Interesting article by a game dev about why they can't be more open to players

[JonHawke]

Mike Laidlaw, the creative director for Bioware's Dragon Age series, posted a link in his twitter to an interesting article. The article talks about why game devs can't be more forthcoming and talk about games that they are creating or updates to games.

 

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw 7h7 hours ago If you ever wonder why I'm so often cagey with answers, this covers the many possible reasons:

 

http://askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/126941182591/do-you-ever-feel-like-the-industry-is-too …

 

Ben Kuchara at Polygon made a mistake and made his own article claiming that Mike Laidlaw wrote this article and haters began giving Mr. Laidlaw flack. Mr. Kuchara has since made a retraction and apologized for the mistake.

 

Still, it is an interesting article. I thought that maybe with all the threads complaining about Bioware not telling us more information about the coming expansion it is somewhat relevant to SWTOR. In the comments section of the article a few other game devs have also chimed in on the discussion.

Edited August 18, 2015 by JonHawke

[Zharik]

Honestly the people who post the doom and gloom stuff here should just take a chill pill and...

 

wait patiently.

 

I know if I asked for the moon too I might actually get the moon...

 

[blindxsecrets]

Interesting read, thank you for posting. All of the points made seem valid, logical and reasonable. But that doesn't mean I'll ever stop hoping for even a little tid-bit of information, especially when so much is leaking right now and we're not even sure if it's going to be in the actual release or not. So many people making mountains out of molehills and....such a mess. While I understand their silence, speaking out...even just a little bit...to try and clear up some concerns would probably go a long way to stopping at least *some* of the hysteria. Though knowing most gaming communities....you stop one rumor and another one starts. So who knows.

 

But still, Mike Laidlaw has plenty of valid points. Hm.

Edited August 18, 2015 by blindxsecrets

[Andrellma]

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

 

So true. But here's the problem.

 

With their near complete silence, our first impressions have been taken out of their hands. Our first impressions are now shaped by the miners, and BioWare has virtually no say in how we interpret the incomplete information the miners give us, since they're not giving us anything to put the miner information into context.

[Warrgames]

So how can games like Marvels Heroes talk about ideas that are in planning stage; things that they don't know if they can get to work the way they want? Their dev were talking about a gear/skill check for a end game. The only thing that limits what they can share is license agreement with Marvel.

 

Their Dev team post more by lunch than BW dev team post all week. I've had more question I've asked answered by their dev team in 6 months than I have had here since early access. When dev team is part of the community instead of that estranged uncle that only shows up once in a blue moon; they can fail to deliver on an idea because players feel that they actually care about the game.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Warrgames

[Savej]

Honestly the people who post the doom and gloom stuff here should just take a chill pill and...

 

wait patiently.

 

I know if I asked for the moon too I might actually get the moon...

 

One problem is that we've had reps/devs assure us (without being asked) that far more info would be in our hands by now. Another problem is that the info we have gotten has been about things that we normally get in xpacs not being a part of this xpac (ops, fps, wzs, etc). And the other info we do have is very sketchy and points to things we are about to lose (companions, crafting shakeups, stat diversity loss, etc). And finally we have companies like Blizzard/Activision that have presented actual future xpac info with an order of magnitude more meat to it. People like you pointing out you don't care about being misled or given no info and that anyone not like you won't be happy with anything less than world peace are just a little full of yourselves and aren't helping anyone.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Savej

[Andryah]

So how can games like Marvels Heroes talk about ideas that are in planning stage; things that they don't know if they can get to work the way they want? Their dev were talking about a gear/skill check for a end game. The only thing that limits what they can share is license agreement with Marvel.

 

Their Dev team post more by lunch than BW dev team post all week. I've had more question I've asked answered by their dev team in 6 months than I have had here since early access.

 

Then play Marvels Heroes and drop SWTOR like a rock if it's so important to you.

 

Otherwise.. stop pitting one MMOs company against another about how they do or don't communicate.

[Andryah]

One problem is that we've had reps/devs assure us (without being asked) that far more info would be in our hands by now.

 

In the real world.. plans change and things get delayed. /shrug.

 

Pragmatism: they will tell us when they are ready, not when we are ready. Sucks, but that is the way the real world works.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Andryah

[Warrgames]

Then play Marvels Heroes and drop SWTOR like a rock if it's so important to you.

