sage/sorcerer way to strong in all specs

[power-alex]

Yes sir I'd be very happy to. please keep in mind that most of my experience has come from ranked arenas. Just to be clear I play a burst mara/sent. I may have been exaggerating a little bit with saying that the dps specs are way to strong, but that being said i have ran into enough sage's/sorcerer's in ranked that i have quit playing ranked for the time bring. when it comes to the rotation for balance/madness i don't know what the names of the powers are. The TK Sage/lightning sorcerer (I play these specs on my Sage/Sorcerer) the rotation follows as such "Weaken Mind/Affliction"-"Mind Crush/Crushing Darkness"-"Turbulence/Thundering blast"-"Telekinetic Wave/Chain Lightning"-"Telekinetic Gust/Lightning Flash"-"Telekinetic Burst/Lightning Bolt"-"Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning". If my enemy gets to close to me then there is more worry in the world, I have my "Force Stun/Electrocute"-"Bubble Stun"-"Force Speed" to stun and get some distance from my target so i can repeat the first rotation again. That's just the Dps rotation I use i'll post the healing rotation I use if needed

 

what kind of noobs have you been playing in ranked? Any competent mara or any melee for that matter would be able to shut you down and make you bubble before you have a chance to cast your first blast.

[Xanas]

If 2-3 players can't bring down a sage of any spec that's not the sages fault.

People obviously need to learn how to reliably deal damage I mean if you can't break over 1k dps (and that's the low end) on a melee toon Yeah you will never kill anything reliably and always be present in nerf x class threads.

 

You really have no clue what you are talking about. To damage that sorc you need to push trough enemy lines, follow him trough LOS, follow him trough a TON of CC, damage him trough a lot of damage mitigation and so on.

But then again all sorcs players are super pro and all other players are noobs. That makes sense since I see healer sorcs staying alive in this scenario all the time.

 

I wonder when people are going to stop throwing obvious OP **** under the "the others are just bad".

[Master-Nala]

You really have no clue what you are talking about.

 

Let's come back to this in a minute.

 

To damage that sorc you need to push trough enemy lines,

 

You mean other players? Which means it's your 2-3 players v. some other unspecified number of players. Why does a team v. a team suggest that Sorcs are OP to you?

 

follow him trough LOS, follow him trough a TON of CC, damage him trough a lot of damage mitigation and so on.

 

All this is unspecified. Everyone, even melee players can benefit from breaking line of sight occasionally. What does a "TON of CC" mean? What specific powers are you suggesting are the problem. And 'damage him through a lot of damage mitigation," what do you mean specifically?

 

 

But then again all sorcs players are super pro and all other players are noobs. That makes sense since I see healer sorcs staying alive in this scenario all the time.

 

I wonder when people are going to stop throwing obvious OP **** under the "the others are just bad".

 

Here's the problem. Everytime someone comes up with one of these ridiculous posts, I ask the same questions. What SPECIFIC powers do you believe are the problem and WHAT specific things would you do to fix them. Your posts are just more hyperbole and they honestly make it appear that you're the one with no clue.

 

I'll key you in to some of the answers you might be searching for. The 3.3 buffs were pretty silly to healing and they really should be removed. Additionally, backlash needs to cost more by moving it to the Heroic tier. I've suggested this for a long time. There is....evidence that both of those things will be coming to pass soon. Which is fine.

 

But if you are complaining about "a ton of damage mitigation" or a "Ton of CC" then please specify what you mean. Sorcs could use some tweaks, but no amount of whining by bad players is going to convince me that the class needs significant nerfs.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Master-Nala]

Yes sir I'd be very happy to. please keep in mind that most of my experience has come from ranked arenas. Just to be clear I play a burst mara/sent. I may have been exaggerating a little bit with saying that the dps specs are way to strong, but that being said i have ran into enough sage's/sorcerer's in ranked that i have quit playing ranked for the time bring. when it comes to the rotation for balance/madness i don't know what the names of the powers are. The TK Sage/lightning sorcerer (I play these specs on my Sage/Sorcerer) the rotation follows as such "Weaken Mind/Affliction"-"Mind Crush/Crushing Darkness"-"Turbulence/Thundering blast"-"Telekinetic Wave/Chain Lightning"-"Telekinetic Gust/Lightning Flash"-"Telekinetic Burst/Lightning Bolt"-"Telekinetic Throw/Force Lightning". If my enemy gets to close to me then there is more worry in the world, I have my "Force Stun/Electrocute"-"Bubble Stun"-"Force Speed" to stun and get some distance from my target so i can repeat the first rotation again. That's just the Dps rotation I use i'll post the healing rotation I use if needed

 

Are you suggesting that the entire Sorcerer rotation is overpowered? I'm confused by your post.

 

I'm not going to berate you, but I will suggest that you learn the powers that concern you. Understand what they do and how to counter them. As I noted above there are some tweaks that need to be made to Sorcerers, but wholesale nerfing isn't warranted.

[jediharrsion]

what kind of noobs have you been playing in ranked? Any competent mara or any melee for that matter would be able to shut you down and make you bubble before you have a chance to cast your first blast.

