Listen to the hardcore players.

[Darth_Pants]

I agree with the OP. I've played several MMOs that went crap after the devs listened to too many casual gamers. They made everything easy and all the suposedly "Rare" stuff easy to get. Kind of kills the fun in an mmo when you dont have to work for anything!

 

name the several mmos please? or we will asume your comment is 100% ********.

[owenthorn]

lol, hardcore gamers, do not ever listen to them, they feel no one else deserves anything in the game, they are less than 1% of your population and always will be

 

in a certain other game, they changed things so only those who raided could get certain things, they focused it more on hard core elite mentality, subs plummeted down by several hundred thousand

 

it is the casual gamer, the on again off again, play couple times a week player, that is where your money comes from, not the less than 1% who think in there own minds they are special snowflakes and everyone must bow to them

 

you can feel the basement dwelling mentality in his post, I played longer, so I am special, he even colors his text to feel special, like his is a mod or an MVP, LOL childish

[luchiferchuga]

Look, the thing is, im not asking you to aspire to the top 1% but for the devs to design the game around keeping them happy. Sure nerf content for us lower down the scale later, when new content is released for them.

 

If you want a challenge go play naked and beat the boss with sticks.. your argument of the 1% is invalid because there will be always someone who is better and someone who is worse. Even is the game is full of casuals, there will be always one casual who will be 1% ahead of the curve... and according to you, the rest will want said casual items, because everyone likes to be herded.

[SnoggyMack]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

Absolutely. However, it needs to be focused properly. Those people who are already level 50 probably aren't the best suited to give feedback on gameplay and mechanics and stuff of that nature. Not very many of them are video game developers and so would be out of their element when dealing with code and the like. A few might be (and will probably chime in here and list their credentials). But they tend to be the exception to the rule.

 

I think the current level capped players need to be datamined by the developers for their critique of the game's story. Since they finished the story first, they can give the best feedback about its beginning, middle and end. They know how it ends, after all.

 

So yeah, definitely agree. Get those level 50s on board with reviewing and talking about the story that shapes this game. And do it fast!

[Phinion]

Yup... totaly agree that I am playing this game because you are ...

[Darth_Pants]

If this is true, then I am wrong.

 

I disagree, I think casuals DO want loot/gear, to be able to down a boss or forfill an achievement, you paint them like no brainers, like lobotomised drones, trying to do stuff without any purpose.

 

You paint them like saying "Ohhh! Pretty loot! I like geif moar!1"

 

I think casuals DO have the desire to compete and drive to get the gear of the players above them.

 

For example a player in the 34% bracket will desire the loot and acheivements of his peers in the 35% or higher bracket. Its human nature!

 

If what you are saying is true then I have got it completely wrong. Bioware is trying to cater to players without any direction or construct to their gameplay.

 

For this reason I consider you wrong.

 

and for this reason your initial argument is destroyed. according to your logic in the first post, they would quit the game when reaching the 35%. just like how when the top 1% quit, the NEW top 1% also quit. remember?

[Fyuria]

If you want a challenge go play naked and beat the boss with sticks.. your argument of the 1% is invalid because there will be always someone who is better and someone who is worse. Even is the game is full of casuals, there will be always one casual who will be 1% ahead of the curve... and according to you, the rest will want said casual items, because everyone likes to be herded.

 

We do tend to be a competitive society by nature but as you say that can be applied to virtually anything and someone always has to come out ahead regardless.

[Viera]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

These players win the loot and achieve the goals that the casual, poor and part-time (these are not the same player) players drive to emulate, they ride mounts and hold titles that pull the masses on to play the game.

 

Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players.

 

They are flat out wrong

 

Without the hardcore, uber players staying here neither will the casuals and masses. They say they will but if there are no top end players playing SW:TOR then it will become a bit of a joke in the mmo world.

 

Please I beg you BW, listen to those players that are already 50, already beginning endgame operations, these people KNOW what makes an MMO succeed and what will keep them playing.

 

Ultimately KEEP THE HARDCORE/Elite PLAYING = Keeping the masses playing.

 

*edit below..

 

No, I do think we are social animals though, that like it or not we do look up to those we play with, and ultimately those we play with look up to other people they know or play with.

 

My point is if you do not keep the very highest achievers interested in the game then they will move on, the effect of keeping these people interested is keeping all those that play down the chain interested.

 

Those saying "I only care what my friends do... etc" are only reinforcing my point, without knowing it.

