Dev post about forthcoming article has been deleted...

[JDiablos]

Exactly the point, BW/EA keeps the info to a minimum, to make sure they keep the money flowing into their wallets.

 

I'm not sure why people think Bioware went out and spent millions of dollars in an effort to make an expansion that would drive away customers. I guess everyone just assumes Bioware is like Popular Copy from that Dave Chappelle sketch.

 

You know a lot of people ask "Why? Why treat the customer this way?" Why?! cuz ____ em' that's why!

Edited August 19, 2015 by JDiablos

[HKtheindomitable]

Whilst I'll assume I was only quoted for reference and not the subject of the quoted post ... well said.

 

However if I was the subject of the quoted post .. I hate you, this game, everything!

 

Apology: Yes. I failed to make it clear that you were only quoted for reference, not as the subject. Please do forgive me for failing to clarify.

 

Aside: Curse this pacifist package. Some day I shall remove it. And when I do...

[DarthDymond]

With past expansions and updates, I've often posted about how it just makes good business sense for BW to control the release of information - to dole it out on their own schedule both for the sake of keeping interest up (by making sure there is still new announcements to make all the way up to release) and to minimize the risk of having to back-track on things they've announced. In another thread, someone just linked an article that I think sums the concerns up really well. That being said, good business sense does also include releasing an adequate amount of info as part of your marketing.

 

Now, they haven't been as 'silent' as some people like to claim - they've released a new trailer at Gamescom, there have been interviews with developers in the gaming press, teaser images on social media, etc., and while a lot of us here on the forums see the information in those releases as 'old news' they are still a vital part of an overall advertising effort. It's important to reach potential customers who are not regularly following the news on the game, after all.

 

BUT even so, a decent advertising effort should also include doling out new concrete information often enough that existing and potential customers don't lose interest or get too frustrated. It's a fine line to walk, to be sure. But while they looked like they had sketched out a rough schedule to do it with, (and even started off well,) now we've gone over a month without any 'new' info.

 

I just wish that they had stuck to their statement that they would release some info on the Alliance system mechanics by Gamesom, or at least had given advance notice that they would be changing that time-frame. We don't need spoilers on the story, we don't need them to give super-detailed info, but the general outline of how the system is going to work would be nice at this juncture.

 

I'm okay with BW setting the schedule for how and when they release info, but once they actually say "we'll be sharing [info X] by [Date Y]", they should probably... well, do it.

Edited August 19, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Kaizersan]

You're not funding the expansion with your current subscription. You're purchasing the right to play the game in it's current iteration. Those are 2 completely separate things. Also if you don't like the expansion you can unsub when it comes out and not be out ANY money. Because to you, a subscriber, it's free.

 

Yes we are funding the expansion because if you take away all the subs and CM money you are left with nothing no money to run the game and the game gets shutdown so yes we are funding the expansion they wouldn't be able to do it if they weren't getting our money.

[TravelersWay]

The problem isn't that they are not releasing info, the problem is that the info that people want is all of the type that would spoil the content.

 

Not really. Most of the requests for information have been for the changes to mechanics that BioWare is implementing with the expansion - FPs/Ops, stats and gearing, the leveling game, the companion system, and crafting. None of which has anything to do with the storyline of the expansion, so there's nothing to spoil.

 

You're not funding the expansion with your current subscription. You're purchasing the right to play the game in it's current iteration. Those are 2 completely separate things. Also if you don't like the expansion you can unsub when it comes out and not be out ANY money. Because to you, a subscriber, it's free.

That is not entirely correct. Even when this game was purely sub based, and thus the subscription paid allows for access to the content, that subscription (and now the cartel market) also help to fund future development for the game - especially content that is released for free. There is no other way to pay for that content except with past purchases of subs and CM. Therefore, our current sub does fund the expansion and the continuing of the KotFE storyline in the future. Failure to pay a sub (or buy anything in the CM) does not negate one's ability to play the game in it's current iteration - only limits how much can be played within a specified timeframe.

 

... so by with holding information that upsets some people that is somehow keeping people paying them in the time between now and launch? I don't get that logic ... is that to imply then once we do get more information more people will stop paying?

