Listen to the hardcore players.

[Racquerr]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

These players win the loot and achieve the goals that the casual, poor and part-time (these are not the same player) players drive to emulate, they ride mounts and hold titles that pull the masses on to play the game.

 

Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players.

 

They are flat out wrong

 

Without the hardcore, uber players staying here neither will the casuals and masses. They say they will but if there are no top end players playing SW:TOR then it will become a bit of a joke in the mmo world.

 

Please I beg you BW, listen to those players that are already 50, already beginning endgame operations, these people KNOW what makes an MMO succeed and what will keep them playing.

 

Ultimately KEEP THE HARDCORE/Elite PLAYING = Keeping the masses playing.

 

*edit below..

 

No, I do think we are social animals though, that like it or not we do look up to those we play with, and ultimately those we play with look up to other people they know or play with.

 

My point is if you do not keep the very highest achievers interested in the game then they will move on, the effect of keeping these people interested is keeping all those that play down the chain interested.

 

Those saying "I only care what my friends do... etc" are only reinforcing my point, without knowing it.

 

 

It's already been noted that Bioware can't and isn't going to completely pay attention only to those who decided to go all out on a game just released.

 

BioWare will need to stay attentive to players' demands over time. A few people who started playing weeks ago during the beta period have already reached the maximum level of 50.

 

BioWare is not concerned that its gargantuan product has already been defeated. There are always some sleepless diehards, and developers cannot pay attention only to them, BioWare co-founder Greg Zeschuk said in an interview.

 

Slow the heck down. Experience the other story lines, help those who need it with their flashpoints but don't go demanding more content because you decided to spend the better part of release week awake on a diet of Mountain Dew.

 

Warping to level 50 on a game just released was probably not the best decision and those who have really need to deal with he consequences of doing so. Constructive criticism is great but I highly doubt anyone who has whipped to lvl 50 already really has thoroughly examined every aspect of the game they could have to generate any.

[Yuichix]

I think WoW is about to implode, if WoW sibs increase with KungFu Panda and Pokemon, thats it, the MMO as I know it is dead.

 

I agree with you on that. If Kung Fu WOW panda ranks in subs the MMO genre is offically dead...until GW2 that is. Least those tells usually never listen to the nerf this nerf that this to hard people.

 

AARRGHHHHH!!!

 

Look I know you dont have to look up to the top 1% but you do "look up" to those you play with, you might be in the 55% bracket, you do look up to players in the 56% bracket, you want to get their loot, you want to achieve their achievements.

 

I'm not saying everyone look up to the top 1% but that its a chain effect.

 

But even if the top 1% leave for XYZ reasons there will just be another new top 1% to take its place. I will agree that there is a certain percent of players that say "do this to game wow had it" and when they do those players say "omg wow 2.0 I am leaving". Look at what Rift does tho. A new raiding tier every 2-3 months and until recently no real way for someone who is late to the game to gear up and go join a guild to raid top tier. That turned many many people off(along with devs making the game into suck to of course). So devs need to listen to BOTH sides and come to a good neutral, which of course will never make everyone happy but that's life.

[Scan]

No one looks at another player and says, "They have that gear and achievements, they're better than me, obviously I must get it." That is what hardcore players do to each other to compete with each other. Casuals take gear they like or find and rarely focus on achievements.

 

If this is true, then I am wrong.

 

I disagree, I think casuals DO want loot/gear, to be able to down a boss or forfill an achievement, you paint them like no brainers, like lobotomised drones, trying to do stuff without any purpose.

 

You paint them like saying "Ohhh! Pretty loot! I like geif moar!1"

 

I think casuals DO have the desire to compete and drive to get the gear of the players above them.

 

For example a player in the 34% bracket will desire the loot and acheivements of his peers in the 35% or higher bracket. Its human nature!

 

If what you are saying is true then I have got it completely wrong. Bioware is trying to cater to players without any direction or construct to their gameplay.

 

For this reason I consider you wrong.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Scan

[luchiferchuga]

AARRGHHHHH!!!

 

Look I know you dont have to look up to the top 1% but you do "look up" to those you play with, you might be in the 55% bracket, you do look up to players in the 56% bracket, you want to get their loot, you want to achieve their achievements.

