Aeristash Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Community manager has promised us information on two occasions. Has gone back on those those promises, without either an acknowledgement or an apology. TBF, if he had acknowledged at least, and apologized(best case scenario), I would agree that backlash ect would be totally uncalled for. I understand that there can be unforeseen delays, but those need to be acknowledged. Don't promise us a constant weekly stream of information, not deliver, and not acknowledge at least that you were incapable of living up to your original expectations. I could see either the apology or acknowledgement being obligational if we were actually paying for the information or pre-ordered the expansion, but all of that is being provided free by bioware as a show of good faith to the fans. As such we really have no ground to push or prod them into doing anything they don't feel necessary. Even if that 'soon' doesn't come until the week before launch, that's their prerogative. One is never entitled to anothers show of good faith. I'm sure eric feels some remorse at not being able to follow up on his word, which is why he continues to give the constant reminders. He could just as easily never say anything at all and let us all stew in this forum until dooms day, but he doesn't. Getting belligerent with the man because he's not moving as fast as one is whipping him just paints the community as immature & makes bioware out to be pc for withholding news. Who really feels self-satisfaction in rewarding unappreciative belligerence? Edited August 19, 2015 by Aeristash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I agree with you, but I also tend to think that this is out of Eric's hands. I think Eric does all he can and I bet it's as frustrating for him as it is to us. I believe EA's reigns on him are far tighter than you may think. I think players tend to skim over this point far to often and wish to "shoot the messenger", when I utterly agree with you that it isn't his fault. Heck, even in the streaming he has to look over and get permission to provide information from the marketing team sat off camera. However, pointing frustrations directly at the marketing team, totally acceptable, as long as it's polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) No, the community manager just said that we will get information soon™ for the umpteenth time instead of giving us actual information. So yes, I do wonder why BioWare refuses to give us actual information instead of just continuously putting it off until a later date. I also wonder if you understand the meaning of the word anymore? I ask because their refusal to speak to us has been going on for quite some time now and is not a recent development. You wonder? I'm thinking it has to do with all the doomsaying, incompetence propaganda and as this thread shows, jumping down their throat & meticulously taking apart every little word they say everytime they say something. Would you want to associate with such company? Takes real gumption to keep coming back for more. The expansion was formally announced 2 months ago and in that 8 weeks we've been introduced to plot characters, comps, received cinematics and learned of new mechanics to come in the xpact. Honestly I'd say that's overly sufficient for the span of eight weeks. I apologize that you're not getting a day by day playback from the devs, but as I've said before, we are in no way, shape or form entitled to anything of the sort. Best to just roll with the punches, forgive & forget and understand that in life, things rarely go as planned. Edited August 19, 2015 by Aeristash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fragnor Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 So in reading trough this post (and I admit I only skimmed the last bit of pages) I have noticed no one asked the 64 million dollar question which would be. The information you are speaking of will it be like the answers that you gave to any meaningful question at gamescon or will it be straight forward this is whats up. I kinda got a little irritated when all of the questions that would stem the tide of malcontent were ducked at gemescon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I agree with you, but I also tend to think that this is out of Eric's hands. I think Eric does all he can and I bet it's as frustrating for him as it is to us. I believe EA's reigns on him are far tighter than you may think. I wish I shared your confidence in -eric, but all to often I hear something like "that's a good question, I'll have to get back to you on that" when he responds to our questions, and then appears to forget about the question and about the part where he will get back to us. To me, this is a sign that he is disconnected from the game, and does not care to know about what is going on himself, let alone care about delivering the information to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) However, the effect of the changes made to the systems mentioned above may be the "breaking point" for someone that outweighs the value of the shinies, and thus cause them to cancel their subscription upon learning that information. That's what I'm worried about. I'm not a hardcore raider by any means, but I fear that they plan to turn this game into something completely different, and that all they need is for us to keep subbing until October when they can get a new audience. The longer they delay, the more positive I am that we won't like what they have to say. I also wonder why Eric has a job. Not because I think he's maliciously holding back info that the marketing department wants him to give us, but because they obviously don't trust him to do it. Seriously, it's got to be maddening to have a job that only lets you regurgitate one word a couple times a month. Edited August 19, 2015 by TheSeventhJedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Perhaps they have not decided everything about how it will be in the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 That's what I'm worried about. I'm not a hardcore raider by any means, but I fear that they plan to turn this game into something completely different, and that all they need is for us to keep subbing until October when they can