*RANT* **** These broken *** OP/Scoundrel Classes

[helpmewin]

operatives are fine, a class that can solo every class in the game but shadow/assassins is fine, and needs a buff, so he can also 1v1 shadows with no problem.

 

MMO never balanced around 1 v 1. Pre 3.0 sins was in the same position as con oper right now. If u have problems with oper in 1 vs 1 - roll oper then.

And yes oper better than sins - in regs as node guarder, ninja caps, better in grp 4*4 - less RNG-ed burst and roll + can carry, not about open and CC-s as sin, but sin better in 4*4 DPS yolo fight coz 2 escapes and CC immunity.

Edited September 24, 2015 by helpmewin

[Hiro_Wildfire]

And guardians are the easiest to kill on operative.

 

Nah, maruder's are easier personaly.

 

 

operatives are fine, a class that can solo every class in the game but shadow/assassins is fine, and needs a buff, so he can also 1v1 shadows with no problem.

 

in truth, any class can 1v1 another. Operatives just have an advantage in the area over neerly all other classes. Then again, they have their disadvantages as well in a large skirmish fight. If targetted and hit ahrd, stopping their attacking to use defensive's is a fair trade off.

 

You've got sin's who are better in a large fight, but miss out a tiny bit in a 1v1 compaired to an op. I think that's a fair example at least.

[power-alex]

Nah, maruder's are easier personaly.

 

yeah, maras are squishier.

This is why I love watching this )) http://www.twitch.tv/mosh47/v/17329736

But to be fair, mosh is top 5 rated operative/scoundrel, so he knew how to counter operative. And that guy was thrown by the 6 second cc immunity and blew a hard stun and a flash into it. Still a great duel to watch.

Edited September 24, 2015 by power-alex

[Liquor]

What's funny is I get these hate whispers too...I'm an Op Healer...if that says anything about these kind of rant posts.

 

These average operative and scoundrel players you speak of don't use keybinds and are keyboard turners.

The good scoundrel and operative players will kill you because they know how to play their role and know your class's weakness.

 

Just sounds like a bad complaining again and calling for unneeded nerfs on a class that has been nerfed far too many times to count...

 

 

When an operative pops and hits you, don't panic. Kite them, stun them, call for help if guarding a node. You get stunned? Call for help and don't burn your stun breaker on flash bang. That's a waste.

 

I dont have to kill you, everytime.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3YdusXgim4&list=PLHUVjJ925gvkwvecjaHhx1dnLkvF46fMP

Edited September 24, 2015 by Liquor

[jedcjedcjedc]

Comments in red, l2p.

saying l2p when you don't even know a stun is 4 seconds?

 

What's funny is I get these hate whispers too...I'm an Op Healer...if that says anything about these kind of rant posts.

 

These average operative and scoundrel players you speak of don't use keybinds and are keyboard turners.

The good scoundrel and operative players will kill you because they know how to play their role and know your class's weakness.

 

Just sounds like a bad complaining again and calling for unneeded nerfs on a class that has been nerfed far too many times to count...

 

 

When an operative pops and hits you, don't panic. Kite them, stun them, call for help if guarding a node. You get stunned? Call for help and don't burn your stun breaker on flash bang. That's a waste.

 

I dont have to kill you, everytime.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3YdusXgim4&list=PLHUVjJ925gvkwvecjaHhx1dnLkvF46fMP

 

all that shows is some really terrible guarding

[Torvai]

saying l2p when you don't even know a stun is 4 seconds?

His post went "stun stab stab", meaning 3 globals=4.5 seconds. So the stun actually runs out during the second stab mentioned in his ridiculous post.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Torvai

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Nah, maruder's are easier personaly.

 

 

 

 

in truth, any class can 1v1 another. Operatives just have an advantage in the area over neerly all other classes. Then again, they have their disadvantages as well in a large skirmish fight. If targetted and hit ahrd, stopping their attacking to use defensive's is a fair trade off.

 

You've got sin's who are better in a large fight, but miss out a tiny bit in a 1v1 compaired to an op. I think that's a fair example at least.

 

try to 1v1 an op as a merc or even better as a sorc . IF op is bad u probably take him under 40%, if op is decent u die, if op is strong u probably won't take him under 70%

[Hiro_Wildfire]

depends how good the merc or sorc is >.>

 

It gives them a good advantage, not an automatic win as you make it sound.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Hiro_Wildfire

[Torvai]

snip

 

Maybe you should go and read my posts again? I even stated that ops are the best 1vs1 class atm. But that doesn't make them OP. That still only makes them the best 1vs1 class.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

depends how good the merc or sorc is >.>

 

It gives them a good advantage, not an automatic win as you make it sound.

 

equal skilled, op will always win, just because u can avoid burst and cleanse dot at the same time, a think sorcs and mercs can't do.

 

Not an auto win, of course auto win are a myth, BUT we are very close to it. I just would like a roll nerf, rest can stay. A nerf roll, or just an engine fix, because u can disappear from the game while backsatbbing me without the chance to focus you

Edited September 24, 2015 by xX-Archangel-Xx

[Hiro_Wildfire]

right, time to do some mythbusting!