I was giving a simple example of my rotation. Please reread the first part of my post where I said I play a Marauder/Sentinel in ranked arenas. I never said anything about playing a Sage/Sorcerer in ranked

[jediharrsion]

Are you suggesting that the entire Sorcerer rotation is overpowered? I'm confused by your post.

 

I'm not going to berate you, but I will suggest that you learn the powers that concern you. Understand what they do and how to counter them. As I noted above there are some tweaks that need to be made to Sorcerers, but wholesale nerfing isn't warranted.

I'm not going to say that the rotation is overpowered but every time I have used it I was successful in melting the other player very fast. I will be fair and say that my main is not a sage/sorcerer, but I do understand what my abilities do thanks to some couching by a good friend

[Smuglebunny]

I just think the healing output of sorcs/sages in the seer/corruption specs needs to be reduced by a small percentage. And that is all. Otherwise they are fine.

 

I currently play:

 

TK sage

scrapper scoundrel/conc op

Veng Jugg

deception sin and shadow

fury mara

tactics VG

 

So I think I have a good understanding of the issue from many viewpoints. The burst in the Game right now is high but the healing output of sorcs and sages is just a BIT too high. The dps specs should remain un-nerfed or they will become too weak. Also, a number of people said its easy to play a dps sage well. Its not. There is actually a med-high skill cap due to having to bubble, heal and attack at the right times. Sort of like timing the rolls with Ops/scoundrel. So just like 10% total heal capacity reduction or a SLIGHT nerf to the energy mgmt of JUST HEAL SPECS.

 

Would be my opinion and suggestion.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Smuglebunny

[jedcjedcjedc]

Let me guess, you play a sorc/sage right? The rest of us think the class is a bit OP right now, more so in healing...

 

I think you speak too soon when you say "the rest of us"

[DariusCalera]

I just think the healing output of sorcs/sages in the seer/corruption specs needs to be reduced by a small percentage. And that is all. Otherwise they are fine.

 

I currently play:

 

TK sage

scrapper scoundrel/conc op

Veng Jugg

deception sin and shadow

fury mara

tactics VG

 

So I think I have a good understanding of the issue from many viewpoints. The burst in the Game right now is high but the healing output of sorcs and sages is just a BIT too high. The dps specs should remain un-nerfed or they will become too weak. Also, a number of people said its easy to play a dps sage well. Its not. There is actually a med-high skill cap due to having to bubble, heal and attack at the right times. Sort of like timing the rolls with Ops/scoundrel. So just like 10% total heal capacity reduction or a SLIGHT nerf to the energy mgmt of JUST HEAL SPECS.

 

Would be my opinion and suggestion.

 

Compared to a merc/mando or sniper/slinger a dps sorc/sage is incredibly easy.

[ChrisHDR]

I'm wondering, looking at the theorycrafting that some people have done Sorc aren't healing more than other healers (in fact they are a tiny bit behind Merc and quite a bit behind Operative according to this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=821885)

 

So if the Sorc is the healer with the lowest HPS how can they heal too much? Maybe if people perceive them to be overpowered it isn't healing but rather pvp specific utility that puts them over the top compared to other healers because at least in PvE they aren't op so it has to be something specific to PvP, right?

 

Or am I missing something?

[DarthKurt]

Madness/Balance is currently the lowest parsing spec in the game... it has already been nerfed to death.

Sorcs are uber squishy.

Please do not nerf again... the operatives, juggernaughts and powertechs are unfreakingstoppable... those are classes that should be nerfed.

[thebutthat]

I love these nerf threads. I love how they instantly get derailed by Nerf this class or that class please. However, let's use the problem solving technique, where we identify the specific problem and give good recommendations. Let me show you:

 

WRONG WAY:

Sorcerer's too hard to kill in all spec, please nerf. This provides no specifics, and just sounds like a L2P issue.

 

CORRECT WAY:

A madness sorcerer doing 2k DPS while having the ability to do 1500 HPS is absurd, and should be brought back in line with the other DPS classes that can also off/self heal. My recommendation would be to remove corrupted barrier from the utilities section and given specifically to healers only.

 

You don't have to be right, but it at least gives some specifics of your perceived imbalance and what you think might bring it in line.

[Xanas]

I think you speak too soon when you say "the rest of us"

 

Should I add "the rest of us that actually have the ability to hit leaderboards button"? If you are below the ability to hit leaderboards and see the discrepancy between classes then to bad for you.

The rest of us can notice how some classes, including sorcs (healers to be more exact and madness to a way lesser degree) are dominating the ladders.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Xanas

[Master-Nala]

Compared to a merc/mando or sniper/slinger a dps sorc/sage is incredibly easy.

 

Nonsense. Every class in this game with the exception of perhaps Annihilation, Concealment, and maybe Carnage are dead easy to play. Mercs aren't difficult, they simply don't have the tools to survive properly. That's a different problem altogether.

[Master-Nala]

I love these nerf threads. I love how they instantly get derailed by Nerf this class or that class please. However, let's use the problem solving technique, where we identify the specific problem and give good recommendations. Let me show you:

 

WRONG WAY:

Sorcerer's too hard to kill in all spec, please nerf. This provides no specifics, and just sounds like a L2P issue.

