Why scaling should not be optional

[Max_Killjoy]

So where are all the people who told us we were arguing and worrying over "nothing"?

[Rafaman]

Well, well, well. Here is this thread again. Shall we spin it all backup?

 

So, YES!!! BW congrats. You have some brass ones. Level sync is a great idea.

 

 

Old content will be relevant again even if it is just for a little while.

Vets can do content with lowbies at level. Great for grouping, guilds, and replay-ability.

Openworld will have a sense of danger as it should.

Certain achievements will require thought and skill.

WB mechanics and takedowns will mean something.

Openworld PvP will be less of a gank fest.

 

 

OUTSTANDING!

 

As for those that feel slighted, the ones that feel like their rights have been trampled, I really hope you give it a try and evaluate what this really means in terms of gameplay and what you are looking for. You are still going to be OP and my guess is, at least as it relates to Heroics, you will still be able to solo some content.

 

For players who have been looking for an excuse to leave like Maxi, "boom goes the dynamite."

Edited October 1, 2015 by Rafaman

[Max_Killjoy]

Hey, instead of me leaving now, how about I make it like you're gone forever?

 

Not like there's any reason to keep reading your incessant attempts to belittle and demean anyone who doesn't agree with you in hopes that they'll leave. Sorry the forums aren't a happy-funtime echo-chamber of Bioware-love.

 

Bye.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[Faelandaea]

incessant attempts to belittle and demean anyone who doesn't agree with you in hopes that they'll leave.

 

Holy hell, this kid just described himself to a tee.

 

And by the way - it was still over nothing. The people who were saying as such right now are content after the live stream and now happily in the game playing - except me. I have to go to work

Edited October 1, 2015 by Faelandaea

[APhantasm]

And? How is that any different from now?

 

Also, world bosses don't get one shot no matter what level you are.

 

True they can't one shot a world boss. But right now a level 60 can solo a world boss. I myself have seen people gathering groups to do the world boss and in comes a level 60 and wipes it out before the groups can form.

[TUXs]

So where are all the people who told us we were arguing and worrying over "nothing"?

Right lol? They insisted they were just "rumors". I'll tell you where they are Max...they're right back here rubbing it in. They don't care that they were wrong, they only want to antagonize others.

[Sardoni]

• I avoided heroics for leveling two years ago because they were tedious. There was no challenge to most of them. Just green rooms or open world areas with either large mob density or mobs with lots of health. Reminded me of vanilla wow 40 man raid trash clearing.

• I avoided heroics for leveling last month because 12x exp on class quests was far more appealing.

• I'll continue to avoid heroics for leveling purposes unless there's some new currency or rep attached to going back in time on my character's story and doing those old planets again.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is even with the planets being scaled or not being scaled they haven't incentivized or de-incentivized me from ever going back to a planet once I've "left it" for much of anything. I quite literally just went to the last few planets I had left to knock out that Galactic Hero legacy title and the only people I saw in the Hoth/Corellia/Alderaan heroic areas were the lvl 55 bots/gold farmers. I had wondered where they were. They just sit there endlessly killing groups of mobs. They were polite at least. They let me kill the targets I needed before moving back to mowing things down. So the only thing I predict scaling will do is POTENTIALLY raise the cost of credits since they will have to find new spots.

[Uruare]

Yeah, but don't listen to the alarmist. Nothing will be blocked or impossible. All you need to do is be creative. Yes, some things will require a group, but so what? If you are in a guild, that is easily remedied. And my guess is that H4's, for example, will suddenly become relevant again even if you are not in a guild. People will be looking for groups.

 

You are not entitled to do anything solo. You are required to work for your rewards. And hey, I think it is great that grouping is not irrelevant. This is an MMO.

 

As for datacrons? Amping up the challenge makes them worth more IMO. Having to worry about mobs in an area, or finding ways to sneak into an enemy faction area to get your datacron will be great fun.

 

Contrary to your all-roses outlook, I suspect that people in droves just won't bother doing them at all unless the rewards are genuinely worth the hassle of grouping.