 

u can avoid burst and cleanse dot at the same time

The evasion (Which has a 1 min CD and let's us dodge all white damage if we're not cc'd) That's differant from the rollt hat prevents all damage to us for 1.5 seconds. So many people seem to think that the operative's roll purges DoT's when it dosen't.

 

BUT we are very close to it.

Naah, I wouldn't say so. Then again, personal oppinion.

 

 

u can disappear from the game while backsatbbing me without the chance to focus you

Not really o.0, the roll dosen't operate off the GCD so they cannot disapepar while backstabbing you.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

right, time to do some mythbusting!

 

 

The evasion (Which has a 1 min CD and let's us dodge all white damage if we're not cc'd) That's differant from the rollt hat prevents all damage to us for 1.5 seconds. So many people seem to think that the operative's roll purges DoT's when it dosen't.

 

 

Naah, I wouldn't say so. Then again, personal oppinion.

 

 

 

Not really o.0, the roll dosen't operate off the GCD so they cannot disapepar while backstabbing you.

 

 

1) i know roll doesn't clease, evasion does, and u can avoid damage with roll and clease damage with evasion at the same time. I just typed it wrong

 

 

2) if u think merc can easikly 1v1 an operative u must be 1 top tier merc ever

 

3) yes, becasue after a roll u disappear for 2-3 secs, which is enough time to just re positioning urself behind the target without the chance to do a thing. And that just becase the game do not refresh ur position until 3 secs later i guess hero engine finest feature

Edited September 24, 2015 by xX-Archangel-Xx

[Hiro_Wildfire]

2) if u think merc can easikly 1v1 an operative u must be 1 top tier merc ever

 

3) yes, becasue after a roll u disappear for 2-3 secs, which is enough time to just re positioning urself behind the target without the chance to do a thing. And that just becase the game do not refresh ur position until 3 secs later i guess hero engine finest feature

Personaly I've played against plenty of ops, and I never have this problem of them disappearing for 2-3 seconds, or being unable to react in time. Now that may just be my luck for haveing a decent connection or my computer spec, but I don't have it (Unless its up a ramp)

 

I also never said anything about a merc being able to 'easily' 1v1 an op, it would be hard but doable if the merc really knows their stuff and the operative does not.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Personaly I've played against plenty of ops, and I never have this problem of them disappearing for 2-3 seconds, or being unable to react in time. Now that may just be my luck for haveing a decent connection or my computer spec, but I don't have it (Unless its up a ramp)

 

I also never said anything about a merc being able to 'easily' 1v1 an op, it would be hard but doable if the merc really knows their stuff and the operative does not.

 

its probably a mix of connection and engine, becase they vergy often disappear from my sight for 2 3 secs giving them enough time to keep attack me, without beeing" visible"

[foxmob]

Personaly I've played against plenty of ops, and I never have this problem of them disappearing for 2-3 seconds, or being unable to react in time. Now that may just be my luck for haveing a decent connection or my computer spec, but I don't have it (Unless its up a ramp)

 

I also never said anything about a merc being able to 'easily' 1v1 an op, it would be hard but doable if the merc really knows their stuff and the operative does not.

 

it's only a regular occurrence when the op rolls over an elevation change. the worst examples of this are on the ramps following the first fire pits on the 2nd level of the pit. you also get it a lot on the first, wide ramp immediately after the acid pit and on the steeper ramps along the sides of mid that take you up to the 2nd level platform. what happens isn't that they disappear but that they roll through the ramp and appear down in the bottom of the pit and stay there, executing abilities and moving for 1-3 seconds. in that time, they are actually still on the top level and god knows where or how far they've moved (did he double roll? did he go left or right? etc.).

 

but I have never ever had him simply disappear for 3s...unless...you know...he broke combat with stealth. lol

Edited September 24, 2015 by foxmob

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

it's only a regular occurrence when the op rolls over an elevation change. the worst examples of this are on the ramps following the first fire pits on the 2nd level of the pit. you also get it a lot on the first, wide ramp immediately after the acid pit and on the steeper ramps along the sides of mid that take you up to the 2nd level platform. what happens isn't that they disappear but that they roll through the ramp and appear down in the bottom of the pit and stay there, executing abilities and moving for 1-3 seconds. in that time, they are actually still on the top level and god knows where or how far they've moved (did he double roll? did he go left or right? etc.).

 

but I have never ever had him simply disappear for 3s...unless...you know...he broke combat with stealth. lol

 

same but it happens even os smallers ramp like the one on corellia square

[Xanas]

I do agree they are OP as all hell. I main a jugg/guardian. If the player is really good (the most important part) I can't even scratch him. I know this game is not balanced around 1vs1 but no class should be this good at 1vs1. This reminds me about the younger days of WoW where naked rogues where killing other classes.

 

Tank God 95% of them are not that good and I can fight back and even win.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Xanas

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

I do agree they are OP as all hell. I main a jugg/guardian. If the OP is really good (the most important part) I can't even scratch him. I know this game is not balanced around 1vs1 but no class should be this good at 1vs1. This reminds me about the younger days of WoW where naked rogues where killing other classes.

