Conquest Changes in Fallen Empire

[Grayseven]

I like this change, if only because it puts all aspects of game play on an even field.

 

And if you'll notice, it's only the "Conquest: War Supplies" that is getting turned into a once per legacy achievement. Right now, it gives 500 per crafted War Supply. The Conquest rewards of 250 points for each of the specific War Supplies is still going to be available. So instead of getting 750 for each of the War Supplies you craft you'll only get 250 per and a one time 2000 point legacy craft.

 

This puts crafting on par with PvP and FP/OPs. You can still "craft to victory" but it will take 3 times the number of crafted items it did before the change. And people running FPs and OPs or playing PvP can now compete on a level field. Of course, the people who do a little of everything will now take planets more readily without burning out their crafting supplies to do it.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Dailies? Pfft, who said anything about dailiness?

I said if you know what you're doing. I didn't get 100's of millions over only 3 toons doing dailies I assure you.

 

In saying that, if noone did dailies none of us would have very many credits.

 

Also I'm in favour of keeping crafting as your post seems to imply I'm against it.

Your reply to me came over the "small guilds" issue to which I stand by the point if conquest and it's rewards mean so much then you might as well aim to be a big guild.

 

You have a guild of 20 close friends, you grow that guild, you still have your 20 close friends plus more. What's the issue? You don't disband your guild and go join another, you grow the one you have.

 

Unfortunately too many GMs seem to have the small guild attitude and not even want to attempt to grow their guild and in the same breath complain about how big guilds dominate conquest ... too bad.

 

You seem to misunderstand what I was saying.

 

I am not saying, "disband my guild." There is a difference between infiltrating another guild and disbanding your own guild, as anyone who has played EVE Online seriously knows.

 

In EVE Online, guilds (called corporations or corps there) routinely infiltrate other guilds to accomplish various goals, whether it be spying/intel, internal sabotage, theft, etc. That does not mean that they disband their origin guild. They just make a new alt to place into the rival organization, and use such spy alts to accomplish their goals.

 

We occasionally hear about theft from guild banks here, but that mentality is much more pervasive in EVE Online. It is posts like this:

 

Well, after this change, my guild will be done with Conquest. Why? Because we're small and crafting was the great equalizer for us to be competitive. It was hard enough to keep ahead of the material needs for crafting, but we were able to do it.

 

For us, Conquest was really the only way for us to unlock the rooms of our guild ship that we worked hard to pay for. We had a common goal to unlock all the rooms, and it was that goal that kept us hitting the top 10 each week. It was a challenge we accepted, and we didn't complain about big guilds and the sheer numbers they brought to the table. We just figured out a way to compensate. Along the way, we actually won two planets, too - something we never thought possible at our size, although we always tried. Oddly enough, we started conquest hardcore just after the turn of the year and we've managed to place every week. Now, it's all going away.

 

With this change, as a husband, father and full time architect and author, there's simply not enough time for me to get the same results without crafting. The other members of our guild are in similar situations. Our guild won't get absorbed into another guild - we're pretty independent and have been playing various games together since we all met back in the early 2000's to consider that. It's not that we're antisocial, it's just that we've worked very hard to build what we have in this game to throw it away and join a larger guild that really won't give a damn that we're there or not. If this has any effect whatsoever on us, it will probably be part of the catalyst that will prompt us to move to the next game on the horizon.

 

^^that illustrates why our guild presently intends to adapt by adopting a devil-may-care-for-ethics, EVE-Online style attitude, rather than giving up on conquests entirely. Instead of railing against how unfair the conquest system is because it is tilted in favor of large guilds (something we are doing now in the probably futile hope that EAware will listen to feedback about this change), we will turn the size of larger guilds to our own advantage, using their own size to guarantee a supply of encryptions for our normal ingame activities, all the while remaining a separate and distinct entity with our own raidcall and our non-conquest characters still in our own guild.

 

Again, so much work vs just growing your initial guild.

 

I didn't mean it in regards of larger guilds carrying small guilds. I meant it as in the game having to cater to them to a feature that is clearly more geared up towards larger guilds.