 

I'm not saying everyone look up to the top 1% but that its a chain effect.

 

Also, you dont really "look up", if I am mounting a Rancor and I am the average joe... I will get a lot of whispers of "where did you get it?".

 

In WoW I've decided to do all the achievements possible, the loremaster, the fishing contests, etc... I wasnt a top tier player, I was a hardcore non raider player. I spent days and days in Azeroth receiving whispers of "where did you get the flipping coin and such".. I just hated raiding because there is no point on chasing a carrot (the raid instance) forever like we were rabbits.

Edited December 26, 2011 by luchiferchuga

[Blazenor]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

These players win the loot and achieve the goals that the casual, poor and part-time (these are not the same player) players drive to emulate, they ride mounts and hold titles that pull the masses on to play the game.

 

Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players.

 

They are flat out wrong

 

Without the hardcore, uber players staying here neither will the casuals and masses. They say they will but if there are no top end players playing SW:TOR then it will become a bit of a joke in the mmo world.

 

Please I beg you BW, listen to those players that are already 50, already beginning endgame operations, these people KNOW what makes an MMO succeed and what will keep them playing.

 

Ultimately KEEP THE HARDCORE/Elite PLAYING = Keeping the masses playing.

 

*edit below..

 

No, I do think we are social animals though, that like it or not we do look up to those we play with, and ultimately those we play with look up to other people they know or play with.

 

My point is if you do not keep the very highest achievers interested in the game then they will move on, the effect of keeping these people interested is keeping all those that play down the chain interested.

 

Those saying "I only care what my friends do... etc" are only reinforcing my point, without knowing it.

 

The bottom 1% "look up" to the 2% the 2% aspires to achieve the 3%'s loot and success, it is a chain effect all the way to the top.

 

You couldn't be more wrong. In any game there will always be someone at top (and not hardcore) and those who are not will try to reach those players.

 

For the record, you have zero prove to anything you just said.

[Oneiros_IV]

Elitism and trolling aside in fact it's good players driving MMO communities not generic nice guys and weekend warriors. And while OP sounds like a **** he's right at some point

[iain_b]

Sorry OP but the "hardcore" players are a very small minority of any MMO.

[Travisdk]

If this is true, then I am wrong.

 

I disagree, I think casuals DO want loot/gear, to down a boss or forfill an achievement, you paint them like no brainers, like lobotomised drones, trying to do stuff without any purpose.

 

You paint them like saying "Ohhh! Pretty loot! I like )) geif moar!"

 

I think casual DO have the desire to compete and drive to get the gear of the players above them.

 

For example a player in the 34% bracket will desire the loot and acheivements of his peers in the 35% or higher bracket. Its human nature!

 

If what you are saying is true then I have got it completely wrong. Bioware is trying to cater to players without any direction or construct to their gameplay.

 

For this reason I consider you wrong.

Welcome to reality.

 

Casuals really don't strive for specific goals. That is why we are casuals. We log in, if we find loot that is better, fine, if we don't, too bad, we move on. We don't inspect higher level or more hardcore players for hours.

 

You're stuck in the mindset that everyone acts like a hardcore, and that being casual simply means playing for less time. That is not the case. Every MMO does and should cater to casuals, as they are and always will be the majority. MMO's can succeed without hardcore players, because even if someone does want to compete, they can simply compete with better casual players. Hardcore players have no role in an MMO's success.

 

You've provided no proof beyond "Oh, well, competition, blah blah." But where do hardcore players fit into this? Some casual players compete with each other. They don't need hardcore players to compete with.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Travisdk

[Fyuria]

Elitism and trolling aside in fact it's good players driving MMO communities not generic nice guys and weekend warriors. And while OP sounds like a **** he's right at some point

 

I don't believe he is wrong so much as it's not as relevant in todays market as it was back when MMO's and gaming in general was a lot more niche and looked down upon and not mainstream as it is quickly becoming.

[Sitiran]

It is obvious that the devs of this game and any MMO need to listen to the hardcore players.

 

Too those players already 50 and beginning some of the endgame.

 

These players win the loot and achieve the goals that the casual, poor and part-time (these are not the same player) players drive to emulate, they ride mounts and hold titles that pull the masses on to play the game.

 

Now you are going to see ALOT of responses from players saying they DONT want this, that they dont look to players that play insanely long periods, or succeed with less time played. They will say that the game does NOT need these players.

 

They are flat out wrong

 

Without the hardcore, uber players staying here neither will the casuals and masses. They say they will but if there are no top end players playing SW:TOR then it will become a bit of a joke in the mmo world.

 

Please I beg you BW, listen to those players that are already 50, already beginning endgame operations, these people KNOW what makes an MMO succeed and what will keep them playing.

 

Ultimately KEEP THE HARDCORE/Elite PLAYING = Keeping the masses playing.

 

*edit below..

 

No, I do think we are social animals though, that like it or not we do look up to those we play with, and ultimately those we play with look up to other people they know or play with.

 

My point is if you do not keep the very highest achievers interested in the game then they will move on, the effect of keeping these people interested is keeping all those that play down the chain interested.

 

Those saying "I only care what my friends do... etc" are only reinforcing my point, without knowing it.

 

 

I completely disagree with you. My friends and I who play this game are having a great time, and the story is fantastic. Coming up to the end of the first chapter I thought to myself for a moment, "Oh no I should save.... wait... haha".

 

Honestly, to us, all the "hardcore" or "elite" players could leave and we wouldn't care. You see we are thoroughly enjoying this game and everything it has to offer. If you guys (the hardcore community) want to leave, hey, it's your loss. I'm gonna keep playing and having fun.

 

If I do happen to leave the game, it certainly be due to no elite players (inb4 you mention that elite players drive endgame development, Bioware is already planning many things to expand the game). No, it would be because of a hectic life. I simply don't care what other players.

 

[Pyrix]

What the hell is the OP talking about?

[Huntcore]

Meh he definitely has some valid points but casuals rule the mmo world now

[Oneiros_IV]

Sorry OP but the "hardcore" players are a very small minority of any MMO

 

And yet games become uncompetitive deserted mire without them.

[DirtyDozen]

Elitism and trolling aside in fact it's good players driving MMO communities not generic nice guys and weekend warriors. And while OP sounds like a **** he's right at some point

 

I guess this is what "hardcore" players have to tell themselves in order to quell the remorse of missing the real life that passed them by while they "hardcored" their way to MMO greatness.

Edited December 26, 2011 by DirtyDozen

[Travisdk]

What the hell is the OP talking about?

 

Elitism.

[luchiferchuga]

I don't believe he is wrong so much as it's not as relevant in todays market as it was back when MMO's and gaming in general was a lot more niche and looked down upon and not mainstream as it is quickly becoming.

 

Exactly, raiding and elitism was important 5 years ago or more. Now is irrelevant who has what in a videogame.

[Scan]

..But even if the top 1% leave for XYZ reasons there will just be another new top 1% to take its place. .

 

Then see the follow on, the new top 1% will move on too, until you get to a percentage the endgame does challenge, say around the 60% mark, at this point the players looking at the game from the outside will look at it in disdain.

 

As trite as that sounds it will happen, SW:TOR then gets the meme of a kids game or baby game etc, then more will leave as the meme spreads.

 

My point is, deliver to the highest achievers and then NERF the content as new content is given to them. It works!

[Neverknowenuff]

Totally Disagree I play MMO's to have fun with my friends and meet new to do some in game stuff. Personally the eliest jerk who dont let me in a group, complain because I miss clicked in a PvP match and block the mail box's with there mount because they have nothing better to do with there time are what put me off MMO's and give the games a bad name.

 

I am personally hoping that this game will be fun for all but being as they are not the majority I hope bioware makes this game the most fun for the majority of players and not the hardcore few.

[Travisdk]

Then see the follow on, the new top 1% will move on too, until you get to a percentage the endgame does challenge, say around the 60% mark, at this point the players looking at the game from the outside will look at it in disdain.

 

As trite as that sounds it will happen, SW:TOR then gets the meme of a kids game or baby game etc, then more will leave as the meme spreads.

 

My point is, deliver to the highest achievers and then NERF the content as new content is given to them. It works!