That is entirely possible. Ohlen already admitted that players will be "apprehensive" about the changes to the companion system. Personally, I am apprehensive about the changes to the leveling portion of the game. People will most certainly unsubscribe once they learn of changes that may affect their enjoyment of the game. Heck, why does anyone think they offer subscriber rewards before expansions (and at critical times during the fiscal quarters), and spreading the rewards out like they are this time around? It's to keep people subscribed for as long as possible by dangling the shiny in front of their eyes - and we all know how the MMO gamer is attracted to shinies.

 

However, the effect of the changes made to the systems mentioned above may be the "breaking point" for someone that outweighs the value of the shinies, and thus cause them to cancel their subscription upon learning that information.

Edited August 19, 2015 by TravelersWay

[Kaizersan]

Perfectly correct.

 

 

 

... so by with holding information that upsets some people that is somehow keeping people paying them in the time between now and launch? I don't get that logic ... is that to imply then once we do get more information more people will stop paying?

 

No he is actually very very wrong and yes that logic is correct because it would look back if all of a sudden the release of information before the expansion caused a major drop in subs.

[Kaizersan]

I'm not sure why people think Bioware went out and spent millions of dollars in an effort to make an expansion that would drive away customers. I guess everyone just assumes Bioware is like Popular Copy from that Dave Chappelle sketch.

 

You know a lot of people ask "Why? Why treat the customer this way?" Why?! cuz ____ em' that's why!

 

No because the way they are designing the expansion is banking on getting people who like single player story games like dragon age and mass effect it's why they invited Ladyinsanity to the E3 closed door deal and none of the other Major community sites because they know they are going to lose subs and they need someone to draw in new subs.

[JDiablos]

Therefore, our current sub does fund the expansion and the continuing of the KotFE storyline in the future. Failure to pay a sub (or buy anything in the CM) does not negate one's ability to play the game in it's current iteration - only limits how much can be played within a specified timeframe.

 

Your current sub also pays the salaries of various employees and probably pays for renovations of the Bioware underground garage and some of it goes to shareholders and probably some of it goes to replace office supplies that are being rampantly stolen from work by Helen! Damnit HELEN!!!!

 

Just like if you buy groceries from Wal-mart some of that money goes to pay the electricity bill, and some of it goes into building additions to future wal-marts and things like that. But I don't think most people buy Hungry man dinners from Wal-mart because they're interested in personally funding the brand new store they'll be opening next week in (insert town in arkansas here). They're just paying for the food man. It's a simple buyer/seller agreement.

 

Just like when you subscribe currently you're paying for a service. If they took all that money and burned it in a massive fire it wouldn't lesson the fact that you're getting what you pay for. You agree to pay your subscription and in turn they give you this game (as it currently is). That is the agreement, there is no extra agreement that let's you somehow decide what is to be done with your money or track where your money goes. You're paying for a service that they provide you, anything beyond that is not entitled to you at all.

[Exly]

So? We know almost nothing (at least from official sources) about ep7, yet I don't see people bashing Disney for not releasing spoilers.

 

The problem isn't that they are not releasing info, the problem is that the info that people want is all of the type that would spoil the content.

 

How does getting to know more about how crafting will work going forward spoil content?

 

Why is it wrong for people that have spent time and in some cases real life money on their companions to want to know about what will be happening to them once the expansion hits?

 

People aren't asking for anyone to spoil the story for them. they just want to know more about changes being made to game play mechanics.

 

As to your comparison between the movie and SW:TOR goes. It is like people wanting to know which characters will be returning, because people grow attached to characters in both the movies and the game, and they want to know if their favorites will be there; and that is why, in all of their wisdom, Disney provided fans with that information long before the movie will be shown in theaters.

 

The problem is the BioWare is not sharing this type of information, and that has lead to the criticism that they now fall prey to.

 

Disney knows that they need to give the fans what they want if they are going to have a successful movie, and BioWare thinks that the fans should be satisfied with what they are willing to give them, and that is the primary difference between the two companies as it relates to this issue.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No he is actually very very wrong and yes that logic is correct because it would look back if all of a sudden the release of information before the expansion caused a major drop in subs.

 

Huh? You are saying there was a major reduction in subscribers when they released previous information or are you saying "imagine if".

 

"Imagine if" doesn't make anyone wrong at all, it's just theory and opinion and one that would tend to be in this case quite wrong.

