I'm Getting Tired of the Bads

[Iryel]

not everyone has the situational awareness as you have... some are just focussed on the fight itself and don't notice the rest. Can they get it, sure with practice and advice. But can you blaim them for not knowing when advice is advice nowadays when the chat is spammed with all the curses you can find and then add a few. A simple comment ment as advice is then derailing already. And sorry to say, but a tank in dps line asking to go soresu is kinda meh... I understand that guard is handy for healers, but you're gimping the dps(tank) badly and it's not in the intended playstyle (I mean, there's a dps line he choose from...). Does that make his respond valid? not at all, but I can see both sides kinda having a point.

 

Personally I feel there's more to do on the communication side of things and sorry to say, but a rant on the forums won't help and make ppl more acceptive to advice (acception is the key here so they'll try new things for example read chat while fighting or simply look around ;P). Same as "forcing" ppl to play a role (sages must heal, tanks must go soresu etc). Thats adding fuel to the frustrations of losing already against the fotm-classes and intens QQ-ing in chat.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Iryel

[jauvtus]

Oh and I forgot to mention the feeling when after rushing from node to node, focusing on objectives I end up with higher damage than my braindead medalfarmers. It does feel a little satisfying but I also ponder: how is it possible? *** were they doing? Edited August 15, 2015 by jauvtus

[Kaedusz]

snip

 

Don't know if i have too much apathy or you are just new to this but all of this is a blurr to me. I don't care anymore.

Call inc a few times then defend till death and then proceed from there. Seen it too many times to count to be impressed by anything anymore. Teams full of ''bads'' in wz after wz after wz even more so.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Kaedusz

[foxmob]

And that's the attitude that makes players just go in and do whatever makes them "enjoy" the game. You don't want to roll with "bads" then roll with a kiffing group; problem solved. I mentioned the MVP votes because it is extrinsic reward that could encourage more players to effectively guard objectives. 90% of the time people vote for the person with the highest Damage or heal.

 

The attitude in PvP really stinks, and its coming from players like you who think that you are the bantha poo of PVP, and jumping on players who you think are "bads" . There will always be bads in regs (and even ranked) that is why you still get rewards even when you loose.

 

I had to block some idiot, yesterday, because he went off, the deep end, on someone in our group, whom he thought was wearing PvE stuff. The guy changed over to PvP gear and the idiot was still at it, talking bout, not even fully aug, tsk, tsk. Then he was telling the guy to uninstall.

 

Furthernore, I am not "Butthurt" about not getting MVP vote or what-not. It was a point of reference to illustrate that node guarding is not taken seriously because players usually regard DPS/HPS numbers as more effective contribution to the team. A way to dispel that misrepresentation is to extrinsically reward the players who take up that task.

where did I say anything that endorsed raging on bad players? I'm pretty sure my suggestion that you LEAVE if you don't like it is exactly the opposite. if ppl act selfishly and ignore objectives and you happen to actually care about them, then why on earth would you stay in the WZ and feed your anger over their selfish behavior?

 

regarding MVP votes, nothing you say here has an impact on my point: if an MVP vote is something that influences what a person does in a meaningless reg WZ, then that person is a flaming idiot and is actually more "questionable" than the herd of players who "stampede to mid."

 

I actually had some sorc/sage whisper me after a Vstar the other day where I died maybe once, "2.2 mil healing and not a single vote. you're on my list. no heals for you." I laughed. irl. a true L. O. L. moment. I didn't care to reply because anyone who would let an MVP vote in a random WZ influence how he plays is, frankly, a fekking moron and cannot be reasoned with.

 

I'll say it again for the cheap seats: if getting or not getting an MVP vote affects a person's behavior in a WZ, then that person is a flaming imbecile, and his psychological state is more questionable than the lemmings running mid or trying to run orbs during a heated battle for mid (or when both sides are capped). at least the lemming acts out of ignorance or (in the case of the baddies who get capped) lack of skill. but the guy who would let an MVP vote affect what he does? lmao. ok george. have fun with that.

Edited August 15, 2015 by foxmob

[Tiffanitte]

Same cries I hear from other MMOs. Always gonna be a bigger population of players who simply don't give a crap, and will go around just killing. They seems to be their joy. If they be 'paying' customers, they have that right. I always did objectives, healed someone in need, protected one I saw struggling, guarded, all that. Sometimes, I watch those so called baddies, and I feel kinda jealous, cause they look like they are having so much fun, and I am 'working' to win.

 

One way to resolve your baddie aversion, is to always, always que as 4 grouped premade. If you are complaining about WZs and you are que'n solo, then that's your own fault, you are to blame. The world doesn't revolve around your needs.

 

Keep in mind, we are all simply customers, no one is better then anyone else. As customers, everyone has the right to play as they see fit, because it's their money not yours.

 

WORK AROUND THE PROBLEM or just quit.

[Khryn]

Had a glorious little whisper from a person in a WZ last nighit. I wish I had taken a screenshot.

 

Voidstar. I notice some people without 2018. I *politely* tell them about how to bolster properly.

Response: "Idc." No problem.

Voidstar ends, I have 550k Damage, 650k Prot, and 9000 Objective Score.

I get a whisper "Hey PvP head, I did more damage than you. Loser." By 50k. No prot, ZERO

objective score.

 

"I had more pressing things to do than death match away from the doors."

 

..."I still beat you in damage, bad."... <Ciri is now ignoring you>

[Banderal]

Keep in mind, we are all simply customers, no one is better then anyone else. As customers, everyone has the right to play as they see fit, because it's their money not yours.

 

In some sense I think this is not true. The idea that "well, I want to fight other players, not node guard, and BW doesn't give me any other way to fight other players (ignore ranked for the moment), so it's Ok for me to sign up for a WZ and then just fight other players because I paid my subscription"... well, in my mind that's kind of analogous to "I want to play poker, but the only games they have here with cards is gin, so I'm going to sign up for those, but then when I get in a game I'm going to play poker. And it's Ok, because I paid my entry fee." I suspect you'd get kicked out pretty quick if you tried something like that "in real life".

 

Bioware offers up 8v8 objective warzones. If you get in one, it's with 7 other people who should reasonably be able to expect you to play the game you signed up to play.

 

But, of course, the reality is that's never going to happen, so I think this, quoted below, is probably the best answer to the issue.

 

WORK AROUND THE PROBLEM or just quit.

 

I'd add in, "find a way to not let it bother you", but that's just me.

[Banderal]

Had a glorious little whisper from a person in a WZ last nighit. I wish I had taken a screenshot.

 

Voidstar. I notice some people without 2018. I *politely* tell them about how to bolster properly.

Response: "Idc." No problem.

Voidstar ends, I have 550k Damage, 650k Prot, and 9000 Objective Score.

I get a whisper "Hey PvP head, I did more damage than you. Loser." By 50k. No prot, ZERO

objective score.

 

"I had more pressing things to do than death match away from the doors."

 

..."I still beat you in damage, bad."... <Ciri is now ignoring you>

 

How in the world can you have ZERO objective points in a VOIDSTAR? You can practically get "defending an objective" points just from the time you spend running out of spawn, past the doors, and on to your death at their spawn - rinse repeat.

 

Also, 650K prot. I assume you are a tank then. So he was bragging about barely doing more damage than a tank did? hahaha. Thanks for the laugh. That made my day.

[sithBracer]

Seriously, how does a pylon get capped when there are 4 defenders there? How?

 

How does the door in voidstar get capped in front of 5 defenders while I am defending the other side with the other 2 on my team against 5 of the enemy?

 

I ask these questions and the response.... "I was fighting!" Well perhaps you could fight the person capping.

 

I know there have always been bads, but it is becoming the norm to have warzones full of them instead of the random bad warzone. I just don't get it.

 

Go into an arena with a jugg tank....he is in shi cho form. I politely ask him if he notices that he is in the wrong stance and that he should put on soresu form. No response. So, I ask him again just in case he didn't hear. "Please put on soresu form and guard our healer." No response. Lose the match. Ask him again to put on tank stance and finally get a response..."I'm a dps tank! Shut up!"

 

I call incs when I see an enemy rounding the corner from mid to snow. I see that all 7 of my teammates are at grass. Okay maybe there is a big fight over there. Wait...there are 3 more enemies rounding the corner from mid. Still plenty of time for one of the speedier toons to come help. "4 inc snow...come quick" No respone. I see an enemy stealth by me and get lucky and sleep dart him. "5 snow....help." Enemy sorc makes it to the node and starts capping. Sleep dart the sorc. "5 Snow" Others come and start spam capping the node, while I spam sleep dart on them and roll around. Of course I'm forced out. Throw grenade at them and kite around the node. Get choked by a jugg. "Snow help now" Exit combat. Enemies start spam capping again...."HELP SNOW" I am forced out of stealth again and end up getting killed. What happens next....you guessed it. "***....no incs!" "Learn to guard noob" "How the hell did you lose snow?"

 

Of course I reply by saying "look at the chat....I called like 10 times. There was plenty of time to get help." The reply..."Well we were preventing a sin and op from taking grass."

 

I can handle idiots in the occasional warzone. I can handle a single idiot in lots of warzones....you know the stealth guard that doesn't call incs, etc. But when match after match after match is full of brain dead players it gets really tiring. All of those examples happened in a 1.5 hour time period today....and that past couple weeks it has been that story.

 

It really isn't that hard to do simple team play. Attack the person with a target over there head. Call incs...no a stun doesn't actually make you unable to type. Look at your map every once in a while. Look at the node to see if people are capping it. Put on the correct stance and guard someone if you are queued as tank. Throw out taunts as dps sorcs, juggs, and pts. Responds to incs. None of these things are "SUPER ELITE SPECIAL TACTICS OF SWTOR ALL-STARS" They are basic things. If you are new...then take advice from people. If they are rude...ask them to be nicer about it, but still take the advice. Read your tooltips. How are these things hard?

 

/end rant

 

 

TL;DR Long rant about bad teammates.

 

You're on shadowlands now, aren't you.

Edited August 15, 2015 by sithBracer

[Saikochoro]

Seriously, that's a question you should ask not us but rather

 

- the makers of the MatchMaker

- those who decide to farm bads by not entering Ranked

- those who are too good for playing against Newbies - but do so, because Newvbies are so much easier to farm.

 

The question you ask actually has TWO sides :

 

- Those "bads" who are NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT put against other "bads" OF THEIR SAME LEVEL AND SKILL

 

- Those "goods" who are SO MUCH SUPERIOR BUT are matched against Newbies who barely have learned the finesse of PvP 1

 

 

For far too well coordinated (voice chat !) groups and players with - for examnple - top 100 Ranking , it's far too easy to farm Newbies - THEY HAVE LEARNED EVERY FINESSE !

 

And THEn, these OverGods just jump into an - let's say - level 20 character and farm everything - in a group, of course !

 

It's like the number 1 team of Basketball getting into a match against Teenagers - and the worst thing is that some of them actually like this way of farming !

 

Years later, they will say : "But it was fun destroying their PvP, wasn't it ?" And they will giggle over how they made other people's lives miserable. Because they loved it.

 

 

it takes ZERO skill to see a door being planted. None whatsoever. Even when I was new to the game and saw an enemy capping I thought to myself, "Hmm I should probably shoot him." It has nothing to do with premades, ranked players, pugs, unskilled players. You can be the worst DPS in history and still shoot someone capping the node. All it takes is the smallest bit of situational awareness....basically all you have to do is look at your screen and hit a keybind (or even click for that matter) that attacks the enemy planting. Even the absolute worst pugs against the best ranked 4's team should still be able to get an attack off to stop a cap. Premades/pugs might be more of an issue when talking about damage and healing and overall skill with the class, but you don't need voice chat to stop someone from capping.

 

The things that get me are the things that even the sorcerer with 198 cunning gear could do. Everyone can call incs. Everyone can read chat and respond to incs. Everyone can see someone capping at shoot them. If you get sap capped by a skilled stealth when you are alone...that is still pretty bad, but it is somewhat understandable if you are new.....but when there are 4 defenders....there is no excuse. NONE.

[Saikochoro]

You're on shadowlands now, aren't you.

 

No, I switched to harbinger since the stupid server transfers killed bastion basically. But it was getting pretty bad on bastion before I left too.

[Saikochoro]

my fav are the bads who make some very glaring announcements in chat in pvp...in general not in group or ops but in general..

 

so 1) you under 2018 now either regs or ranked i drop, i figure you dont care or you are a idiot, either way im screwed if i stay on that team

 

2)we get capped and i see no inc i drop

3)triple capped i drop

 

you get the point my patience is done at lvl 60 there are few excuses anymore for bad play so since you dont care neither do i im playing for my objectives..to win

and if it is clear you cant or wont or try to win i make a decision to fight or flee. sadly as stated earlier fleeing is getting more and more standard.

 

My only real suggestion for resolving the smash monkey scenario..zero reward for losing a match. It might also curtail the win trade scenario.

 

That's another thing. This is all in lvl 60 regs. I don't even do midbies or lowbies anymore and haven't for a while. I can understand idiots in lowbies when its their first toon, but by level 60....come on people.

[Saikochoro]

The only thing I picked up from that entire rant was that sorcs can taunt.

 

xD

 

Happy Saturday!

 

Whoops...lol. I meant sins. Of course sorcs can't taunt. Dps SINS, juggs, and pts can though. Thanks for catching that. I'm gonna fix it so as not to give people the wrong idea. I was in ranting mode when I wrote that and will not be surprised if I made another error.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Saikochoro]

not everyone has the situational awareness as you have... some are just focussed on the fight itself and don't notice the rest. Can they get it, sure with practice and advice. But can you blaim them for not knowing when advice is advice nowadays when the chat is spammed with all the curses you can find and then add a few. A simple comment ment as advice is then derailing already. And sorry to say, but a tank in dps line asking to go soresu is kinda meh... I understand that guard is handy for healers, but you're gimping the dps(tank) badly and it's not in the intended playstyle (I mean, there's a dps line he choose from...). Does that make his respond valid? not at all, but I can see both sides kinda having a point.

 

Personally I feel there's more to do on the communication side of things and sorry to say, but a rant on the forums won't help and make ppl more acceptive to advice (acception is the key here so they'll try new things for example read chat while fighting or simply look around ;P). Same as "forcing" ppl to play a role (sages must heal, tanks must go soresu etc). Thats adding fuel to the frustrations of losing already against the fotm-classes and intens QQ-ing in chat.

 

No he was in immortal spec, but in shi choo form. An immortal tank in shii choo form isn't helping anyone. A veng jugg in soresu is better cause they can at least guard and do decent dps. If he wanted to be a "dps tank" then he should have put on high power/strength gear as immortal in SORESU form, not be in pve tank gear with shi choo form on. Sins and pts can also be a "DPS tank" in their tank stance. I was not asking a dps jugg to be in tank stance. I was asking a jugg tank to be in tank stance.

 

I am forcing nobody into roles, but if you queue up as a healer...i expect you to heal. If you queue up as a tank (not just a juggernaut....but an Immortal spec juggernaut), then I expect you to tank. If you queue up as dps, then I expect you to do damage. All three of those roles can call incs, respond to incs, stop caps, find out how bolster works, and take polite advice. I have never once raged at these people in the game. Yes, I made a rage post, but it for the problem in general. In the game I actually whisper them helpful advice in a very polite manner and end up getting insulted and put on ignore. That so called "DPS tank" was the first to die both rounds and did a total of like 5k damage.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Saikochoro]

How in the world can you have ZERO objective points in a VOIDSTAR? You can practically get "defending an objective" points just from the time you spend running out of spawn, past the doors, and on to your death at their spawn - rinse repeat.

 

Also, 650K prot. I assume you are a tank then. So he was bragging about barely doing more damage than a tank did? hahaha. Thanks for the laugh. That made my day.

 

You can get zero objectives as a defender going over to the attack spawn and trying to 1v1 noobs as a trash operative. I've seen that too. Most of the time they get their butt handed to them, and then they just wait around in stealth over there until they see the merc that has no cooldowns respawn.

[Saikochoro]

Don't know if i have too much apathy or you are just new to this but all of this is a blurr to me. I don't care anymore.

Call inc a few times then defend till death and then proceed from there. Seen it too many times to count to be impressed by anything anymore. Teams full of ''bads'' in wz after wz after wz even more so.

 

I've been playing pvp since the beginning. I have seen all of this before....it's just SO COMMON now that it made me boil over last night. It just been getting steadily worse since launch.

[sithBracer]

That's another thing. This is all in lvl 60 regs. I don't even do midbies or lowbies anymore and haven't for a while. I can understand idiots in lowbies when its their first toon, but by level 60....come on people.

 

Midbies on harbinger are actually pretty even and most people have situational awareness there. 60's seem to be bad everywhere currently (except maybe TRE) probably due to many players getting the leveling boost and not learning how to play.

Edited August 15, 2015 by sithBracer

[Saikochoro]

Same cries I hear from other MMOs. Always gonna be a bigger population of players who simply don't give a crap, and will go around just killing. They seems to be their joy. If they be 'paying' customers, they have that right. I always did objectives, healed someone in need, protected one I saw struggling, guarded, all that. Sometimes, I watch those so called baddies, and I feel kinda jealous, cause they look like they are having so much fun, and I am 'working' to win.

 

One way to resolve your baddie aversion, is to always, always que as 4 grouped premade. If you are complaining about WZs and you are que'n solo, then that's your own fault, you are to blame. The world doesn't revolve around your needs.

 

Keep in mind, we are all simply customers, no one is better then anyone else. As customers, everyone has the right to play as they see fit, because it's their money not yours.

 

WORK AROUND THE PROBLEM or just quit.

 

This sounds like the same argument people used to defend trolls in ranked. "I pay my sub so I should be able to queue for ranked without an advanced class, in pve gear, and just sit in one spot trash talking in ops chat." No, that is not how it works. I don't say those things because they are MY NEEDS. They are what pvp needs and the community needs in general. People who actually care about how the game is supposed to be played. People who give and take advice freely. People who read tooltips. People that play the very basic principles of objectives. Even in death match arenas there are things people should do. I'm sure pvpers in general would be happier if people actually tried to learn. i get even more frustrated when I see the same person doing the same stupid things over and over and over. Day after day. Month after month. They obviously don't want to learn. But hey....they are "paying customers" so they should be able to troll all the other paying customers too right? Give me a break

[Saikochoro]

Midbies on harbinger are actually pretty even and most people have situational awareness there. 60's seem to be bad everywhere currently (except maybe TRE) probably due to many players getting the leveling boost and not learning how to play.

 

Are you on harbinger too? I can't remember. If so, we should team up some time. Show me your moves on your sin.

[Saikochoro]

Had a glorious little whisper from a person in a WZ last nighit. I wish I had taken a screenshot.

 

Voidstar. I notice some people without 2018. I *politely* tell them about how to bolster properly.

Response: "Idc." No problem.

Voidstar ends, I have 550k Damage, 650k Prot, and 9000 Objective Score.

I get a whisper "Hey PvP head, I did more damage than you. Loser." By 50k. No prot, ZERO

objective score.

 

"I had more pressing things to do than death match away from the doors."

 

..."I still beat you in damage, bad."... <Ciri is now ignoring you>

 

Prime example. Thank you.

[sithBracer]

Are you on harbinger too? I can't remember. If so, we should team up some time. Show me your moves on your sin.

 

I stopped playing that garbage class a while ago. I have a sorc, a sage, a scoundrel and raising an operative on harbinger. My sin and shadow are on shadowlands.

[Saikochoro]

I stopped playing that garbage class a while ago. I have a sorc, a sage, a scoundrel and raising an operative on harbinger. My sin and shadow are on shadowlands.

 

If you have any 60's I was actually thinking about getting on harbinger now. We could go a few rounds on the class of your choice. I will send you a PM with my marauder's name....I play him mostly now.

[masterceil]

WZs are getting extremely frustrating...

 

Every time I join NC, ACW, or HG, I ask who's guarding our node as soon as I get in there. You know, so such things can be established before a match and to know that someone will be playin' the D. At least four times out of five, I'll get no response (always MVP votes to anyone that does volunteer, btw, even if they did zero damage and just sat there the whole game).

 

"Come on guys, don't make the Seer do it." Still no response. "Sigh. Don't blame me if I die quickly." And off to the node I go.

 

Now, I can stay alive through one decent DPSer, maybe a couple of bad ones. I'm quick to call inc - as soon as they round the corner or start coming down the hill, or the moment they hit me with a Sleep Dart. Occasionally help even shows up in time. A lot of times - too many times - I get stuck in a 4v1, hold my ground for 20 seconds or so, calling inc 3-4x and upgrading the number every time another redname pops up. Then I die, and of course "*** no calls?"

 

Sigh. At least I got my usual eight Defender medals.

 

Another great example is in Voidstar. I made a point of stating very clearly before our Defender round that we need to stay on the doors! I said it three times, in three different ways. I'd've said it in three different languages if I knew that many. Guess what happened?

 

That's right - me and one other person (who got my MVP vote) actually bothered to stay on the door. All six of the others sprinted for the Attacker spawn! Predictably, five attackers made it through our merry band, cut down me and my buddy (a Seer and a gunslinger) with a quickness, and planted the bomb. At least there was no ****-talking in Ops chat - they knew they'd ****ed up.

 

This is all in Lv60 warzones, where, as mentioned, people really ought to know better. They're just really, really bad...

[Icykill_]

I hate how people even fail at listening, like when someone marks the healer to kill first and no one but yourself is attacking the healer....then you call it out and still nothing. It's not rocket science, people wonder why people rage in pvp, it's cause the amount of stupidity (sorry but it's the truth) that happens is just mind blowing

 

How about when they remove marks from the other teams healers to put on your healers or tanks... Or to put on a DPS giving them too much grief... These are obviously pve people...

Easy solution, talk before the match starts... Hardly any experienced pvpers need to talk to each other before a match... But there are so many pve people now who don't know tactics or even the basics... It's up to us to try and help them by communicating before the match... It's also a good way to work out who those people are that will have a bad attitude, even other pvp players... If you get stuff U comments or people giving grief... Just leave before the match... Let the bads play by themselves... They will always be bad because of their attitude and this will never change... Just put them on your bad list and refuse to play with them...I

My absolute pet hate is the people who are from pvp guilds who aren't gear right and they should know better... ie, when you see them in the highest pve gear, with 800-900 expertise... and when you politely enquire about it or suggest they get 162 gear till they get pvp gear... They say stuff U or I don't need it... Then they death match and lose you the match... I saw a Commando from a well know pvp guild last night in Hypergates, geared in highend pve gear, 800 expertise, contiunue to run to their node, solo, every time he respawned, which was about every 30secs to die quickly... He refused to listen to anyone telling him to stop... Told everyone stuff U when asked about his gear... he asked what my problem was... Sure near the end of the match I was so angry at him that I may have raged ... I don't know if he was trolling the match for his friends in the imp team or not... But if he wasn't, he made his pvp guild look foolish... Each match I saw him in after I left... Later I switched factions to play with my imp guildies... Saw him in lots of matches still doing the same stupid thing... Hadn't listened about his gear... When our team realised he was geared wrong every match, they went out of their way for an easy kill...

At the end of the day it's attitude... The bads have a bad one

 

Edit: if I see someone cap and run off... I asked them to return... I give them 30-60secs... If they don't return and I can't get there or it compromises my role in the match to go... I leave... I tell the team why I'm leaving too... If I communicate before a match saying I am going somewhere because it's a strategically sound tactic and I ask if someone can guard and I get told to do it... I leave... if I ask and no one says anything I pray that someone will... If I see they've all run in to death match instead... I leave... This is even more frustrating if it's a premade pvp guild who is on chat... When my guild runs a premade one of us nearly always guards and we communicate at the start to let the team know... It's just not worth playing with bads who won't listen... But if I'm going to leave I try to do it at the start

Edited August 16, 2015 by Icykill_

[Saikochoro]

I do leave matches with teams that are beyond redemption. I know I have argued against rage quitting penalties whenever those threads pop up, but I still don't like leaving. It is annoying to have to load in and load out and load in and load out. Wait a couple minutes before queuing so you don't get automatically queued for the same match just to get put in it again.

 

I am perfectly fine with unskilled players. I have zero problem with them. They will eventually learn and get better. Its that bads I can't stand, but I also hate leaving matches. It has just made the whole pvp experience pretty frustrating the last couple months.