Star Wars is dogfighting not sniping.

[Caernos]

Once I ended up in a TDM match on shipyards, where the other team rolled out four dreaded T1 GS. Ion and slug shots began flying within a minute of the match and shortly after that, the score was 6 to 17. Seeing that my team was losing it was clear something needed to be done.

 

So I hopped in my blackbolt (this was when I was still flying scouts) and went racing up the side of the map, up high. Then, just before I engaged the gunships, I popped my offensive cooldowns and then hit the line from the flank. The first two gunships exploded before they knew what was happening. The third, tried to turn and engage me with his BLCs but blew up too. The fourth, barrel rolled away into the furball where he was quickly torn apart by the rest of my team.

 

After that a Flashfire jumped on me and blew me up but the damage was done. The gunship line was broken. The four GS pilots tried to reform their line, but the rest of my team began focusing them, flanking and crashing the line. Eventually I think three of the four GS pilots swapped to scouts. It was a moot point. The end score flipped from 6 - 17 to 50 - 26.

 

Now these four were not the best GS pilots out there and they didn't have anyone covering them. But I told this story to emphasize that the gunship line can be broken. Numerous pilots have posted and discussed in game hundreds of dozens of times on the strategies to fight gunships and gunship lines. They are by no means invincible, and in my opinion, gunships are better balanced than the Type 2 scout.

 

Furthermore I would also argue that these are not the easy mode ships some folks claim. I personally have a ridiculously hard time with mechanics of firing a railgun itself. For me, knowing when to charge the railgun and then hold that charge until I have the optimal shot without draining my weapon power is very difficult. I would be much happier if railguns were a point and click weapon with a 6 second cooldown between shots or somesuch. Because I have so much trouble with railguns, I don't even equip them on my GS.

 

To me, other than strike fighters and a few other tweaks, GSF is in a pretty balanced shape right now. And honestly, I'm actually fairly comfortable with strike fighters too. I love to troll people in my quell by cluster spamming them until they've blown their missile breaks and then hitting them with a protorp; it is incredibly satisfying watching a protorp hit with that difficult four second lock and launch, even if the target survives.

 

So my point in this rambling post? I think GSF is in a good place balance wise. I would love to see people stop posting about how certain ship types are overpowered and focus on other issues. GSF needs a lot of things, and in my opinion the biggest thing we need is attention from the Devs; more than just acknowledgement that we exist. I would love to see new game modes, more customizations, more CM ships (and maybe even that fabled fifth ship type), better tutorials, better rewards, etc. So let's stop the never ending circular debate about which ship's are overpowered and instead focus on getting the devs to actually do some work on GSF.

 

And yes, I know that there's not going to really be anything new for anything but the game's story until after KotFE launches but we need to push now if we want them to make us a priority after KotFE launches. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

 

Please note that this post contains my opinions and should not be taken as fact or as representation of any larger party or group. If anyone is insulted, hurt, or otherwise harmed by my post; please let me know so that I may try and edit accordingly. It is never my intent to upset or harm anyone with my words.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to read, have a great weekend.

[xxIncubixx]

The thing is, it's not broken. It might not be the game you want it to be, but that doesn't make it broken. There is a good state of balance between the three viable ship classes. If the devs follow through on their intent to improve strike fighters, like Gavin pointed out a couple posts above this one, that will make GSF even better, give people more choices and make other ship classes less dominant. If, by some miracle, the devs also improve some of the underpowered components, it will further enhance balance and make different builds more viable.

 

You showed up here, spouted off a one-liner incendiary opinion and a loaded question (to which the answer is 'they aren't overpowered') in a climate where recently, nearly every single thread is being crapped up by ill-informed, whiny people calling for the removal of a whole class of ships or making easily debunked claims about how overpowered they are.

 

There have been many substantial discussions here about how to bring the ship classes into even greater balance, but the meta as it exists now is not dominated by any one ship class. In matches of equally skilled veteran pilots, there are at least 3 very competitive scout builds, 2 gunship builds, and 2 or 3 bomber builds. There is strong consensus here (maybe 100% agreement) that we all would love to see several strike fighter builds added to that list, and there is ostensibly some dev effort to make that happen. So with that all in place, you have a deep game with lots of tactical options.

