now. downscaled 60 can still come and own you with million more skills than you have, but they will no longer by untouchable by the lv 20, who with current system would just deflect every attempt by the lowbi. There is a big difference, and griefers will now have to work harder to grief, which i am totally ok with. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kiesu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Wrong. While it wont "stop" griefing, (never expected it would) it would conciderably lower it. Group ganking is just something that will always happen on pvp servers, however, lv60 vs lv20 is propably not what the devs had in mind when designing world pvp. WBs can still be dead, but atleast they need a group for them now. downscaled 60 can still come and own you with million more skills than you have, but they will no longer by untouchable by the lv 20, who with current system would just deflect every attempt by the lowbi. There is a big difference, and griefers will now have to work harder to grief, which i am totally ok with. And in all reality, how much harder will they really have to work? I don't foresee that much of a difference - kinda like trying to stop gold farming spam and the like. Regardless, again, there are other methods, and ones that are probably more effective, to dealing with said issues without "resorting" to a forced level scaling system. Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Wrong. While it wont "stop" griefing, (never expected it would) it would conciderably lower it. That is incorrect in every possible way. You will never stop nor hinder ganking in any conceivable way. Down scaling or not. Group ganking is just something that will always happen on pvp servers, however, lv60 vs lv20 is propably not what the devs had in mind when designing world pvp. WBs can still be dead, but atleast they need a group for them now. So its still dead but thank God only one person didn't do it? Thats your backing for down scaling everyone in the game? Because one perosn killed a world boss before you and will still kill it and you'll be no part of it either way but damn, lets kill off their solo fun. downscaled 60 can still come and own you with million more skills than you have, but they will no longer by untouchable by the lv 20, who with current system would just deflect every attempt by the lowbi. There is a big difference, and griefers will now have to work harder to grief, which i am totally ok with. Not a chance in hell will it be even close. If a level 65 PVPer in gear jumps a level 20 who is actually level 20. That fight is some big difference to warrant down scaling everyone in the game for such a minor chance. The skills alone will make so much of a difference and thats before you take just being ganked into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And in all reality, how much harder will they really have to work? I don't foresee that much of a difference - kinda like trying to stop gold farming spam and the like. Regardless, again, there are other methods, and ones that are probably more effective, to dealing with said issues without "resorting" to a forced level scaling system. Goldfarmingspam is quite different, hehe. Also I just demonstrated how it would change it, and it would quite a lot already. We saw the difference of synced 60 vs actual 60 performance in the stream quite clearly. Im sure you can do the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiesu Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 blablaIdisagreewitheverythingsnip "This will never happen raa raa raa!" I shall wait till expansion to see the actual difference and test it myself, rather than theorize doom and gloom over it. I am happy about the potential, you are not. I get it. Preaching impossibru is kinda hilarious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Goldfarmingspam is quite different, hehe. Also I just demonstrated how it would change it, and it would quite a lot already. We saw the difference of synced 60 vs actual 60 performance in the stream quite clearly. Im sure you can do the math. So the lowbie noob is three-shot instead of one-shot? Like Quraswren said above, leveling syncing isn't really going to make all that much difference - but hey, if it truly does make an improvement, then that's great. However, like I have said twice, and now will say thrice, there are more effective ways of combating those issues without using a forced level scaling system. Edited October 2, 2015 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheerlpool Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Goldfarmingspam is quite different, hehe. Also I just demonstrated how it would change it, and it would quite a lot already. We saw the difference of synced 60 vs actual 60 performance in the stream quite clearly. Im sure you can do the math. LOOL LAST 5 HOURS ON TOFN REALLY HELL they SPAMMING ON NON STOP MODE EVERY 7 SECONDS FROM 3 ACCAUNTS ... I GOT 5 INGAME MAILS FROM KORRIBAN GUY AT 1 HOUR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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