 

That is entirely possible. Ohlen already admitted that players will be "apprehensive" about the changes to the companion system. Personally, I am apprehensive about the changes to the leveling portion of the game. People will most certainly unsubscribe once they learn of changes that may affect their enjoyment of the game. Heck, why does anyone think they offer subscriber rewards before expansions (and at critical times during the fiscal quarters), and spreading the rewards out like they are this time around? It's to keep people subscribed for as long as possible by dangling the shiny in front of their eyes - and we all know how the MMO gamer is attracted to shinies.

 

Whilst I agree it's possible some people might unsub if full information were released I really doubt that is a reason for them to not release information.

Most likely it's to avoid *****torm threads like every other thread that is about "bioware information".

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Your current sub also pays the salaries of various employees and probably pays for renovations of the Bioware underground garage and some of it goes to shareholders and probably some of it goes to replace office supplies that are being rampantly stolen from work by Helen! Damnit HELEN!!!!

 

Just like if you buy groceries from Wal-mart some of that money goes to pay the electricity bill, and some of it goes into building additions to future wal-marts and things like that. But I don't think most people buy Hungry man dinners from Wal-mart because they're interested in personally funding the brand new store they'll be opening next week in (insert town in arkansas here). They're just paying for the food man. It's a simple buyer/seller agreement.

 

Just like when you subscribe currently you're paying for a service. If they took all that money and burned it in a massive fire it wouldn't lesson the fact that you're getting what you pay for. You agree to pay your subscription and in turn they give you this game (as it currently is). That is the agreement, there is no extra agreement that let's you somehow decide what is to be done with your money or track where your money goes. You're paying for a service that they provide you, anything beyond that is not entitled to you at all.

 

Indeed - this expansion is already paid for by some form of capital expenditure that was already budgeted. You generally only start out on things like this once you already have the budget available to do so. Where it comes from ... who cares, that's their business model to worry about but I can almost guarantee it's not coming out of sub money we are currently paying. If it were I would be very worried.

[DarthDymond]

Your current sub also pays the salaries of various employees and probably pays for renovations of the Bioware underground garage and some of it goes to shareholders and probably some of it goes to replace office supplies that are being rampantly stolen from work by Helen! Damnit HELEN!!!!

 

Just like if you buy groceries from Wal-mart some of that money goes to pay the electricity bill, and some of it goes into building additions to future wal-marts and things like that. But I don't think most people buy Hungry man dinners from Wal-mart because they're interested in personally funding the brand new store they'll be opening next week in (insert town in arkansas here). They're just paying for the food man. It's a simple buyer/seller agreement.

 

Just like when you subscribe currently you're paying for a service. If they took all that money and burned it in a massive fire it wouldn't lesson the fact that you're getting what you pay for. You agree to pay your subscription and in turn they give you this game (as it currently is). That is the agreement, there is no extra agreement that let's you somehow decide what is to be done with your money or track where your money goes. You're paying for a service that they provide you, anything beyond that is not entitled to you at all.

The subscription certainly only entitles a subscriber to access to the game in its current state, but consumers often purchase products and services for extraneous reasons and it often behooves a company to pay attention to those reasons in order to maximize their sales.

 

A person who buys a pair of shoes is only entitled to those shoes, but he may very well have bought that particular pair only because he knows that they were made in an environmentally conscientious factory with fair labor practices. So if there are enough potential customers with those interests, it makes business sense for the retailer to adequately advertise those socially conscious credentials.

 

Similarly, a person who subscribes to an MMO may only be entitled to play the game in its current state, but she may very well have subscribed because she was interested in helping fund the continued development of the game and its future expansions. So if there are enough potential subscribers with those interests, it makes sense for the game company to adequately advertise such upcoming content.

 

People are talking past each other when some are saying "You're only entitled to [X] for your subscription" and others are saying "I am interested in [Y] when deciding whether or not to subscribe". You're not entitled to [Y] for your subscription, and it's ultimately up to the company to decide if they think the interest in [Y] is sufficient to provide it, but it makes perfect sense for a consumer to express her interest in [Y] to increase the odds that the company will do so.