 

If your objection is to getting one-shotted, then whine about the only situation in which it is possible for you to get one-shotted, which is when a gs has Damage Overcharge in TDM. Should DO be toned down to prevent that? Maybe, maybe not. There are risks, especially in a gunship, to acquiring DO. It often leaves you exposed, and when you get it, your name gets put up in big red letters basically telling all enemies 'this is the guy to kill.' Maybe DO should only offer 150% damage boost instead of double, I think there's some discussion to be had there. But claiming that it's a problem with gunships is not the way to go.

 

I don't know the math for sure, but there might be other ship builds that can one-shot with DO. Would a Proton Torpedo do it? What about burst lasers with a TT crit? Lots of builds can melt you before you have a chance to react when DO is involved.

 

Being obliterated by a T2 scout happens just as startlingly as being sniped by a gs. Given the amount of Evasion a T2 scout can put out, you can have no chance to hit them while they blow you away. Does this make them OP? Should we call for them to be removed from the game? Should we turn every single thread into a whine-fest about a particular ship class? Or should we learn techniques to deal with them and go about playing the game that the developers designed?

 

Despon

 

so just because you say it isnt broken that means its not? ... mkay...

[Archonitek]

so just because you say it isnt broken that means its not? ... mkay...

 

When the general consensus from veteran fliers is that it isnt, even those who don't main it, then that should indicate it isnt.

[Danalon]

so just because you say it isnt broken that means its not? ... mkay...

 

The other way around: Just because someone complains about something doesn't mean it's broken.

 

Almost everything we see on this forum about balance is an opinion. We don't have accurate statistics about how every ship performs. However, there are more or less regular complaints about Bombers or Gunships or Scouts being overpowered. Simply the fact that there isn't only one class/ship being complained about shows that there isn't a single class/ship being overpowered. Well, or three out of four classes are actually overpowered, but that evens itself out. Just counter one overpowered thing with another overpowered thing.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Danalon

[Eztro]

The problem with the GS isn't that its overpowered per se, its that it takes almost no skill to play one. Every other ship requires you to actually fly. If you have no idea what to do, jump in a GS, hang in the back and pick people off till a scout that actually knows how to play comes and turns you to paste, then rinse and repeat. Before you know it you will have several kills, several medals and enough ship req to start making some upgrades.

 

If you want to fly, however, and actually dogfight (as per the OP) then the GS nothing more than an annoying distraction. If don't like GS's, get a scout, practice a bit, and then make it your personal goal to punish every GS you can find.

[caederon]

The problem with the GS isn't that its overpowered per se, its that it takes almost no skill to play one. Every other ship requires you to actually fly.

It is so, so tiresome to have this line trotted out again and again. The GS requires you to fly. It requires that you have awareness of the battlefield, the state of the game, the positions of your enemies, the positions of your allies. It requires an understanding of your ship's weaknesses, when to get in and out of a fight. It requires the ability to hit moving targets without locking missiles. It requires the use of three different weapons each with different tactics needed for successful offense. It can be used for close-in fighting (and very often is by skilled pilots) either against attacking scouts or around satellites. It requires just as many skills to fly a gunship well as it does to fly other classes of ship well. If you do not do these things, you will die repeatedly, you will land paltry damage numbers, and your team will not benefit from your presence.

 

Continually denigrating people's skills based on your vendetta against a ship class is stupid, and makes you sound stupid. It invalidates your opinions. Stop dragging down the level of discourse here into pointless mudslinging.

 

Despon

[xxIncubixx]

When the general consensus from veteran fliers is that it isnt, even those who don't main it, then that should indicate it isnt.

 

lol please "veterans" ... this is getting way out of hand here.

 

Do you really think its fun for new players to go inside GSF just to get one shotted by GSs? I know because i did it before many times, and i have seen that over and over again...and then i just stopped using GS altogether because whats the point of it? making new players rage quit? and then have your so called "veterans" (again please), rub each other forever on a dead game mode. (which is already, because of obvious reasons).

 

But sure carry on, pretend its balanced, who cares anyway about GSF bioware doesnt and sure as hell not even 1% of the population cares.

Edited August 22, 2015 by xxIncubixx

[Danalon]

lol please "veterans" ... this is getting way out of hand here.

 

Do you really think its fun for new players to go inside GSF just to get one shotted by GSs? I know because i did it before many times, and i have seen that over and over again...and then i just stopped using GS altogether because whats the point of it? making new players rage quit? and then have your so called "veterans" (again please), rub each other forever on a dead game mode. (which is already, because of obvious reasons).

 

But sure carry on, pretend its balanced, who cares anyway about GSF bioware doesnt and sure as hell not even 1% of the population cares.

 

First: Gunships can only oneshot certain Scout builds with a fully charged critical slug hit. This happens rarely.

 

Obviously it's not fun for new players to get farmed but this has nothing to do with gunships. But by nature, new players don't have much experience and if you want to farm them you can do so in unupgraded ships. Farming new players is not a matter of what ship the farmer uses but about his mentality.

 

Also, ragequitters will always ragequit. In most cases this has nothing to do with the ships in use, but more with the mentality of the ragequitter.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Danalon

[caederon]

Do you really think its fun for new players to go inside GSF just to get one shotted by GSs? I know because i did it before many times, and i have seen that over and over again...and then i just stopped using GS altogether because whats the point of it? making new players rage quit?

So, Drakolich went over the math on one-shotting here. It is a rare circumstance. New pilots are equally powerless and are destroyed almost instantly by many ship classes. Even a half-upgraded quads & pods T2 scout will obliterate an inexperienced pilot in less than 2 seconds. If you want to argue "the new player experience is bad," then argue that, but don't pin it on ship balance. There are other issues at play.

 

and then have your so called "veterans" (again please), rub each other forever on a dead game mode. (which is already, because of obvious reasons).

Lack of dev support hasn't killed GSF, there are still many people playing. With even a little action on the devs part, things could get considerably better. A dead game is one nobody plays, and I don't see 'nobody' playing GSF.

 

So again, in lieu of an actual argument, you insult people. Since when is it a smart idea to dismiss the opinions of people with a great deal of experience on a subject and mock them for having that experience? Since when do people with little or no experience in something have a grasp on the dynamics and overall scope of that thing? The veteran pilots you dismiss have played enough matches to have informed opinions on the state of the game. There is a lot of consensus among those experienced pilots. There is some disagreement. It is possible to have arguments in good faith about a subject on which there is disagreement without resorting to ad hominem idiocy.

 

But sure carry on, pretend its balanced, who cares anyway about GSF bioware doesnt and sure as hell not even 1% of the population cares.

Obviously, the people you're mocking care, or we wouldn't be here trying to better equip new pilots to deal with the challenges they will face when they play GSF. That's something we do, regularly. We write stuff on the forum, we make videos, we offer help and advice in the GSF channel ( /cjoin GSF on your server!) or individually to people so they will have a better handle on how to compete and improve their skills. That's what the veteran pilots you're so dismissive of do.

 

Despon

[JediBoadicea]

So, Drakolich went over the math on one-shotting here. It is a rare circumstance. New pilots are equally powerless and are destroyed almost instantly by many ship classes. Even a half-upgraded quads & pods T2 scout will obliterate an inexperienced pilot in less than 2 seconds. If you want to argue "the new player experience is bad," then argue that, but don't pin it on ship balance. There are other issues at play.

 

Very true. And another thing that is also frequently at play is perception, and how inaccurate it can be.

 

I often fly with personal friends, and though we are frequently in voice chat, we rarely coordinate to any significant degree because we trust each other to go about their business effectively. Voice chat for us is more to crack jokes, and because we were in voice chat anyway to chat between friends before the match started. I mention it only because it has allowed me to see very clearly how often we end up targeting the same ship purely by coincidence ("Whoa, were you shooting that guy too?") - something that is even more likely if you are playing defense, because everyone targeting an incoming ship is just natural.