 

Otherwise.. stop pitting one MMOs company against another about how they do or don't communicate.

 

I do play MH and I have fun playing it. I also play Skyforge and SWTOR and have fun playing both those games too. Each one of those games offers something I enjoy and have things I dislike. You can go to MH forums and see how I talk about how amazing BW is with its story. One amazing thing about the community over there is... You don't get ahole replies like yours.

 

I'm pointing out what one gaming company does better than another its not pitting one against another.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Warrgames

[Savej]

In the real world.. plans change and things get delayed. /shrug.

 

Pragmatism: they will tell us when they are ready, not when we are ready. Sucks, but that is the way the real world works.

 

And in the real world responsible people SAY there was a delay. Or at least those that respect the people they were talking to do that. If this wasn't becoming a pattern I would be much less critical.

[Rhyltran]

So how can games like Marvels Heroes talk about ideas that are in planning stage; things that they don't know if they can get to work the way they want? Their dev were talking about a gear/skill check for a end game. The only thing that limits what they can share is license agreement with Marvel.

 

Their Dev team post more by lunch than BW dev team post all week. I've had more question I've asked answered by their dev team in 6 months than I have had here since early access. When dev team is part of the community instead of that estranged uncle that only shows up once in a blue moon; they can fail to deliver on an idea because players feel that they actually care about the game.

 

Marvel heroes doesn't have even 15% of the player base SWTOR has. In other words they communicate so much because the game isn't doing very well at all. The worst a game is or the smaller the population the more the devs provide information.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Zharik]

One problem is that we've had reps/devs assure us (without being asked) that far more info would be in our hands by now. Another problem is that the info we have gotten has been about things that we normally get in xpacs not being a part of this xpac (ops, fps, wzs, etc). And the other info we do have is very sketchy and points to things we are about to lose (companions, crafting shakeups, stat diversity loss, etc). And finally we have companies like Blizzard/Activision that have presented actual future xpac info with an order of magnitude more meat to it. People like you pointing out you don't care about being misled or given no info and that anyone not like you won't be happy with anything less than world peace are just a little full of yourselves and aren't helping anyone.

 

I never said I felt like I was being misled. Maybe I am just a bit more patient than your average gamer, but I can wait till they are *done* making the expansion before I jump down their throats. If you think communication about what may or may not come with the expansion will change anything for you when it happens, you're mistaken. Knowing the companion system is changing is just causing you to stress out, but it isn't changing what they're doing. It's like asking god to let you know which of your real life relatives is going to die next so you can spend more time with them (or at least stop giving them gifts to raise their affection?) etc. - but in a game where you already have done all the conversations and such... there really is no benefit to knowing the future. Really are you going to run more flashpoints, heroics or whatever with your favorite companion if they are definitely going away in October?

 

It's a MMORPG - they change over time. It is the nature of the genre. Sometimes they screw things up royally (I'm sure we all can think of examples) and sometimes you think to yourself "Why didn't they do this for release?" The rest of the time they are just adding content to keep us as customers.

 

That's what they are doing this cycle. They know how the average *paying* customer spends their time, so they are catering to the majority since that is how they make their money. Since they are a business, making money is the goal. They are not here to do anything but turn a profit. It just so happens that you may (or may not) like the product that they produce.

 

Now to come back to your world peace comment; most people on the internet only talk about negative stuff. I know that is normal human nature but that *has* to be a real drag on Mr Musco's desire to communicate "more" with the forum users. Let's face it, he could post exactly what you (the individual) wants, but there would still be a bunch of complainers. Forum users are loud complainers as a group, I mean you're not here to make real life friends you're here to try and modify this game the way you'd like to see it turn out. Mr Musco is definitely in a situation of damned if you do and damned if you don't and I would be completely shocked to hear (from a reliable source) that he doesn't have a *bunch* of restrictions (from BW or Disney) in what he specifically can and cannot say.

 

I don't know how else to say it other than to quote Yoda, "I cannot teach him, he has no patience..."

 

That also works for a TL;DR.

[Rafaman]

I would like to have a reasonable discussion about this and I think the article started us down that road. But, I'm jaded when it comes to us gamers and I think what we will soon see, yet again, is the irrational hyperbole of armchair devs reply to this thread.

[Senrie]

Marvel heroes doesn't have even 15% of the player base SWTOR has. In other words they communicate so much because the game isn't doing very well at all. The worst a game is or the smaller the population the more the devs provide information.

