For those who criticize Bioware for focusing on story/solo play......

[JamieKirby]

I play swtor for the story and from experience in this game, grouping + story = bad combo, because all I get are constant ************ for me to skip it and to be honest, its gotten to the point, where I just don't bother grouping while levelling up behind the once per day for the commendations.

 

From what I have read about this new expansion is that the levelling process is fully solo friendly and with added solo modes for key flashpoints and ops that need it is awesome, it doesn't kill endgame grouping at all, I have seen players grouping up for the solo quests and that cool and everything, but I don't see the point in it, but that's just my opinion.

[Majestic_Jazz]

I play swtor for the story and from experience in this game, grouping + story = bad combo, because all I get are constant ************ for me to skip it and to be honest, its gotten to the point, where I just don't bother grouping while levelling up behind the once per day for the commendations.

 

From what I have read about this new expansion is that the levelling process is fully solo friendly and with added solo modes for key flashpoints and ops that need it is awesome, it doesn't kill endgame grouping at all, I have seen players grouping up for the solo quests and that cool and everything, but I don't see the point in it, but that's just my opinion.

 

Good insight.

 

Again, yes, KotFE is solo focused but nowhere did Bioware ever say that there will NEVER EVER be anymore group based updates. The only thing they said was that KotFE wasn't going to have any new group based content but that is only for KotFE. I bet in 2016 there will be an update or two that purely focuses on Warzones, GSF, OPS, or all three.

[Khevar]

Another point as far as "metrics" are concerned.

 

In the last 12 years, the "Space Sim" has been the least popular genre. Developers abandoned it like rats on a sinking ship. And throughout this time, publishers have been unwilling to spend money on it.

 

The Chris Roberts comes along and with merely the PROMISE of a game (which may end up being crap), people have given him almost 90 million dollars. GIVEN, not invested.

 

This tells me that there was a big market for this genre. But the "metrics" said to leave it alone.

[Jeweledleah]

I am one of those people who "only play story" and I plan on staying around for the long haul as long as Bioware continues to update the stories. They could be either chapters or solo-style flashpoints like Forged Alliance/SoR/Ziost. Do I need updates every month? No, because in between updates, I will still have a total of 4 characters to go back and replay various stories and make different decisions ALL WHILE also jumping into Warzones and a few OPS from time to time.

 

So again, this idea that players like me will just get bored and leave will crazy. People will and can get bored no matter what. If KotFE was OPS focused, whos to say that the raiders might not get bored and move onto something else? If KotFE was Warzone focused, whos to say that PvPers won't get bored and move on?

 

Again, to me this all just seems like an attack on solo-players and somehow believing that we aren't legitimate consumers who can carry this game.

 

Finally, when did Bioware every state that there will be no more new OPS? When did Bioware ever state that there will never be no new Warzones? Last I heard, they just said that in KotFE, there will be no new OPS or Warzones, but whos to say that in 2016, the major updates will not be centered around Warzones or OPS? Again, more hyperbole that solo-play is somehow going to take over and ruin this game.

 

players get bored. that's a fact. that is WHY you cannot bet on a small subgroup of players as your main source of income, something I've been trying to say in multiple posts already but you keep ignoring becasue YOU think I'm attacking your preferred mode of play.

 

and they never said never. but they also didn't say when and if. most of us are not willing to bet our money on maybe in a future.

 

focusing on solo play ALONE for too long will eventually ruin this game. by not making it profitable enough to renew a very expensive star wars license. if it were one of bioware original properties? that would be a different story, but this is not only a licensed IP its one of the most expensive licensed IP's on a market.

 

and if you had read my posts instead of seeing only what you wish to see, you would have seen that I DO play for story. I DO want more stories. and i LIKE it that they are making solo versions of flashpoints etc. becasue the more people get to see them, the more likely bioware to create more of them

 

what I'm writing AGAINST is creating no NEW group content in a forseeable future. all we have is maybies. imagine if you were told that there will be new stories sometime in a future that bioware is not abandoning the stories, but at the moment - you should be happy with the stories you already have. i don't see you being happy about that. maybies are nothing. maybies are worth nothing. hope is an empty thing without something tangible to support that hope. and the only things that we know is that 1. there will be no new ops before 2016 at the least, leaving those of us who do run ops with the same two that can be finished in a single evening for over a year now. there will be no new pvp maps. we don't know the flashpoint situation, but as of right now, we haven't had any new ones since release of SoR and the two flashpoints we got then. making content that's been in game since launch playable at 60 is nice and all, but that's not NEW content. its old content dropping new gear. and making it scale, removes opportunity from smaller groups of friends running through that content for fun, decorations etc, becasue now they have to be in 8 man group to do it all over again.