 

No, it doesn't work. How does catering to the 1% works? That is like saying the US economic system works, because it is the exact same. The economic system (MMO) caters to the richest (most hardcore), while the middle class or poor (casuals) get ****ed over. Eventually there is an economic collapse (MMO failure), and everyone realizes it is too late to fix what has been done.

 

Hardcore players have no role in an MMO's success. Without hardcore players, MMO's would succeed. Casual players that wanted competition (and most do not, hence why they're casual players) would compete with each other. Casual players would like the game if it was catered to them, thus bringing more casual players into the game. Cycle of success.

 

Welcome to reality.

[Gruug]

And so.....the ELITISM begins. Sad that some minority of players thinks this or any game must cater to them alone. What this elitist in his sad commentary forgets is that WE the "average" gamer (by his definition) are not cattle that need to be herded by our masters.

 

Bioware, please...regardless of what these elitists say, give us YOUR VISION of what SWTOR should be before changining it. In fact, don't change it.

[luchiferchuga]

Then see the follow on, the new top 1% will move on too, until you get to a percentage the endgame does challenge, say around the 60% mark, at this point the players looking at the game from the outside will look at it in disdain.

 

As trite as that sounds it will happen, SW:TOR then gets the meme of a kids game or baby game etc, then more will leave as the meme spreads.

 

My point is, deliver to the highest achievers and then NERF the content as new content is given to them. It works!

 

I thought WoW has the meme of a kids game with cartoony graphics, and that meme was brought by the hardcore players of EvE online (a.ka. excel in space). Would you really leave a game just beacuse someone else is telling you that the game sucks and its for child? Please grow up.

 

Scan.. just tell me you leave a game if some random person on the internet tells you to do it and I will agree with you on everything you have said so far. Please.. be that feeble minded.

Edited December 26, 2011 by luchiferchuga

[MrTijger]

all the mmo's have got it wrong since wow, wow gets away with it because it established a large player base, **** they could turn wow into a pong game now and it would still out sub most other games.

 

Yeah, whats your point? Oh, the hardcore wanted panda's and pokemon? Gotcha.

[cdstephen]

And what do these people want? Because that matters more than who these people are...

[Vonexar]

It's a good idea to cater some content to those hardcore players. Setting a higher bar for players to attain to is a driving force in the MMO game.

 

It's also a good idea to keep your casual players happy. Keeping massive numbers of players in the game does just that, keeps massive numbers of players in the game. In order to make any number of players happy the game needs a revenue stream which is obtained by keeping the majority happy as long as possible.

 

The hardcore players can't sustain the game on their own. The casual players do want to play in the areas where the hardcore players also play. Where it may take them many months longer to attain the same goals as the hardcore player but they know those goals are there. Someone else paved the way ahead of them.

 

Both arguments are right but the key here is to balance the development team and set appropriate priorities on their assigned tasks.

[Scan]

Totally Disagree I play MMO's to have fun with my friends and meet new to do some in game stuff. Personally the eliest jerk who dont let me in a group, complain because I miss clicked in a PvP match and block the mail box's with there mount because they have nothing better to do with there time are what put me off MMO's and give the games a bad name.

 

I am personally hoping that this game will be fun for all but being as they are not the majority I hope bioware makes this game the most fun for the majority of players and not the hardcore few.

 

You are completely misreading the points.

 

Im not asking you to worship the top 1%.

 

Lets say you are in the 76% bracket of player, your skill and your time spent in game places you in this bracket, you see your friends in different brackets, those slightly above you in the 78 or 82% bracket achieve things in game you want. You see your friend get the DarkLord title. You want this, so you strive to achieve it. With enough time and dedication you get it, this may move you up slightly in imaginary percentage bracket.

 

My point is although you look at the top 1% with disgust you are acutally aspiring to it, although in a microcosm surrounding you. You may say, "I dont do anything the elitist jerks do" but you do, players that are REALLY bad and give you endless wipes would not make your group.

 

Are you elitist for not inviting johnnylazors, he only wears greens and doesnt know how to heal even though he is healing spec, do you invite him as a healer? No? Are you elitist?

 

Look, the thing is, im not asking you to aspire to the top 1% but for the devs to design the game around keeping them happy. Sure nerf content for us lower down the scale later, when new content is released for them.