Why scaling should not be optional

[Jeweledleah]

And that is a smart way to play indeed. And thank you for the link. Most of the info I get are from the Dev tracker here. i am VERY surprised they didn;t tak about this there as well or at least say "Hey new update posted here". Ah well.

 

Okay so I officially stand corrected. Thank you.

 

Now, after reading that article (again, many thanks for the link) ... if I am reading this right - you guys still have your god mode. Here is why: That article says yes, you will be level synch'd, but in all solo mode flashpoints you get that nifty GSI droid. That means - yes - God Mode. Even when doing the FPs that were my level as I was progressing through Reven, I actually had to fight to keep up with the droid. Greedy bastard would kill everything in sight in one-shot. I'd have dismissed him for a challenge, but with 16 characters to level i very much welcomed the boost.

 

It seems this VERY VERY important point was missed in this entire thread. In SWTOR, solo mode always means GSI droid which means you will be blowing through stuff as quickly as if you were a level 60 stepping on level 10's without the synch.

 

have you done existing solo mode flashpoints? becasue if you have? you wouldn't have noticed something. the only thing they drop reliably are commendations. unlike out-leveling old hardmodes so that you can solo them - their rewards are completely changed to be well... nearly nonexistant. one of the big reasons to go back and solo older content is to finally FINALLY get acess to the rewards dropped therein. things like decorations, etc. things that re rng dependent in more ways then one (you hope that they drop in a first place, and then you hope you win the roll for them)

 

same extends to world bosses etc.

 

so... solo mode as it exists right now is NOT the god mode we are looking for. but hey... god forbid people actualy have acess to old fluff. they haven't "earned" it >_> /gags

Edited September 28, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Faelandaea]

So maybe it would be easier to ask a different question:

 

"Hey, Devs! Are you changing the rewards or just making us synch in level?"

 

I see all kinds of posted info now on level adjustments - not seen anything on changing rewards. Let's ask the dev's THAT question and see what they say. So far the only mention of loot in the linked article is this:

 

As an added bonus, each player can also receive loot specific to their Class and their non-bolstered level, so running these Flashpoints is always beneficial.

 

Great. So we won;t be stuck with a bunch of low level crap. Now the real question is, will the other stuff STILL be there?

 

Eric? Anyone? Confirmation on this?

Edited September 28, 2015 by Faelandaea

[sentientomega]

Ah, okay. I had to ask because Max mentioned something about that as well and I think a couple other souls did also. had me searching Blogs and Dev Trackers LOL.

 

EDIT: @Max - the Droid is just for folks who want to get through quickly. You can solo FPs with no problem at all. Like I said, many times my droid took off and I didn't even notice.I was too focused on my companion and myself to babysit a droid which doesn't even appear in the UI anyway, and if something isn't in my UI, then it isn't important enough to keep track of for heals, etc.

 

You should know, that according to the list of SOLO FPs, and that's a very small list of them that actually have a solo mode, ever FP should have a solo mode. (i.e. not having to make a group to enter it) Even Colicoid...and the Section X H4...and every Op...

 

If it becomes "find a group" or "use the droid", then seeing the content isn't worth it.

 

Eventually, if this keeps happening, the game isn't going to be worth the sub fees, and I guess I'll be done with the last video game I bother playing.

 

If it came to it, I could just about live with "use the droid"; but I'd really rather it not...

 

Ideally, everything should be solo-able without a companion or anyone else tagging along, has anyone here ever wanted to do that? Have a truly retinue-free experience, so that you need only take yourself in the field, and trinity tactics be damned?

[Faelandaea]

I love doing that, but i also love companions, too. It depends on my mood and I have single player games aplenty that need not have a companion or group or droid or midget humping a lawn gnome during tonight's "blood moon".

 

Hmmm. Now I am in the mood to go play some Witcher 3

Edited September 28, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Shayddow]

Having read the article, I still have concerns about certain flashpoints and scaling.