 

in order for the game to be financialy profitable enough to afford to keep renewing that expensive IP license? it HAS to offer variety to the players, because MMO market is already saturated and they WILL move on, along with their wallets to something else.

 

TLDR.

 

in order for you to keep getting more stories - we need more subscribers/paying customers in general and that means creating VARIETY of content including variety of GROUP content, not just single player stories.

[Jeweledleah]

I play swtor for the story and from experience in this game, grouping + story = bad combo, because all I get are constant ************ for me to skip it and to be honest, its gotten to the point, where I just don't bother grouping while levelling up behind the once per day for the commendations.

 

From what I have read about this new expansion is that the levelling process is fully solo friendly and with added solo modes for key flashpoints and ops that need it is awesome, it doesn't kill endgame grouping at all, I have seen players grouping up for the solo quests and that cool and everything, but I don't see the point in it, but that's just my opinion.

 

not having group content - kills group content. solo modes are awesome. solo modes will allow people to see the story in peace, pick the answers they want in cutscenes, especially when it comes to light and dark side choices. that is GREAT.

 

the problem with this expansion is that while before you could technically group for even solo content in original vanilla game(which I have done, becasue it CAN be pretty fun, especially when you roleplay a team and play complimentary classes/stories instead of both playing the same one) - ever since SoR, you are actively discouraged from grouping because all quests put everyone but the leader into spectator mode. so you have to either split up for every phased section, or do it several times over. and from interviews, that's how KoTFE will work as well.

 

and... we are getting no new group content. not until, maybe sometime in 2016 which is what... half a year away? that is a LONG time to wait, especially since there's very little new group content in SoR to begin with.

 

I think making solo modes for more flashpoints is the right move. but again. focusing on solo story ONLY (which is what they are doing in expansion other then adding GSIsus to existing flashpoints, which actualy is ALSO focus on solo play) and leaving new group content at "maybe, sometime in a future" is a bad BAD choice. not communicating is a bad BAD choice.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[FerkWork]

The martyrdom is strong with this OP. I love it when you ignore the story people and others who object to this direction and think only the "evil" Pvpers and Raiders are out to get Swtor. Keep posting OP it's giving me a good chuckle.

[Majestic_Jazz]

The martyrdom is strong with this OP. I love it when you ignore the story people and others who object to this direction and think only the "evil" Pvpers and Raiders are out to get Swtor. Keep posting OP it's giving me a good chuckle.

 

"Direction"? It is just one expansion for crying out loud. People make it seem as if ALL expansions and updates from now on will be story focused and ignore PvP and OPS.

[Dokar]

"Direction"? It is just one expansion for crying out loud. People make it seem as if ALL expansions and updates from now on will be story focused and ignore PvP and OPS.

 

 

KOTFE is an expansion and 7 monthly content updates, 9 chapters in October and 7 more starting in 2016

Edited August 17, 2015 by Dokar

[FerkWork]

"Direction"? It is just one expansion for crying out loud. People make it seem as if ALL expansions and updates from now on will be story focused and ignore PvP and OPS.

 

You missed my point in your rant. Must be quite breezy on a cross that high up.

I know story people who are objecting to the one size Bland ME style with even less unique identity. Others as it disallows cooperative play and dual story.

 

As for myself, It maybe one expac but going will be almost 2 years before a new Op and how many since a PvP map was released?

As a paying customer I have every right to critique their service. We shall see who changes first. You act like any criticism to this Expac is heretical like some Inquisition ****. That's my biggest gripe as I know all those solo story folks would be Criticizing with as much right as me on the games direction of things were reversed. By the new Ops are out Pugs can farm Revan

But continue to

Edited August 17, 2015 by FerkWork

[Andryah]

KOTFE is an expansion and 7 monthly content updates, 9 chapters in October and 7 more starting in 2016

 

True.. but nowhere did they stat that that is the only content coming in 2016... so give it a rest please.

 

They are not pulling existing group content, and they stated they are level adapting the current OPs, FP, as well as adding additional options for FP (such as scale to level and solo). They also stated that new OPs are coming in 2016.

 

If there martyrs in this thread.. it is those that demand more OPs ASAP.

[D-Jay]

True.. but nowhere did they stat that that is the only content coming in 2016... so give it a rest please.

 

They are not pulling existing group content, and they stated they are level adapting the current OPs, FP, as well as adding additional options for FP (such as scale to level and solo). They also stated that new OPs are coming in 2016.

 

If there martyrs in this thread.. it is those that demand more OPs ASAP.

 

Where did you read that OPs are definitely planned for 2016, I've been looking everywhere and have seen no concrete information committing to this. A link would be great.

[Andryah]

Where did you read that OPs are definitely planned for 2016, I've been looking everywhere and have seen no concrete information committing to this. A link would be great.

 

I forget if it was in a live stream or a Q&A... but what they stated was that they would be working on new OPs once they drop KoTFE.

 

And it appears the main reason for the delay is because they are doing a lot of rework to the way they do OPs in general and are using the revamp of the old OPs to prove it all out. For example.. moving forward.. if they raise a level cap.. the current OPs will scale to that new level moving forward. So.. given the rework they are doing on the current set of OPs to keep them relevant in the long term.. I'm not surprised they defer any new OPs until later. Note: they have not specified the time frame for new OPs... only that they would be working on them after the release KoTFE.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Andryah

[ivanhedgehog]

Good insight.

 

Again, yes, KotFE is solo focused but nowhere did Bioware ever say that there will NEVER EVER be anymore group based updates. The only thing they said was that KotFE wasn't going to have any new group based content but that is only for KotFE. I bet in 2016 there will be an update or two that purely focuses on Warzones, GSF, OPS, or all three.

 

It is entirely possible that there wont be a viable game left when they get around to that. many people might sub for 1 month to get the stories and maybe come back for a month 6 months later to get the rest. absolutely no reason to pay otherwise. most people that leave for a couple of months dont come back.

[StrangeDais]

Bioware often mistakes how players respond to content, for what players wanted out of the game.

 

For example, Bioware tries space combat twice, does a bad job of it and barely supports it both times.

 

Players quickly abandon space combat both times.

 

Bioware assumes this means that players don't want space combat.

 

 

 

Rather small sample there to use as a basis for your conclusion. Perhaps BW simply felt why waste resources on attempting to be all things to all people (raiding, pvp, GSF, story) thereby diluting the product when you can make better use of your resources and specialize.

 

I suspect BW placed space combat on the back burner not because they missed the mark or misinterpreted but simply because in an MMORPG, players chief interest is story.

[Andryah]

Rather small sample there to use as a basis for your conclusion. Perhaps BW simply felt why waste resources on attempting to be all things to all people (raiding, pvp, GSF, story) thereby diluting the product when you can make better use of your resources and specialize.

 

I suspect BW placed space combat on the back burner not because they missed the mark or misinterpreted but simply because in an MMORPG, players chief interest is story.

 

/Agree.

 

I find it hilarious when the armchair designers come out of the woodwork and declare Bioware metrics and analytics to be trash. As if they were looking over Biowares shoulders at the analytics screens while they trash them. When what they are actually doing is discrediting them so that they can replace them with whatever made up uban legend factoids they personally want to use to prosecute their particular desires for game content.

[DNGDangerous]

I know for sure, that I personally am only here for the story. I just came back recently from a long hiatus due to hype for this new expansion.

 

Let me tell you, after I finish the story for the first installment of the new expansion, I am quitting until the last chapter is released. i will shortly re-subscribe and then quit again.

 

I used to love this game whole heartedly, but that quickly faded when lack of new end game content failed to arrive fast enough to satisfy my desires. When hut cartel came out, and I found out that all their developing resources went into making cash shop items, I was terribly crushed.

 

I am back now, with a new mentality- and thats to expect to play small amounts of real content. After I burst through that content, cancel the sub and wait for more to arrive. As long as I do that, I get my monies worth of enjoyment, and keeps everything fresh and new.

 

Right now- I am having a blast, and really excited for the new story. But at the same time, i know it will be a short stay since they are continueing to have a 1-story fits all approach (unlike the original launch).

 

Anyway, as for their metrics- i am not sure if they realize, those metrics are skewed. Their metrics only show the people who still play the game- and that those numbers are much lower then they were three months after launch of the original release. The reason the numbers are lower is probably due to the fact that they didnt continue to release enough content to keep people intersted.

 

I personally am glad the game is in its current state though, because i the game isnt at a state that can keep me addicted for too long. But in short bursts of play time- its exceptionally fun. So every year before the new movies come out- I can get a "wham bam thank you mam" experience!

