DOHboy Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 will solo mode drop decorations at the same rate? because if it works like current solo modes do? it will not drop decorations, it will not drop currency items (like relics to trade for armor/deco's etc) it will not drop gear, it will just drop a little bit of credits - fewer than you are getting now. moreover - solo modes are for storymode difficulty only when they announced scaling up of flashpoints, it was pretty much my least favorite change. IMO.. they should only scale if you group finder them. if you are zoning in manually, they should stay as they are right now. IMO and I know why they are doing it. to create artificially more options to run at end game for hardmodes, while also making it easier to find groups while leveling (since flashpoints are no longer tied to specific levels) but it still removes preffered playstyle of a lot of people. I for one was looking forward to being able to solo current Hardmodes with more ease. I was looking forward to having larger pool of old ops to solo. and now I will never get to. not that I haven't been expecting something like that. ever since they killed of hybrids because they are "harder to balance" and all. solo modes are to get the story i dont' think it will have the same drops as group content (otehrwise why bother running group content) story mode will be the same group content we see now they are only making you scale with the solo modes. the story modes will stay as is and can be done by anyone as well as changing to tacticals will also buff those so you can run group content with friends at any level. if you are a 65 running a level 45 operation with a level 20 toon my understanding is they get a buff to 45 you stay at 65 adn everyone is happy. hardmodes will just go up to level and require the full trinity as before but at max level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) In a game based on a leveling system, yea. Thats how it's meant to be played by default when you outlevel the content. No, it's not. Like I said, my Sith warrior shouldn't give a rats *** about the peons on koriban when he's a level 65. Thats why I think there should be a toggle for the descaling features. When yo ugo to a planet, you get a prompt to accept it or not. You really don't understand the whole thing about levels, do you? A level 65 is not, in-universe, 100 times (or whatever) as powerful as a level 1. Level is a game abstraction. In-universe, the korrslugs on beginning Korriban are the same as the korrsulgs in the Assault on Korriban flashpoint. Or do you think the Replublic imported super mutant korrslugs when they invaded? Your level 65 Sith does not in-universe outclass the "peons" on Korriban because he's level 65 and they are level 1, he outclasses them because he's a Sith lord and they are acolytes. Edited September 16, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 but it still removes preffered playstyle of a lot of people. I for one was looking forward to being able to solo current Hardmodes with more ease. I was looking forward to having larger pool of old ops to solo. and now I will never get to. In an expansion which is 99% focused on the purely solo experience, with NO new flashpoints and no new operations, and with solo mode flashpoints being added everywhere, it's marvelously disingenuous to say "removes the preferred playstyle of a lot of people" The solo playstyle is specifically what this expansion is catering to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 but it still removes preffered playstyle of a lot of people. I for one was looking forward to being able to solo current Hardmodes with more ease. I was looking forward to having larger pool of old ops to solo. and now I will never get to. This is also something I think is being seriously overlooked in the rush to scale older content, they're removing end-game content from players who enjoy being over-levelled and running the older content more easily. As to down-scaling players to match content? How well has bolster worked since introduced? How well have missions like the Macro binocular missions such as Arcanum treated players who are specced as a healer and had their interrupt time increased or abilities removed / altered (or the silver mobs on Corellia for example). How well have BioWare thought this through? Because going on past history of class changes etc, they really haven't given it much thought. More to the point. How many players have asked for something like content scaling to be introduced? No. If content scaling (period) is introduced without the option to turn it off, after my play through of the story on one character for KotFE I'll unsub. There are too many good games coming out in the next few months for me to give BioWare Austin the benefit of the doubt on this one specific issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I was looking forward to having larger pool of old ops to solo. and now I will never get to. How exactly do you solo an Op, invite a friend, form an Op group, enter, then kick him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 No, it's not. We can go back and forth all day on: Yes it is. / No it's not. In a system based on leveling and it's direct influence on just how powerful you are. You are mistaken because once you out level something, it should be easier to beat it. You are now, very much, out classing those