 

It's guild vs guild after all, if you're guild is smaller than of course you're at a disadvantage and so you should be.

Why should their be systems in place to to make the hard work a large guild did growing be disadvantaged?

 

There is NOTHING in the game stopping a small guild beocming large, only choice and excuses. If it were an actual limitation that somehow made it unfair I could see a need for a balancing system but it's a choice factor and nothing more so there is quite simply no need.

 

Faced with this planned change, our guild effectively has three choices:

 

1) Give up,

2) Recruit, as you suggest, or

3) Infiltrate larger guilds.

 

We disfavor the first option for obvious reasons. As for recruiting, we occasionally do that, but not very often, as we have a certain culture that vaguely resembles a Marine Corps platoon, and that culture does not scale very well. You are right that it is our choice to remain small...we have an expectation that guild members should WANT to contribute to the guild as a single, cohesive unit rather than seek to take the guild's resources for their own (I say this as someone who has personally spent around a third of a billion on guild ship expansion and decoration unlocks over time, btw), and that expectation is in fundamental tension with a lot of would-be recruits who are just out for freebies and are unwilling to be taught how to be better players. For example, we don't want someone who dies instantly, and then when advised about available defensive cooldowns, replies with "L2P Nooooob!"

 

So, that leaves the third option. A bit unsavory, but as Bioware insists upon removing the viability of conquests for small guilds, the one that we are left with. We do take notice that such infiltration is a time-honored tradition in warfare and so we will adapt it to our own needs.

 

Well now you're just putting words in my mouth and jumping to conclusions on what I think ... very poor form.

 

Fair enough.

 

I quite liked how a small guild could put the crafting effort in to beating a large guild on the old system or could repeat any set of circumstances non stop to achieve it.

 

I prefer the old system as is to this silly concept of a new system.

 

My POINT in regards to small guilds with this system is there shouldn't be some stupid mathmatical balancing system put in place to make the work the small guild does on an individual basis worth more than that of a large guild.

 

Perhaps read my first wee rant post to truly see my thoughts on these changes.

 

No, not for the personal rewards but adding a guild target score also. So your small guild has a goal it can aim for and it's not affected by the rank of a large guild.

 

The notion of guilds having a per capita guild target (or something similar that scales to the size of the guild), to be able to earn worthwhile rewards without having to worry about the top 10, would also work. The devs are here complaining that conquest is underutilized; yet they want to remove the one thing (crafting) that tends to increase utilization, especially for smaller guilds, because it's used too much. It's inherently contradictory, and if the devs want to increase participation in conquests while simultaneously removing "the great equalizer" of crafting that allows small guilds a chance to compete, they will have to find some way to jettison the all-or-nothing nature of conquest that disincentivizes so many from participating.

 

Hint for Bioware: If your guild can't make the top 10, there's no point in participating.

Edited September 9, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[Psychopyro]

I like this change, if only because it puts all aspects of game play on an even field.

 

And if you'll notice, it's only the "Conquest: War Supplies" that is getting turned into a once per legacy achievement. Right now, it gives 500 per crafted War Supply. The Conquest rewards of 250 points for each of the specific War Supplies is still going to be available. So instead of getting 750 for each of the War Supplies you craft you'll only get 250 per and a one time 2000 point legacy craft.

 

This puts crafting on par with PvP and FP/OPs. You can still "craft to victory" but it will take 3 times the number of crafted items it did before the change. And people running FPs and OPs or playing PvP can now compete on a level field. Of course, the people who do a little of everything will now take planets more readily without burning out their crafting supplies to do it.

Umm no... The 250 is not available for every event. As a matter of fact, only 3 of the 14 events have the 250 specific crafting one....

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

And if you'll notice, it's only the "Conquest: War Supplies" that is getting turned into a once per legacy achievement. Right now, it gives 500 per crafted War Supply. The Conquest rewards of 250 points for each of the specific War Supplies is still going to be available. So instead of getting 750 for each of the War Supplies you craft you'll only get 250 per and a one time 2000 point legacy craft.

 

 

There are only 3 events that what you say pertains too, the rest the only crafting is invasion force and war supplies I believe?