 

And 9 times out of 10, when a ship just disintegrates in a flash, it's because multiple people hit it almost simultaneously. It just happens to be that the last person to get the shot - in fractions of seconds, as best as the game can record it - gets the credit. When you have multiple gunships playing defense in an area, the likelihood of two players shooting you at the same time goes up even higher, particularly if those gunships are unharassed. And if you're being targeted by both dogfighters and a gunship, a gunship is frequently going to get credit for the last shot, just because the dogfighter has been whittling down shields and health and the gunship will be more likely to have fired last (railgun charge time) and get the kill shot because the previous whittling was done, even if all of that whittling took place in just a second's time. (And we all know how fast-paced GSF is; whittling happens in seconds and fractions of seconds.)

 

These scenarios, all amounting to almost instant death, create the illusion of having been one-shotted. Believe me, I've been on the receiving end of that multiple times, when you're wondering... "*** just happened? What killed me instantaneously!?!? I was at full health!!!" But after a lot of experience watching things carefully from both sides of the event, I know that 90% of the time I did not just get one shotted, but rather got hit by multiple people at the same time.

 

Perception is everything, but perception is often wrong. Just like it may feel like you're being focused in a match, when in fact it's just that you're playing more aggressively and have brought yourself into weapons range more often. Or just like you may feel like you're up against a revenge killer, who in fact is just a tab targeter.

 

Unraveling perceptions to get to the truth of the mechanics usually takes a lot of experience. (i.e., a lot of obsessive flying by an obsessive GSF geek.) As Despon has pointed out, it's generally smart to at least consider the input and observations of those who are more experienced in a craft/profession/sport/game. I can only hope that the wide variety of tips, advice, input and opinions experienced players offer on these forums and elsewhere are helpful to lurkers who read but don't respond, even if others who are steadfast in their dismissal put no stock by them.

Edited August 22, 2015 by JediBoadicea

[xxIncubixx]

So, Drakolich went over the math on one-shotting here. It is a rare circumstance. New pilots are equally powerless and are destroyed almost instantly by many ship classes. Even a half-upgraded quads & pods T2 scout will obliterate an inexperienced pilot in less than 2 seconds. If you want to argue "the new player experience is bad," then argue that, but don't pin it on ship balance. There are other issues at play.

 

 

Lack of dev support hasn't killed GSF, there are still many people playing. With even a little action on the devs part, things could get considerably better. A dead game is one nobody plays, and I don't see 'nobody' playing GSF.

 

So again, in lieu of an actual argument, you insult people. Since when is it a smart idea to dismiss the opinions of people with a great deal of experience on a subject and mock them for having that experience? Since when do people with little or no experience in something have a grasp on the dynamics and overall scope of that thing? The veteran pilots you dismiss have played enough matches to have informed opinions on the state of the game. There is a lot of consensus among those experienced pilots. There is some disagreement. It is possible to have arguments in good faith about a subject on which there is disagreement without resorting to ad hominem idiocy.

 

 

Obviously, the people you're mocking care, or we wouldn't be here trying to better equip new pilots to deal with the challenges they will face when they play GSF. That's something we do, regularly. We write stuff on the forum, we make videos, we offer help and advice in the GSF channel ( /cjoin GSF on your server!) or individually to people so they will have a better handle on how to compete and improve their skills. That's what the veteran pilots you're so dismissive of do.

 

Despon

 

1 shot, 2 shots who cares? its not like an unupgraded or even any other ship (apart from t2 scout, when has cooldowns or another gunship (lol)) has any sort of chance against gunships be them upgraded or not.

 

lol what? maybe on your server its not dead, on TOFN its dead and buried GSF, apart from the ocasional (rare) pop around when daily resets.

 

and please i always like hearing from other players like , "oh but i know what i am talking about im a veteran!", clearly everyone else didnt play jack '''' of GSF and everyone else is garbage, that is just elitism at its finest.

[Laiov]

So, Drakolich went over the math on one-shotting here. It is a rare circumstance.

That post was pretty misleading. Consider that in actual gameplay, dogfighting ships are unlikely to be at full hp if they are engaging the enemy at all. Consider also the effects of overcharge powerups. To better understand what players are talking about when they report being one shot, and when theorycrafting in general, we must pull some data from a model of the gameplay itself rather than merely listing base stats and trying to infer from those what conditions are common.