lessers. A level 65 shouldn't be descaled to make level 15 content more challenging. Unless they want to place the handicap on themselves anyway and thats why I vote for a toggle on that feature. You really don't understand the whole thing about levels, do you? A level 65 is not, in-universe, 100 times (or whatever) as powerful as a level 1. Level is a game abstraction. In-universe, the korrslugs on beginning Korriban are the same as the korrsulgs in the Assault on Korriban flashpoint. Or do you think the Replublic imported super mutant korrslugs when they invaded? Incorrect. The leveling system is a direct unite used for how much power, knowledge and skill your have gained. The ability to do more and use better things. You are indeed more powerful at level 65 than those on koriban at level 3. Your level is not some arbitrary number to be ignored. If it was so, then there is no real reason for it to be there. Give everyone every ability from the start and just have the power behind them move on a slider depending on where they go. Thats not a fun idea either given the subject we're talking about. As far as beasts go, I'd apply something similar to it. Some things are just harder to kill. Some beasts are just tougher and while they look similar, those slugs are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I'm sure there will still be group finder dailies and weeklies for basic, elite, and ult comms (or whatever comms they have in 4.0) For what, to run the same old content that I've beaten already? To earn comms to buy gear to get back to the power level I have today? Right now, in 192/198 gear, I can beat all the SM ops and the HM FP at lvl 60. In 4.0, they'll raise the level to 65, raise all the stats, raise the FP and ops to 65, so I have to grind up to 65 and get all new gear... to end up in EXACTLY the same place I am today... Think about that one... It is exactly the same as if they had just reset all our toons back to lvl 55 and put everyone back in 162 gear and said, "ha! you all get it grind it out all over again in the same content, enjoy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Think about that one... It is exactly the same as if they had just reset all our toons back to lvl 55 and put everyone back in 162 gear and said, "ha! you all get it grind it out all over again in the same content, enjoy!" So essentially your actual character level means nothing. If that's how they intend things to be, they should just do away with levels completely and give everyone all of the abilities from the very start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 In a system based on leveling and it's direct influence on just how powerful you are. You are mistaken because once you out level something, it should be easier to beat it. Unless they change the mechanics to make that not so. It's their game, not yours. A level 65 shouldn't be descaled to make level 15 content more challenging. In your opinion. When you make the QuraswrenMMO, we know how you will do it. Unless they want to place the handicap on themselves anyway and thats why I vote for a toggle on that feature. Here's your toggle: don't do the low level content if it results in your character being "de-leveled." Incorrect. Your incorrect is incorrect. We can go back and forth on this all day. Go play old (A)D&D. Come back and tell me that you really do think a level 30 Fighter really has the physicality that results in 15 times (or whatever) the hit points of a level 1 Fighter. Levels are a game abstraction and have nothing to do with the in-universe nature of the game. Levels are simply the say level-based games increase character and monster power. Many so-called RPers make the same mistake you are making, so you are far from alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Go play old (A)D&D. Come back and tell me that you really do think a level 30 Fighter really has the physicality that results in 15 times (or whatever) the hit points of a level 1 Fighter. I know! The fighter must have built up a resistance to being stabbed over time -- now he's mostly immune. New strains of stabbing must exist at higher levels -- he doesn't have the antibodies yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I know! The fighter must have built up a resistance to being stabbed over time -- now he's mostly immune. New strains of stabbing must exist at higher levels -- he doesn't have the antibodies yet. The way they explained is that the hit points are an abstraction for a higher level fighter's skill art avoiding potentially fatal blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 The way they explained is that the hit points are an abstraction for a higher level fighter's skill art avoiding potentially fatal blows. No antibodies for stabbing? I'm disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Unless they change the mechanics to make that not so. It's their game, not yours. I'm not saying they can't change it. I'm saying I just don't support it and it would be a bit easier to take if it could be toggled on and off as a down scaling feature. The upscaling of old content isn't too much a big deal other than it will be boring as hell. In your opinion. When you make the QuraswrenMMO, we know how you will do it. Well who's opinion did you think I was talking about? Biowares? The fools that think story alone will carry the expansion as they expect gamers to re-play old OPS and