[Elderbert]

• The Objective “Conquest: War Supplies” is no longer repeatable and is set to reward 2,000 Conquest Points for any Conquest that included that objective.
  

These changes will be reflected in Knights of the Fallen Empire when it launches. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

aka dear gatherers, old crafting materials are now worthless. Dear smaller guilds that save up for a few weeks then take a planet. You're screwed. Dear people who don't pvp, point and laugh. Dear people who have schedules that don't permit you to run as many ops/flashpoints, learn to pvp and flood the pvp with people who don't wanna be there and make it a bigger mess.

 

As a small guild that recently took a planet for the first time with a lot of participation from people who had saved up mats and had been watching large guilds win every week and saved up mats for a month with the goal of just taking a planet, at least make the GZ-4 usable on any planet you've taken in the past. At least that means I'll get to use again.

[Grayseven]

There are only 3 events that what you say pertains too, the rest the only crafting is invasion force and war supplies I believe?

 

So 25% of the Conquests. Still seems balanced to me.

 

Other Conquests are focused on other aspects of game play and those aspects should be the focus, not crafting.

[Kalfear]

Hey folks,

 

In Fallen Empire we will be making changes to Conquests so I wanted to let you know about what is being adjusted. One thing that we noticed in looking at Conquests is that not as many players as we would hope are completing their personal targets. We feel this may be because the targets are too high, requiring more time to complete than many players may have available. Because of this we are adjusting the target points for rewards in some Conquests:

• All Conquests which previously required 35,000 target points have had that target number reduced to 20,000.
  
• Titans of Industry will remain at 25,000 target points.
  
• Total Galactic War will remain at 50,000 target points.
  
• Trade Emporium will remain at 25,000 target points.
  

Note that Guilds will still compete, as normal, for the top 10 on each Planet once these targets have been reached.

 

In looking at our data and in seeing playing feedback, one thing we have noticed is that many Guilds are primarily using the repeatable Crafting objective to gain points for Conquests. Although we want to include Crafting as an essential part of the Conquest effort, we don’t want that objective to be the “only best answer” to Conquests. Due to this we are making the following changes:

• 
  
• The Objective “Conquest: War Supplies” is no longer repeatable and is set to reward 2,000 Conquest Points for any Conquest that included that objective.
  

These changes will be reflected in Knights of the Fallen Empire when it launches. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

And that just guarenteed biggest guild wins every week with out chance for change.

 

Looks like you will be losing my account in near future as no interest in joining yet another new guild just to win conquest.

 

Was in a medium sized guild who was able to compete with big boys because of crafting

 

What a shame but ahhh well, writing been on wall for a while

[Psychopyro]

So 25% of the Conquests. Still seems balanced to me.

 

Other Conquests are focused on other aspects of game play and those aspects should be the focus, not crafting.

 

OK, so 3 conquests, we'll leave WZ as repeatable all the others are only once per legacy. Oh and you can only win once per legacy during those for the extra 750. And weekly is only once per legacy as well (instead of repeatable). Then they'll be even....

[Grayseven]

OK, so 3 conquests, we'll leave WZ as repeatable all the others are only once per legacy. Oh and you can only win once per legacy during those for the extra 750. And weekly is only once per legacy as well (instead of repeatable). Then they'll be even....

 

Nope. You and others are under the mistaken impression that PvP is easy to reach goal, and it isn't.

 

First, you have to be ATK. People who have nothing else to do still have to queue and then have to win for max points. And you can only do that with one toon at a time.

 

I've reached Conquest thru just PvP before. The most toons I've been able to do this on was 3 in a given week. In the same week 15 other toons reached goal through crafting alone.

[well]

Nope. You and others are under the mistaken impression that PvP is easy to reach goal, and it isn't.

 

First, you have to be ATK. People who have nothing else to do still have to queue and then have to win for max points. And you can only do that with one toon at a time.

 

I've reached Conquest thru just PvP before. The most toons I've been able to do this on was 3 in a given week. In the same week 15 other toons reached goal through crafting alone.

 

That is for max. You still get points if you lose. Also you can knock out a weekly even if you lost all the games.Just takes more games. To get those 15 toons goal you needed mats. To get mats you either farm them, buy off GTN or missions. Or all three. Your mats just don't just appear in your storage. If you farm it takes in game time to do.