 

Getting groups, even if one is in a full and active guild, isn't guaranteed.

 

Point in fact, there's nothing when remotely assuring that your guild will even care about that crap, because we can absolutely predict that heroics aren't going to be as rewarding as HMFP's.

 

You'll probably be fine in such a guild for doing FP's... Like most of us that so that already are.

 

Heroics? Sorry bub, but they're not going to make them rewarding on parity with flashpoints, and of the rewards aren't with the hassle of going to the heroic area... We're not going.

 

Good luck finding a niche for a grouping guild that cares much about farming heroics when farming fp's is just plain better.

[robertthebard]

Contrary to your all-roses outlook, I suspect that people in droves just won't bother doing them at all unless the rewards are genuinely worth the hassle of grouping.

 

Getting groups, even if one is in a full and active guild, isn't guaranteed.

 

Point in fact, there's nothing when remotely assuring that your guild will even care about that crap, because we can absolutely predict that heroics aren't going to be as rewarding as HMFP's.

 

You'll probably be fine in such a guild for doing FP's... Like most of us that so that already are.

 

Heroics? Sorry bub, but they're not going to make them rewarding on parity with flashpoints, and of the rewards aren't with the hassle of going to the heroic area... We're not going.

 

Good luck finding a niche for a grouping guild that cares much about farming heroics when farming fp's is just plain better.

 

So then what's the issue, again? If, as you postulate, they're not worth going, why are people here complaining that they can't go roflstomp them again? Either something is worth doing, or it isn't, but this post sort of flies in the face of any reason to even complain about it. How will something that you're not touching now adversely affect you when you're not doing it later?

[Uruare]

So then what's the issue, again? If, as you postulate, they're not worth going, why are people here complaining that they can't go roflstomp them again? Either something is worth doing, or it isn't, but this post sort of flies in the face of any reason to even complain about it. How will something that you're not touching now adversely affect you when you're not doing it later?

 

My only issue is to do with why it's not optional.

 

It's a perfectly fine thing to add, but it'd be that exactly the same plus not piss anybody off if it were simply optional.

 

Hence my confusion. Nothing would be lost to make a toggle for it, and it'd completely erase all the complaints.

 

Making it mandatory isn't going to suddenly make the masses suddenly join guilds and group for everything because it's still going be as much a nuisance as ever it was to do that.

 

So the heroics will, for level sync'd players, be rewarding with on level goodies. That's great.

 

It's also not likely going to be something that dramatically alters anyone's current priorities. HMFP's and ops are still where the good gears going to come from. Running around on various planets at max level will be more tedious in every situation except when you're running with lower level folks with the intent to help them and not nuke their xp.

 

It seems unnecessarily hamfisted to force it.

 

And that's not a cheerful feeling.

[Uruare]

Just to be fair to everyone...

 

From what I have been reading the main reason people want scaling to be optional is soloing old fp's....from what I am reading here http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations-and-flashpoints-fallen-empire...most of the story fp's are going solo mode anyway. So in theory that is gone.

 

Can't help a lower level....in reality this means I can't jump on my geared max level and beat it in 2 secs and the person who wanted help just gets a pass....i see people complaining about bad players....logically what makes them bad? Getting free passes like that...

 

Mind you I honestly don't care if it is optional or not....I just thought as there is a pro optional thread there should be one that focuses on why it shouldnt be

 

Fair is a lie, there're only those that survive and those that don't.

 

That aside, I can't think of any particular reasons why it shouldn't be optional. Certainly not any really good ones.

[robertthebard]

My only issue is to do with why it's not optional.

 

It's a perfectly fine thing to add, but it'd be that exactly the same plus not piss anybody off if it were simply optional.

 

Hence my confusion. Nothing would be lost to make a toggle for it, and it'd completely erase all the complaints.

 

Making it mandatory isn't going to suddenly make the masses suddenly join guilds and group for everything because it's still going be as much a nuisance as ever it was to do that.

 

So the heroics will, for level sync'd players, be rewarding with on level goodies. That's great.