 

What's your explanation for WoW having far more communication than TOR then?

Edited August 19, 2015 by Senrie

[MandFlurry]

Then play Marvels Heroes and drop SWTOR like a rock if it's so important to you.

 

Otherwise.. stop pitting one MMOs company against another about how they do or don't communicate.

 

Why don't you play Rock, paper and scissors. Seriously, little kids like you don't have any right to tell us where to play, especially since most likely ppl have Invested so Much time and Effort into what was a Great MMO with so much Possiblilities, that are Mot Likely gone forever. I hope Not though. But Fact is for ppl like me it's quite the opposite in How we know how Development can be in games, and it's pure Hell, that I Do know, But Fact is also that the devs do Not want to tell about more things because of the Facts that KOTFE is almost a Totally different game that diverges from what a Real MMO is, to what this game will be more than less, of a Single player game, with a Lot of the Original SWTOR 1s greatness will be Fully Phased out.

 

It's Not an Opinion, it's a Fact that the Devs themselves have said about such Huge changes.

 

As for the for the Developer being stupid enough to think that ppl don't care to know how, or a way for Maybe this game to have better Fps performance. I'd sure as hell as would like to know more about the Development Process, though I already know a lot as it is.

[ivanhedgehog]

In the real world.. plans change and things get delayed. /shrug.

 

Pragmatism: they will tell us when they are ready, not when we are ready. Sucks, but that is the way the real world works.

 

and posting "our info release at gamescon was delayed due to unavoidable reasons. we will get back with you next week to reschedule a livestream" is some kind of spoiler or really that hard to do? common courtesy seems to elude BW and you both.

[Jerba]

I already saw it earlier and I feel the article assumes one thing for granted that isn't: That the majority of the fanbase consists of casual players who are not interested in hearing minor details and will misinterpret everything they say.

Suffice to say, with SWTOR's marketing strategy, they draw in all those casual players who see SWTOR as nothing more than a game to play in the evening and drop when they get bored. And I'm assuming that the marketing strategy was decided by EA or Disney to make Star Wars more "mass market friendly" so we can't even blame BioWare for it.

Of course, this leads to the situation where veteran players feel left out.

 

To be honest, I find it insulting when he says no player cares about the animation pipeline. Being a developer myself, I understood every single word in that paragraph, yet the author thinks gamers won't understand that. Yes, there are armchair developers who don't know about coding but there are also players who know about development, be it for games or otherwise. Just because only a few dozen players will read what you write doesn't mean it is pointless to post about it. I'd rather have a Blizzard's Dev Tracker with multiple posts each day than the handful of yellow posts each week in SWTOR. Even players who don't read the dev tracker will get the impression that the devs are actively working on the game.

 

I recently read the Wikipedia article that deals with this topic and it had an interesting quote:

Fans, furthermore, are atypical. They are not representative, not even remotely. Their enthusiastically put views are hopelessly distorted, albeit hopelessly distorted in a direction marketers find congenial. Isn’t it great to gather eager followers? The answer, in a nutshell, is NO. (source)

And even though I want to hear more information about KotFE, I can understand how their lack of information makes sense from a marketing standpoint.

Of course, there's also the possibility that the reason why they stay quiet is that they don't want to build too much hype because the expansion is not as big as players expect, and from everything that I've seen so far, this is a very likely possibility.

 

In any case, the more curious players have the possibility to quelch their thirst for new information from dataminers and the casual players can just wait and see what will happen. So I don't mind the marketing strategy too much, and when the developers at the cantina tour tell me word for word "No, we won't do a blog post on this but just read what XXX has to say" (obviously, I cannot mention the name here), then I have no qualms to read datamined information.

 

Looking into the future, I am a little afraid for SWTOR. When you look at the comments on Facebook you can find exactly the type of playerbase that marketing wants to attract: https://www.facebook.com/starwarstheoldrepublic

People who don't have much clue about SWTOR, people who don't feel strongly about SWTOR, people who complain about things because they don't understand them.

I'd rather support a game like WoW where the developers do support all player types more equally but for now I am content with SWTOR; having invested a lot of time, effort and money into a character is a strong deterrent from quitting the game.