FP for a couple months if not 6 months. As if they didn't learn from SWTOR when it launched and relied on too much on story then as well. Here's your toggle: don't do the low level content if it results in your character being "de-leveled." A better toggle would be should a friend want over leveled toon to help him quickly get though some boring heroic he's done a number of times on an alt. We should have the ablity to not be descaled as we go back to a starter planet. I see that as a better solution. Best of both worlds kind of things that would fit more players than just descaling everyone. Your incorrect is incorrect. We can go back and forth on this all day. Go play old (A)D&D. Come back and tell me that you really do think a level 30 Fighter really has the physicality that results in 15 times (or whatever) the hit points of a level 1 Fighter. Levels are a game abstraction and have nothing to do with the in-universe nature of the game. Levels are simply the say level-based games increase character and monster power. Many so-called RPers make the same mistake you are making, so you are far from alone. Seeing my level 30 fighter is indeed more experienced than a level 1 in not just about every way, I'd say you are still incorrect. The higher levels comes with a direct correlation to your power, skill, knowledge. Back in the day of D&D, those levels also came with titles attached to those levels. You went from a cut throat to a full fledged assassin or squire all the way to knight. The levels mattered, the title was just a better in game representation of that level but no one cared to remember the titles. The level is to important to devalue as some arbitrary number you can dismiss. It directly describes your ability. Maybe you need a specific title in your role play to accomplish the same goal but a number works fine for me and is easier to remember. Edited September 16, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Not sure how I feel about this. I like it in theory but I agree with others that there should be a toggle there. Make the untoggled version not give great rewards while the toggled version gives much better rewards due to being on-level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micnevv Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I'm really struggling why people are so scared of this change. This is the change we've needed since launch, it will give the world a spark of life. We don't have to stand around in fleet doing nothing while waiting for a WZ or Raid. Now we can go out in the open and do random content without stomping all over the mobs. Why are you so scared of creating a group to do content? It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game after all. I personally can't wait to get groups set up for world bosses to contest other people for it like at launch, rather than just going in and 1 shotting the boss alone. If you enjoy stomping over level 20 mobs for entertainment then you might as well go play club penguin. Edited September 16, 2015 by micnevv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) SNIP... Now we can go out in the open and do random content without stomping all over the mobs. Sometimes we like doing that kind of stomping with low level friends. Thats why the toggle request. Why are you so scared of creating a group to do content? It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game after all. I can't wait to get groups set up for world bosses to contest other people for it, rather than just going in and 1 shotting the boss alone. If you enjoy stomping over level 20 mobs for entertainment then you might as well go play club penguin. If it really had anything to do with grouping, every FP wouldn't be getting a solo mode. Think about it a bit mroe because its not what you seem to think it is. Again, there is a time and place for both aspects. Thats why the toggle request. Edited September 16, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Not sure how I feel about this. I like it in theory but I agree with others that there should be a toggle there. Make the untoggled version not give great rewards while the toggled version gives much better rewards due to being on-level. 3 modes solo ->scales you to level story ->buffs lower level people to at level; available to anyone level 10-65, also is "tactical" does not require trinity can group with anyone at any level to do the flashpoint. hardmodes->max level requires trinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I'm really struggling why people are so scared of this change. This is the change we've needed since launch, it will give the world a spark of life. We don't have to stand around in fleet doing nothing while waiting for a WZ or Raid. Now we can go out in the open and do random content without stomping all over the mobs. Why are you so scared of creating a group to do content? It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game after all. I personally can't wait to get groups set up for world bosses to contest other people for it like at launch, rather than just going in and 1 shotting the boss alone. If you enjoy stomping over level 20 mobs for entertainment then you might as well go play club penguin. Group content? KOTFE is nothing but a solo expansion...they've made that clear from the very start. Even FPs are getting solo modes. This has ZERO to do with making anything group content...they're