 

The bottom 1% "look up" to the 2% the 2% aspires to achieve the 3%'s loot and success, it is a chain effect all the way to the top.

 

Please see:

[Scan]

I agree with the OP. While I am not a hardcore player, I do believe that the hardcore players determine the success of the game. If you have that base, then you don't have to worry about the casuals who come and go at the whim of a wipe or a ninja.

 

Indeed, it is the highest achievers that lay down the path of a successful mmo.

 

I do not think Rift (even though it had an AMAZING launch) catered for the hardcore.

 

If the top of the playerbase gets bored or is not challenged they move on, until the top of the playerbase is so lame that nothing about endgame is rare or excellent.

 

The highest achievers will move onto another game, leaving behind the casuals and mass of players that will also move to the game the high achievers move too in no time at all.

[Viera]

Also, does this mean the non-elite players can start calling themselves the 99%?

 

Occupy SWTOR!

 

lol

[Fyuria]

Also, does this mean the non-elite players can start calling themselves the 99%?

 

Occupy SWTOR!

 

lol

 

He is the 1%

[Turando]

Sigh....

 

It's not that devs shouldn't listen to hardcores. It's just that, hardcores account for 5-10% of subscription revenue.

 

Now, what would you do? Cater exclusively to the 5% and risk driving the game into the red? Many hardcores have great ideas that can be universally applied to everyone's benefit. Unfortunately, it seeems the majority of these hardcore suggestions are made to selfishly advance solely their enjoyment of the game at the expense of the rest of the player base. This is wrong. It's up to BW to find the right balance, and unfortunately that means almost 100% of us won't get exactly what we want all the time.

[SnoggyMack]

Occupy SWTOR is only going to cause more queues and lag.

 

[Darka]

There are always threads like this, where each group claims the devs need to listen to them as they are the better, bigger, priority group.

[luchiferchuga]

Indeed, it is the highest achievers that lay down the path of a successful mmo.

 

I do not think Rift (even though it had an AMAZING launch) catered for the hardcore.

 

If the top of the playerbase gets bored or is not challenged they move on, until the top of the playerbase is so lame that nothing about endgame is rare or excellent.

 

The highest achievers will move onto another game, leaving behind the casuals and mass of players that will also move to the game the high achievers move too in no time at all.

 

You are living a dream.. People didnt leave Everquest for WoW because the raiders left, they did it because it was new and shiny. In EvE there's a lot of hardcore players, and guess what.. casuals avoid it like a plague. What you say doesnt make sense at all.. and worst is that you dont listen to other people.

[Darka]

And good to see the Casuals getting blamed for anything and everything other players do not understand because its obviously their fault.

Blame Casuals!

Blame Casuals!

[Taciturnul]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

These players win the loot and achieve the goals that the casual, poor and part-time (these are not the same player) players drive to emulate, they ride mounts and hold titles that pull the masses on to play the game.

 

Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players.

 

They are flat out wrong

 

Without the hardcore, uber players staying here neither will the casuals and masses. They say they will but if there are no top end players playing SW:TOR then it will become a bit of a joke in the mmo world.

 

Please I beg you BW, listen to those players that are already 50, already beginning endgame operations, these people KNOW what makes an MMO succeed and what will keep them playing.

 

Ultimately KEEP THE HARDCORE/Elite PLAYING = Keeping the masses playing.

 

*edit below..

 

No, I do think we are social animals though, that like it or not we do look up to those we play with, and ultimately those we play with look up to other people they know or play with.

 

My point is if you do not keep the very highest achievers interested in the game then they will move on, the effect of keeping these people interested is keeping all those that play down the chain interested.

 

Those saying "I only care what my friends do... etc" are only reinforcing my point, without knowing it.

 

The bottom 1% "look up" to the 2% the 2% aspires to achieve the 3%'s loot and success, it is a chain effect all the way to the top.

 

In my country there's a saying that goes like this: Heavens gardens are huge and many idiots jumped the fence with the gates open. Goes perfectly for this guy here.

Close the thread and move along.

[Cormey]

You are completely misreading the points.

 

Im not asking you to worship the top 1%.

 

Lets say you are in the 76% bracket of player, your skill and your time spent in game places you in this bracket, you see your friends in different brackets, those slightly above you in the 78 or 82% bracket achieve things in game you want. You see your friend get the DarkLord title. You want this, so you strive to achieve it. With enough time and dedication you get it, this may move you up slightly in imaginary percentage bracket.

 

My point is although you look at the top 1% with disgust you are acutally aspiring to it, although in a microcosm surrounding you. You may say, "I dont do anything the elitist jerks do" but you do, players that are REALLY bad and give you endless wipes would not make your group.

 

Are you elitist for not inviting johnnylazors, he only wears greens and doesnt know how to heal even though he is healing spec, do you invite him as a healer? No? Are you elitist?

 

Look, the thing is, im not asking you to aspire to the top 1% but for the devs to design the game around keeping them happy. Sure nerf content for us lower down the scale later, when new content is released for them.

 

Do you have some sort of percentage fetish?

 

Let's say i'm casual (which i am), i don't care what percentage i'm in. I also don't know or care what percentage my friends are in, they're my friends, that's what matters.

Again you're thinking that everyone else thinks like you, I for one do not.

 

And no I don't look at the top 1% with disgust, they barely enter my thoughts. There's an old saying that goes "you wouldn't be so worried about what people thought of you if you realised how little they did." Which basically means people tend to be thinking more of themselves and not you in particular.

 

I would also invite johnny, again i'm not too interested in the MUST WIN mindset. It's good to win, sure, and it's frustrating to lose, but it's just a game and to me that's no reason to kick someone else out and make them feel worse when i could be offering them help (which at times, actually feels a hell of a lot better than just winning).

 

1% is just that, and that's how much the devs should cater to it. 1% of their total dev time, money and resources.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Cormey

[MajikMyst]

Blizzard listened to hardcore players.. Why do you think they have Panda bears and Pokemon?? Not to mention countless reskins and reused raids in the game??

 

Bioware needs to listen to all of their paying customers..

 

Anyone that says they should listen to one group over another is just plain wrong..

[MylzDavis]

Do you have some sort of percentage fetish?

 

Let's say i'm casual (which i am), i don't care what percentage i'm in. I also don't know or care what percentage my friends are in, they're my friends, that's what matters.

Again you're thinking that everyone else thinks like you, I for one do not.

 

And no I don't look at the top 1% with disgust, they barely enter my thoughts. There's an old saying that goes "you wouldn't be so worried about what people thought of you if you realised how little they did." Which basically means people tend to be thinking more of themselves and not you in particular.

 

I would also invite johnny, again i'm not too interested in the MUST WIN mindset. It's good to win, sure, and it's frustrating to lose, but it's just a game and to me that's no reason to kick someone else out and make them feel worse when i could be offering them help (which at times, actually feels a hell of a lot better than just winning).

 

1% is just that, and that's how much the devs should cater to it. 1% of their total dev time, money and resources.

 

well said...

[Ujest]

To the OP, having been one of those Hardcore players you speak of, in another game a few years ago, I can say with absolute certainty, you do not know what you speak of. The percentage of players in the hardcore sector is far less then where the money is. The money has been and will always be in what is so derisively called the casual player base. Without casual players no MMO would exist for long.

 

 

But you are right about one thing, and I quote "Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players." In this one thing you are correct; this game does not need the Hardcore Player.

[Fyuria]

In my country there's a saying that goes like this: Heavens gardens are huge and many idiots jumped the fence with the gates open. Goes perfectly for this guy here.

Close the thread and move along.

 

I'd never heard that one before and I enjoy learning new sayings so thank you .

 

Could you tell me which country that was?

[Beregonn]

Anyone playing SWTOR is by definition not a hardcore player. Go play Darkfall or EVE if you want to be hardcore. I love those games, just don't have the time anymore.

 

People who think they are "hardcore" playing games like this are just virtual gym class heroes. They should go play a real "sport" instead of picking on all the fat kids that don't get dressed for gym.

 

 

This is sooooo true! And quit picking on me just cuz im a little chunky!

 

This is the same story with every new MMO. When MMOs first came out, they were all "hardcore" by nature. But now a lot of us are all grown up with kids hanging off of us and jobs (a job is what some of us have to do to make money hardcore peeps) we don't have the time for leets hardz corez .... stuff.

 

So now many new games are geared for the "casual" gamer. You can't take that away so give it up. (see my above comment on a "job" which means money for the MMO industry)

 

So my last point is if you guys are sooooo "hardcore" ... why aren't you playing a game that is "hardcore"?? They are out there.

 

Is it because you think you have to have a lot of casual gamers to strut in front of? Because if that is what you think let me help you now.... pssst... come closer... listen .....

 

*ahem* We, Don't, Care.......

Edited December 26, 2011 by Beregonn

[Scan]

Sigh....

 

It's not that devs shouldn't listen to hardcores. It's just that, hardcores account for 5-10% of subscription revenue.

 

Now, what would you do? Cater exclusively to the 5% and risk driving the game into the red? Many hardcores have great ideas that can be universally applied to everyone's benefit. Unfortunately, it seeems the majority of these hardcore suggestions are made to selfishly advance solely their enjoyment of the game at the expense of the rest of the player base. This is wrong. It's up to BW to find the right balance, and unfortunately that means almost 100% of us won't get exactly what we want all the time.

 

I do not know how to explain it any clearer.

 

It seems i just cannot get it over, I just keep reading the same replies that are refering to the point im trying to make as wrong.

 

The devs NEED to cater to the top 1%.

 

Why?

 

So the players in the 1% bracket below keep playing to achieve what the players in the 1% bracket above them do.

 

Then the players in the 1% bracket below them keep playing to achieve the same or as much as possible as the ones above.

 

Then the players in the 1% bracket below them .. . etc

 

 

It trickles down, as the game moves forward NERF the content so its easier BUT not before new content is released to challenge to the TOP 1% again.

 

*************************************************

 

I hope that is clearer. I AM NOT ASKING people to worship the top 1% I am not asking people to cater to elitism or that the devs cater to elitism.

 

Im just asking the Devs to listen to the highest acheivers in the game, and keep them interested, all the rest of us below the top 1% then will follow our respective peers.

 

I for example would place myself in a roughly 70-80% bracket of gamer, lets just say 75% for arguments sake, I look up too my peers and friends in the 1% bracket above me. I want to complete the achievements they have.

 

I want to get the loot they have, its not easy and it takes time, but I do strive for this gear becuase they have it, becuase I enjoy playing the game with them. Now they in turn have peers and friends that play in a higher bracket than them.

 

Thus there is a chain, an unbroken link to the top players.

[Aesri]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

These players win the loot and achieve the goals that the casual, poor and part-time (these are not the same player) players drive to emulate, they ride mounts and hold titles that pull the masses on to play the game.

 

Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players.

 

They are flat out wrong

 

Without the hardcore, uber players staying here neither will the casuals and masses. They say they will but if there are no top end players playing SW:TOR then it will become a bit of a joke in the mmo world.

 

Please I beg you BW, listen to those players that are already 50, already beginning endgame operations, these people KNOW what makes an MMO succeed and what will keep them playing.

 

Ultimately KEEP THE HARDCORE/Elite PLAYING = Keeping the masses playing.

 

*edit below..

 

No, I do think we are social animals though, that like it or not we do look up to those we play with, and ultimately those we play with look up to other people they know or play with.

 

My point is if you do not keep the very highest achievers interested in the game then they will move on, the effect of keeping these people interested is keeping all those that play down the chain interested.

 

Those saying "I only care what my friends do... etc" are only reinforcing my point, without knowing it.

 

The bottom 1% "look up" to the 2% the 2% aspires to achieve the 3%'s loot and success, it is a chain effect all the way to the top.

 

 

o.O Seriously?!? I've seen ego-strokes, self-pandering, elitist thought processes in my time but THIS takes the cookie, chief.

 

I don't care WHAT anyone else does regarding 'achievement', HOW they do it, WHEN they do it, WHY they do it or WHO does it. Yay for you (or whomever) but these so-called "percent" castes are a load of bunk. Maybe some people DO think/act/behave in that manner, but as I can only speak for myself, I shall do so...

 

I'm not a lemming. I could play this game (and do often) not having a single **** to give if there is another living person playing. I never drank the Kool-Aid of our school years that tried like hell to establish a social pecking order as the "fundamental" truth to all things.

 

Achieve or don't. I don't care. Be first or not. I don't care. Not a SINGLE person here outside those I know from my guild are in any way, shape or form important to me beyond offering the same sort of interpersonal respect that I would have given to me, nothing more or less. So I feel quite comfortable in saying that your wanna-be universal truth put forth in that keyboard vomit of an OP has about as much support as a rational conceptualization of MMO social interaction as the Titanic's ultimate chances of successfully arriving at New York.

 

Have fun with that though.

 

Just.....wow...heh.