 

Tank God 95% of them are not that good and I can fight back and even win.

 

ofc they are not, ppl is just re rolling them becase they are fine

[Hiro_Wildfire]

yeaa, i don't see hordes of operatives in pvp from re-rolled masses. There's not hordes of them flooding ranked either?

 

Funnily I generaly see more sorc's, guardian's or assassin's.

[helpmewin]

yeaa, i don't see hordes of operatives in pvp from re-rolled masses. There's not hordes of them flooding ranked either?

 

Funnily I generaly see more sorc's, guardian's or assassin's.

 

Definitely, there is more opers, but it is far not re-rollers masses. And yes there is hordes of juggernauts, sins and sorcs in all specs.

Edited September 24, 2015 by helpmewin

[Xanas]

yeaa, i don't see hordes of operatives in pvp from re-rolled masses. There's not hordes of them flooding ranked either?

 

Funnily I generaly see more sorc's, guardian's or assassin's.

 

They are not everywhere since you need to know what you are doing when playing them. If you don't you get screwed. If the potency of the class would remain unchanged but the skill level required to play them effectively would decrease you would see them everywhere.

 

Definitely, there is more opers, but it is far not re-rollers masses. And yes there is hordes of juggernauts, sins and sorcs in all specs.

 

Funny enough I see Juggs/guards very little in WZ's when I que on TOFN lately. Sorcs and sins yeah, everywhere but that is to be expected considering the place they are in right now.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Xanas

[allexj]

The biggest thing is they can off heal themselves, I main a Shadow tank, off char are senti and sage heals. That roll is dumbly OP, the CD needs to be increased also the roll is a escape so if they use it they should get a significant debuff to damage and a increase to defence. And the off heals have got to go! If you are useing heals then when in a DPS spec you need a healing output debuff. Edited September 24, 2015 by allexj

[PaulusMaulus]

Comments in red, l2p.

Also, Maul, VS? Deception Sin complaining about Ops?

 

What is not being discussed is that a few clasess need LOS in order to deal damage. Beyond the stuns the Operative has, the back stab is the most annoying because as I main a Sage, it means I am unable to turn around to deal damage and that itself, is the equivalent of a stun. So instead, I have to drop my AOE to inflict damage but even that often times has to take second place since staying alive against an Op is primary.

[Hiro_Wildfire]

The biggest thing is they can off heal themselves, I main a Shadow tank, off char are senti and sage heals. That roll is dumbly OP, the CD needs to be increased also the roll is a escape so if they use it they should get a significant debuff to damage and a increase to defence. And the off heals have got to go! If you are useing heals then when in a DPS spec you need a healing output debuff.

 

Compaired to a sage healer's self healing,t hey're really not all that powerful. THey also take time to tick and cost 2GCD's to apply.

 

As for the roll, it does debuff damage and increase defence, your immune to being attacked while rolling, while you also cannot attack while in the roll, it consumes 1 GCD, that is its trade-off.

 

 

Beyond the stuns the Operative has, the back stab is the most annoying because as I main a Sage, it means I am unable to turn around to deal damage and that itself, is the equivalent of a stun. So instead, I have to drop my AOE to inflict damage but even that often times has to take second place since staying alive against an Op is primary.

 

o.0 The backstab can be specced to root you for 3 seconds, however it does not stop you from turning. Crippling slice can do this however, its a root that stops you from turning. Sages can spec force speed to break roots.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Hiro_Wildfire

[Qui_Jon]

IMO which is not very pvp experienced I am afraid, the stunny little stabby classes have a lot of power based on that stealth. Now I understand that they are given that power based on not having a lot of resistanced compared to their opponents, but I think it has gotten beyond where it was intended to go.

 

PVP in swtor overall seems to ignore class roles a lot. Where these burst classes should be able to stealth in lay some smackdown on and then stealth away, the point should be for then a heavier hitting sustained damage dealer to take them out the rest of the way. But that extra help is not needed. And the same thing could be said for other classes, a sorc drops a lot of damage and can take a lot of damage when they should need a tank really to help shield them, but the game mechanics don't really require it.

 

The problem is when you get into pvp is that everyone wants to be the hero suddenly rather then simply fulfilling their role anymore. And you get OP classes as such those classes get way to many players because of it, then you get rage ranting and eventually they get nerfed and a new OP class takes their place rinse and repeat.

 

It would be nice to see the problem approached from the other side of the coin, rather then nerfing the stabby why not give skils to the other classes to help prevent it from being exploited. Everyone complains about controlling, stuns, sleeps roots etc, so why not deal with that, it should be a part of the game yes, but perhaps look at the way resolve is actually working if I can be chain stunned from full health to death before a resolve bar maxes out then I think their is a problem there. Allow our breakfrees to have use and make the use worthwhile even if not at full resolve by them granting 30 seconds of full resistance to stuns and holds. So if I use break free then I can atleast still attack and pop defenses even if I cant move or run. I can attack back. Most are on a 2 minute cool down so 25 percent of your game basicly you could be fully resistant IMO doesn't break the mold, and allows for the burst classes to be taken down a notch or two by way of buffing abilities rather then nerfing a class.