As long as there are players in my guild and raid group who I can freely talk with, knowing they understand when I say "I was just killing the elite X on the planet Y" or ask "have you already done the achievement X", I am happy, and they don't plan on quitting either. I'm also hoping that there will still be new players who are willing to learn something, like how the item modifications work or why rolling need is wrong, and who don't immediately put me on ignore for being a know-it-all, so there will be a new generation of players who become experts at the game. It's hard to go against SWTOR's marketing strategy but there must be some players left who see it as more than just a casual game, namely as an MMO.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Jerba

[NCVens]

I would like to have a reasonable discussion about this and I think the article started us down that road. But, I'm jaded when it comes to us gamers and I think what we will soon see, yet again, is the irrational hyperbole of armchair devs reply to this thread.

 

I love it how the 2 posts right after yours completely proved your point.

 

I liked reading the article. But i think that most people who can think a little logical would have considered all those points already.

There are always fair complaints, and it's always good to be critical. But the points this article makes are fair.

I do agree that it wasn't the ideal move to make a few promises about more info being given at certain points (soon was said mostly, no exact dates given). But i can totally understand.

Also, i actually enjoy being left in the dark and begin a real new adventure and learn new things within the game. I don't want to know everything i have to do and how everything works right from the start already.

I wish i could forget all my knowledge of this game and start all over learning my first lightsaber moves, making the same mistakes and having the wonder of first arriving on coruscant again.

 

But then again, i am easily satisfied i guess, and some people are just never satisfied

[MandFlurry]

Marvel heroes doesn't have even 15% of the player base SWTOR has. In other words they communicate so much because the game isn't doing very well at all. The worst a game is or the smaller the population the more the devs provide information.

 

A flagrant lie to the least. The game "MH" actually is doing pretty well, but isn't really near as much of an MMO as this game Used to be. A lot of ppl in General Chat in-game and talking to ppl that play other MMO's and the Guild i belong to. a Lot of ppl have at Sporatic times left this game, while being subbed to this one, and play Marvel Heroes.

 

What they do is of course still Sub to this game or another MMO while playing Marvel Heroes to get away from doing the same stuff in this Game or whatever else game ppl are sick of the same ol' same ol'.

 

The biggest Reason why the Devs and Marketing Don't tell ppl everything is the Fact that they don't want ppl to hate what they want to Implement, whether it be good or bad. Then again if the Devs Really did know their Playerbase, then they shouldn't have too much to worry about what New things are being/ will be Implemented.................. /Take a breath.

 

Marvel Heroes is doing good because They Do seem to care More about their Subscribers.

 

Saying what you and others that have said almost the same thing, Makes this Games Devs Look much much More terrible. But this time it's the Subscribers Fault that Make up excuses, that are Not always excusable. Like a Lot of what is being done to this game.

[Rafaman]

I love it how the 2 posts right after yours completely proved your point.

 

I liked reading the article. But i think that most people who can think a little logical would have considered all those points already.

There are always fair complaints, and it's always good to be critical. But the points this article makes are fair.

I do agree that it wasn't the ideal move to make a few promises about more info being given at certain points (soon was said mostly, no exact dates given). But i can totally understand.

Also, i actually enjoy being left in the dark and begin a real new adventure and learn new things within the game. I don't want to know everything i have to do and how everything works right from the start already.

I wish i could forget all my knowledge of this game and start all over learning my first lightsaber moves, making the same mistakes and having the wonder of first arriving on coruscant again.

 

But then again, i am easily satisfied i guess, and some people are just never satisfied

 

QFT. You are way too reasonable to be here. lol

[Senrie]

I love it how the 2 posts right after yours completely proved your point.

 

 

I hope you skipped over my post when saying this.

[JDiablos]

What's your explanation for WoW having far more communication than TOR then?

 

I've played WoW for going on seven years now and my explanation is that they don't.

 

Which is my opinion, others opinion is obviously that WoW does have more communication. Without any kind of quantification I'm not sure we can objectively say one way or another which is fact.

 

The current cool thing to say is that we know more about WoW's expansion in 10 months than we do about KotFE. Which is absolutely not true, and I could and will bulletpoint my evidence if asked (if I'm not busy eating a sandwich...which I probably will be).