[Psychopyro]

Nope. You and others are under the mistaken impression that PvP is easy to reach goal, and it isn't.

 

First, you have to be ATK. People who have nothing else to do still have to queue and then have to win for max points. And you can only do that with one toon at a time.

 

I've reached Conquest thru just PvP before. The most toons I've been able to do this on was 3 in a given week. In the same week 15 other toons reached goal through crafting alone.

No, you are saying that killing all the crafting repeatable objectives evens it out, which it does not.

 

Also keep in mind you have to GATHER those mats, or get money to buy those mats. Which requires play time. Also you can still get WZ credit for 30s of worth. All that has to happen is a couple people leave on your team, which happens a lot. And you can still AFK WZs and GSF. You don't have to do anything, as has been pointed out that votekick is useless.

 

It's never going to be even. Conquest is a somewhat good idea with horrible implementation and even worse follow thru.

 

Right now the point of the matter is they are trying, again, to force people into PvP. It's BS. It does not help PvP, as has been proven in the past.

 

And also your point about not being able to do it on multiple character, with this crafting change, same thing except for 3 weeks. So your argument is moot anyways as you won't be able to craft AFK anymore. And each WS takes at least 45 minutes, you can get 3 PvP matches easily in 45 min...

[dscount]

LMFAO....

 

How long did it take to SEE this was the case? MAX Crafting que'd the day before for day one win... wow... you sure folks are looking at metrics?

 

I'm just glad I got my "Galaxy Conq" title before Rishi/Yavin got added cause a LOT of guilds got TIRED of the credit sink/mat sink and stopped chasing conquest goals.

 

I suspect this "Personal Conquest" is tied to the supposed new purple mat for crafting materials in 4.0 in some fashion and might become something people want/need to do again.

 

Sorry.. I hate PVP and don't really feel that I need to GRIND PVP just to clear my personal conquest on every toon.

[tmwfte]

I realised that this does something more insidious than just nerf craft wins. It also effectively removes a method for f2p and pref players to contribute to a guild's conquest without having to buy anything whatsoever. With weeks without PVE components like the heroics or flashpoints, it weighs it out of their possibility of completion already. With it weighted again further in the direction of PvP, if you want to do more than your regular allotment to reach personal conquest goal, you're going to have to pony up for passes.

 

I know that really doesn't matter to those of us who are subbed and don't think about weekly and daily limits to most things, but eliminating crafting as a viable conquest tool essentially will help cut off f2p and pref players from yet another aspect of the game.

 

Again, good job BioWare.

[harmonichonda]

Proposal for changes.

 

Like invasion forces, make first war supply = 3k + Stronghold bonus + planet bonus once per character, not once per legacy cuse thats just stupid, then only 500 each repeatable. This makes mid and small guilds able to coordinate and divy up mats to get some easy points to move into top 10.

 

Move invasion forces to 8 hours craft time for 6k+ Bonuses not repeatable.

 

Make invasion forces USABLE FOR SOMETHING other than dark projects that nobody needs now.

This would satisy medium and small guild methinks.

--

For larger guilds, have the pve and pvp objectives expand as goals are met. IE. there is a 250 npc kill for 1k points. To set that to grow to kill 500 for 2k points once the first tier of 250 npcs are killed. Grow that number up to 2k NPCs killed. Do the same for pvp, defeat weekly for once per character obviously, then have enemy kills, heal/dmg/objective numbers grow in tiers.

 

So for pvp it'd work like this: 100 kills, 1k points, 250 kills, 2500 more points, 500 kills 5k points

10 million dmg done, 1k points, 15 mil, 1500, 20 mil 2000 points.

Objectives tier up likewise.

 

Now youd be not only encouraging ppl to play pvp matches rewarding completions while finding cheeky ways to avoid vote kicks or AFKing out, but youd be giving reason and motivation for ppl including newcomers to be competitive and go for something other than a completion medal.

 

For PvE, add in tactical/solo/hm tiers as well.