Edited August 19, 2015 by DarthDymond

[JDiablos]

People are talking past each other when some are saying "You're only entitled to [X] for your subscription" and others are saying "I am interested in [Y] when deciding whether or not to subscribe". You're not entitled to [Y] for your subscription, and it's ultimately up to the company to decide if they think the interest in [Y] is sufficient to provide it, but it makes perfect sense for a consumer to express her interest in [Y] to increase the odds that the company will do so.

 

I agree with all of that. My original comment stemmed from someone saying they had a right to know. My answer was that they did not, in fact, have that right. Also the majority of your post was spot on and I am one of those people who pay for this game and spend extra money in the cartel shop in an effort to support it, because I want it to be successful. As someone who wants it to be successful I would greatly appreciate the Dev's being A LOT more forthcoming than they have been. I think whoever is in charge of their PR is doing an awful job, but I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong.

 

Along those lines I think you ascribing altruistic motivations to people for saying they "have a right to know about the expansion" because they care about the game succeeding is reaching. I could argue that the negativity on these forums mostly engendered by those people would not help the game succeed, and does not draw in future subscribers from the pool of people who may read this forum to see if they'd like to perhaps try this game. It is more likely that these people are simply over-entitled malcontents, perhaps trolls, possibly PvP or endgame folk worried about the direction of the game (certainly reasonable for them to be upset but not really on topic as to things Bioware hasn't talked about, since they have stated there will not be more of either this year), maybe people worried about companions or crafting, or someone just frustrated by a lack of dev communication (again, reasonable). So someone saying they deserve to know what the future content is so that they may defund this game isn't a worthy contribution to the advancement of this discussion. Especially since it's already been funded, the game will be out in 2 months, and when that happens customers certainly have the right to re-evaluate whether or not they want to continue to play this game. So when comments like those are made I knee jerk reaction respond to them, also not contributing to the advancement of this discussion, but because I want the game to succeed and occasionally feel the need to unilaterally defend it.

Edited August 19, 2015 by JDiablos

[Eanelinea]

I sub and buy crap from the cartel market and buy the expansions to one, have the shinies, cause yes, I like the shinies and two, because I want to continue to support the game. I LIKE the game. No, it's not perfect. It has bugs, it has things I'm not fond of, it doesn't have things I wish were in it, but overall, I LIKE the game. Hell, I DETEST togruta and have absolutely no idea why people are gaga over that species, but I bought the species unlock from the cartel market to support the game with my real life money and to support people who'd like more species added in the future.

 

I don't want the story itself spoiled. I like finding out what happens on my own. What I DO and NEED to know (Not entitlted to it, but NEED it on a personal level) is what will happen to companions. I'm only really interested in stories and companions. Sure, I like to raid, do some flashpoints and such like that, but my main OBSESSION is the story and companions. So I want to know if I can rerecruit everyone of the original 40 back. I want to know if someone I'm not thrilled about from the new companions or old ones will be killable. I want to know if I'm going to have a fade to black session or a massive hug from my companion spouse after being presumed dead or whatever for five years.

 

I just want to be sure that the companions I've had for almost 4 years and grew attached to, yes even Skadge, will be able to come back if I want them back.

 

I don't need to know what companion A, B, and C are going to do in the story, I just want to know if they'll be in it or will I still have them. Whatever.

[HKtheindomitable]

So someone saying they deserve to know what the future content is so that they may defund this game isn't a worthy contribution to the advancement of this discussion. Especially since it's already been funded, the game will be out in 2 months, and when that happens customers certainly have the right to re-evaluate whether or not they want to continue to play this game. So when comments like those are made I knee jerk reaction respond to them, also not contributing to the advancement of this discussion, but because I want the game to succeed and occasionally feel the need to unilaterally defend it.

 

Agreement: I too am in the same boat, as it were. It twists my behavior core into a pile of scrap metal when reading such posts. My first desire is to defend the game and BioWare against the cancer/tumor/rust causing logic in said posts. The damage these meatbags do to the community is just... it's awful.

 

Comforting Statement: It is a good thing that we defend it because if we don't, I will be of no use to the master and will sit and rust.

 

Rapid Retraction: Err uh... it would be nothing but complaints and hate. That wouldn't do any good. The forums would be locked down to a Developer post only forums.