 

I saw "the foundry" listed as one of the flashpoints that will be subject to scaling in hard mode.

Currently the HK quest REQUIRES you to do this FP in hard mode. For most of my chars that have gotten HK, I have waited until level 60 to do it. <I did story mode at around 55 or so, after Ilum>, and of all the runs I've done, I have grouped exactly once. And that was with a guild. Usually I run it solo, because if you run things in a group people are in a hurry, they don't want to do the bonuses, whatever, whereas I usually kill all the mobs. This not being possible to do any more is scary.

 

In the list of FPs given, I did not see the FP "Lost" - this is the only FP I haven't ever finished solo <I did Czerka, but I had to do that with guild>, but people don't want to do this one it seems. I've managed to get as far as the Last boss - but then.... splat.

 

What exactly is going to happen with some of the older content FPs such as the above?

[sentientomega]

Not sure, but I really hope that all modes of Foundry/Maelstrom/False Emperor yield the HK parts.

[Transcendent]

one of the big reasons to go back and solo older content is to finally FINALLY get acess to the rewards dropped therein. things like decorations, etc. things that re rng dependent in more ways then one (you hope that they drop in a first place, and then you hope you win the roll for them)

 

same extends to world bosses etc.

 

so... solo mode as it exists right now is NOT the god mode we are looking for. but hey... god forbid people actualy have acess to old fluff. they haven't "earned" it >_> /gags

 

It's not just a simple case of going back to do older flashpoints purely to get the rewards contained within though. You may be soloing a HM flashpoint to bump up your conquest score, you could be going back to do 1 of 25 runs for the achievements (yes achievements are a great way to spend time sometimes...). You could have completely over-levelled the content and have gone back to complete your storyline (Battle of Ilum for example).

 

You may just be going back for nostalgia, or to help someone who has asked on a planet and can't get a group, so you "carry" them through so they get to see the story within.

 

I absolutely hope BioWare don't just go "Solo Mode (with stupid bot) / Tactical / Hardmode (scaled with new rewards)" and call it a day. I really hope they decide to also have "Story Mode (original and original loot table) / Hard Mode (not scaled and original loot table) - otherwise what happens on the achievements side of things? You simply won't be able to complete those, equally if you want to get a specific look, again, you won't be able to without having to spend commendations on fleet.

 

There has been no mention on this, not even in the blog. I think they've seriously over looked the reasons players do run this old content, and the motivations behind that.

 

I'm certainly not going to start running solo mode with the bot, or tactical runs with a different loot table. There isn't any reason for me to do that, even if they decide to add a whole new tier of achievements to those new modes (I'd like to complete the other achievements first).

 

With virtually no further information or clarification on the subject aside from the first blog, I'm finding that silence disconcerting and taking it as they haven't actually thought through the changes properly that no-one asked them to make or was clamouring for. Just so, in their eyes, they can make old content relevant. It already was

[Jeweledleah]

It's not just a simple case of going back to do older flashpoints purely to get the rewards contained within though. You may be soloing a HM flashpoint to bump up your conquest score, you could be going back to do 1 of 25 runs for the achievements (yes achievements are a great way to spend time sometimes...).

 

 

all good points I should have mentioned (though some of the stuff I left out of the quote, presumably would be doable in solo mode (like finishing stories, which is kinda the purpose of it)

[Allamirr]

I didnt even think about Bounty Contract week. That will be an absolute nightmare to do, if you had to fight every darn mob on the way to the target on every freaking planet. I sure wont be doing that event ever again.

[Astaldoath]

Nevermind ill just be banned post deleted, lets just say, scaling pointless, im unsubbing, bye bioyer beware.

 

 

How bout this, lets change it, so instead of just training force skills we have to go find pages of old sith books that teach us how to craft holocrons that teach us the skills for that level and if we cant then we dont get that skill.

 

I bet 90% of the people here would cry its to hard, be glad you werent around for EQ 1 before they had spell scribers lmao

 

 

 

that's how it works in GW2, so its a safe assumption to make. that said one of the main reasons for going back over-leveled is being able to breathe through content and skip majority of the mobs? still having to grind through all of them? eh. gets pretty old pretty fast. unless you are playing a stealther of course. the other - being able to solo group content without having to search for group, wait for everyone to get there, play at someone else's pace, etc etc.

 

honestly? I view downscaling the way I view playing on pvp servers. as in - I don't. pretty big on being able to chose if and when to group and if/when to solo. being essentially strong armed into grouping via scaling? not fun.

 

at least in GW2 - you don't actualy need to physically group to do out in a world content. usually dynamic event starts and you just kinda go with it. difficulty of mobs scales up with number of people who show up to participate so you can actualy solo dynamic events, in case no other people are around (and there's no such thing as tagging - everyone who hits the mob even once - gets credit and personal loot) you can even join in on world boss kills that way (and I have)

 

as far as we know? bioware is not going full GW2 here. loot is still of the "roll on it and hope that RNG favors you" variety. mobs are still tagged, so you HAVE to physically group up. etc etc.

 

another option which I don't see ANYONE fighting against is mentoring system. where your high level friend (or you) can join you (or your friend) for some group content and CHOSE to be down-leveled to its level. as far as I know it exists or existed in multiple games successfully (since choice is an operative word here) the one I have personally played is Wildstar.

 

Personally I find Bound items extremely annoying, why should i need to get 10 of the same item if i have 10 guys?

 

Or if I have a level 80 hero who can get good *** gear my level 30 can use but its bound and restricted to level 45 why shouldnt i be able to? I guess because the people who make the game say so, thats why i dont pay them money and pay the ones who make the games I like

 

the funny part is? mentoring system is what people have ACTUALLY been asking for. not being mandatory scaled down.

This is why i played GW 2 till max level 1 time, noticed it took about 10 years to make end game gear, and everything was always difficult no matter how strong i got, i said screw it, never will play a game that scales me to every monster in the game, never.

 

oh wait GW 2 doesnt scale? shows you how long i remembered that game for barely even the time i played it.

 

I agree I should not be forced in to grouping content i have killed 40 levels ago because i feel like killing 30 at once for fun. If i wanna kill 30 mobs that drop a pile of dog crap at once for fun i should be able to. Do i expect a diamond off of each mob NO! i dont think anyone does or would. Dog poop = scaling in this case

Edited September 28, 2015 by Astaldoath

[MeNaCe-NZ]

For some heroics, sure. But not EVERY SINGLE PLANET pre 60 (including daily quests). This change, if not optional, will ruin my WHOLE experience of all of that content. That is just not acceptable.

 

 

 

It's of no concern to you how anyone does their content and certainly not up to you to decide if that's worth a reward or not (the only exception to this would be cheating/hacking/misuse of glitches).

 

Never said anything about it not being optional.

It's a discussion, argument - of course it's not up to us. If you fail to see that that's your problem, I'm entitled to my opinion as much as the next person.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's relevant because they're changing it from that to this, and apparently their new intent is important to you guys, so the old intent should be too.

 

Old intent is irrelevant as it's old.

 

The mechanic is the bread and butter of the topic, their intent is not. Their game mechanics let me play a ranged class in melee range and do just fine, even though their intent is for ranged classes to be played at range. I can run ops with less than 8 players even though the devs intended for it to be played with 8. Should I be punished for disobeying the devs' intent?

 

Stop being a strawman. You stated by intent you thought we meant "how" and not "why" and then went on to basically say arguing intent was a waste of time. What you've put above has nothing to do with the point I called you on.

 

 

You've been talking about why as well, but you've also repeatedly brought up how they "intend" for the mechanics to function. Whether they intend for people to be doing god mode. Whether they intended for rewards. These things are related to the why, but they are different intents. One is what and one is why.

 

The how is not the intention here, the why is. The how is just that ... how. If you somehow got confused that's your problem really. I think if you read content of the statements with the word "intent" in them that I've made the general trend is for intent to be related to why, e.g. "BW intend to change scaling rewards as to encourage grouping". Of course an opinion which apparently according to you doesn't support our argument ( even though you do it yourself ) but I'll do that none the less.

 

Indeed, hence why I originally put those two sentences together. I can guess too and come to different conclusions. I wasn't actually using my guess to support my stance though, just pointing out why yours doesn't either.

 

If you post it within the content of your argument that is exactly what you are doing.

 

They changed their minds, there's new management that thinks differently, they believe their metrics are indicating they should change it, EA told them to, or maybe aliens told them to.

 

Aliens told them to is a logical guess?

 

Why not reward mediocrity, the game already does in a lot of scenarios? What do you care? How does it affect you?

 

Discourages grouping and can flood the market with items I might want to use my skill to obtain to sell if you can do it equally in god mode. I've been over this earlier on why I'm personally against it.

 

Why not reward mediocrity? Because it makes a lazy society, it's just the way I'm personally inclined. I don't expect everyone to bend their opinions to mine but that is my opinion and view.

 

Correct, opinions aren't supporting my argument, they make up my argument. What isn't my opinion is that there are a number of people who prefer it the way it is, that it's part of what makes this game fun for them. That there are many other RPGs that work exactly the same way. That despite being able to do the content later in god mode for the same exact rewards, there are still people who will group up for both heroics and flashpoints while leveling, "as the devs intended it"

 

You're using the past again, we're looking forward to the future here. What they intended in the past matters not, thought we'd established that.

What also isn't opinion is that there are also people who will happily do the content grouped if they had to, given the choice between that and god mode though they choose god mode for the rewards, it's quicker and easier. This is a negative point to group content and that's they key here really - these aspects are actually group encounters we are discussing and if they get changed back to be mostly group encounters then that's not really affected the solo community except in their own perception, they've lost no solo content ( or even god access to the group content ).

 

What do you care if they do get rewarded though? Why is it a negative if they do?

 

Read above and a few other times through this thread.

 

Fair enough. The game mechanics still have you progressing through the game, even though strictly speaking you're not doing the quest now but in the past. Even with the change I would say that it still isn't accounting for the fact that we're time traveling, otherwise you'd lose your abilities too.

 

It's outside the story so it doesn't matter if we've time travelling - it's just something fun and challenging to do once you're up to date on story.

 

Again, you're forced to do it with scaling if you don't want to be punished for having the rewards removed, assuming your proposed implementation. You said it yourself you think rewards should be removed for "god mode".

 

How is removing unearned rewards forcing you to do anything? Go do some solo content that rewards solo rewards. If you actually want to enjoy the group content in god mode you can do so, no one forced you to turned scaling on, you just won't get rewarded for it. Not being rewarded != being forced. It's funny because often the god mode defense here has brought up the word "fun" yet often it's really they just don't want to lose their rewards which is greed. It should be fun regardless of the reward otherwise it's a paid chore in a sense.

 

Why not? They earned god mode, and while in god mode they still did the content. It's not like they are sitting on fleet expecting the content to do itself.

 

Doing the content in god mode is reward enough.

[DJZod]

Just to be fair to everyone...

 

From what I have been reading the main reason people want scaling to be optional is soloing old fp's....from what I am reading here http://www.swtor.com/blog/operations-and-flashpoints-fallen-empire...most of the story fp's are going solo mode anyway. So in theory that is gone.

 

Can't help a lower level....in reality this means I can't jump on my geared max level and beat it in 2 secs and the person who wanted help just gets a pass....i see people complaining about bad players....logically what makes them bad? Getting free passes like that...

 

Mind you I honestly don't care if it is optional or not....I just thought as there is a pro optional thread there should be one that focuses on why it shouldnt be

 

Back when I first started playing (just before the Legacy Update hit), I had difficulties with some of the fights. What I used to do back then, was to go find some other content to use to level up a little, then come back. If they make scaling non-optional, and instanced non-flashpoint/op content scales regardless, then this method would no longer be an option.