get a new audience. The longer they delay, the more positive I am that we won't like what they have to say. I also wonder why Eric has a job. Not because I think he's maliciously holding back info that the marketing department wants him to give us, but because they obviously don't trust him to do it. Seriously, it's got to be maddening to have a job that only lets you regurgitate one word a couple times a month. I'm sure he's thankful that his job involves more than just this forum. And, he obviously CAN be trusted, because he does not spill the beans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Perhaps they have not decided everything about how it will be in the expansion. Not even close. The expansion goes live in exactly two months. All the systems are in place. All the story is set. All the models, textures, and mechanics are ready. All they're doing now is debugging and praying the servers don't crash on release day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Not even close. The expansion goes live in exactly two months. All the systems are in place. All the story is set. All the models, textures, and mechanics are ready. All they're doing now is debugging and praying the servers don't crash on release day. Spot on. The fact they refuse to say anything but "Soon" shows they were banking on the Hype Train, and are flummoxed that it ran out of steam before reaching the top of the hill... The worst part is its starting to quickly slide backwards down the hill and all the Bioware conductors are doing is standing around scratching their heads and wondering why chanting "Soon!" Isnt making it start back up the hill... Edited August 19, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Wow how hard is it for you to see that a mode that gives you fast leveling through story line quests that anyone with half a brain was using to speed level alts would generate a spike in people playing story on their metrics. How hard is it for you to understand that the metrics they would have used for KoTFe would be based over 3 years as opposed to a few weeks ( this 12x can't count, KoTFE was well on the way to production by the time we got this one ). How hard is it also for you to understand you don't have any idea what metrics BW used? No one does. Stop assuming you do, you don't and if you do ... prove it. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirx Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Good lord a lot of you people are real cry babies over this "WAHHA they aren't telling us about the next expansion " crap aren't you? How much **** do you people really have on your "plate" so to speak that your passion is filled over slamming a game dev for not sharing as much info as you'd like on an upcoming expansion? TO BE CLEAR: My comments here are NOT targeted at the casual one time people merely expressing "I do think its BS they don't share more info up front".......because that's what I call "normal, rationale" reaction... I'm completely thinking of the people that just keep trying to make a federal case out of the issue and just beating the proverbial horse to death.....you know the types that are trying to vilify BioWare like they are terrible people committing serious crimes or something.... THOSE are the people I'm talking about. Edited August 19, 2015 by Shirx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khiriath Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 where exactly are you getting these numbers. EA didnt have those numbers in their quarterly or yearly earnings reports. please post a link Transcript of EA shareholders conference call. Its also been touted in places like this: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khiriath Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 How hard is it for you to understand that the metrics they would have used for KoTFe would be based over 3 years as opposed to a few weeks ( this 12x can't count, KoTFE was well on the way to production by the time we got this one ). How hard is it also for you to understand you don't have any idea what metrics BW used? No one does. Stop assuming you do, you don't and if you do ... prove it. It's that simple. No, no, no. NO!!! You just don't understand. Its not possible for an expansion that does not cater to my personal niche to be based on things like profits, earnings and nearly 4yrs of analyzing their target audience. Nooooo!!! It has be, simply has to be, based on a very skewed metric that they got during the few weeks fo the 12x XP event. Granted EA has only been talking about this in their stockholder conference calls for the last 18months, and you know, despite their amazing profit margains, and soaring stock prices(up 97% in the last 52 weeks), the company is OBVIOUSLY barely holding on, and so it needs to dupe those rare and few subscribers(that somehow manage to bring in 139million) into continuing to sub as long as possible(or until the movie comes out) so as to get be able to fund this expansion, which is after all based on an obviously skewed metric. [Note: The above was heavily spiced with sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No, no, no. NO!!! You just don't understand. Its not possible for an expansion that does not cater to my personal niche to be based on things like profits, earnings and nearly 4yrs of analyzing their target audience. Nooooo!!! It has be, simply has to be, based on a very skewed metric that they got during the few weeks fo the 12x XP event. Granted EA has only been talking about this in their stockholder conference calls for the last 18months, and you know, despite their amazing profit margains, and soaring stock prices(up 97% in the last 52 weeks), the company is OBVIOUSLY barely holding on, and so it needs to dupe those rare and few subscribers(that somehow manage to bring in 139million) into continuing to sub as long as possible(or until the movie comes out) so as to get be able to fund this expansion, which is after all based on an obviously skewed metric. [Note: The above was heavily spiced with sarcasm] I prefer posts spiced with cardamom and star anise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No, no, no. NO!!! You just don't understand. Its not possible for an expansion that does not cater to my personal niche