 

If we're talking about old WoW then yes, 5 years ago you could submit an in game ticket and a real live person would respond to you within the hour. Not anymore. Back in the old days Ghostcrawler would post these massive rambling thoughts on the game and the players. In fact Ghostcrawler was probably the most actively engaging MMO dev in the history of AAA MMO's. Also pretty much universally reviled so take that as you will. By the way all that about talking to their customers. Not anymore. Even their community managers probably don't do as much as Musco, if we're taking into account how much larger their community is (kind of a post per subscriber basis).

 

BTW since you'll probably ask here's a breakdown of what we know about WoW vs. KotFE

 

WoW - New class - We know DPS/tank specs exist but nothing about those specs.

KotFE - We know there is no new class

 

Draw.

 

WoW - Heroic weapons that will level with you and what they're called.

KotFE - No heroic weapons

 

Draw.

 

WoW - New map overview with names of the continent but no real details.

KotFE - No map but mention of name of the new Empire.

 

Advantage WoW but not sure anyone really cares.

 

WoW - Cast of heroes and villians with some pictures and descriptions

KotFE - Cast of heroes and villians with some pictures and descriptions

 

Draw, but in fairness WoW is just recycling old heroes and villians, so I personally feel like KotFE has the advantage here. Plus it's OOE babay!!! (OOE is of course Outlander Over Everything!)

 

A lot of the rest of the knowledge we have about WoW's story essentially comes from the fact that it's a completely recycled story based on lore that's been around forever and has in fact been used (in this very game) before.

 

Also both games have trailers and screenshots. WOOOO!

 

but draw.

 

And then this list here of super vague things.

 

Class-specific Order Halls and followers - Companion system perhaps similar, advantage KotFE because know more about the followers (specifically Lana as a companion)

 

All New Dungeons and Raids - we know KotFE has upscaled dungeons and raids and what they're names are and even the bosses within them, Advantage KotFE

 

New World Bosses - not sure about KotFE, Advantage WoW

 

Level cap raised to 110 - KotFE is also raising level cap to 65, draw

 

Revamped PvP progression system - Nothing new for PvP progression from KotFE, draw

 

Improved transmogrification system - Improvements have already happened in KotFE and we know cartel shop updates will continue, advantage KotFE (based on more substantive and less nebulous information).

 

Improved social features - KotFE more focus on solo play, draw.

 

Character Boost—immediately raise one character to level 100 - KotFE immediately raise one character to 60, also know that future level boosts will be available from cartel shop, advantage KotFE for the future cartel shop knowledge.

 

Now some stuff we know about KotFE

 

KotFE -Release date October 27th

WoW - no knowledge of specific release date.

 

Advantage KotFE

 

KotFE - Expansion cost, subscription

WoW - No knowledge of costs related to expansion

 

Advantage KotFE

 

KotFE - Pre-launch subscriber rewards program

WoW - no knowledge of pre-launch rewards

 

Advantage KotFE

 

KotFE - Third party reviews of in game play and a released directly from game scene

WoW - uh, none of that.

 

Advantage KotFE

 

And then there's a list of super vague things

 

Choices that matter - We know that WoW won't have choices that matter, draw

 

Companion loyalty program - WoW won't have, draw

 

Companions react to character choices that matter - WoW won't have, draw

 

Companions will know about your cheating ways - WoW character are asexual (except in the Shire baby), draw

 

Chapter Schedule - I don't even know, but probably draw

 

New Chapters in the future - Again counting against WoW here would be unfair so, draw

 

Center of a personalized story - Thrall will be the center of wow's story, draw

 

Revamp of 1-50 leveling process - No knowledge of leveling revamp, advantage KotFE

 

I have KotFE at a +6 advantage.

 

But it's all just fuzzy math basically, and I'm sure someone could post their own ramblings to refute this. What I'm saying is comparing WoW and KotFE is stupid. And spending 20 minutes doing just that has been a waste of my life. Also just a random point, I think people equate not being happy with the new KotFE expansion with not knowing about it, which is an error. Now about that sandwich.

Edited August 19, 2015 by JDiablos

[Max_Killjoy]

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

 

So true. But here's the problem.

 

With their near complete silence, our first impressions have been taken out of their hands. Our first impressions are now shaped by the miners, and BioWare has virtually no say in how we interpret the incomplete information the miners give us, since they're not giving us anything to put the miner information into context.

 

Exactly.

 

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

 

By choosing to focus on hollow hype, Bioware STILL made a first impression.

[Senrie]

I've played WoW for going on seven years now and my explanation is that they don't.