 

To illustrate this necessity,

is some recent Drakolich footage in which most of the game (TDM) is spent in a T1 gunship. The T1 is flown from 3:02 through 12:16. Within that slice of play, around nine minutes, the gunship destroys 31 ships. Of those, 21 are single shot kills. That is, the gunship lands one shot, which immediately destroys the target. These shots appear to break down as follows:

 

- 0% shield, 3% hull

- 5% shield, 75% hull

- 100% shield, 40% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 5% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 20% shield, 80%hull

- 18% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 60% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 90% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 0% shield, 70% hull

- 100% shield, 8% hull

- 5% shield, 4% hull

- 100% shield, 50% hull

- 0% shield, 95% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 95% shield, 98% hull

 

In red I've designated those kills I suspect will tend to be perceived as a "one shot" by casual players of the game. Looking at the footage in general, I can see the argument that these are "rare" in the respect that a gunship often must fire two or more shots for a reliable kill. However it is also evident that the circumstances are still common enough to occur many times within the span of a single TDM.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Laiov

[JediBoadicea]

1 shot, 2 shots who cares? its not like an unupgraded or even any other ship (apart from t2 scout, when has cooldowns or another gunship (lol)) has any sort of chance against gunships be them upgraded or not.

 

I politely disagree with this perception. I frequently kill gunships is ships other than a T2 scout. Star Guards/Rycers, Pikes/Quells, both T1 and T3 scouts (sabo probe, thermites, pods, all work) -- I've killed gunships in all of these. It's a little more work to do it in those ships as compared to a T2 scout, but it is very doable. I am an experienced pilot, but not some incomparable "ace" (whatever that means; I dislike the term myself). I even get my jollies going gunship hunting in bombers, which works surprisingly well 50-60% of the time only because no one is expecting you to be that dumb and they ignore you until it's too late.

 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning. Do you mean that no other ship can take them down? Or that no other ship can joust them and survive? The first is in my opinion an erroneous statement, and the second is just not a wise gunship hunting tactic.

[Drakkolich]

That post was pretty misleading. Consider that in actual gameplay, dogfighting ships are unlikely to be at full hp if they are engaging the enemy at all. Consider also the effects of overcharge powerups. To better understand what players are talking about when they report being one shot, and when theorycrafting in general, we must pull some data from a model of the gameplay itself rather than merely listing base stats and trying to infer from those what conditions are common.

 

To illustrate this necessity,

is some recent Drakolich footage in which most of the game (TDM) is spent in a T1 gunship. The T1 is flown from 3:02 through 12:16. Within that slice of play, around ten minutes, the gunship destroys 31 ships. Of those, 21 are single shot kills. That is, the gunship lands one shot, which immediately destroys the target. These shots appear to break down as follows:

 

- 0% shield, 3% hull

- 5% shield, 75% hull

- 100% shield, 40% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 5% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 20% shield, 80%hull

- 18% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 60% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 90% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 0% shield, 70% hull

- 100% shield, 8% hull

- 5% shield, 4% hull

- 100% shield, 50% hull

- 0% shield, 95% hull

- 100% shield, 100% hull

- 95% shield, 98% hull

 

In red I've designated those kills I suspect will tend to be perceived as a "one shot" by casual players of the game. Looking at the footage in general, I can see the argument that these are "rare" in the respect that a gunship often must fire two or more shots for a reliable kill. However we can also see that the circumstances are still common enough to occur many times within the span of a single TDM.

 

I went and watched the video you pointed too to see exactly what happened in the "red" time slots you mentioned.

 

Turns out every single One shot you colored in red I had Damage Overcharge for. Not a single One shot was just a normal Railgun crit.

 

 

The thing about Damage Overcharge is it's meant to be ridiculous damage. Hell when GSF was first launched Damage Overcharge was x3 damage not x2. It's one of the main objectives on TDM, without it map control wouldn't matter and the only strategy out there would be to turtle forever and let your enemies come to you.