 

It's also not likely going to be something that dramatically alters anyone's current priorities. HMFP's and ops are still where the good gears going to come from. Running around on various planets at max level will be more tedious in every situation except when you're running with lower level folks with the intent to help them and not nuke their xp.

 

It seems unnecessarily hamfisted to force it.

 

And that's not a cheerful feeling.

 

Except that it wouldn't be. If they're going to have it, they're going to have to "force" it, because if not, those that are using it will be repeatedly griefed by those that aren't. It happens now. I had a guy crying for an hour on Xiost because he jumped a node while I was clearing it, and then I jumped two of his. I had a guy on CZ cry for I'm not sure how long when he tried to jump a node on my Assassin, but I force cloaked out of combat, and laughed while the Elite mob I'd been fighting killed him. These things are going on w/out the scaling, and they'll continue to go on with it, if it's optional, because no matter what BW does, they can't change those people that are too lazy to kill the mobs around a quest node/crafting mat/security chest. I've already seen "but clearing mobs is too inconvenient, I just want to get my nodes" used as an argument against it.

[Bakakiba]

So where are all the people who told us we were arguing and worrying over "nothing"?

 

They're here, and they were right.

[Uruare]

Except that it wouldn't be. If they're going to have it, they're going to have to "force" it, because if not, those that are using it will be repeatedly griefed by those that aren't. It happens now. I had a guy crying for an hour on Xiost because he jumped a node while I was clearing it, and then I jumped two of his. I had a guy on CZ cry for I'm not sure how long when he tried to jump a node on my Assassin, but I force cloaked out of combat, and laughed while the Elite mob I'd been fighting killed him. These things are going on w/out the scaling, and they'll continue to go on with it, if it's optional, because no matter what BW does, they can't change those people that are too lazy to kill the mobs around a quest node/crafting mat/security chest. I've already seen "but clearing mobs is too inconvenient, I just want to get my nodes" used as an argument against it.

 

My experiences in City of Heroes, Champions Online, RIFT and even, for the counter perspective, GW2 strictly suggest to me that you're basically just wrong.

 

Entirely incorrect.

 

People don't, in vast majority, give that much of a hoot about anyone else. Those that are going to grief others will do so however they can, and this system is no more going to discourage that than its absence encouraged it.

 

In three different games featuring the option to lower your level and play with lower level people as well as get rewards for doing content why then at their level, in what amounts to likely having been over 20,000 hours of okay across those games over the years, I cannot remember one single time when I ever even heard of someone being frittered because they were sk'd or mentored down... And I don't think anyone goes surround hawkishly watching for the downscaled to snickeringly grief them when they find them.

 

I played city of Heroes from its launch to its closure, and I never saw the optional sidekick system be a problem in such fashion at all, or in any such fashion that I can recollect. Ditto for Champions Online.

 

Ditto for RIFT, which is a great deal like SWTOR in terms of its general gameplay and WoW-knockoff basic design. Mentoring in RIFT is optional everywhere except in random adventure teams, wherein which everyone's level is scaled to the region and everyone gets xp and goodies.

 

There is no salient argument for why it must be forced. None. Demonstrated reality in several games says that you're just plain wrong.

 

If it's never made optional here, you can absolutely bet that it's not because it somehow couldn't be or that it would've broken everything somehow.

 

If it remains mandatory and you're OK with that, you're basically saying that you're OK with them doing whatever they feel like no matter what anyone, /including you/, thinks or shall ever think.

 

You might be cool with this change since you obviously like it's features, and hey, I like most of the upcoming changes and features too.

 

When change comes down that you don't like, guess you'll just shut up and like that too, yes?

 

This should be optional. There doesn't need to be better reasons why being that it's pissing some unknown-but-identifiable quantity of people off, and there's no reason for it.

 

They make it optional, all the complaints would vanish, and what would be lost?

 

What exactly would be lost in making this a toggle, because it certainly wouldn't somehow make griefing rampant, unless it already is. This won't stop it, slow it or accelerate it. This will impact trolls being trolls about as much as the recent lunar eclipse did - maybe less.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Uruare