[Max_Killjoy]

/Agree.

 

I find it hilarious when the armchair designers come out of the woodwork and declare Bioware metrics and analytics to be trash. As if they were looking over Biowares shoulders at the analytics screens while they trash them. When what they are actually doing is discrediting them so that they can replace them with whatever made up uban legend factoids they personally want to use to prosecute their particular desires for game content.

 

When their claimed "metrics and analytics" are so transparently used as CYA on their part, and blatantly interpreted to promote whatever they were going to do anyway in terms of game content, why should anyone pretend that otherwise is the case?

 

No one is pretending to know what Bioware's "metrics and analytics" are -- just pointing out that the claims they're making don't match easily-observable reality for whatever reason. We don't need to see their math to know they ended up with the wrong answer.

 

As noted above, they make a habit of putting out bad or delayed content, not supporting it, and then claiming "no one does X, so no one wanted X." Space PvE. Space PvP/GSF. Long gaps between releases of new or updated group content. Bugged group content. Bugged cutscenes that never get fixed. Bug animations that never get fixed. Etc.

 

Of course people go back and do other things, play alts, do the story content again, etc; not only are some of those people actually interested in those things, even those who'd rather do "traditional MMO" content get board doing the same dailies for months, and waiting around forever trying to find groups or Ops or FPs or Warzones.

 

Oh, and let's not forget the carrot that accompanies that rotten stick -- 12x XP pulling people back to leveling/story content, while the above issues drive them away from other parts of the game.

 

 

 

I'm not criticizing Bioware for putting some focus into story/solo play -- THAT'S WHAT I DO FOR THE MOST PART -- I'm criticizing them for putting out half-finished features, failing to fully support and expand on them, and then claiming the lack of player enthusiasm reflects "what the players want". IMO, am MMO needs all sorts of content to really thrive long-term, because it needs a broad and varied playerbase and resulting broad motivations to keep playing to keep up the income throughout the ups and down, new competing releases, various content release cycles, etc.

 

AND I'm criticizing them for claiming that they're going to focus on the story/solo content, and then pretending the crap sandwich they're about to serve (see, loss of companions and all effort invested therein, yet more utterly pointless system changes such as the attribute changes, etc) is a platter of caviar.

 

 

Speaking of "metrics", I wonder if they'll keep track of how many people never take any characters, or only one character, through KotFE.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Max_Killjoy

[FerkWork]

I just find it sad that people are going to such lengths to silence any criticisms. No one is demanding content now. People are demanding is BW put there full effort into making sure such enormous delays in content and lack of support for certain gameplay aspects doesn't happen again. Like seriously, you can screw metrics however as pointed out when there is little incentive and support beyond initial release for GSF, Space PvE, OWPvP, PvP, Conquest, FP, Operations, Crafting, Companion Interaction, RP tools, and Planetary Storylines as content.

 

Again, if next Expac is titled Swtor 30 *********** Raids and PvP No Story Scrubs, I'm going to make this same thread and wait for the hypocrisy, cause apparently zero criticism can be tolerated.

Edited August 17, 2015 by FerkWork

[Jeweledleah]

/Agree.

 

I find it hilarious when the armchair designers come out of the woodwork and declare Bioware metrics and analytics to be trash. As if they were looking over Biowares shoulders at the analytics screens while they trash them. When what they are actually doing is discrediting them so that they can replace them with whatever made up uban legend factoids they personally want to use to prosecute their particular desires for game content.

 

I find it hilarious that the person who originally quit the game due to bioware's miscommunication, misleading statements etc etc, way back during gambling machine fiasco. is back to defending them wholeheartedly all over again, as if its a different company or something all of a sudden? what makes you think that they are being perfectly honest and on the level now given that you LEFT because they weren't before?

[mmmbuddah]

You act like if they leave then nobody will come in fill their place. You forget that Star Wars EP7 is coming out in December and SWTOR will get residual interest from casual fans who just want to play an epic SW story/adventure and KotFE will will provide that.

 

So I say again, for those who are sour about the new story focus.....THEN GO BYE BYE. You will be replaced by others who do simply just enjoy great Star Wars stories and could careless about running repetitive raids and dealing with elitist players in groups.

 

People come to SW for the battle of Empire and Republic, light and dark, what we are getting is a bunch of hand holding and no war in star -wars-

[mmmbuddah]

So you can't PVP or do FTPs till 50 or 60? Does it exclude you from doing Ops or Ranked if you haven"t done the story?