(Which by the way, I'm pretty sure that after they nerfed Damage Overcharge is when these huge Bomber/Gunship balls started appearing more frequently)

 

Now as far as Damage Overcharge one shots go, there is still ways to prevent it from happening with certain builds on top of the fact that it announces it in bright red letters who got the damn thing. Learning to focus players that got Damage Overcharge or atleast Los/Outrange them is a crucial skill in TDM. Not to mention you can always just get the power up before they do.

 

 

But yes if a player receives the Damage Overcharge power up there are many things in the game that can One shot you. That's why they're so important, it's why I made maps for everyone to see where they spawn.

 

If I didn't explain myself well or missed something let me know.

[Archonitek]

lol please "veterans" ... this is getting way out of hand here.

 

Do you really think its fun for new players to go inside GSF just to get one shotted by GSs? I know because i did it before many times, and i have seen that over and over again...and then i just stopped using GS altogether because whats the point of it? making new players rage quit? and then have your so called "veterans" (again please), rub each other forever on a dead game mode. (which is already, because of obvious reasons).

 

But sure carry on, pretend its balanced, who cares anyway about GSF bioware doesnt and sure as hell not even 1% of the population cares.

 

I dunno why you're putting quotations around the word 'veteran', as if signifying that the people on this thread who are replying are only sticking up for gunships because that's all they know how to fly, rather than the fact they have flown hundreds, even thousands of matches.

 

The problem is the MATCHMAKING SYSTEM! Do you expect rookie pilots, who barely understand how the game functions, to be able to effectively counter how to fight against T2 scouts, bombers and gunships? Hell no. Pitching two shippers against an experienced side is going to be a slaughter no matter what ship is being flown, the only matter is that the gunship is the most effective at securing kills. This leads to the perception that gunships are overpowered when they aren't. Yes, farming a new side with a gunship doesn't sit well with me either, but unless there is a general consensus pre game of 'yeah lets go easy on the rookies and fly strikes' or something similar, this will always happen until Bio ware gets off their *** and does something to make matchmaking fairer.

[Danalon]

The video clearly shows how important DO is and how strong it can be in the right hands. It's not a matter of Gunships in this case. It may be annoying to get killed that fast but I assure you, an ace-quality Scout pilot is no less of a threat if he gets DO.

 

'yeah lets go easy on the rookies and fly strikes' or something similar

 

The skill gap in GSF is too huge. The only thing flying Strikes (or flying low req ships) does is slowing down the good pilots a bit.

The best thing good pilots can do is flying for both factions to even the odds and help new player by guiding them to the GSF chat, so they can ask questions and get answers there.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Danalon

[caederon]

However it is also evident that the circumstances are still common enough to occur many times within the span of a single TDM.

So, in that match you had the following circumstances happen:

1. Gunship was piloted by an expert pilot
   
2. Gunship pilot knew where Damage Overcharge spawns
   
3. Gunship pilot repeatedly got to the DO before faster/more nimble ships because he was paying attention and they weren't.
   
4. Despite a big red message saying Drakolich Has Damage Overcharge appearing in front of them, almost nobody bothers looking to see where he is or tries to do much about it.
   
5. Gunship is left to calmly blast the other side to bits because nobody gets after him.
   

What do you expect to happen? That team put very little consistent pressure on him, and paid for it. Those Damage Overcharges were available to anyone on the board. He was smart enough to know where they spawn and go get them (aside from one he was outraced to by a hair). When his ship was under attack, it was close to death a number of times... but lack of followup or support from the enemy, skillful piloting, and having friendly bomber support from Verain kept him alive.

 

Also note

, when he is in a quads & pod Sting with DO and obliterates an enemy in under one second. Ok, it is not a one-shot. That enemy had no more time to react than if it had been, though.

 

Keep in mind that three of the five maps GSF is played on do not feature Damage Overcharge. If you are in a domination match, it will be an exceedingly rare circumstance that you get one-shot by a gs.

 

Despon

[Eztro]

It is so, so tiresome to have this line trotted out again and again. The GS requires you to fly. It requires that you have awareness of the battlefield, the state of the game, the positions of your enemies, the positions of your allies. It requires an understanding of your ship's weaknesses, when to get in and out of a fight. It requires the ability to hit moving targets without locking missiles. It requires the use of three different weapons each with different tactics needed for successful offense. It can be used for close-in fighting (and very often is by skilled pilots) either against attacking scouts or around satellites. It requires just as many skills to fly a gunship well as it does to fly other classes of ship well. If you do not do these things, you will die repeatedly, you will land paltry damage numbers, and your team will not benefit from your presence.

 

Continually denigrating people's skills based on your vendetta against a ship class is stupid, and makes you sound stupid. It invalidates your opinions. Stop dragging down the level of discourse here into pointless mudslinging.

 

Despon

 

Seems like I struck a nerve. First of all, everything in your post is nonsense. Exactly none of that is true.

 

Second, I have no "vendetta" against GS's, in fact, I use them regularly. Why? I use them when I am in a bad pug and I want to be sure I get some kills. Why would I do that? For the same reason every single other GS driver (including you) does it... 'cause its easy. Nowhere in my post did I "denigrate" anyone skills or sling any mud. I stated a fact. The GS gets hate because it is so ridiculously easy to "fly" (if by fly you mean park and wait for some poor sap to stray into range) and it's all to easy to score kills. For a beginner pilot, no other ship allows you to get right into GSF and feel like you are contributing. Also, if you re-read my post I even recommend you use one to start out on!

[caederon]

Seems like I struck a nerve. First of all, everything in your post is nonsense. Exactly none of that is true.

 

Second, I have no "vendetta" against GS's, in fact, I use them regularly. Why? I use them when I am in a bad pug and I want to be sure I get some kills. Why would I do that? For the same reason every single other GS driver (including you) does it... 'cause its easy. Nowhere in my post did I "denigrate" anyone skills or sling any mud. I stated a fact. The GS gets hate because it is so ridiculously easy to "fly" (if by fly you mean park and wait for some poor sap to stray into range) and it's all to easy to score kills. For a beginner pilot, no other ship allows you to get right into GSF and feel like you are contributing. Also, if you re-read my post I even recommend you use one to start out on!

So, when you say a ship takes no skill to fly, that's in every way a disparaging remark. There's not much room for interpretation, and when you say that in a thread full to overflowing of gunship hate, how else do you expect it to be taken?

 

I don't fly it because it's 'easy.' It is decidedly not easy when you are flying against quality opposition. You're a constant target, and if you sit still, you won't be landing 'easy' kills on anyone, you'll be dead. Constantly. If you're parked in a gunship, you're a sitting duck. If you're waiting for people to stray into range, you're not helping anyone. That's the last way I would advocate anyone fly a gunship, and it's in no way how I fly one. The only time I'm not seeking better firing angles and places to disrupt the enemy is either when I'm charging my railgun or when I'm on the move from dealing with someone who's attacking me.

 

I'm pretty sure the people flying gunship in your 'park & wait' style that I was melting in a quads & pods scout last night also didn't find it especially easy, and perhaps wished they had more skill at getting out of danger.

 

Despon

[Verain]

Good grief. The from the recent erroneous datamining to try to make a point (and coming up with "damage overcharge kills nubs") to the overall tone of "I don't like being sniped", we seem to just have the predictable situation where a player who isn't that experienced in GSF starts complaining about the stuff that the UI doesn't hand you on as shiny of a platter as the stuff that it goes out of its way to let you know about. It's a pretty predictable and repeated argument, and it's a damned shame that you guys have had to waste so much time point by point refuting it.

[Verain]

1 shot, 2 shots who cares? its not like an unupgraded or even any other ship (apart from t2 scout, when has cooldowns or another gunship (lol)) has any sort of chance against gunships be them upgraded or not.

 

This is absolutely untrue. It's kind of odd that you believe this. Plenty of ships have plenty of game against a gunship. And are we talking about ANY gunship, or specifically a type 1 gunship, or specifically a type 3 gunship, or will you change the gunship in question to whichever build you think will prevail in whatever situation is discussed?

 

and please i always like hearing from other players like , "oh but i know what i am talking about im a veteran!", clearly everyone else didnt play jack '''' of GSF and everyone else is garbage, that is just elitism at its finest.