to be based on things like profits, earnings and nearly 4yrs of analyzing their target audience. Nooooo!!! It has be, simply has to be, based on a very skewed metric that they got during the few weeks fo the 12x XP event. Granted EA has only been talking about this in their stockholder conference calls for the last 18months, and you know, despite their amazing profit margains, and soaring stock prices(up 97% in the last 52 weeks), the company is OBVIOUSLY barely holding on, and so it needs to dupe those rare and few subscribers(that somehow manage to bring in 139million) into continuing to sub as long as possible(or until the movie comes out) so as to get be able to fund this expansion, which is after all based on an obviously skewed metric. [Note: The above was heavily spiced with sarcasm] Actually if you can dig up the poster they did about what people are participating in that's what everything is based on. They don't have other metrics, reports or data - just that poster. It's on every wall of every team in the BW Austin studio with little stick it notes on how they plan to take the game into the future. That is how you run a business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khiriath Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I prefer posts spiced with cardamom and star anise. I'll try to do better in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khiriath Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Actually if you can dig up the poster they did about what people are participating in that's what everything is based on. They don't have other metrics, reports or data - just that poster. It's on every wall of every team in the BW Austin studio with little stick it notes on how they plan to take the game into the future. That is how you run a business! Totally LOL'd on this one. And for the fun of it found the officion metric of BW/EA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 How hard is it for you to understand that the metrics they would have used for KoTFe would be based over 3 years as opposed to a few weeks ( this 12x can't count, KoTFE was well on the way to production by the time we got this one ). How hard is it also for you to understand you don't have any idea what metrics BW used? No one does. Stop assuming you do, you don't and if you do ... prove it. It's that simple. Last thing BW would want to do is release metrics that would prove that the numbers are skewed and if they were right they shouldn't have any problem releasing them but they don't now do they. Personally BW loves people like you and others that just blindly accept the metrics excuse when BW has been dragging everyone along on the better then cross server excuse for well over a year now with not one bit of real information on it except soon tm over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Totally LOL'd on this one. And for the fun of it found the officion metric of BW/EA You mean metrics from almost a year or so that don't list subs or anything important at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Transcript of EA shareholders conference call. Its also been touted in places like this: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html None of those numbers you listed are in that report in fact they don't even say how much the game made just that it is doing better and they talk more about every other game and also list how well all those other games are doing but nothing at all on SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No, no, no. NO!!! You just don't understand. Its not possible for an expansion that does not cater to my personal niche to be based on things like profits, earnings and nearly 4yrs of analyzing their target audience. Nooooo!!! It has be, simply has to be, based on a very skewed metric that they got during the few weeks fo the 12x XP event. Granted EA has only been talking about this in their stockholder conference calls for the last 18months, and you know, despite their amazing profit margains, and soaring stock prices(up 97% in the last 52 weeks), the company is OBVIOUSLY barely holding on, and so it needs to dupe those rare and few subscribers(that somehow manage to bring in 139million) into continuing to sub as long as possible(or until the movie comes out) so as to get be able to fund this expansion, which is after all based on an obviously skewed metric. [Note: The above was heavily spiced with sarcasm] Probably because the game runs on a shoe string budget and EA makes way more money from other titles considering in those conference calls they barely talk about SWTOR not even bringing up any figures on how well it is but if you read everything they sure do talk a lot in detail about all the other games making big money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Transcript of EA shareholders conference call. Its also been touted in places like this: http://www.swtorstrategies.com/2014/10/swtor-revenues-climb-over-100-million-for-2014.html nowhere in that did they give any hard numbers. bw released dragon age:inq and they mentioned that, but nothing about swtor. the other was a swtor press release. they did not raise ea's profits by 15%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 nowhere in that did they give any hard numbers. bw released dragon age:inq and they mentioned that, but nothing about swtor. the other was a swtor press release. they did not raise ea's profits by 15%. Actually they did have a blurb about SWTOR...in which they managed to misspell the name of the expansion in the transcript. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Last thing BW would want to do is release metrics that would prove that the numbers are skewed and if they were right they shouldn't have any problem releasing them but they don't now do they. Personally BW loves people like you and others that just blindly accept the metrics excuse when BW has been dragging everyone along on the better then cross server excuse for well over a year now with not one bit of real information on it except soon tm over and over again. So you've just proven you're basing your entire argument on no metrics at all. GG, debating with you is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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