 

CORRECT WAY:

A madness sorcerer doing 2k DPS while having the ability to do 1500 HPS is absurd, and should be brought back in line with the other DPS classes that can also off/self heal. My recommendation would be to remove corrupted barrier from the utilities section and given specifically to healers only.

 

You don't have to be right, but it at least gives some specifics of your perceived imbalance and what you think might bring it in line.

 

This guy gets it.

 

It's alright to suggest that a class is overpowered, but be specific. AND BE RIGHT. Also try to think more globally than what you see. Sure Sorcerers heal more than other classes in DPS specs, but they also have no DR and no mitigation cooldowns. Healing and CC make up all their defensive tools. So when you're making suggestions, think about what you say.

 

Corrupted Barrier, as noted above, is really what you all are seeing when talk about H2F barrier, insane HPS numbers, etc. It's that one utility. However, it doesn't need to be left to only healers (who need it the least), it just needs to create an opportunity cost for Sorcerers to take it. Right now, it's a no brainer choice and so most have it.

 

I get so annoyed at these Sorc whining threads, because so many of you really don't understand why Sorcerers are very strong and how you can fix that without taking away options.

 

The utilities for Sorcs are the biggest problem with the class right now. The Masterful and Heroic tiers have little need to make choices and this pushes many Sorcs into having a multitude of strong options like Backlash, Corrupted Barrier and Force Mobility. If the devs wanted to tone down Sorcerers, all that would be needed is to move some of these powers around. Push Backlash up to Heroic and you've immediately created a situation where a Sorc loses either that, Corrupted Barrier or Force Mobility. That's a meaningful choice, which is good game design. It also reduces the power of the Sorc without taking away a tool, just creating an opportunity cost.

 

It may be in such as case that some folks will choose to keep Backlash and Mobility. Which means no H2F barrier. Or some will give up Mobility and and keep the defensive potential of the other two. Either way, the Sorc is now less strong, but nothing is taken away.

[masokka]

I love these nerf threads. I love how they instantly get derailed by Nerf this class or that class please. However, let's use the problem solving technique, where we identify the specific problem and give good recommendations. Let me show you:

 

WRONG WAY:

Sorcerer's too hard to kill in all spec, please nerf. This provides no specifics, and just sounds like a L2P issue.

 

CORRECT WAY:

A madness sorcerer doing 2k DPS while having the ability to do 1500 HPS is absurd, and should be brought back in line with the other DPS classes that can also off/self heal. My recommendation would be to remove corrupted barrier from the utilities section and given specifically to healers only.

 

You don't have to be right, but it at least gives some specifics of your perceived imbalance and what you think might bring it in line.

 

+1 to that

 

and also the only DPS classes that are OP atm are AP PT's and concealment operatives...the burst from both is insane

[jedcjedcjedc]

Should I add "the rest of us that actually have the ability to hit leaderboards button"? If you are below the ability to hit leaderboards and see the discrepancy between classes then to bad for you.

The rest of us can notice how some classes, including sorcs (healers to be more exact and madness to a way lesser degree) are dominating the ladders.

 

 

because yolo is the measuring stick lmao, sorry i forgot

[AlrikFassbauer]

because yolo is the measuring stick lmao, sorry i forgot

 

You only write so because you fear that something might get taken away from you if Solo Ranked was made the "real thing" and Group Ranked was declared to be what Group Ranked players now believe Solo Ranked is ...

[jedcjedcjedc]

You only write so because you fear that something might get taken away from you if Solo Ranked was made the "real thing" and Group Ranked was declared to be what Group Ranked players now believe Solo Ranked is ...

 

It's definitely not because Yolo is more than 50% luck based and has been FUBAR for ages now. Definitely not.

[SithKerr]

Poster is spot on. My sorc can blast you down like butter, do 1.8mil in a WZ with 800K healing. If you can't do that, it's a L2P issue with you. Uninstall and go play carebare. FTM sorc, use it.

[jedcjedcjedc]

those are some pretty arbitrary numbers

[Jake_Chambers]

Those numbers are really low, he's a garbage Sorc

 

Typical sorcs do about 2.8 million damage and 1.7 million heals, if you're a Sorc and don't (not cant but don't) break 3k dps or hps in every warzone, then you're a disgrace to the class.

 

There wouldn't be so many threads made about sorcs if they weren't god tier

Edited September 18, 2015 by Jake_Chambers

[Xanas]

because yolo is the measuring stick lmao, sorry i forgot

 

Its ranked, so it is. Moving on you are actually telling me sorcs are not more powerful then the other 2 healers in any type of PvP, including team ranked?

[jedcjedcjedc]

yolo shouldnt be used to measure my grandma's toenails, let alone class balance. anyway, I've stated my opinions on each of the three healers in multiple threads.

[Xanas]

yolo shouldnt be used to measure my grandma's toenails, let alone class balance. anyway, I've stated my opinions on each of the three healers in multiple threads.

 

Why? Because YOU say so? Sorry bud but solo ranked is just that, ranked. It gives rank and it also gives ranked rewards. To the point this stops being so it NEEDS to be balanced.