 

The way I've always read the different events in conquest was to encourage variety, teamwork, and coordination. My guild may be new, but many are former military or mid 30s business and goal-oriented ppl with limited schedules. We compete quite well in conquest because of these traits. Providing a middle ground change to crafting such as listed above and the tiered conquest objectives will get ppl doing more and more often.

 

Cheers

[Psychopyro]

I know that really doesn't matter to those of us who are subbed and don't think about weekly and daily limits to most things, but eliminating crafting as a viable conquest tool essentially will help cut off f2p and pref players from yet another aspect of the game.

 

Again, good job BioWare.

 

This could play a part...

 

What aggravates me is they KNOW no matter what the change is, they are gonna piss people off. They KNOW that they are going to make people mad. Why not just come out and say, hey this is the real reason we changed something.

 

If it is because of F2P, who cares... They are not gonna be able to do anything FE without subbing anyways, so WGAF...

 

If it's to make people PvP... Say so and be done with it. It makes no difference. Either people are going to PvP to make it or not. The metrics won't change any damned way.

 

If it's because they really want to actually BALANCE it, then they need to say so and maybe actually TALK to the community to see how to do it.

 

Saying the lowering of points is because of people not hitting goal is BS and very transparent. Lowering the goal line while removing something as easy as crafting at the same times says as much. If they were really so damned worried about people hitting their goal, they would have made other stuff more attractive to do. Maybe people are just fed up with a broken system that only works for a few.

 

Now instead of the crafters, it will favor PvPers. What happens when the metrics say that more people now do not hit goal or people complain that now the PvPers have the advantage? Nerf the point barrier more? Nerf PvE gains to push more people to PvP? Nerf the PvP gains?

[TralyanSavo]

This is pretty disappointing. This is really the end of small guilds being able to compete in Conquest.

 

My guild is fairly small (we hover around 50 active accounts) and have little to no desire to get bigger. We've been playing together for 3 years and don't have any desire to join a big, drama laden guild. When Conquest came out, we busted our butts doing everything to try to compete but regularly fell short against the mega-huge guilds that blindly invite people, merged from several smaller guilds, or make recruitment a full time job.

 

To get around this, as a guild, we stockpile our crafting mats and wait for Global Galactic War to come out. Then we pick a planet with light competition and then we give it everything we have by throwing everything we have into crafting, doing the PvE, starfighter, and some PvP content to max out as many alts as we could. Its slow, but so far we've gotten four or five planets and we've had a maxed out guild ship for a long time now. It was a good long term strategy that worked for us.

 

Removing this means that there is now a complete barrier to entry for conquest content. I imagine small guilds like mine are just going to stop participating.

[Elderbert]

Of course they won't nerf pvp gains. It's always been all the pvp weeklies have been repeatable, and even if you go in on a level 12 toon and stumble around like an idiot you get as many points as if you craft something that took time to gather and/or money. Now how are small guilds that don't pvp supposed to get plans/rakata pieces to make dark projects? Just go kill commanders?

 

20 people make a guild. Spend 50 mil on a guild ship. Now they take away the easiest way for people who don't pvp to get pts. Why not put a cap on F2P stronghold/conquest earnings like you do money if that's your worry. We work hard to know that if we're doing an op we don't have to say "who is this guy" and get into a mess.

[SebastiaanZ]

Well I know of a certain guild on Tomb of Freedon Nadd who won't like the crafting changes LOL

[Elderbert]

actually...why not just make conquest passes. /shrug

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So, that leaves the third option. A bit unsavory, but as Bioware insists upon removing the viability of conquests for small guilds, the one that we are left with. We do take notice that such infiltration is a time-honored tradition in warfare and so we will adapt it to our own needs.

 

No problem with that, you do what you have to do for the reward and take it back to your own guild. The guild you were part of gets their kudos on the charts. Win/win for all.

 

My point remains that there shouldn't be a mathmatical system in place to put small guilds on par to large guilds in terms of conquest.

 

You speak of warfare so look at war itself, there are no "gimmes" in war if a larger nation declares war on a smaller nation. There are guerilla tactics like what you have in mind but that's also not you competing with the guild and just doing what you can to fund your own guild and ship.