 

Elitism is often correct. You don't have to like it, but if you're saying that nothing can beat a gunship outside of a tuned meta ship with all cooldowns (because the game is some kind of 1v1 festival where you start in open space versus a DO gunship or whatever else), then yea, you need some education from those who are, not just more experienced at the game, but actually superior to you at the game.

[ShallowHal]

To be honest, I am more scared of an approaching Sting/Flash with BLCs than a gunship sitting still 15km away.

 

It has been repeated countless times on these forums, so I'll keep my response a little short.

 

A gunship is dangerous, IF...hear me out...IF it is left alone. As soon as you charge it, he has to bail. When he bails, he can't use his main weapon. You helped your team by occupying a dangerous opponent. And now the kicker: You can do that in a stock Novadive or Blackbolt. You probably won't kill him, but you will prevent him from climbing up the killboard....mission accomplished.

 

If you die, and you will, respawn, find him and chase him again. Make it your personal goal of your matches to chase a gs and survive as long as you can. The more experienced you get, the longer you will survive, the more you will be able to kill him. Promise.

 

Now to the 4 gs scenario: If you are the only scout to chase a gs and you get killed by the other 3 constantly while your team mates are trying to figure out how to retract their landing gear, than this is not a balance issue, this is a case of lack of teamplay and/or lack of experience. And everyone has been down that road, believe me.

 

And finally: If you are flying against 4 scouts with BLCs, you will be dead as fast as if targeted by 4 slugs simultanously.

 

That is coming from someone who rode the "F***-all-GS-nobrain00rz"-Train when he started GSF a year ago. Until I made it my personal goal to focus them down. I still die a lot, but every kill is satisfying and not nearly as impossible to achieve, as a lot of mostly new players want to make everyone believe.

 

Well...not as short as I wanted but maybe it helps to lower your frustration level.

 

 

Crazy

 

Amen. Two things that frustrate me to no end in Deathmatches are teams that don't immediately find the gunships and start harassing them endlessly (whether you're a scout doing it with speed or attacking with your own gunship) and teams that refuse to fight near their own repair drones and minefields, prefer to chase the other team into their swarm of gunships and minefields.

[RickDagles]

Rampart, Condor, Flashfire, Quarrel, Legion, NovaDive, Skybolt, Firehauler, and suicide tensor scout. The game is balanced in those ships. And the game would not be nearly as fun without the dynamic three different types of ships bring to the game. All the top players agree. No one would still be playing this game if it was Battlescout vs Battlescout dogfighting. We should really start ignoring these posts.

 

Fix Strikes, leave everything else balanced.

Edited August 27, 2015 by RickDagles

[sartt]

Nerf Gunships range to 8000 km

[Bolo_Yeung]

Rampart, Condor, Flashfire, Quarrel, Legion, NovaDive, Skybolt, Firehauler, and suicide tensor scout. The game is balanced in those ships. And the game would not be nearly as fun without the dynamic three different types of ships bring to the game. All the top players agree. No one would still be playing this game if it was Battlescout vs Battlescout dogfighting. We should really start ignoring these posts.

 

Fix Strikes, leave everything else balanced.

 

Sigh ... and yet again I will repeat: , how often do tou see a scout swarm (>4 scouts, excluding 2-shippers) ? And how often gunship walls, (combined with bombers using failgun drones on TDM / mine bombers in dom)? So, with all the respect I have for you - you're wrong with 'everything is ballanced' statement.

If you want to say 'often', then let's check the movies

 

The basic problem with T1 GS - ion railgun, applying full scale debuff at minimum charge. Add pretty good evasion to the mix, combined with the best short range weapon - and you have 'the most OP ship'

T3 is a different thing - won't work well for dedicated sniper - but can survive pretty long in dogfight - and if the enemy breaks off, he's getting a rail right into his behind. Yes, it isn;t ballanced too. However it is pretty dfunny to fly as a double missile ship

 

PS. And Tensor scout is not a suicide one - much better run and cap a node; rep drone with ammo - and everyone loves you (especially pod scouts), fast reaction capability... it is really good team suppport even in late phase.