[DJZod]

My biggest concern is how all these changes will impact finding groups. With all opses, flashpoints, WBs, heroics, quest chains etc becoming relevant and dropping relevant loot, people will get much more spread out around the game's world. This is obviously a good thing compared to sitting on fleet, but finding groups will be even harder. An update like this should come with enhanced communication tools, global chats of some sorts etc. Scaling means all group content in the game will suddenly come into end-game pool. Even large guilds won't solve grouping issues, there's only so much people online that can spread out and join up for all the various things different guildies will want to do.

 

I imagine the opposite. Since the 10-50 flashpoints are going to become "tactical" playable at any point, and allow you to get loot appropriate to your current level, you no longer have to sit around waiting for the exact right combination of roles in the exact right level range. Instead, the entire pool of players is available to group with. For an example of how this improves the ability to find groups, have a look at how much easier it is to get into KDY via group finder than say.... The Foundry normal mode, while on level for the content. KDY will almost always instapop, regardless of your selected role(s). Foundry, not so much, especially if you are DPS.

 

The same is true for story mode operations. The entire lot will open up at level 50 instead of a few at level 50, a few at level 55, and a few at level 60. These will also drop relevant loot, regardless of your level and will include a bolster if you aren't quite up to par.

 

Hard Mode operations shouldn't change that much as far as the ability to find a group goes.

[sentientomega]

How is removing unearned rewards forcing you to do anything? Go do some solo content that rewards solo rewards. If you actually want to enjoy the group content in god mode you can do so, no one forced you to turned scaling on, you just won't get rewarded for it. Not being rewarded != being forced. It's funny because often the god mode defense here has brought up the word "fun" yet often it's really they just don't want to lose their rewards which is greed. It should be fun regardless of the reward otherwise it's a paid chore in a sense.

 

 

 

Doing the content in god mode is reward enough.

 

Who are you to say what's earned, and what's not? Taking the time to go through content, at level, or not, should be met with a reward for actually bothering to go there and do that, but it shouldn't scale the reward gained to your level. For instance, I don't expect soloing Red Reaper at 55 to give me 55 rewards, I expect it to give me 45 rewards, read my points below before you want to spoil things for people.

 

Why not keep the rewards the same, but make the ones you get ONLY if grouped (multiplier for grouped status or something like that) dramatically, and I mean DRAMATICALLY exceed the ones you'd normally get now? If that doesn't encourage grouping, nothing will; and you seem to be ignoring a major reason people are unwilling to group up, trolling players from hell. But no, punish anyone and everyone who doesn't fit your gaming ideological construct.

 

No, it's not reward enough; the fact that we even bothered to do that content, regardless of when, should be rewarded, but as I said, group reward should dramatically exceed the ones you'd get now; it may be a paid chore to you, but it's a fully-retainable expense account for the rest of us, because most of us aren't there for the cash, but just because we're not there for that primarily, doesn't mean it should be taken away completely. Grouping up, as it stands nowadays, is a chore, especially if you're after the perfect group. I suspect you only say that soloing old group content is a paid chore to reflect that because you don't want to go there and do older content way above level, we shouldn't want to either. We're being mind-controlled into believing that because the rest of us did those instances later and above level, voluntarily, it's somehow a chore?!

 

Besides which, god mode means NO damage taken; and that's actually BS when it comes to group content, or indeed any content, especially just 10 levels above the content. I know that if I went and did Black Talon/Esseles at 60, geared in mostly 172s, I'd still sustain damage, in combat, no matter how small. It's almost impossible, NEVER to sustain any damage at all. And, I have run such content at that level (more alignment points in a hurry), so I know what I'm talking about.

 

If BW:A wants to pander to you completely, then fine; that's their prerogative, this is their game, so they can do as they will. Just don't attack them because they didn't make everyone go "drag a boulder up a steep gradient naked in the blazing sun", after all, it would take something pretty drastic from them to drive me from the game.

 

Lvl 65 NiM ops difficulty bosses at every corner of every instance springs to mind, each of them with a channeled terminate aoe dot.

 

I'm sure BW:A knows that many players like to coast through stuff, without fear of imminent demise (like, if we encountered an enemy and within 1 second half our HP was lost), and I'm also sure they know that what hardcore players call have an easy time with is NiM for the rest of us.

 

I imagine the opposite. Since the 10-50 flashpoints are going to become "tactical" playable at any point, and allow you to get loot appropriate to your current level, you no longer have to sit around waiting for the exact right combination of roles in the exact right level range. Instead, the entire pool of players is available to group with. For an example of how this improves the ability to find groups, have a look at how much easier it is to get into KDY via group finder than say.... The Foundry normal mode, while on level for the content. KDY will almost always instapop, regardless of your selected role(s). Foundry, not so much, especially if you are DPS.

 

The same is true for story mode operations. The entire lot will open up at level 50 instead of a few at level 50, a few at level 55, and a few at level 60. These will also drop relevant loot, regardless of your level and will include a bolster if you aren't quite up to par.

 

Hard Mode operations shouldn't change that much as far as the ability to find a group goes.

 

Not if you're trying to find groups of players and vet them, to minimise the risk of their being, clueless, belligerent, ninjas, sociopathic, or any combination thereof.

 

Remember, that you don't have to not be in a group in order to queue. You can queue anywhere from just yourself to a full group, if they're all eligible for common content.

Edited September 28, 2015 by sentientomega

[Transcendent]

I'm also sure they know that what hardcore players call have an easy time with is NiM for the rest of us.

 

Not if the last set of Story Mode operations was anything to go by, no, I really don't think they do.

[sentientomega]

Not if the last set of Story Mode operations was anything to go by, no, I really don't think they do.

 

In what way?

Edited September 28, 2015 by sentientomega

[FerkWork]

Not if the last set of Story Mode operations was anything to go by, no, I really don't think they do.

 

If your suggesting that SM of this tier is hard.. Le sigh

 

Lvl 65 NiM ops difficulty bosses at every corner of every instance springs to mind, each of them with a channeled terminate aoe dot.

Hawt, although nothing really gets me going like a Overcharged Sabers to the face

[DJZod]

have you done existing solo mode flashpoints? becasue if you have? you wouldn't have noticed something. the only thing they drop reliably are commendations. unlike out-leveling old hardmodes so that you can solo them - their rewards are completely changed to be well... nearly nonexistant. one of the big reasons to go back and solo older content is to finally FINALLY get acess to the rewards dropped therein. things like decorations, etc. things that re rng dependent in more ways then one (you hope that they drop in a first place, and then you hope you win the roll for them)

 

same extends to world bosses etc.

 

so... solo mode as it exists right now is NOT the god mode we are looking for. but hey... god forbid people actualy have acess to old fluff. they haven't "earned" it >_> /gags

 

From the sound of that blog post, it sounds like the loot drops for the solo mode will be changing. The fact that the current ones only drop a small number of comms is, I believe, intentional. The blog post said that any method or mode of running the flashpoints will allow you to obtain gear that is class and level relevant to your character.

 

That said, I expect, and in many ways hope, that the group versions of these flashpoints will drop slightly better loot than the solo versions.

[Faelandaea]

heck even if they drop the same loot, I will be okay with it. I am okay with someone soling having access to the same stuff as a group does. It just makes it a personal choice as to how a player wishes to play.

 

I am still thankful for SWTOR having not done what Rift did way back when i played - forcing players to all PvP at some point to progress the story-line. Now THAT sucked.

[sentientomega]

I am still thankful for SWTOR having not done what Rift did way back when i played - forcing players to all PvP at some point to progress the story-line. Now THAT sucked.