 

Conquest to me is competition, competition between guilds, no guilds should get a leg up if part of that compeition is "how large you are".

 

It's inherently contradictory, and if the devs want to increase participation in conquests while simultaneously removing "the great equalizer" of crafting that allows small guilds a chance to compete, they will have to find some way to jettison the all-or-nothing nature of conquest that disincentivizes so many from participating.

 

Hint for Bioware: If your guild can't make the top 10, there's no point in participating.

 

Is UTTERLY contradictory and will ahve larger on going effects within the rest of the game that I've outlined.

 

I might hit conquest hard this week with my green jawa junk and save the war supps until they are rare for those repeatable invasion force weeks. I was making 40K a pop, I imagine I'll make double that once they become more rare for those weeks.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So 25% of the Conquests. Still seems balanced to me.

 

Other Conquests are focused on other aspects of game play and those aspects should be the focus, not crafting.

 

In regards to the conversation at hand they aren't balanced at all and it's closer to 20%. Being that I believe PVP is pretty much always repeatable along with GSF and the operations are still "bugged" with open lockouts for 1 boss kills ... how is that "balanced" exactly again?

 

I sort of don't care either way, this change will make me game richer. It is just a pretty poor thought out solution to the detriment of the health of the game and they could have done MUCH better to ACTUALLY "balance" conquest.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Nope. You and others are under the mistaken impression that PvP is easy to reach goal, and it isn't.

 

First, you have to be ATK. People who have nothing else to do still have to queue and then have to win for max points. And you can only do that with one toon at a time.

 

I've reached Conquest thru just PvP before. The most toons I've been able to do this on was 3 in a given week. In the same week 15 other toons reached goal through crafting alone.

 

And who is going to have more players ATK? A guild of 500 or a guild of 50? Who is going to generate more points just by playing the game?

Whilst again I don't think it should be balanced to neccessarily help small guilds at least crafting gave them a chance.

 

My issue with your argument is you actually think this is some sort of "balance", it isn't.

[Mowermanx]

They didn't think this through...

[Kalfear]

I realised that this does something more insidious than just nerf craft wins. It also effectively removes a method for f2p and pref players to contribute to a guild's conquest without having to buy anything whatsoever.

 

Good point, hadnt thought of that

 

It does kinda force those players to buy accesses and or sub.

 

Problem is I'm not a F2P.

I have multiple valor 80 characters and find the PVP beyond boring

I have no interest in running progression ops having done that for many decades now in MMORPGs

And the flashpoints require PUGs which have been lowered so drastically in quality because of 12x XP that I only run a few now with guildies (no pug groups)

 

Conquest was my passion and I worked dang hard to set up my account to do conquest

 

And that all has been wiped away because someone whined like a little girl

I never once cheated/exploited

I would spend upwards of 30 hours a week gathering mats, running missions, setting up crafting queues

 

And all that now out the window unless I drop my current guild to join some over sized guild with no chemistry what so ever.

 

I have stuck up for EA on this topic till blue in face that crafting ALLOWED small guilds to compete, not hurt them.

Hell one guy even one a planet in a guild where he and his alts are the only members.

 

Thats all gone now.

Small or medium guilds will no longer be able to compete

Top 10 will be PVP guilds every week

 

They may have put changes in to try and get F2P to pay something (never happen) and all they successed in doing is losing more Subscribers.

 

Because if 4.0 doesnt know the ball completely out f the park now (and lets be honest, we all know 4.0 will underdeliver as per normal because thats what EA does with this game. Rishi and Yavin were crap and Ziost is unplayable ist so poorly designed)

 

I know my account finished and I know Im far from only one that feels that way.

 

This change completely removes a portion of the game from crafters who are now back to having nothing at all to do with crafting skills

Edited September 9, 2015 by Kalfear

[ShawDou]

Small or medium guilds will no longer be able to compete

Top 10 will be PVP guilds every week

 

This exactly is my thinking right now. I agree that crafting was OP for conquest but without it PvE players cant compete to PvP players, because they simply dont have any infinitively repeatable objectives. All PvE objectives are daily limited.

Edited September 9, 2015 by ShawDou