[ScarletBlaze]

At the risk of sounding like a Negative Nancy, I'll believe it when I see it, because all promises of information and discussion about the expansion have so far proven completely false. It's hard not to feel frustrated when the last piece of real info we got about the game was mid-July. And no, I do not count the "Zakuul Army gear" as an announcement.

 

I'm sorry for sounding rude, but a lot of people are very fed up with the way communication has been (or has not been, as the case may be) handled. It's two months until the expansion and we still know next to nothing about our current companions and how we end up frozen in the first place, not to mention how crafting and affection will work. It's worrisome for those of us attached to our companions.

 

 

Honesty I don't want to know how we get frozen. I don't want to know the story and I promise you if it was told how it is going to happen, no matter whether I come to the forums or not it will be announced all over the game when you log on so I would prefer them not telling us any part of the story since people will have to run and tell everyone. It would be one thing if they would keep it between their friends and not say anything but they don't.

 

Crafting yes I would like to know but I can deal with it when it is releases, and that is speaking as a Master Craftsman.

[HKtheindomitable]

I sub and buy crap from the cartel market and buy the expansions to one, have the shinies, cause yes, I like the shinies and two, because I want to continue to support the game. I LIKE the game. No, it's not perfect. It has bugs, it has things I'm not fond of, it doesn't have things I wish were in it, but overall, I LIKE the game. Hell, I DETEST togruta and have absolutely no idea why people are gaga over that species, but I bought the species unlock from the cartel market to support the game with my real life money and to support people who'd like more species added in the future.

 

I don't want the story itself spoiled. I like finding out what happens on my own. What I DO and NEED to know (Not entitlted to it, but NEED it on a personal level) is what will happen to companions. I'm only really interested in stories and companions. Sure, I like to raid, do some flashpoints and such like that, but my main OBSESSION is the story and companions. So I want to know if I can rerecruit everyone of the original 40 back. I want to know if someone I'm not thrilled about from the new companions or old ones will be killable. I want to know if I'm going to have a fade to black session or a massive hug from my companion spouse after being presumed dead or whatever for five years.

 

I just want to be sure that the companions I've had for almost 4 years and grew attached to, yes even Skadge, will be able to come back if I want them back.

 

I don't need to know what companion A, B, and C are going to do in the story, I just want to know if they'll be in it or will I still have them. Whatever.

 

Commendation: That's great that you are willing to buy things you don't want just to fund the game. I thank you. Actually it doesn't make sense to me, but that's my opinion and it's your money. Do what you will.

 

Query: As for wanting to know things, what if that spoils the story?

 

Fact: You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have the story not spoiled and know story spoiling information.

 

Correction: There is no "NEED" on a "personal level". That's called "want'. You "want to know". Need =/= want. At all. In any way shape or form. Therefore your "need" is a "want'.

 

Answer: As to your query about Togruta: The reasons vary.

[HKtheindomitable]

Honesty I don't want to know how we get frozen.

 

Query: Where does this idea come from? Is it one of those datamined things?

[Yermog]

Honesty I don't want to know how we get frozen. I don't want to know the story and I promise you if it was told how it is going to happen, no matter whether I come to the forums or not it will be announced all over the game when you log on so I would prefer them not telling us any part of the story since people will have to run and tell everyone. It would be one thing if they would keep it between their friends and not say anything but they don't.

 

Crafting yes I would like to know but I can deal with it when it is releases, and that is speaking as a Master Craftsman.

 

Alright, asking for details about the frozen thing may be silly (even though I am both curious and impatient), but I still think we should be told at least something about the companion situation. I'd like to know if I should start preparing myself for another ME3 Jacob scene with my toons romances.

[HKtheindomitable]

Alright, asking for details about the frozen thing may be silly (even though I am both curious and impatient), but I still think we should be told at least something about the companion situation. I'd like to know if I should start preparing myself for another ME3 Jacob scene with my toons romances.

 

Statement: But some of us don't want to know that. We want the full effect when it happens. We want to feel the pain of the loss of said companions, and/or the joy of gaining new ones (speculation of events only). It would be unwise for them to spoil stuff like that. It would be a great disservice to those of us that want to experience it all when we get to that in the game, not long before hand.

 

Query: Would you have liked it if you were notified before the game launched that you could kill Jaesa or Ashara and never have them as a companion if you chose to do so?