 

As am I, I'm so very happy that unless you we're totally blind and/or stupid, there's next to no chance of getting flagged for PvP.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Who are you to say what's earned, and what's not?

 

I don't know who are you to say what's earned and what's not?

 

So far it seems our opinions differ except your the one with their hair on fire.

 

 

Why not keep the rewards the same, but make the ones you get ONLY if grouped (multiplier for grouped status or something like that) dramatically, and I mean DRAMATICALLY exceed the ones you'd normally get now? If that doesn't encourage grouping, nothing will; and you seem to be ignoring a major reason people are unwilling to group up, trolling players from hell. But no, punish anyone and everyone who doesn't fit your gaming ideological construct.

 

Sweet at make it level 45 gear as per your example that is BOP or deco's that are BOP, I've no problem with that because your pickups then don't effectively affects other in the community who might be doing content for profit.

 

No, it's not reward enough; the fact that we even bothered to do that content, regardless of when, should be rewarded, but as I said, group reward should dramatically exceed the ones you'd get now; it may be a paid chore to you, but it's a fully-retainable expense account for the rest of us, because most of us aren't there for the cash, but just because we're not there for that primarily, doesn't mean it should be taken away completely. Grouping up, as it stands nowadays, is a chore, especially if you're after the perfect group. I suspect you only say that soloing old group content is a paid chore to reflect that because you don't want to go there and do older content way above level, we shouldn't want to either. We're being mind-controlled into believing that because the rest of us did those instances later and above level, voluntarily, it's somehow a chore?!

 

If god mode not a chore why do you need a reward for it?

 

Besides which, god mode means NO damage taken; and that's actually BS when it comes to group content, or indeed any content, especially just 10 levels above the content. I know that if I went and did Black Talon/Esseles at 60, geared in mostly 172s, I'd still sustain damage, in combat, no matter how small. It's almost impossible, NEVER to sustain any damage at all. And, I have run such content at that level (more alignment points in a hurry), so I know what I'm talking about.

 

Right so now you're trying to argue because you take a small perceivable amount of damage it's not god mode? I guess technically you're correct ... kind of debating semantics though because you still won't die unless you really go out of your way to try and do so.

 

 

If BW:A wants to pander to you completely, then fine; that's their prerogative, this is their game, so they can do as they will. Just don't attack them because they didn't make everyone go "drag a boulder up a steep gradient naked in the blazing sun", after all, it would take something pretty drastic from them to drive me from the game.

 

I came to this topic in support of the change being optional though would have liked to see the rewards scaled back or removed for god mode. I won't be anti BW if they don't do this.

[DJZod]

heck even if they drop the same loot, I will be okay with it. I am okay with someone soling having access to the same stuff as a group does. It just makes it a personal choice as to how a player wishes to play.

 

I am still thankful for SWTOR having not done what Rift did way back when i played - forcing players to all PvP at some point to progress the story-line. Now THAT sucked.

 

Yeah, there are numerous older MMOs (which i am aware Rift is not that old) that tried this, such as Anarchy Online. There would be a point in your leveling where a mission location was either inside of a PVP zone or required you to pass through one in order to reach it. As you may expect, such mission locations made excellent locations for griefers to lie in wait for easy prey. In the case of AO, it could potentially be particularly painful since when you died, you would lose any experience you had gained since you last leveled up or saved your character at a terminal (which had a cost that scaled up as you levelled up). This really discouraged may players, including myself, from continuing to level up.

 

I am fine with PvP in warzones I am fine with PvP for those who choose to flag. I am fine with being forced to flag if you attack an NPC from the opposite faction or enter their territory. I am fine with PvP on designated servers. I even engage in some warzone PVP when the mood strikes. I simply don't want to be forced to make myself bait for griefers.

 

As it stands, one step of obtaining HK requires entering The Outlaw's Den, but that is slightly different. For one thing, the HK stuff is not required in order to continue leveling up. For another, the traffic there is not high enough on most PvE servers (even Harbinger) to make it an attractive ambush point.

[sentientomega]

I don't know who are you to say what's earned and what's not?

 

So far it seems our opinions differ except your the one with their hair on fire.

 

I'm not, and we may have more in common than we realise, but it seems such a pity to change things when they could keep the old FP/Op content and ADD 10x greater rewards for people in groups who do the content at level. Obviously, they wouldn't be touching the old GF content, just the new versions to get the juicier rewards, since they'll be all, except the solo ones, group-required.

 

Sweet at make it level 45 gear as per your example that is BOP or deco's that are BOP, I've no problem with that because your pickups then don't effectively affects other in the community who might be doing content for profit.

 

That's how it is now, if it's not BoP (not sure how, I think all oranges are BoP), the content you get from soloing the instances, they should make it so. See, I'd like groups to be more active and less toxic, so that I have a chance to participate if I've a mind to do so, and that groups should be less dystopian.

 

If god mode not a chore why do you need a reward for it?

 

It feels more like a chore if you've done it many times, as I have with Red Eclipse prior to 3.0. Kaon isn't a chore, it's a beautiful Tionese city I'd like to be able to explore on my lonesome, and make a modest sum of credits. I recently did Kaon HM on my own (within the last week), and the credits were far less than the usual for an HM 50.

 

Right so now you're trying to argue because you take a small perceivable amount of damage it's not god mode? I guess technically you're correct ... kind of debating semantics though because you still won't die unless you really go out of your way to try and do so.

 

Well, here's the thing; back then for Red Reaper at 55, I and my comp did suffer a decent chunk of damage from the SV-3 Eradicator. The same thing happened with Kaon HM, my Scorpio was down below 50% HP thanks to the Rakghoul Behemoth by the time it was ended. Honestly, so long as I can cover my repair bills, I'd be happy.

 

I came to this topic in support of the change being optional though would have liked to see the rewards scaled back or removed for god mode. I won't be anti BW if they don't do this.

 

Neither will I if they only make a handful of the FPs soloable, I just hope that all modes of Foundry/Maelstrom and False Emperor have the HK parts. The HK-51 line is quite some fun...

 

Instead of scaling back, why go for a positive incentive, rather than a negative one? Keep the old rewards where they are, make them all BoP if not, and raise the rewards for being in a group for group content by 10x (credit loot from enemies, items etc), you'd hope that'd be enough to get more people grouping, especially as when you divide the loot evenly, each member gets 2.5x more than if they solo'ed above level.

 

I have another idea, since the rewards increase would be attached to being in a group (Incidentally, to qualify for the increase, you'd have to have gotten the mission when grouped, done ALL the objectives when grouped, and turned in the mission when grouped), why not increase rewards for all non-story missions (i.e. any with group decision rolls, for instance) by 2.5x? And 5x for heroic 2s, 7.5 times for heroic 2+s, and ofc, 10x for the heroic 4s?

 

Even I'd be tempted to hunt for groups, and I'm sure I'd not be the only one.

Edited September 29, 2015 by sentientomega

[Jeweledleah]

From the sound of that blog post, it sounds like the loot drops for the solo mode will be changing. The fact that the current ones only drop a small number of comms is, I believe, intentional. The blog post said that any method or mode of running the flashpoints will allow you to obtain gear that is class and level relevant to your character.

 

That said, I expect, and in many ways hope, that the group versions of these flashpoints will drop slightly better loot than the solo versions.

 

but will it have the same appearance as that from the group versions we have right now? and how about drop rate of fluff - like currency to buy decorations and decorations themselves?

 

incidentally? as a compromise I'd be fine if they drop as BoP with BoE version being from group content only. its not a perfect compromise as it still means I'm locked out of achievements, becasue none of the groups I get want to take the necessary steps to get said achievements, especially when it comes to killing bonus bosses in some of the flashpoints (I pretty much lost hope for being able to complete some of them. people don't even want to try, not even my guildies). but at least you can avoid rng crap of rolling for fluff.