 

 

BTW since you'll probably ask here's a breakdown of what we know about WoW vs. KotFE

 

Yes, thank you. I won't respond directly to each one because either you're right about it or you're so wrong that it's not worth unraveling.

 

WoW - Heroic weapons that will level with you and what they're called.

KotFE - No heroic weapons

 

Draw.

 

No, not draw. It's a new feature and it's been pretty detailed. Advantage WoW.

 

WoW - New map overview with names of the continent but no real details.

KotFE - No map but mention of name of the new Empire.

 

Advantage WoW but not sure anyone really cares.

 

Actually, they showed screenshots of all the new zones and gave an overview of the lore for each one, including the NPCs and enemies that will be in them.

 

WoW - Cast of heroes and villians with some pictures and descriptions

KotFE - Cast of heroes and villians with some pictures and descriptions

 

Draw, but in fairness WoW is just recycling old heroes and villians, so I personally feel like KotFE has the advantage here. Plus it's OOE babay!!! (OOE is of course Outlander Over Everything!)

 

 

Valkorion is Vitiate leading another hidden from the galaxy empire. Be actually fair if you're going to criticize recycling.

 

 

 

And then this list here of super vague things.

 

[Class-specific Order Halls and followers - Companion system perhaps similar, advantage KotFE because know more about the followers (specifically Lana as a companion)

 

Followers aren't like companions and the Order hall is a new feature they've detailed. Advantage WoW for sharing information.

 

All New Dungeons and Raids - we know KotFE has upscaled dungeons and raids and what they're names are and even the bosses within them, Advantage KotFE

 

What the...? Advantage TOR for having not a single new flashpoint or op thus we already know about them? We do in fact know the names of the raids and who the important bosses are in Legion. Advantage both in new content and information to WoW.

 

 

Improved transmogrification system - Improvements have already happened in KotFE and we know cartel shop updates will continue, advantage KotFE (based on more substantive and less nebulous information).

 

So wait, you're going to give TOR an advantage for doing something but call it a draw when WoW has a new feature that TOR doesn't?

 

Character Boost—immediately raise one character to level 100 - KotFE immediately raise one character to 60, also know that future level boosts will be available from cartel shop, advantage KotFE for the future cartel shop knowledge.

 

WoW already has boosts you can buy. And already has a free L90, as you may well know. As with a lot of what you're saying, this is neither a draw nor an advantage.

 

KotFE -Release date October 27th

WoW - no knowledge of specific release date.

 

Advantage KotFE

 

KotFE - Expansion cost, subscription

WoW - No knowledge of costs related to expansion

 

Advantage KotFE

 

KotFE - Pre-launch subscriber rewards program

WoW - no knowledge of pre-launch rewards

 

Advantage KotFE

 

 

KotFE - Third party reviews of in game play and a released directly from game scene

WoW - uh, none of that.

 

Uh, these are all result of Legion being announced a week ago. And they're not particularly relevant to the actual game. I guess you can count them. How good do you feel about doing so, though?

 

And then there's a list of super vague things

 

I won't comment on any of these since they're irrelevant or presumptuous. Except for this one:

 

Revamp of 1-50 leveling process - No knowledge of leveling revamp, advantage KotFE

 

Based on your earlier reasoning this should be WoW advantage since they've already revamped their base leveling zones.

 

What I'm saying is comparing WoW and KotFE is stupid.

 

This is what we found out the day it was announced. Between now and release there's going to be interviews like this one they've already done where we'll find out more information, there's going to be BlizzCon, there's going to be a beta without an NDA. We'll know everything there is to know about the expansion long before it ever comes out.

 

Anyone who's followed WoW development news know this. You have to wrap yourself in crazy knots to deny it.

 

Edit: Don't be confused about this. It's not about the subjective opinion of TOR or WoW being better than the other. It's about the objective fact that WoW shares information far more freely than TOR does.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Senrie

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You never get a second chance at a first impression.

 

So true. But here's the problem.

 

With their near complete silence, our first impressions have been taken out of their hands. Our first impressions are now shaped by the miners, and BioWare has virtually no say in how we interpret the incomplete information the miners give us, since they're not giving us anything to put the miner information into context.

 

You could just not read the miner content and wait like the majority of the gaming community ( not forum community ) who don't know what mining is ... just saying.