actively moving away from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micnevv Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If it really had anything to do with grouping, every FP wouldn't be getting a solo mode. Think about it a bit mroe because its not what you seem to think it is. They're adding SOLO mode because most of those flashpoints are extremely important to the story. And there might not always be a group available for those flashpoints. It is something that should have also been available at launch, with 4-man teams being optional for extra rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 3 modes solo ->scales you to level story ->buffs lower level people to at level; available to anyone level 10-65, also is "tactical" does not require trinity can group with anyone at any level to do the flashpoint. hardmodes->max level requires trinity Is any of this confirmed?? Or are you making this up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micnevv Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) Group content? KOTFE is nothing but a solo expansion...they've made that clear from the very start. Even FPs are getting solo modes. This has ZERO to do with making anything group content...they're actively moving away from that. I never mentioned NEW group content, I only referred to doing things we might have missed years ago while levelling. Like say a heroic 4 or world bosses. Rather than just stomping all over it you can now get some sort of challenge and something extra to do in down time. Edited September 16, 2015 by micnevv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I'm really struggling why people are so scared of this change. This is the change we've needed since launch, it will give the world a spark of life. We don't have to stand around in fleet doing nothing while waiting for a WZ or Raid. Now we can go out in the open and do random content without stomping all over the mobs. Why are you so scared of creating a group to do content? It is a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-playing Game after all. I personally can't wait to get groups set up for world bosses to contest other people for it like at launch, rather than just going in and 1 shotting the boss alone. If you enjoy stomping over level 20 mobs for entertainment then you might as well go play club penguin. I'm not scared. I'm annoyed because right now, I can go in and NOT have to roll against 3/7 other people for decorations/vendor currency etc. after this change? i won't have a choice anymore. I don't mind it being scaled WHILE IN GROUPFINDER. yes, yes, its an MMO and I group for content whenever I feel like it. but the irony is that they ARE adding solomodes. so they obviously understand that people don't like to be forced to group. they are just removing an option for people to solo older content without content drops being gimped via solo modes. and they WILL be gimped, mark my word. we have precedent - existing solo modes. I never mentioned NEW group content, I only referred to doing things we might have missed years ago while levelling. Like say a heroic 4 or world bosses. Rather than just stomping all over it you can now get some sort of challenge and something extra to do in down time. that is NOT what they are scaling though. and guess what. content we missed years ago or whatever while leveling? for a lot of us, being able to solo stomp it without having to look for a group? was the whole point Edited September 16, 2015 by Jeweledleah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I never mentioned NEW group content, I only referred to doing things we might have missed years ago while levelling. Like say a heroic 4 or world bosses. Rather than just stomping all over it you can now get some sort of challenge and something extra to do in down time. And I hope it's optional if they delevel us, because not everyone skipped the content you seem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) I never mentioned NEW group content, I only referred to doing things we might have missed years ago while levelling. Like say a heroic 4 or world bosses. Rather than just stomping all over it you can now get some sort of challenge and something extra to do in down time. and I'm not saying that option shouldn't be there but it's not being done because of some great group content agenda push. To much solo going in to think that. I'm saying, I know not everyone cares to go back and do that content again or at all no matter the level. Hell, we have players that are more than fine with stomping all over old out-leveled content and can't wait to solo some old Heroic 4 on a planet long past carrying for other than to have a bit of easy fun and entertainment. There are some very good reasons to have the scaling feature for old content. There are just as many reasons why there needs to be a toggle on it as well. And I hope it's optional if they delevel us, because not everyone skipped the content you seem to have. BINGO ^ Edited September 16, 2015 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 (edited) And I hope it's optional if they delevel us, because not everyone skipped the content you seem to have. Of course you did every single thing in the game. Funny to see people lobbying for the ability to "roflstomp," Edited September 16, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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