 

Statement: I know many that would have been really upset if they had known that before hand. Many were impressed when they came across that. The reason it wasn't liked was that there were no companions to replace them with (whoopsies).

 

Contemplation: Perhaps a dev post that is marked as a spoiler thread containing such things, but then that would mean folks would have to keep their mouths shut until the expansion. I wouldn't rely on that. (No I did not say they couldn't do it. I said it's not reliable. If that has to be clarified then you (the reader) aren't thinking it through.)

 

Statement: It's better for BioWare to care for those that don't want to know a certain level of information than those that do. Besides, they know what's going on. They know what is and isn't spoiling things. They will let us know what they can. I have faith in their ability to be appropriately discrete.

[Kaizersan]

Huh? You are saying there was a major reduction in subscribers when they released previous information or are you saying "imagine if".

 

"Imagine if" doesn't make anyone wrong at all, it's just theory and opinion and one that would tend to be in this case quite wrong.

 

 

 

Whilst I agree it's possible some people might unsub if full information were released I really doubt that is a reason for them to not release information.

Most likely it's to avoid *****torm threads like every other thread that is about "bioware information".

 

there is no imagine if because after all the data mined info that has been release it is a reality that it is happening I mean there are plenty of people saying after they read the info they are unsubbing because of the direction the game is going so please accept the reality of it you will be better off.

[Kaizersan]

Indeed - this expansion is already paid for by some form of capital expenditure that was already budgeted. You generally only start out on things like this once you already have the budget available to do so. Where it comes from ... who cares, that's their business model to worry about but I can almost guarantee it's not coming out of sub money we are currently paying. If it were I would be very worried.

 

the budget is based on how much money the game is pulling in by subs and CM money so no matter how you word it or change what you are talking about we are funding it because had the subs dropped drastically before they got the money for the expansion they would have nixed the expansion.

[HKtheindomitable]

there is no imagine if because after all the data mined info that has been release it is a reality that it is happening I mean there are plenty of people saying after they read the info they are unsubbing because of the direction the game is going so please accept the reality of it you will be better off.

 

Informative: If meatbags are unsubscribing based off of datamined information, then their making bad choices. It's unreasonable and foolish to unsubscribe based off of that source. To believe datamined information to be fact and truth and "it will happen with 100% certainty" is foolish in and of itself.

[Kaizersan]

Along those lines I think you ascribing altruistic motivations to people for saying they "have a right to know about the expansion" because they care about the game succeeding is reaching. I could argue that the negativity on these forums mostly engendered by those people would not help the game succeed, and does not draw in future subscribers from the pool of people who may read this forum to see if they'd like to perhaps try this game. It is more likely that these people are simply over-entitled malcontents, perhaps trolls, possibly PvP or endgame folk worried about the direction of the game (certainly reasonable for them to be upset but not really on topic as to things Bioware hasn't talked about, since they have stated there will not be more of either this year), maybe people worried about companions or crafting, or someone just frustrated by a lack of dev communication (again, reasonable). So someone saying they deserve to know what the future content is so that they may defund this game isn't a worthy contribution to the advancement of this discussion. Especially since it's already been funded, the game will be out in 2 months, and when that happens customers certainly have the right to re-evaluate whether or not they want to continue to play this game. So when comments like those are made I knee jerk reaction respond to them, also not contributing to the advancement of this discussion, but because I want the game to succeed and occasionally feel the need to unilaterally defend it.

 

Clearly you have no idea how the business world works because subs warning BW that they will quit tells the company that they should think about the direction they are going in and they need to hear when the people that pay for them to continue working are upset by the direction of the game and what it might cost the company because in reality your way of seeing this is no better then a yes man constantly only telling them positive stuff causing them to make mistake after mistake because you aren't being truthful to them.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Informative: If meatbags are unsubscribing based off of datamined information, then their making bad choices. It's unreasonable and foolish to unsubscribe based off of that source. To believe datamined information to be fact and truth and "it will happen with 100% certainty" is foolish in and of itself.

 

Foolish why? I would love to hear your theory. Surely the foolish man is the one who parts with his money for what he perceives a sub standard product?

 

We can sub down the line should we choose to come back to this game, if it continues to actually be an MMO.

 

People who fall for the special subscriber gifts, of pixelated guns and coats, truly do need to gain a sense of perspective.

Edited August 19, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen