Ilum takes bad design to new level, it's clear Bioware didn't learn from Warhammer.

[Wiggletphyre]

Let me explain the zone first.

 

There are 5 objectives. Each faction can cap and control each objective at any time, they aren't linked in anyway. When you cap an objective, you get a stacking buff (up to 5 stacks) that increases the valor gain in warzones (up to 200 with max stacks.) This buff lasts 30 mins. Also, there is daily for taking control of 5 objectives. That is the only way to complete it.

 

So, in short, to get the buff and complete the daily, you have to let the enemy succeed in capping the points. There is no reason to pvp at all in the zone. You get no valor or no commendations for pvping. You actually hurt yourself by stopping them from capping points.

 

Who designed this? Who thought this was a good idea? Did you not pay attention Warhammer at all?

 

Mutually assured progress is a terrible, terrible design and gameplay concept. It's like you guys designed this zone to only look good in promo video. If this is the future of the world pvp in the game, you will be losing subs left and right.

 

I shouldn't have the opposing faction getting on level 1 alts and asking me to flip the nodes so they can complete their daily.

 

I hope that what you mean is that they should have teken idea's from warhammer. Because if your saying that the PvP in that game was bad your destroying your own credibility since the PvP was the only reason people kept playing that despite the lag, bugs and other stuff...

 

Btw you do realise that it is the players that make the PvP good, the game should only provide them with some tools

Edited December 26, 2011 by Wiggletphyre

[Elboc]

o man... how many times was this brought up in beta

 

its sad really.... reallllllly sad

 

Yep I can't believe it made it through beta like this. I sure hope they updates it.

[ReRuined]

I hope that what you mean is that they should have teken idea's from warhammer. Because if your saying that the PvP in that game was bad your destroying your own credibility since the PvP was the only reason people kept playing that despite the lag, bugs and other stuff...

 

Btw you do realise that it is the players that make the PvP good, the game should only provide them with some tools

 

Yes, trading keeps for the buffs is a great idea. Also, the class balance was wonderful.

/sarcasm

 

I had a small army follow me as I was capping points while solo. They didn't try to stop me once. Why? Because they couldn't proceed on their daily if they stopped me.

 

Mutually Assured Progress is not a valid PvP design. It hinders pvp and rewards not pvping.

Edited December 26, 2011 by ReRuined

[JSykes]

Unfortunately, bad game devs tend to be bad in other games/companies. This seems to be yet another example of it.

 

Yep. If I ever hit the lottery and can go through with my idea of developing a MMO (basically won't ever happen), when hiring people, the first thing I would want is every name they've been known by on the games they developed, then if I see posts like this... no job. These people like go round robin to all the new MMOs, give us the same, boring **** made worse then manage to get a new job offer 2 years later with the next MMO and kill that. Maybe one day a company will learn to give something they want, and not what they think we want. Ilum has been and always will be a disappointment unless they undertake a serious redesign. But they'll never do that, as it means admitting they're wrong.

[ReRuined]

The saddest part is once you capture your objectives the reward requires you to.... LEAVE THE FREAKIN ZONE....!! rofl

 

Yeah, seems like another bad decision. I swear Ilum was designed only to look good in promo videos. Look at the 3 mid points. It's like they are movie props. They don't actually do anything but walk in place. It's hilarious seeing their legs move, but no go anywhere.

Edited December 26, 2011 by ReRuined

[Maduece]

Gabe was on the Warhammer team, you expected anything different?

 

To maybe learn not to do, or model the same things from that bag of crap they called WH perhaps. WH is immediately present when you create a character and move into the very first zone. Same clustery, twitching, ugly looking, npc's you can basically bulldoze through.

 

I think many people are being very biased and viewing this game off their personal sw nastalgia instead of what is in front of them. Cinematics top notch, no doubt. Please tell me what is so amazing about the open zones. The open zones are copy/paste model jobs, thats it. Sorry if I'm not WOO WOO about that. Its ugly, fact.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Maduece

[DarthDolemite]

Hey atleast we have space combat everyone!

 

Traveling through space is an exciting part of the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ experience. Not only will you navigate the stars to visit new planets, but you can also choose to undertake critical missions in the depths of space where you'll maneuver through chaotic asteroid fields, blast enemy fighters, and engage in epic, large-scale fleet battles reminiscent of those from the classic Star Wars™ films.

 

In keeping with the original Star Wars films, the Space Combat system in Star Wars: The Old Republic is designed to make travel times literally fly-by, while combat runs and space battles put you in the pilot's seat for a fast-paced and highly cinematic experience. Like Luke Skywalker in the original assault on the Death Star, you'll also discover that even a lone starship can change the course of galactic history.

[PowerTake]

The only thing in my opinion that is a fail in the world. ****** world pvp will lose a lot of subs. Lets hope they fix it before i hit 50.

[scrynen]

Hey atleast we have space combat everyone!

 

Traveling through space is an exciting part of the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ experience. Not only will you navigate the stars to visit new planets, but you can also choose to undertake critical missions in the depths of space where you'll maneuver through chaotic asteroid fields, blast enemy fighters, and engage in epic, large-scale fleet battles reminiscent of those from the classic Star Wars™ films.

 

In keeping with the original Star Wars films, the Space Combat system in Star Wars: The Old Republic is designed to make travel times literally fly-by, while combat runs and space battles put you in the pilot's seat for a fast-paced and highly cinematic experience. Like Luke Skywalker in the original assault on the Death Star, you'll also discover that even a lone starship can change the course of galactic history.

 

Holy crap that sounds so cool, I can't wait for Swtor to come out. So when are they lifting this NDA?

[THECLONED]

Crap i feel really bad hearing about this poor zone design .

 

Can they make it more funny ? will they change it i hope so . If not this game gonna loose so many pvp minded players .

[ReRuined]

Hey atleast we have space combat everyone!

 

Traveling through space is an exciting part of the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ experience. Not only will you navigate the stars to visit new planets, but you can also choose to undertake critical missions in the depths of space where you'll maneuver through chaotic asteroid fields, blast enemy fighters, and engage in epic, large-scale fleet battles reminiscent of those from the classic Star Wars™ films.

 

In keeping with the original Star Wars films, the Space Combat system in Star Wars: The Old Republic is designed to make travel times literally fly-by, while combat runs and space battles put you in the pilot's seat for a fast-paced and highly cinematic experience. Like Luke Skywalker in the original assault on the Death Star, you'll also discover that even a lone starship can change the course of galactic history.

 

Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

[Nightrode]

No doubt it can change. My worry is the mindset behind the current implementation. This very same design has failed in several other MMO's. Just thinking about it for longer 20 secs, you would realize that it is a bad idea. Yet somehow, it got past the concept phase and is actually implemented into the game.

 

Who knows. I really think they had to scrap some ideas and fix it later in the game in order to meet their release date.

[Wiggletphyre]

Yes, trading keeps for the buffs is a great idea. Also, the class balance was wonderful.

/sarcasm

 

I had a small army follow me as I was capping points while solo. They didn't try to stop me once. Why? Because they couldn't proceed on their daily if they stopped me.

 

Mutually Assured Progress is not a valid PvP design. It hinders pvp and rewards not pvping.

 

If I provide a soccer ball and a soccer field does this automaticly leed to people starting to play soccer? No it doesn't. People will start playing soccer when they feel like it.

 

Now I can offer a reward for people that come to play soccer, but that means they will only show up when they get a reward.

 

The point I'm making is that Game developers can't force people to PvP, it has to come from the players self. And you say that you had a small army following your around? Well attack them? Or isn't it fun when your the one being outnumbered?

[Nephrahim]

My entirely unfounded susspicons is they choose this because they didn't want it to be too unbalanced due to the empire v Republic ratio. This way the republic can win, even if it makes it count less.

 

It's the big problem in open world PvP. Finding a way to design around faction balancing. We'll see if they figure out a better way to do it.

[silkforcalde]

Reminds me of the control points in Hellfire Penn. in wow's TBC. You had to cap each point so it got to the point where nobody was killing each other and just letting both sides cap it back and forth.

 

Plus side, at least they didn't learn from Tol Barad. That is the epitome of pvp failure.

 

TB is some of the most fun PVP in any MMO ever. What was your problem with it? Sure, on launch it was way too easy to defend but they patched that within a couple of weeks and it's been absolutely perfectly balanced and amazingly fun ever since.

 

I would say the only problem with TB is that it's a 40 vs 40 battleground so it's very difficult to get in since it only runs ever 2 or 3 hours and the rewards are so awesome that everyone wants in.

[Mazing]

Illum is a complete failure. No Comendation reward for killing players.

 

On my sever everyone lets the enemy team cap in order to finish the daily.