 

You cant do ops till 50, you cant do warzone still 10, and you cant do flashpoints till 10 as well, and ranked is not until 60. So that right there is proof that the metrics are ridiculously skewed.

Edited August 17, 2015 by mmmbuddah

[Joesixxpack]

 

Again, you are only against the metrics because they do not justify your opinion..

 

You're describing your own self and probably a lot of other people too. So is the guy you're spewing nonsense at. He's describing exactly why I have 25 characters when there are less than 25 individual class stories for example.

 

You have no clue of what you're talking about but it makes for amusing reading.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[Philmors]

I can easily say I'm one of those who came back to the game and resubbed because of the change in focus to story. I didn't really care for operations at all really and if I wanted to do that, then I'd just go back to WoW.

 

I also got to love that the people whining about the change of focus seem to think that they are going to neglect everything else.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Philmors

[Jeweledleah]

I can easily say I'm one of those who came back to the game and resubbed because of the change in focus to story. I didn't really care for operations at all really and if I wanted to do that, then I'd just go back to WoW.

 

I also got to love that the people whining about the change of focus seem to think that they are going to neglect everything else.

 

1. why go to WoW just for ops when I could have bioware story AND ops in the same game. could anyways. apparently they WANT me to go back to WoW if I want to raid or something?

 

2. they ARE neglecting everything else. they are not adding anything new groupwise until sometime, undetermined when in 2016. aside from some end game content they are apparently working on but keeping mum about - there is nothing new on a group front. SoR was released officially on december 9 2014. it was released with two new flashpoints and two new ops. since then were got one loot pinata of a world boss and one instanced boss in terms of group content. that's it. we know that NIM will no longer be added in a future and given that they are scaling up all the existing ops to 65.. that sounds like actualy removing a difficulty mode from existing content to me. best case scenario (and I'm being extremely optimistic here) we'll get something new in january of 2016. which is over a year of just two "fresh" ops. that is after they promised before, back in a days of DF/DP being latest ops that we won't be going through that much of a long wait for new group content again.

 

pvp is in even worse condition. we haven't gotten any new maps since march of 2014. we got a mild update recently attempting to fix people throwing ranked matches by queuing without pvp gear and cost of gear recalculation. but that's it.

 

galactic starfighter was released, wasn't nearly as much of a success as they had hoped for due to steep barrier to entry and they pretty much abandoned it instead of trying to fix it. with exception of some cartel market paint jobs in packs.

 

and here's the thing about the focus on story change. people are so excited about it, and... we are not even getting SoR style class exclusive quest. its all Makeb style flavor. with hopefully more choices than what we got on Makeb. I guess people are forgetting but.. SoR was also supposed to be a increased focus on a story. and in a way - it was, DA2 and ME3 style side quests aside. and at the same time... people were still unhappy about it in terms of its story quality and content. what exactly makes you think that they are going to do sooooo much better in Fallen empire?

 

we know three things so far. its going to be in chapter format. we are doing a time skip and losing our existing companions (and no idea which of them we'll even be able to get back) and there will be no class exclusive content. wait. 4 things. you cannot group for expac story at all, because while not being class exclusive, it will still utilize those class story mechanics of everyone but whoever goes into the instance first - being the only one able to complete the quest, with everyone else in spectator mode.

 

call me jaded, call me bitter, call me whatever. I don't care. I speak up becasue if I don't? bioware can just chalk it up to their oh so wonderful metrics and only pay attention to existence of alts, while ignoring everything else.

 

P.S. ironically. people stopped running leveling flashpoints becasue KDY was the only thing they could get to pop reliable. and now people are not even running that - not becasue they don't like any of them. but becasue 12x class xp makes it redundant. but of course it must be becasue they don't like group content.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Draqsko]

we know that NIM will no longer be added in a future and given that they are scaling up all the existing ops to 65..

 

But what if NiM Rav and TOS is the new Ops they start working on after the expansion?

 

Note: they have not specified the time frame for new OPs... only that they would be working on them after the release KoTFE.

 

They said they would start working on them after the release of the expansion, but how do they define when the expansion is released, Chapt 1-9 in Oct or Chapt 16 in July? And how much work do you think they'll do if they actually try to start in Oct given all the bug fixes and tuning that will be required with the amount of systems changes they are making in addition to a level cap raise and new abilities?

 

Sorry Andryah, they won't even really start on making a new Operation until after the holiday season. To expect otherwise is foolish, and now you are talking an Operation drought of well over a year.