 

Once the daily is complete everyone leaves leaving the zone completely empty

[ReRuined]

If I provide a soccer ball and a soccer field does this automaticly leed to people starting to play soccer? No it doesn't. People will start playing soccer when they feel like it.

 

Now I can offer a reward for people that come to play soccer, but that means they will only show up when they get a reward.

 

The point I'm making is that Game developers can't force people to PvP, it has to come from the players self. And you say that you had a small army following your around? Well attack them? Or isn't it fun when your the one being outnumbered?

 

Yes, attacking 2 full groups solo is real fun. The game developers are responsible for creating an environment that promotes PvP, not passivity.

 

Also, going with your soccer analogy, you fail to consider that you are rewarding people to not play soccer. If someone payed me to not play soccer, I'm not playing soccer.

 

Even if I did charge into those 2 groups solo (which you wouldn't do yourself, don't say otherwise,) it wouldn't change the fact the others won't.

 

Why? Because the design rewards not PvPing.

Edited December 27, 2011 by ReRuined

[ReRuined]

Illum is a complete failure. No Comendation reward for killing players.

 

On my sever everyone lets the enemy team cap in order to finish the daily.

 

Once the daily is complete everyone leaves leaving the zone completely empty

 

Unfortantely, to turn in the daily, you need to leave to zone. And once the daily is finished, there is no reason to go back. Want to pvp? Just jump in a warzone queue. Why bother going back to Ilum?

[Sanicek]

Ilum is indeed an epic failure. Today we somehow gathered at 1 node and it was /hi, /wave and then imps stood at our vehicles, 3 of us at their vehicles and we just kept exchanging the control of that objective back and forth, then everyone went their way.

Biggest irony is that the only place in the game, that rewards world pvp, the best way to approach it is to NOT kill the opposing faction, since killing would be counterproductive.

[Thamelas]

If this is how Ilum is, it is unforgivable. Stuff like this is why a lot of MMO's fail. Companies rehire the same people because they have "experience" on a resume, but won't hire gamers with decades of MMO playing experience to design games. Its utterly moronic on the part of the companies, then they sit back and wonder why a game failed.

 

Hey Bioware...I am 2 classes short of finishing my MBA. I need a job, and I've been playing MMO's since Ultima Online in 1997. I'm well educated, a life-long gamer, and I have a deep understanding of game systems. Give me a chance?

Edited December 27, 2011 by Thamelas

[Merex]

Bioware using any designers from Mythic killed any hopes for decent pvp design in this game.

[Mazing]

Unfortantely, to turn in the daily, you need to leave to zone. And once the daily is finished, there is no reason to go back. Want to pvp? Just jump in a warzone queue. Why bother going back to Ilum?

 

My point exactly.... Illum should be a zone that is extremely active in PvP. Not a sad boring zone where you beg for a fight and if u find one you dont even get rewarded commendations

[ReRuined]

Bioware using any designers from Mythic killed any hopes for decent pvp design in this game.

 

Anyone using any developers from Warhammer kills any game. Look at what happened to Rift.

[Degarmo]

Sounds like they need to add progressive rewards for taking and controlling/defending points, add commendations to kills there, remove the daily mission completely, and add faction-wide buffs for maintaining each control.

 

That'd be a nice start anyway.

[Nemmar]

Let me explain the zone first.

 

There are 5 objectives. Each faction can cap and control each objective at any time, they aren't linked in anyway. When you cap an objective, you get a stacking buff (up to 5 stacks) that increases the valor gain in warzones (up to 200 with max stacks.) This buff lasts 30 mins. Also, there is daily for taking control of 5 objectives. That is the only way to complete it.

 

So, in short, to get the buff and complete the daily, you have to let the enemy succeed in capping the points. There is no reason to pvp at all in the zone. You get no valor or no commendations for pvping. You actually hurt yourself by stopping them from capping points.

 

Who designed this? Who thought this was a good idea? Did you not pay attention Warhammer at all?

 

Mutually assured progress is a terrible, terrible design and gameplay concept. It's like you guys designed this zone to only look good in promo video. If this is the future of the world pvp in the game, you will be losing subs left and right.

 

I shouldn't have the opposing faction getting on level 1 alts and asking me to flip the nodes so they can complete their daily.

 

Your degree on game design? Dont have it? Awww...

 

The concept doesnt work when the area has low population, but an end-game hub that is gonna be high on pop in a few weeks sure has potencial for some good skirmishes. Stop thinking you know better than people who have studied game design. You don't.